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The Pandemic of End-Times Dysfunction (E.D.)
The Gary DeMar Show ^ | Nov 12, 2009 | Joel McDurmon

Posted on 02/12/2011 6:20:06 PM PST by topcat54

Joel McDurmon, hosting today's show for Gary DeMar, exposes End-times Dysfunction (E.D.) for what it is. Joel shares with doomsdayers how they can get relief from their paranoia and troubled souls.


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: britishisraelism; endtimes; eschatology; rapture; replacementarian; skinhead
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To: presently no screen name

I believe the next would be in 2015.


601 posted on 02/16/2011 4:48:39 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: Quix
Ugh!! I just shake my head!!

I sure admire your fortitude!!

602 posted on 02/16/2011 4:57:46 PM PST by jackv (The darkness hates the light!)
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To: editor-surveyor

Thanks.


603 posted on 02/16/2011 4:58:35 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: editor-surveyor
I don't know how accurate this is - but did a search and got this..According to William Whiston's footnotes to Josephus, 24 B.C. was a Sabbatical year and 23 B.C. was a Jubilee year. This would mean that A.D. 27 was a Sabbatical year and A.D. 28 was a Jubilee year. If this is true, then Sabbatical years would occur in 2013, 2020 and 2027 A.D., with the next Jubilee year occurring in 2028 A.D.

And Jubliee years would be 2014 and 2021.
604 posted on 02/16/2011 5:09:58 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: jackv

Thanks for your kind words.

Blessed be the Name of The Lord.

We OVERCOME by the Blood of The Lamb . . . and the word of oru testimony.


605 posted on 02/16/2011 5:22:39 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
AMEN!!
606 posted on 02/16/2011 5:41:30 PM PST by jackv (The darkness hates the light!)
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To: presently no screen name

There is a two year error in our calendar.

Christ was born Sept 29, 2 BC by our calendar.


607 posted on 02/16/2011 6:14:11 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: editor-surveyor
So instead of 2013, is more likely 2015?

Christ was born Sept 29,

So was my son and he was conceived on Christmas Day. Didn't know they had the exact September date Jesus was born. Interesting.
608 posted on 02/16/2011 6:23:02 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: jackv; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; ...
More wonderful research from the Dead Sea Scrolls indicating that some of the REPLACEMENTARIAN assumptions about what the Scrolls disclosed and did not disclose . . . those assumptions, on the part of at least some of the REPLACEMENTARIANS, appear to be, at best, grossly flawed--to put it charitably.

from

http://biblocality.com/forums/content.php?168-Many-Verses-Found-in-the-Dead-Sea-Scrolls-Are-Also-in-the-New-Testament

.

Many Verses Found in the Dead Sea Scrolls Are Also in the New Testament Published on 10-18-2010 08:26 PM

If someone had asked a minister in 1947 to prove that the original Hebrew Scriptures from the Old Testament were reliably copied without error throughout the last two thousand years, he might have had some difficulty in providing an answer. The oldest Old Testament manuscript used by the King James translators was dated approximately A.D. 1100. Obviously, that old manuscript from A.D. 1100 was a copy of a copy of a copy, etc. for over two thousand years. How could we be sure that the text in the A.D. 1100 copy of the Scriptures was identical with the original text as given to the writers by God and inspired by Him? However, an extraordinary discovery occurred in the turbulent year before Israel became a nation. A Bedouin Arab found a cave in Qumran near the Dead Sea which ultimately yielded over a thousand priceless manuscripts dating back before A.D. 68, when the Roman legions destroyed the Qumran village during the Jewish war against Rome.

An Arab shepherd boy discovered the greatest archeological finds in history in 1947. When the ancient Hebrew scrolls from these caves were examined by scholars they found that this Qumran site contained a library with hundreds of precious texts of both biblical and secular manuscripts that dated back before the destruction of the Second Temple and the death of Jesus Christ. Once the Bedouins recognized the value of the scrolls they began searching for additional documents in every valley and cave near the Dead Sea. The most incredible discovery was the immense library of biblical manuscripts in Cave Four at Qumran that contained every single book of the Old Testament with the exception of the Book of Esther. Multiple copies of several biblical texts such as Genesis, Deuteronomy and Isaiah were found in Cave Four. Scholars were able to reach back a further two thousand years in time to examine biblical texts that had lain undisturbed in the desert caves during all of the intervening centuries. The scholars discovered that the Hebrew manuscript copies of the most authoritative Hebrew text, Textus Recepticus, used by the King James translators in 1611, were virtually identical to these ancient Dead Sea Scrolls. After carefully comparing the manuscripts they discovered that, aside from a tiny number of spelling variations, not a single word was altered from the original scrolls in the caves from the much copied A.D. 1100 manuscripts used by the Authorized King James Version translators in 1611. How could the Bible have been copied so accurately and faithfully over the many centuries without human error entering into the text? The answer is found in the overwhelming respect and fear of God that motivated Jewish and Christian scholars whose job was to faithfully copy the text of the Bible. In a later chapter dealing with the Hebrew Codes beneath the text of the Bible, I will share how the Masoretic scribes meticulously copied the text of the Scriptures over the centuries.

