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The Pandemic of End-Times Dysfunction (E.D.)
The Gary DeMar Show ^ | Nov 12, 2009 | Joel McDurmon

Posted on 02/12/2011 6:20:06 PM PST by topcat54

Joel McDurmon, hosting today's show for Gary DeMar, exposes End-times Dysfunction (E.D.) for what it is. Joel shares with doomsdayers how they can get relief from their paranoia and troubled souls.


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: britishisraelism; endtimes; eschatology; rapture; replacementarian; skinhead
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To: CynicalBear
Please take me off of any of your ping lists.

This is more than once you’ve broken up with me. I’m hurt.

651 posted on 02/17/2011 10:43:55 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: editor-surveyor; topcat54; CynicalBear; The Theophilus; 1000 silverlings; RJR_fan; Lee N. Field; ...
Who does it benefit to believe Christ does not reign today over heaven and earth?

Who does it benefit to believe the Gospel will not prevail in this life?

Who does it benefit if we "Christian soldiers" stop "marching as to war?"

I just don't understand the inherent pessimism of dispensationalism. The earth and everything therein were created for Christ's sheep. We may be thwarted, but we will never be defeated.

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine" -- Exodus 19:5

And what has God's voice told all men to obey for the past 2,000 years?

"Believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light." -- John 12:36


"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" -- John 5:23


652 posted on 02/17/2011 11:23:12 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Rashputin

well the first one did have kim darby in it


653 posted on 02/17/2011 11:26:18 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: DManA; CynicalBear; M. Espinola; topcat54; ShadowAce; jy8z; The Theophilus; Dr. Eckleburg; ...

So, who benefits

(Cui bono?)[1] by preaching as a certainty the global triumph of evil?

Res ipsa loquitur.

The matter speaks for itself. To ask the question is to answer it.

I still wonder why the prophecy pimps, doomsayers, and fortune tellers never see anything good ahead in our generation? What darkness lurks in their hearts, to so blight the bright sunlight of God's providence at work around us today?


[1] Cui bono ("To whose benefit?", literally "as a benefit to whom?", a double dative construction) is a Latin adage that is used either to suggest a hidden motive or to indicate that the party responsible for something may not be who it appears at first to be.
654 posted on 02/17/2011 11:43:30 AM PST by RJR_fan (Lovers and winners shape the future. Losers and whiners TRY TO PREDICT IT.)
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To: RJR_fan

Just to be clear, we all believe Jesus will LITERALLY return to Earth and that day lies in our future. And he will PERSONALLY rule.

No?


655 posted on 02/17/2011 11:54:17 AM PST by DManA
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To: 1000 silverlings
Yup.

Don't be stupid, be a Darby,

Come and join the Rapture Party

656 posted on 02/17/2011 12:06:13 PM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: DManA
Just to be clear, we all believe I do, with joy, anticipate my own physical resurrection at the end of time, when Jesus returns. That's my long-term expectation. Short-term, I look forward to the job God has for me to do. Intermediate, I look forward to influencing grandkids and students. What I do today will make a difference in the 22nd century.
657 posted on 02/17/2011 12:14:14 PM PST by RJR_fan (Lovers and winners shape the future. Losers and whiners TRY TO PREDICT IT.)
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To: RJR_fan

Amen


658 posted on 02/17/2011 12:18:11 PM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: topcat54; Lee N. Field
They just don’t see how their “literal when convenient”/“allegorical otherwise” knife cuts both ways

Satan's butterknife against God's Word? Not hardly...

"For the Word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart".

When will you take this literal...

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned".

659 posted on 02/17/2011 12:19:16 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Lee N. Field; topcat54

Reminiscent of children on hard drugs.

That’s where replacementeers will forever be.

Never offering serious analysis, and going bonkers when serious analysis is presented; discussion with such is a handshake with a pit viper.


660 posted on 02/17/2011 12:24:25 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: RJR_fan
>> I still wonder why the prophecy pimps, doomsayers, and fortune tellers never see anything good ahead in our generation?<<

Only a person who is looking to lay up treasures on earth would say such a thing. To try to use the deceptive practice of projecting an untruth to hopefully self justify unbiblical belief will only end in failure.

Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. To claim those of us who look forward to the time we will be with the Lord is simply false. As for me an my house we will serve the Lord.

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

So you go right ahead RJR. Try to get people to focus on what they will gain in this world but be advised that the true scriptures and word of the one true God say different. Let God be true.

Spread your false doctrine of prosperity on earth if you must but know that those of us who take scripture seriously will trust God for all we need. And we are full of joy for what God has in store. There is not darkness at all Mr. RJR, there is no global triumph of evil outside of God’s will. There is only His willingness to allow those who fall under His wrath to “hang themselves” with false doctrines and unbelief. We serve only one master.

661 posted on 02/17/2011 12:33:48 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: editor-surveyor

Amen and Amen!


662 posted on 02/17/2011 12:36:53 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: topcat54

“What would be other evidence of sanctification?”

Fruit of the Spirit, humble and contrite heart, among others.

Galatians 2:20:”I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.”

Sanctification is an inward work, a dying to self.

I don’t see good works as a “necessary” component in salvation either...but I think they are an important evidence of salvation - not always possible though (i.e. thief on the cross, deathbed conversions).


663 posted on 02/17/2011 12:38:11 PM PST by cinciella
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To: CynicalBear; topcat54; RJR_fan; Cronos; Lee N. Field; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix
After the vitriolic personal attacks by Theophilus in his post 557 to me

I agree with you on #557.

As soon as I posted it, it suddenly occurred to me that the "your madman cult..." would be interpreted as a personal attack. I should have made the parenthetical statement ("No I am not calling you a Nazi"). The intent was to point out that the German leader was a madman, was a cult figure, and was a murderer of Jews - all of those traits that are supposed to be of the alleged antichrist. The imagery was one of a German citizen looking out the window and seeing all of those things. Lets say that we described the president of the US as a madman, Jew hater, and a cult figure - his character is not your character.

It came off wrong. You, and everyone else should be offended.

I apologize and never would consider you a Nazi

664 posted on 02/17/2011 12:38:44 PM PST by The Theophilus
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To: cinciella

Help me out here, is the humble Spirit the laughing jackass picture or is that the contrite heart?


665 posted on 02/17/2011 12:43:38 PM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: The Theophilus

I accept your apology. I will however not debate you in the future given your proclivity for vitriol. I evidently “lead you into anger” and will refrain from that risk in the future.


666 posted on 02/17/2011 12:43:38 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Rashputin; RJR_fan

Important sometimes to step back and touch the fundamentals we all do believe, unequivocally.


667 posted on 02/17/2011 12:46:24 PM PST by DManA
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

>> “Who does it benefit to believe Christ does not reign today over heaven and earth?” <<

.
To observe the current deep decay of humanity today, with pederasty taking center stage, and government schools literally teaching homosexuality as normal, and all forms of sexual immorality as just an acceptable alternative, it takes some powerful drugs to imagine that as Christ’s millenial reign.

.
>> “Who does it benefit to believe the Gospel will not prevail in this life?” <<

.
A straw question really. The gospel has and will continue to prevail among those that are a part of his kingdom, but ultimately his kingdom is not of this Earth. He will return to make his enemies his footstool, but before he does that he will claim his own in the Harpazo that is promised.

.
>> “I just don’t understand the inherent pessimism of dispensationalism.” <<

.
There is no pessimism there to understand; there is acceptance of what is prophecied, and the joy of being where and what he intends us to be.

.
>> “The earth and everything therein were created for Christ’s sheep.” <<

.
Then why has he promised to destroy the universe with fervent heat? - No, he is creating a place for us, and it is not Earth, which will be incinerated.

.
>> “We may be thwarted, but we will never be defeated.” <<

.
I think you mean that Christ will never be defeated? We must be defeated that Christ may shine through us.

Don’t get so anxious that you dismiss his plan for your own.


668 posted on 02/17/2011 12:50:17 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: The Theophilus

CONGRATS.

That’s admirable.

And, an extremely rare phenomenon on Fr.

Thanks.

FWIW, you moved up several notches in my respect.


