The Sin of Suicide

A couple of years ago the doctor wrote out medicine for me. Well I took this pill I almost killed myself. It was some crazy chemical inbalance whatever instant deep depression for an hour or more. I just prayed to Christ with the our father with please Jesus help me. I truly believe the healing of the Lord. I throw that bootle of pills out. I will never persume that someone deserved to go to hell for suicede ever!

Many doctors are too quick to write scripts and not search for physical cause first. I've seen first hand twice what antidepressants can do if given to the wrong person it almost cost that person her life. They tried them on me and I refused because they worsened my problem which is a sensory processing disorder that trigger seizures and anxiety.

GOD works in many ways. I saw a person I love dearly who was out of her head hallucinating. Her pulse was rapid and her arms thrashing. First ER doctor said Committal to a mental hospital. I said no. He said I'll call the state and he did. About an hour later I found her in her wheel chair unconscious. I yelled for the doctor and said do something. Generally most mental disorders do not work like that. He didn't even draw blood.

Off to ER #2. They got her conscious again but still hallucinating. I told them what happened and that doctor said she's going to a mental institute. I said no. He called the state and me and the state discussed it. The state declined moving her.

They at first took her off all her meds and in about two and a half days she was back to herself. In walks a Shrink whom we didn't know from Adam and ups her meds. She was being treated for Clinical Depression and PTSD. Next day in walks the nurse with the Zoloft. Within one hour she was hallucinating again. I went home the next morning for a shower and some sleep. On the way I pooped into the hospital chapel for a prayer like I had done previous days.

When I got home I was dead tired but went on line. I typed in Zoloft and Trazodone +adverse reactions. There was the answer. Serotonin Syndrome. It's effect is like that of LSD. It causes the serotonin to migrate from the stomach to the brain. I printed the article and called my dad at the hospital and said don't let them giver her any meds till I get there. I went back to the hospital and showed the nurse who wasn't impressed. I sad get the doctor this is serious. She said he comes by tomorrow. I said OK no more meds by Ativan till I see him.

He came in next morning hotter than fire at me. I said she has Serotonin Syndrome. He said that's just rubbish there's no such thing. I said read it and the author. LOL It was their pharmacology professor.

My point is any pill not given for the right disorder to start with can cause problems. She was taking the antidepressants because she faced surgery. A dentist a few years before darn near killed her with a pain medication he wrote her called Mepraghan. That was for a simple tooth extraction. That pill caused her to go into drug induced hypothermia.

BTW the person this happened too was and still is a quadriplegic. Anyone with any neurological impairments needs to be extra careful with all medications myself included.

I’m not Roman Catholic, but a Reformed Protestant, and I am not so sure that we should easily go the “mental illness/depression” route. Scripture is clear that things like suicide (ie. self murder) are sins that come clearly from the heart.

I agree with you that we cannot immediately assign all blame for suicide to mental illness/depression. But I am also a reformed protestant... and I observe that the dangerous errors of overcertainty and lack of compassion are far too common in our circles. A person who commits suicide is a tortured soul. That can be entirely due to their personal sin, perhaps...or perhaps it could also be because of fallenness in the world around them that they aren't able to cope with, but also are not entirely culpable for. We don't know. But we do know that "all creation groans...." Is suicide a sin? Yes, I believe. But extrapolating from that to damnation (not that you were doing this, but it is common place that people go) is not something that we can or should do, according to my understanding.

Isn’t it just amazing. And to think that someone just mentioned something about suicide and I posted this thread.

God is so good.

blushing, :O) Thank you..

Oh, what a story. Medications are sometimes so dangerous. Prayers for your friend.

Yeah, its amazing. There is so much more to do, so much research. It kills me when I see the anti pharmacology and anti treatment nuts out there. They are the same as the anti vaccine nuts. They don’t understand the science, they refuse to think.

His problem was that he was not under good guidance, as he was a very low income patient. Tragic, yes, but what a great guy, he was happy as a Muslim, he really was. He was such an intelligent and gentle person. He had a crush on one of my employees, a small town Mormon girl. I would joke with her that I really wanted to go to the wedding, though I’d have to bring my own alcohol!

I feel for his family, they never understood how to deal with him and his changes. They were very nice people, but he chose his path, and he was happy.

I’ve suffered from anxiety and panic most of my life. Was on antidepressants that helped for a while and then simply didn’t anymore. I found my answer in a wonderful book entitled,”The Mood Cure.” I highly recommend it.