The Essenes were a Jewish community of ascetics that lived primarily in three communities: Qumran at the Dead Sea, the Essene Quarter of Jerusalem (Mount Zion), and Damascus. They appear to have existed from approximately 200 B.C. until the destruction of their communities in Jerusalem and Qumran by the Roman armies in A.D. 68. During the first century there were three significant Jewish religious communities: the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the Essenes. The Essenes established their religious community near the shores of the Dead Sea. In their love for the Word of God they faithfully copied each Old Testament scroll in their Scriptorium in the village of Qumran. New evidence indicates that these men of God were aware of the new religious leader in Israel known as Jesus of Nazareth and the group of writings about Him known as the New Testament. The Christian historian Eusebius, who wrote around A.D. 300, believed that the Essenes were influenced in their beliefs by Christianity.

When the scrolls were first discovered, many Christian scholars naturally wondered if they might contain evidence about the new faith of Christianity. Despite overwhelming interest, the vast majority of scrolls were not translated for publication in the intervening forty-nine years. For almost fifty years, the hopes of Christian scholars were frustrated by the decision of the small group of original scroll scholars to withhold publication and release of a significant number of these precious scrolls. Some scholars speculated publicly that there might be evidence about Christ in the unpublished scrolls but the original scroll scholars vehemently denied these claims. While some scroll scholars had published part of their assigned texts, after forty-five years the team responsible for the huge number of scrolls discovered in Cave Four had published only twenty percent of the five hundred Dead Sea Scrolls in their possession.

Quotes from the New Testament in the Dead Sea Scrolls

Finally, after a public relations campaign demanded the release of the unpublished scrolls to other scholars, the last of the unpublished scrolls were released to the academic world. To the great joy and surprise of many scholars, the scrolls contain definite references to the New Testament and, most importantly, to Jesus of Nazareth. In the last few years several significant scrolls were released that shed new light on the New Testament and the life of Jesus. One of the most extraordinary of these scrolls released in 1991 actually referred directly to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

The Crucified Messiah Scroll

In 1991 the world was astonished to hear that one of the unpublished scrolls included incredible references to a "Messiah" who suffered crucifixion for the sins of men. The scroll was translated by Dr. Robert Eisenman, Professor of Middle East Religions of California State University. He declared, "The text is of the most far-reaching significance because it shows that whatever group was responsible for these writings was operating in the same general scriptural and Messianic framework of early Christianity." Although the original scroll team still claimed that there was no evidence about early Christianity in the unpublished scrolls, this new scroll totally contradicted their statements. This single scroll is earth-shaking in its importance. As Dr. Norman Golb, Professor of Jewish History at the University of Chicago said, "It shows that contrary to what some of the editors said, there are lots of surprises in the scrolls, and this is one of them."

This remarkable five-line scroll contained fascinating information about the death of the Messiah. It referred to "the Prophet Isaiah" and his Messianic prophecy (Chapter 53) that identified the Messiah as one who will suffer for the sins of his people. This scroll provides an amazing parallel to the New Testament revelation that the Messiah would first suffer death before He would ultimately return to rule the nations. Many scholars believed that the Jews during the first century of our era believed that, when he finally came, the Messiah would rule forever without dying. The exciting discovery of this scroll reveals that the Essene writer of this scroll understood the dual role of the Messiah as Christians did. This scroll identified the Messiah as the "Shoot of Jesse" (King David's father) the "Branch of David," and declared that he was "pierced" and "wounded." The word "pierced" remind us of the Messianic prophecy in Psalms 22:16: "They pierced my hands and feet." The prophet Jeremiah (23:5) said, "I will raise unto David a righteous branch."