669 posted on 02/17/2011 12:52:13 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: RJR_fan

However, He is personally ruling now

There is a strain of Christianity that holds Jesus has already returned as much has he every will and that whatever world we can build together is as good as the world will ever get.


670 posted on 02/17/2011 12:52:19 PM PST by DManA
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To: Quix
Second time I've seen that vid. Really pulls at your heartstrings and makes you think of others.

Something I need to do more of.

Prayers up for the young man fighting addiction. He'll need all he can get but when it comes down to it, it will be up to him.

671 posted on 02/17/2011 12:52:47 PM PST by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: CynicalBear

The Palpal number!


672 posted on 02/17/2011 12:57:00 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: Rashputin

“Help me out here, is the humble Spirit the laughing jackass picture or is that the contrite heart?”

If you’re referring to some of the more comical posts that are seen, I’d say that’s responding with honey instead of vinegar. I’m sure that the person that the jackass picture is meant for gets a laugh out of it, but it gets the point across without vitriol. I certainly get a laugh out of it!


673 posted on 02/17/2011 1:02:10 PM PST by cinciella
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To: cinciella

I see, mockery is the highest form of a humble heart and contrite spirit. Thanks for clearing that up and I’m glad you’re entertained.


674 posted on 02/17/2011 1:05:33 PM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: CynicalBear
Only a person who is looking to lay up treasures on earth would say such a thing.

Actually, unlike you, when I say the Lord's Prayer, I actually mean what I say, and ask for things I expect God to do. Such as -- progressively bring all things under the benign jurisdiction of the King. My God, unlike yours, is already at work today to manifest his Kingdom in every sphere of life -- and those who have eyes to see, and faith to believe, can see one thing after another conscripted into the King's service.

My God is at work, and invites us to work with Him. Your God apparently only wants folks to fill the bleachers, pop open a few cold ones, and wait for the fireworks to begin.

What earthly treasure could begin to compare with the joy of seeing God answer my prayer day by day -- "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven?" Sorry your God is out of the picture for now -- mine is quite busy.
675 posted on 02/17/2011 1:23:29 PM PST by RJR_fan (Lovers and winners shape the future. Losers and whiners TRY TO PREDICT IT.)
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To: Rashputin; Quix; topcat54

I guess I don’t see it the same way. I think it’s “poking fun”, not mockery. There’s no leering, no scoffing, no ridicule involved. I think it’s one poster’s way of responding to an adversarial post in a gentle, funny way. I also laugh at some of topcat54’s cartoons - I really like the one with the couple waiting for the rapture and the man asks, “Do I have time for a cup of coffee?” It’s funny!!

If you want to see real mockery, I could post a few lines I’ve seen...


676 posted on 02/17/2011 1:26:39 PM PST by cinciella
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To: DManA
There is a strain of Christianity that holds Jesus has already returned as much has he every will and that whatever world we can build together is as good as the world will ever get.

You are on the money, here. A writer who did much good for glory of God, David Chilton, fell into that kind of heresy after a massive heart attack. I believe the parables of the Kingdom often suggest quiet, incremental growth as the norm -- the mustard seed, the leaven hidden in the dough, the stone not cut by human hands that grows into a world-filling mountain ...

I think we can anticipate ongoing Kingdom activity up 'til the end -- but the final fulfillment is literally more glorious than we can imagine. If what God is up to NOW is wonderful -- and it is -- the post-resurrection universe is something to look forward to, indeed!

677 posted on 02/17/2011 1:31:18 PM PST by RJR_fan (Lovers and winners shape the future. Losers and whiners TRY TO PREDICT IT.)
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To: RJR_fan

>> unlike you, when I say the Lord’s Prayer, I actually mean what I say<<

Unlike me? You have pomposity to tell me what I mean when I pray? Wouldn’t that statement fall under the category of arrogant and judgmental? Do you also project your assumptions on the meaning of scripture?

>> My God is at work, and invites us to work with Him. Your God apparently only wants folks to fill the bleachers, pop open a few cold ones, and wait for the fireworks to begin.<<

That and your last comment are childish and not even worth a response.