Steve, I’ve just signed up for free republic, but I have lurked for a long while. So, I have to say that I usually love what you post.

“In many cases, depression is a cross to bear and the afflicted serves God’s will by suffering so.”

Yes, that is very true. We all have crosses to bear, and it is great that we please God by doing so.

I have and will pray for you. I do so knowing that I am a very bad sinner in much need of prayer. If you want to, can you pray for me too?

When I worked in the hospital, I was sometimes pulled to the psych. unit when their medication nurse called in sick. ECT does work for some and its not the horrible treatment you see in the movies...it does work in some cases, others not so much..

Just When You Think Life Is for the Birds, Take Heart — A Biblical Reflection for the 8th Sunday in Ordinary Time, Year A by Fr. Thomas Rosica

Just When You Think Life Is for the Birds, Take Heart — A Biblical Reflection for the 8th Sunday in Ordinary Time, Year A

In today’s reading from Matthew’s Gospel (6:25-34), Jesus does not deny the reality of human needs (v. 32), but forbids making them the object of anxious care and, in effect, becoming their slave.

Those who truly know God as the heavenly Father revealed by Jesus cannot be concerned about human needs in the same way. While disciples have to take reasonable care of themselves and of those for whom they are responsible, such concerns take second place to dedication to the rule of God and the “righteousness” (v. 33) for which it calls.

Verse 25 of today’s Gospel indicates two major areas of concern for the human being: sustenance (food and drink) necessary for life, and clothing. Each of the areas is addressed — food (vv. 26-27), clothing (vv. 28-30) — in an argument that rests upon a New Testament logic. If God takes such care of the birds in the air, and ensures their feeding, and sees to it that the lilies of the field are magnificently adorned, how much more then will our heavenly Father take pains to see that the disciples shall not go wanting, since they are more precious in the divine sight than the birds of air and the flowers of the field?

In using this analogy, Jesus is by no means making a moral statement, but rather an imaginative appeal.

Worrywart

The great Christian author and apologist C.S. Lewis was a devout Christian, but he admitted that throughout his life he was a great worrier! Commenting on today’s Gospel passage (Matthew 6:25-34), Lewis frequently wrote to his friends saying: “If God wanted us to live like the birds of the air, it would have be nice for him to have given us a constitution that was more like theirs!”

Jesus did not seem to be a person who worried a great deal; he lived his life on the principle of trusting his heavenly Father, and he tried to teach his followers to do the same. The refrain running through today’s Gospel contains the sentiments of “do not worry” (vv. 25, 27, 28, 31 and twice in 34). A better translation of the expression could be, “do not fret” or “do not be preoccupied.” Disciples may have legitimate concerns for material goods, but if those concerns are filled with insecurities and cause new forms of enslavement to wealth, they will inevitably lead people into slavery to two separate masters. We are called to serve God and God alone in the deepest sense in order to experience authentic freedom.

Providential care

The three Scripture readings for this Sunday invite us to reflect on God’s providential care of us. When we say ‘Divine Providence,’ we are referring to the name of God, especially God as Father and Creator, which brings all of the dynamics of human existence into meaning. Providence is often expressed only as a design for the universe in which all is ordered and formed as care for lilies and sparrows. Though the term Providence is applied to God only three times in Scripture (Ecclesiastes 5:5; Wisdom 14:3; Judith 9:5), and once to Wisdom (Wisdom 6:17), teaching about Providence is consistently found in both the Old and the New Testaments. God’s will governs all things. God loves all people, desires the salvation of all and God’s paternal Providence extends to all nations. God desires not the death of sinners, but rather that they should repent; for God is above all things a merciful God and a God of much compassion. God rewards us according to our works, our thoughts and our devices. God alone converts evil into good.

You are worth more

Jesus taught about God’s provident care for his children and on not being anxious for the future. Can any of you by worrying add a single hour to your life? Jesus invited his disciples then and now to “consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds!” What holds true for food applies also to clothing and other necessities of life (“consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not clothed like one of these”).

Those who see reality permeated by the Providence of God gradually grow in wisdom. Serenity, born of time and grace, becomes evident to onlookers and passersby. The terrible beauty of the earth, with its calms and its storms, its gentle breezes and its hurricanes, its new life and its deaths, seems somehow to be within the person who lives by trustingly believing in God’s Providence.