The scroll also describes the Messiah as a "leader of the community" who was "put to death." This reference pointing clearly to the historical Jesus of Nazareth is creating shock waves for liberal scholarship that previously assumed that the Gospel account about Jesus was a myth. Jesus is the only one who ever claimed to be the Messiah who was crucified. The genealogies recorded in both Matthew and Luke's Gospels, reveal that Jesus was the only one who could prove by the genealogical records kept in the Temple that He was the lineage of King David as the "Son of Jesse." Since the tragic destruction of the Temple and its records in A.D. 70 it would be impossible for anyone else to ever prove their claim to be the Messiah based on their genealogical descent from King David. Additionally, the scroll identified the Messiah as "the sceptre" which probably refers to the Genesis 49:10 prophecy, "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be." This scroll confirms the historical truthfulness of the New Testament record about Jesus and His crucifixion. The evidence from the scroll suggests that the Jewish Essene writer acknowledged that Jesus of Nazareth was the "suffering Messiah" who died for the sins of His people.

The "Son of God" Scroll

Another fascinating scroll discovered in Cave Four known as 4Q246 refers to the hope of a future Messiah figure. This is another of the scrolls that was unpublished until recently. Amazingly, the text in this scroll refers to the Messiah as "the son of God" and the "son of the Most High." These words are the exact wording recorded in the Gospel of Luke.

The Text of Scroll 4Q246 - the Son of God Scroll:

"He shall be called the son of God,
and they shall designate [call] him son of the Most High.
Like the appearance of comets, so shall be their kingdom.
For brief years they shall reign over the earth and shall trample on all;
one people shall trample on another and
one province on another until the people of God shall rise and all shall rest from the sword."

Compare the words in the scroll 4Q246 text to the inspired words found in Luke 1:32 and 35: "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David... And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:32-35).

Anyone comparing these two first century texts will be startled by the amazing similarity of concept and wording describing the Messianic leader. One of the great differences between Christian and Jewish conceptions of the promised Messiah revolves around His relationship to God. While the Jews believe the Messiah will be a great man, such as Moses, with a Divine mission, the Christians believe that the Bible teaches that the Messiah would be uniquely "the Son of God." The Jewish view usually held that the concept of a "son of God" violated the primary truth of monotheism found in Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." The Christians believed that Jesus' claim to be the Son of God was not a violation of Deuteronomy 6:4. Rather, Christians believe in the Trinity, the doctrine that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are revealed in the Bible to be One God, revealed in three personalities. As Christians, we do not believe in three separate gods. Therefore, Christians understand the statements about Jesus as the Son of God to be in complete conformity to the truth of monotheism - there is only one God. It is fascinating in this regard to consider the presence of these statements in this first century Jewish text: "He shall be called the son of God, and they shall designate [call] him son of the Most High."

The presence of these statements in the Dead Sea Scrolls suggests that some of the Essenes either accepted the Messianic claims of Jesus to be the Son of God or anticipated this concept. Either possibility opens up new areas for exploration. Another possibility that must be considered is this: Is it possible that this scroll 4Q246 is a direct quote from the writer hearing the words of the Gospel of Luke that was now widely circulating according to early Christian witnesses? Luke, the physician, claimed that he wrote the Gospel of Luke as an eyewitness of the events he personally observed. In Luke 1:1-3, he says: "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus."

The discovery of the virtually identical wording "the Son of God" from Luke 1:32 and 35 with the scroll found buried in a cave in A.D. 68 stands as a tremendous witness to the early existence and transmission of the Gospel records within thirty-five years of Christ. If the Gospels were written and distributed within thirty-five years of the events of the life of Jesus (as the Gospels claim) then they stand as the best eyewitness historical records we could ever hope to possess. It would be almost impossible to distribute the Gospel accounts to thousands of people in Israel within three and a half decades of the events unless they were true accounts. If the Gospel records were untrue, many witnesses would have stood up and denied their accuracy. However, the records of the first century reveal that no one denied the facts about the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. In fact, all of these ancient historical records confirm the truth of the Gospels.

Other New Testament Quotes Identified in the Scrolls

In 1971, a Spanish biblical scholar named Jose O'Callaghan studied some of the small fragments of scrolls discovered in Cave Seven at Qumran. He was looking for correspondences between these fragments of Greek scrolls and the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament that was widely used by Jesus and the apostles.