678 posted on 02/17/2011 1:38:28 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: RJR_fan

Just wanted to clarify you are not part of that strain.


679 posted on 02/17/2011 1:40:05 PM PST by DManA
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To: CynicalBear
You have pomposity to tell me what I mean when I pray? Wouldn’t that statement fall under the category of arrogant and judgmental?

Rather on a par with the accusation that one who seeks to further God's glory in this world only wants to amass material goods!

680 posted on 02/17/2011 1:41:26 PM PST by RJR_fan (Lovers and winners shape the future. Losers and whiners TRY TO PREDICT IT.)
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To: DManA

Thanks. I find it heart-warming to be taken seriously, and wisely questioned. Very Berean of you!


681 posted on 02/17/2011 1:43:15 PM PST by RJR_fan (Lovers and winners shape the future. Losers and whiners TRY TO PREDICT IT.)
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To: RJR_fan
For those who think Biblical prophecy is bunk, take a look a what is transpiring throughout the Arab-Muslim world.

The Mahadi-crazed Iranian dictatorship, armed by the Kremlin is determined to trigger war against Israel, as well as the West.

682 posted on 02/17/2011 2:50:10 PM PST by M. Espinola (Freedom is never "free")
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To: RJR_fan; CynicalBear

.
>> “Sorry your God is out of the picture for now — mine is quite busy.” <<

.
Yes, we already know that your ‘god’ is the god of snark.


683 posted on 02/17/2011 3:02:10 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: cinciella; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; Godzilla; Lera; ...

If you’re referring to some of the more comical posts that are seen, I’d say that’s responding with honey instead of vinegar. I’m sure that the person that the jackass picture is meant for gets a laugh out of it, but it gets the point across without vitriol. I certainly get a laugh out of it!

Exactly.

A pic CAN zing home a sharp arrow

IF

it *IS* TRUE

in some clearly discernable sense and

IF

and HOLY SPIRIT DRIVES IT HOME AS SUCH.

Otherwise, it’s just a fuzzy, muffled ‘point’ in a pic with little precision.


A LOT of RC’s hereon seem to be quite convinced that they have discerned my heart on such matters

and PRESUME to have JUDGED my HEART accurately and wholesale negatively.

Most of they time, they are overwhelmingly WRONG. All the time, they are mostly wrong.

Besides mind-reading and heart-reading being beyond the rules.

Sometimes I think I’ve become the DESIGNATED WHIPPING POST with the RC’s getting a year’s book of free passes for personally assaulting Quix just on principle . . . with even the RM deciding that it’s for my Heavenly Reward benefit to leave the personal assaults up for my spiritual benefit.

I say that mostly because there can be strings of one assault after another with lots of RC’s dogpiling in . . . uhhh . . . dare we say . . . gay abandon?

It gets to be so pathetic as to be amusing. I can get annoyed but mostly it’s better to leave such posts up. It shows the character & the mentality of so many folks in the Vatican . . . Cult.

Besides, IF I thought they were 0.0000% accurate or true, I’d be in sack-cloth and ashes 24/7 most days of the week.


684 posted on 02/17/2011 3:13:19 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: 1000 silverlings
What a great day to be born. My children were born in late September and early October so their birthdays periodically fall on the Feast days as well. My daughter turned 13 on Rosh Hashanah this past year. I thought that was quite special.

Blessings and Shalom!

685 posted on 02/17/2011 3:15:14 PM PST by JesusBmyGod (Baruch ha'ba B'Shem Yahweh)
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To: cinciella

In terms of me,

you’re MOSTLY right.

however, I am quite willing to own mocking things that beg to be mocked.

Christ did.

The Father did.

There’s plenty of mockery in Scripture of the enemy’s camp, values, etc.

I have to insure as best I can that my heart is right; that I’m mocking truly what deserves to be mocked and not, per se, someone’s heart, soul, personhood—which I truly cannot know by human agency—though sometimes the OUT OF THE ABUNDANCE OF THE HEART THE MOUTH SPEAKS evidence is quite plentiful! LOL.


686 posted on 02/17/2011 3:15:54 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: JesusBmyGod

That’s great, and thank you


687 posted on 02/17/2011 3:17:40 PM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: wolfcreek

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!


688 posted on 02/17/2011 3:18:37 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: editor-surveyor; topcat54; Lee N. Field; The Theophilus; RJR_fan; Quix; CynicalBear; ...
To observe the current deep decay of humanity today, with pederasty taking center stage, and government schools literally teaching homosexuality as normal, and all forms of sexual immorality as just an acceptable alternative, it takes some powerful drugs to imagine that as Christ’s millenial reign.

Did the world change when Christ died and was resurrected? Isn't that the pivotal moment in all of history? Do we need something more?

I've yet to see any dispensationalist explain the fact that there were only 12 Christians a mere 100 generations ago and now there are over two billion Christians.

Is that not progress? Isn't that a positive vector?

“Who does it benefit to believe the Gospel will not prevail in this life?”

A straw question really. The gospel has and will continue to prevail among those that are a part of his kingdom, but ultimately his kingdom is not of this Earth. He will return to make his enemies his footstool, but before he does that he will claim his own in the Harpazo that is promised.

He's already claimed His own, as evidenced by His free gift of grace through faith. His own are being gathered by the preaching of the Gospel from all corners of the world, from all nations and races. And He will lead them all home safely.

Who are "a part of his kingdom?" All believing Jews and Gentiles, "as many as were ordained to eternal life."

“The earth and everything therein were created for Christ’s sheep.”

Then why has he promised to destroy the universe with fervent heat? - No, he is creating a place for us, and it is not Earth, which will be incinerated.

So you do not believe the earth was created for us?

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." -- Romans 8:28

Regarding 2 Peter, my understanding is that when Jesus returns heaven and earth will be transformed into a new heaven and a new earth. It's quite a simple schedule. Christ was born, died and was resurrected to redeem His sheep. He spends the next whatever-amount-of-years perfecting those sheep until the day He returns again at the final judgment when all history ends and God's plan of salvation is complete.

“We may be thwarted, but we will never be defeated.”

I think you mean that Christ will never be defeated? We must be defeated that Christ may shine through us.

Nope. I've always assumed you and I both are included in Paul's assessment...

"Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us." -- Romans 8:37

Don’t get so anxious that you dismiss his plan for your own.

Anxious? Never.

"Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what he hath done for my soul." -- Psalm 66:16

And what God graciously has done for your soul and mine, He will continue to do in ever increasing numbers, if history is any indication, until He returns again.

689 posted on 02/17/2011 3:41:49 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: topcat54; editor-surveyor; presently no screen name
Since also "a chiliad is as a day" we could burn through the whole Millennium in an afternoon, eh. --lnf

They just don’t see how their “literal when convenient”/“allegorical otherwise” knife cuts both ways. ---tc54

And yet, and yet, they will also argue that Daniel's seventy sevens is down to the day accurate timewise (minus that pesky last week), but only if you pick an unobvious and unnatural starting point, and make certain assumptions about the Hebrew year, and squint right.

A gap here, a gap there, accurate timing one place, "A thousand years is as a day so the millennium is the Day of the Lord" another (and Paul's got something to do with that last (even though Peter said it)).

What it tells me is that the dispensational system really can't handle time texts with any honest consistency.

690 posted on 02/17/2011 3:45:25 PM PST by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: Lee N. Field
Exactly. What about the fact that the generation of 70 years for the state of Israel was first preached as being from some event in the 1880s, then the Balfour Declaration, and most recently from 1948.

For all the talk about no date setting each and every incarnation of the Bestselling Rapture Doctrine has followed the same path. Someone finds a new date to claim as the birth of the state of Isreal, someone writes popular books on the subject, and a new generation of those who would rather focus on the Rapture than on the work of witnessing emerges. We already see the next wave being set up because authors are nervous about that sales stream drying up. The latest thing is to date the real birth of the state of Israel as 1967 since that's when they got control of Jerusalem.

Whatever, it's obviously just a light hearted way to pass your time, have a good laugh, and give one another high fives and atta boys without resorting to online games of Halo but not much different. Otherwise someone might have to focus on justifying how little they reflect Christ rather than how they barely mange to keep a civil tongue.