These fragments are quite small containing only small portions of each verse. After almost two thousand years, the elements and insects have significantly damaged these manuscripts. In some cases only small fragments containing parts of a verse on three or four lines remain from an original scroll. It required considerable detective work to determine the precise text in these tiny fragments.

One day he carefully examined several small scroll fragments located in a photo page in The Discoveries of the Judean Desert of Jordan. To his great surprise O'Callaghan noticed that several did not fit any Old Testament text. These fragments were listed as "Fragments not identified." To his amazement Dr. O'Callaghan found that these Greek language fragments bore an uncanny resemblance to several verses in the New Testament. He read the Greek words "beget" and a word that could be "Gennesaret," a word for the Sea of Galilee. The fragment containing "Gennesaret" appears to be a quotation of the passage referring to the feeding of the five thousand found in Mark 6:52,53 which states: "For they considered not the miracle of the loaves: for their heart was hardened. And when they had passed over, they came into the land of Gennesaret, and drew to the shore."

If these texts are actually portions of these Christian writings they would be the earliest New Testament texts ever discovered. The New York Times responded, "If O'Callaghan's theory is accepted, it would prove that at least one of the Gospels, that of St. Mark, was written only a few years after the death of Jesus." The Los Angeles Times headlined, "Nine New Testament fragments dated A.D. 50 to A.D. 100 have been discovered in a Dead Sea Cave." It stated that "if validated, [they] constitute the most sensational biblical trove uncovered in recent times."

Other Scroll Fragments and the New Testament

Dr. Jose O'Callaghan ultimately identified eight different scroll fragments from Cave Seven that appear to be quotes from New Testament passages. The scholarly magazine Bible Review ran a fascinating article on Dr. O'Callaghan, these scrolls, and their possible connection with the New Testament in an article in December, 1995.

The fragments appeared to O'Callaghan to be portions of the following verses from the Gospels and Paul's Epistles:
"For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself. . ." (Mark 4:28).
"And he saw them toiling in rowing; . . ." (Mark 6:48).
"And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar. . ." (Mark 12:17)
"And when they had eaten enough, they lightened the ship. . ." (Acts 27:38).
"And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. . ." (Romans 5:11-12).
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness. . ." (1 Timothy 3:16).
"For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer. . ." (James 1:23-24).

As one example of Dr. O'Callaghan's study, he examined a small scroll fragment known as 7Q5 that contained only twenty Greek letters on five lines of text. Many of the thousands of scroll fragments that were successfully identified from the Qumran site are equally small. Another scroll scholar, Carsten Thiede, agrees with O'Callaghan that portions of the Mark 6:52,53 passage appears in this scroll fragment. While other scroll scholars disagree with the identification of this fragment as a verse from the New Testament they do admit that almost all of the scrolls found in Cave Seven were written in the period between 50 B.C. and A.D. 50, which is consistent with the time of the writing of the Gospel of Mark.

Naturally, as with other matters connected with the controversial Dead Sea Scrolls, many scholars disagreed with the conclusions of Dr. O'Callaghan. The debate still continues twenty years later. At this stage we cannot be certain that O'Callaghan's conclusion is correct. More work needs to be done. However, the recent publication of the discovery of Scroll 4Q246 and its identical reference to "the Son of God" as found in Luke 1:32 and 35 provide strong support for the possibility that these fragments are related to these New Testament passages. In addition, I have great hopes that the new archeological exploration of recently detected caves at Qumran may provide new evidence including New Testament references. Many of these mysteries will be solved when the final four hundred unpublished scrolls are finally published in the next few years. The new dig at Qumran may also uncover additional scrolls that will help us understand more clearly the Messianic beliefs of this group of religious men and women who lived at this desert site during the time when Jesus walked the earth.

When we consider the total amount of evidence that confirms the biblical record about Jesus of Nazareth we can have confidence that we know more about the life and resurrection of Christ than we know about any other person in the ancient world. God has not left us in darkness concerning the truthfulness of the miracles, prophecies and teaching of His Son, Jesus Christ.

http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/article1.htm

609 posted on 02/16/2011 6:46:37 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

Thanks for the ping!


610 posted on 02/16/2011 10:15:10 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Quix
Talk about hubris -- I didn’t realize your rubberized is an attack.
611 posted on 02/17/2011 1:00:16 AM PST by Cronos ("They object to tradition saying that they themselves are wiser than the apostles" - Ire.III.2.2)
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To: topcat54; The Theophilus; Quix
Dispy Pre-Mil Rapture perspective has been around FROM THE EARLY CHURCH.