691 posted on 02/17/2011 4:00:05 PM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: Lee N. Field
What it tells me is that the dispensational system really can't handle time texts with any honest consistency.

What it tells me is that you don't take this literal....

"The man WITHOUT the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
692 posted on 02/17/2011 4:02:04 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Rashputin; cinciella

PROVERBS 17:22
A merry heart doeth good like a medicine!

PROVERBS 15:13
A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance: but by sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken.


693 posted on 02/17/2011 4:11:55 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: cinciella
Fruit of the Spirit, humble and contrite heart, among others.

But I can't see into your heart. How would these things be manifest to others?

I don’t see good works as a “necessary” component in salvation either...but I think they are an important evidence of salvation - not always possible though (i.e. thief on the cross, deathbed conversions).

Under normal circumstances every believer will manifest good works.

694 posted on 02/17/2011 4:39:09 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: presently no screen name; Lee N. Field
"The man WITHOUT the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Is this justification for allegorizing the text?

695 posted on 02/17/2011 4:40:53 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: editor-surveyor; Lee N. Field
Never offering serious analysis, and going bonkers when serious analysis is presented; discussion with such is a handshake with a pit viper.


696 posted on 02/17/2011 4:58:51 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Dr E, the dispensations are God’s economy, and recognizing how God’s economy works is expected of us.

Neither you nor I can know how many Christians there are, and it would be wonderful if your guess is right, but what does that have to do with this discussion?

Our salvation through Jesus Christ is certainly the crowing achievement of creation, but again, that neither adds nor subtracts to either of our positions WRT this discussion.

The millenial reign has a purpose, and it relates mostly to Israel, not the church. The present age is the church age, and it definitely is in a steep falling away, leading to greater strife, and a false peace that will bring God’s wrath on mankind. I’m thankful that he has promised to meet the church in the air before it happens.


697 posted on 02/17/2011 5:25:16 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: M. Espinola
For those who think Biblical prophecy is bunk, take a look a what is transpiring throughout the Arab-Muslim world.

Or, just to make sure all our bases are covered:

Let's see what believing eyes see happening in the world of Islam: more Iranians coming to Jesus in the last 30 year than in the previous 1,000. Turkish Christians exploding in number from 50 to 5,000 in 30 years. Evangelism winning African Muslims to Christ faster than they can beget replacements. Millions of Muslim students showing up on our doorstep, eager to make American friends and find out what Christians really believe.

Or, for that matter, communication technologies that perforate the firewall Islam needs to survive.

That reminds me -- I'm slacking off too much on my Turkish lessons. It's hard work, too easy to procrastinate, one of those important projects that isn't urgent at any particular point, but requiring a degree of constant attention ...

Twenty years from now, God willing, I may well be teaching the gospel in formerly Muslim nations -- and you? Looking for the latest mystical patterns in newspaper headlines?

698 posted on 02/17/2011 5:31:55 PM PST by RJR_fan (Lovers and winners shape the future. Losers and whiners TRY TO PREDICT IT.)
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To: presently no screen name; topcat54; Dr. Eckleburg
What it tells me is that the dispensational system really can't handle time texts with any honest consistency.

What it tells me is that you don't take this literal....

"The man WITHOUT the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

What an incredible cop out.

Extra Scofieldism nulla salus? Is that what you mean to say?

BTW, what translation are you quoting from? It matches nothing I have here.

699 posted on 02/17/2011 6:56:16 PM PST by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: editor-surveyor; topcat54; Lee N. Field; The Theophilus; CynicalBear; 1000 silverlings; RJR_fan; ...
I don't find "dispensations" in the Bible.

I see the time before Christ and the time after Christ.

Israel is a democracy that should be supported by United States foreign policy. But regarding God's people, it is just a pile of dirt and rocks like the rest of the planet, no better and no worse.

To venerate real estate is no different than what the papists do with their "holy" scraps and relics.

I don't understand Christians who do not see Christ in the Old Testament or who believe that all men are not commanded today to kneel to Jesus Christ alone.

B.C./A.D.

Those are the only "dispensations" that mean anything.

700 posted on 02/17/2011 7:45:51 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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