I guess they mean the perspective was there before Domitian.

What is funny though is that the Rapture concept only was invented in the 1800s by some Scots
612 posted on 02/17/2011 1:29:16 AM PST by Cronos ("They object to tradition saying that they themselves are wiser than the apostles" - Ire.III.2.2)
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To: shield

I’ve always wondered where Q got so many followers... I guess they are just added by him


613 posted on 02/17/2011 1:30:27 AM PST by Cronos ("They object to tradition saying that they themselves are wiser than the apostles" - Ire.III.2.2)
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To: topcat54; The Theophilus; RFEngineer; Rashputin
Backkup helpers,... take .... off...

do you think these are groupies?
614 posted on 02/17/2011 1:34:24 AM PST by Cronos ("They object to tradition saying that they themselves are wiser than the apostles" - Ire.III.2.2)
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To: presently no screen name

He was probably born on the Day of Atonement, there would have been a big event going on as there was no room in the inn.


615 posted on 02/17/2011 1:41:28 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: 1000 silverlings

Right - definitely a feast going on. As we know, He is a God of order and major events happened accordingly. The Jewish feasts and customs are very important for understanding His ways and timing. Not too odd they were taken from us/Christianity around 300. Thank God for the Jews for keeping this info for His Church!


616 posted on 02/17/2011 4:24:59 AM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Cronos; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; ..
Are such Biblicly ignorant perspectives evidence of poor instruction; poor cognitions; poor reading; poor historical awareness or rich stubbornness, cussedness? Shocking.

I Thess 4:
Believers Who Have Died
 13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. NIV

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (The Message)

The Master's Coming
 13-14And regarding the question, friends, that has come up about what happens to those already dead and buried, we don't want you in the dark any longer. First off, you must not carry on over them like people who have nothing to look forward to, as if the grave were the last word. Since Jesus died and broke loose from the grave, God will most certainly bring back to life those who died in Jesus.

 15-18And then this: We can tell you with complete confidence—we have the Master's word on it—that when the Master comes again to get us, those of us who are still alive will not get a jump on the dead and leave them behind. In actual fact, they'll be ahead of us. The Master himself will give the command. Archangel thunder! God's trumpet blast! He'll come down from heaven and the dead in Christ will rise—they'll go first. Then the rest of us who are still alive at the time will be caught up with them into the clouds to meet the Master. Oh, we'll be walking on air! And then there will be one huge family reunion with the Master. So reassure one another with these words.

The Message (MSG)

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (Amplified Bible)

16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud cry of summons, with the shout of an archangel, and with the blast of the trumpet of God. And those who have departed this life in Christ will rise first.

    17Then we, the living ones who remain [on the earth], shall simultaneously be caught up along with [the resurrected dead] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always (through the eternity of the eternities) we shall be with the Lord!

    18Therefore comfort and encourage one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (New Living Translation)

16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died[a] will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (Young's Literal Translation)

 16because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,

 17then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be;

 18so, then, comfort ye one another in these words.


617 posted on 02/17/2011 6:37:14 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: topcat54

Good works are partly the evidence of sanctification, but they are not the same as, as you originally stated.


618 posted on 02/17/2011 6:38:57 AM PST by cinciella
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To: Quix

AMEN!! AMEN!!


619 posted on 02/17/2011 6:55:06 AM PST by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

THANKS FOR YOUR KIND REPLY.


620 posted on 02/17/2011 7:12:04 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
The naysayers cannot deny the Truth - they just don't want it to be true for their belief system would crumble and realize they were caught in the web of deception. So their PRIDE keeps them in it but ONLY for a short time - for It is Written. Some are hell bent to learn the hard way.
621 posted on 02/17/2011 7:21:21 AM PST by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; ..

INDEED TO THE MAX.

[PRAYER REQ AT BOTTOM RE SON IN REHAB]


OFF TOPIC, WORTH A LOOK:

re hassles stress, priorities, wisdom . . .

http://www.etiquettehell.com/?p=2013


And one of our members’s sons is in rehab with dwindling insurance days and she’s not sure he’s ‘getting it.’

REquested prayer for him.


622 posted on 02/17/2011 7:26:07 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: CynicalBear; The Theophilus; RJR_fan; Cronos; Lee N. Field; Dr. Eckleburg
Still waiting for responses to 478, 480, 484, 517.
623 posted on 02/17/2011 8:03:26 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: cinciella
Good works are partly the evidence of sanctification,

What would be other evidence of sanctification?

but they are not the same as, as you originally stated.

I’m sorry if my comment made it seem as if there were identical. The section I provided from the WCF give an accurate description of the relationship.

Good works are a necessary component in our salvation.

624 posted on 02/17/2011 8:07:56 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: editor-surveyor; topcat54
>> I had someone here try and claim that the entire period from rapture to white throne judgment was the “day of the Lord.” <<

. Then ‘someone’ told you right.

That fact is made plain in the Revelation, as a period of 1000 years. Peter also stated that a day is as 1000 years. You lack this understanding so you childishly ridicule those that have been given the understanding by the Holy Spirit. - Go Figure!

So much for the much vaunted "literal interpretation".

Since also "a chiliad is as a day" we could burn through the whole Millennium in an afternoon, eh.

625 posted on 02/17/2011 8:11:01 AM PST by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: topcat54; The Theophilus; RJR_fan; Cronos; Lee N. Field; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix

>> Still waiting for responses to 478, 480, 484, 517.<<

After the vitriolic personal attacks by Theophilus in his post 557 to me which were similar but an additional step down in decency from yours I wouldn’t suggest you hold your breath. You boys can take your play dough interpretation of scripture and discuss it amongst yourselves.


626 posted on 02/17/2011 8:21:53 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

INDEED.


627 posted on 02/17/2011 8:26:07 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Lee N. Field
Since also "a chiliad is as a day" we could burn through the whole Millennium in an afternoon, eh.

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge HIM, and he will make your paths straight".
628 posted on 02/17/2011 8:28:52 AM PST by presently no screen name
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To: CynicalBear

Well said.


629 posted on 02/17/2011 8:33:06 AM PST by presently no screen name
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To: topcat54; CynicalBear
478:
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. (1 Thess. 4)
Which “coming of the Lord” is this? His First or His Second?
480
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4) Christ comes to the earth, at least into the atmosphere
(literally speaking). Where exactly in this passage is the great “About Face” of rapturism performed by Jesus?
TC -- you didn't get any answers at all to these?
630 posted on 02/17/2011 8:40:05 AM PST by Cronos ("They object to tradition saying that they themselves are wiser than the apostles" - Ire.III.2.2)
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To: Lee N. Field

Where do you find literal interpretation violated in my response?


631 posted on 02/17/2011 8:42:07 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: editor-surveyor

The scripture is wildly misapplied and misses the point entirely.


632 posted on 02/17/2011 9:07:25 AM PST by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: Lee N. Field

Well, you’re entitled to an opinion, but no it is precisely applied.

You have to come to understand Paul, and the reasons why the Lord chose Paul, in order to understand scripture from an eschatological standpoint. Paul had in depth knowledge and understanding that none of the other apostles had. Paul and only Paul, knew what Judaism really was about.


633 posted on 02/17/2011 9:15:30 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: CynicalBear; The Theophilus; RJR_fan; Cronos; Lee N. Field; Dr. Eckleburg
After the vitriolic personal attacks by Theophilus in his post 557 to me which were similar but an additional step down in decency from yours I wouldn’t suggest you hold your breath.

You ain’t seen vitriol until you’ve been called an anti-Semite and other names by futurists.

You boys can take your play dough interpretation of scripture and discuss it amongst yourselves.

We’re only using the material offered by futurists. We’re not the ones turning the Bible into play dough. I can understand the need to duck tough questions that your theology can’t quite handle.

634 posted on 02/17/2011 9:34:24 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: editor-surveyor; Lee N. Field
Paul had in depth knowledge and understanding that none of the other apostles had. Paul and only Paul, knew what Judaism really was about.

Paul speaks nothing about these things. You need to apply the mishnah used by futurists to come to these conclusions. It’s part of their Gnosticism.

635 posted on 02/17/2011 9:44:55 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: Lee N. Field; editor-surveyor; presently no screen name
Since also "a chiliad is as a day" we could burn through the whole Millennium in an afternoon, eh.

They just don’t see how their “literal when convenient”/“allegorical otherwise” knife cuts both ways.

636 posted on 02/17/2011 9:51:45 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: 1000 silverlings
More likely it was on Tabernacles, which follows Yom Kippur. Jewish males were to present themselves before the LORD 3 times a year, on Passover, Shavuot (Pentecost), and Tabernacles. We are told in the Scriptures that the Word put on flesh and tabernacled among us. Hence my belief that Jesus came into the world on that day.

As we continue to look at Scripture we see that Jesus was circumcised on the 8th day according to the law of Moses. Tabernacles is an 8 day feast. Tabernacles is also the feast which all families will be required to present themselves before the LORD during His 1000 yeas reign.

637 posted on 02/17/2011 9:54:50 AM PST by JesusBmyGod (Baruch ha'ba B'Shem Yahweh)
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To: topcat54

Allegorical is reserved for replacementeers only.

Less than 5% of God’s word is allegory.

Prophecy that you do not understand is not allegory.

Description of comming events in prophecy, for which the prophet has no way of knowing future terminology, and thus describes in terms of their own era, is not allegory.


638 posted on 02/17/2011 9:57:14 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: Cronos; CynicalBear; editor-surveyor; The Theophilus; RJR_fan; Lee N. Field; Dr. Eckleburg
TC -- you didn't get any answers at all to these?

Ain’t gonna happen. The soft underside of futurism has been exposed. Trying to answer questions for with there are no good answers according to their system will only make it worse, and only prove to be further embarrassment.

After all, they want everyone to think they are winning. They can only do that by clamming up.

639 posted on 02/17/2011 9:57:15 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: editor-surveyor; Cronos; CynicalBear; The Theophilus; RJR_fan; Lee N. Field; Dr. Eckleburg
Allegorical is reserved for replacementeers only.

In your dreams. Every time one of you runs for cover behind 2 Peter 3:8 to get out of a tight spot you are showing your true allegorical colors.

640 posted on 02/17/2011 9:59:42 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: topcat54

We’ll let God decide who is winning, but I doubt that you’ll even be there for the decision...


641 posted on 02/17/2011 9:59:46 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: editor-surveyor
We’ll let God decide who is winning, but I doubt that you’ll even be there for the decision...

We would take you seriously if you have something to back up your bravado.

642 posted on 02/17/2011 10:01:22 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: editor-surveyor
"Paul and only Paul, knew what Judaism really was about."

ROTFLMAO ...

Now, that's exactly what Irenaeus says is the hallmark of a heresy, but, nooooo, nobody here borders on heresy.

Give each other more high fives all around, you've just strayed into the marsh Irenaeus says is heresy.

You better hope there isn't a Rapture, if there is one ya'll will be here looking for verses to explain why so many Catholics and others who don't agree with you vanished.

Christ and Him crucified, not the NYT, dice, and OT feasts.

643 posted on 02/17/2011 10:01:30 AM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: topcat54

2 Peter 3:8 is not allegorical.

Peter is only explaining the domain of the term “day.”

Replacementeers are just bad allegory.


644 posted on 02/17/2011 10:02:02 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: Rashputin

There definitely won’t be many Catholics ‘vanishing.’

http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/media/123/211-232K/


645 posted on 02/17/2011 10:04:27 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: editor-surveyor
Peter is only explaining the domain of the term “day.”

Your explanation of Peter’s meaning is faulty and identifies precisely why you guys often abandon “literalism” and become far more allegorical that your opponents.

646 posted on 02/17/2011 10:06:53 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: editor-surveyor; topcat54
Allegorical is reserved for replacementeers only.

“I don’t know what you mean by ‘glory,’ ” Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. “Of course you don’t—till I tell you. I meant ‘there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!’ ”

“But ‘glory’ doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument’,” Alice objected.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master that’s all.”

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. “They’ve a temper, some of them—particularly verbs, they’re the proudest—adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs—however, I can manage the whole lot! Impenetrability! That’s what I say!”

647 posted on 02/17/2011 10:08:02 AM PST by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: editor-surveyor

Hey, you just party on, dude.

1) No Rapture
2) Were there one heretics wouldn’t qualify
3) You need to check for signs and messages in “True Grit”, that’s another Darby decoder ring.


648 posted on 02/17/2011 10:09:47 AM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: topcat54

Please take me off of any of your ping lists.


649 posted on 02/17/2011 10:16:49 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: JesusBmyGod; Dr. Eckleburg
Possibly thanks. However for Yom Kippur God not only wants men to repent but He supplies the means of repentance, and the notion of "redeemed" is associated with it. The Jewish Day of Atonement is always the same in their calendar but varies on ous, anywhere in the last part of September to October. By the way I was born that day as well, kind of cool
650 posted on 02/17/2011 10:18:16 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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