What is worth fearing?

Throughout the Old Testament, humans are the main subjects of fear. The reasons for this fear are war, death, enslavement, loss of a wife or child, disaster, or even a particular place. Trust in God brings freedom from fear. Fear also arises in the presence of those who stand in a special relation to God, such as Moses (Exodus 34:30), Joshua (Joshua 4:14), or Samuel (1 Samuel 12:18).

How many times in the Gospels do we hear Jesus telling people to “Fear not!” Jairus is not to be anxious (Mark 5:36); the disciples receive assurance (Mark 6:50); the three apostles atop Mount Tabor are enabled to look up (Matthew 17:7); the women’s fear gives way to proclamation and resurrection faith (Matthew 28:10); those whom the angels visit in the infancy narratives are told not to fear (Luke 1:13, 30; 2:10); and in a vision, Peter and Paul are both told by the Lord not to fear in a context of discipleship and service (Luke 5:10 and Acts 18:9).

What is worth fearing? Jesus warns his followers about those who can harm the soul. To what does this refer today? To those people or situations who can dehydrate the spirit, crushing it and sapping it of life, killing hopes and dreams, destroying faith and joy. Often those who dehydrate the spirit and kill hope and joy are not “bad” people! In fact, they are often very good people, and yes, even “church” people and ‘religious’ people! We often harm the souls of others through our cynicism, our meanness of spirit and smallness of mind and heart; our lack of faith, hope and joy. How often have we denied Jesus through our own reluctance to talk about him and give witness to him, for fear of excluding others?

It is consoling to know once in a while that all of our trials and tribulations, our pains anxieties are not in vain. The next time we get that fearful feeling that our life is for the birds, let us take heart, and have a bit more courage and confidence in the Father’s care.

Merciful Providence

Let me leave you with these moving words of Pope John Paul II, which he addressed the General Assembly of the United Nations Organization in New York City on October 5th, 1995. His reference to the “radiant humanity of Christ” and to the destiny of the world “in the hands of a merciful Providence” continues to move and inspire me today.

Because of the radiant humanity of Christ, nothing genuinely human fails to touch the hearts of Christians. Faith in Christ does not impel us to intolerance. On the contrary, it obliges us to engage others in a respectful dialogue. Love of Christ does not distract us from interest in others, but rather invites us to responsibility for them, to the exclusion of no one and indeed, if anything, with a special concern for the weakest and the suffering. Thus, as we approach the two thousandth anniversary of the birth of Christ, the Church asks only to be able to propose respectfully this message of salvation, and to be able to promote, in charity and service, the solidarity of the entire human family.
Ladies and Gentlemen! I come before you, as did my predecessor Pope Paul VI exactly thirty years ago, not as one who exercises temporal power — these are his words — nor as a religious leader seeking special privileges for his community. I come before you as a witness: a witness to human dignity, a witness to hope, a witness to the conviction that the destiny of all nations lies in the hands of a merciful Providence.
We must overcome our fear of the future. But we will not be able to overcome it completely unless we do so together. The ‘answer’ to that fear is neither coercion nor repression, nor the imposition of one social ‘model’ on the entire world. The answer to the fear which darkens human existence at the end of the twentieth century is the common effort to build the civilization of love, founded on the universal values of peace, solidarity, justice, and liberty. And the ‘soul’ of the civilization of love is the culture of freedom: the freedom of individuals and the freedom of nations, lived in self-giving solidarity and responsibility.
We must not be afraid of the future. We must not be afraid of man. It is no accident that we are here. Each and every human person has been created in the ‘image and likeness’ of the One who is the origin of all that is. We have within us the capacities for wisdom and virtue. With these gifts, and with the help of God’s grace, we can build in the next century and the next millennium a civilization worthy of the human person, a true culture of freedom. We can and must do so! And in doing so, we shall see that the tears of this century have prepared the ground for a new springtime of the human spirit” (No. 17-18).

The proclamation of the word of God and the protection of creation

As we continue our reflection on Verbum Domini let us consider No. 108 of the postsynodal exhortation that reflected on the theme The Word of God in the Life and Mission of the Church.

Engagement with the world, as demanded by God’s word, makes us look with new eyes at the entire created cosmos, which contains traces of that word through whom all things were made (cf. John 1:2). As men and women who believe in and proclaim the Gospel, we have a responsibility towards creation. Revelation makes known God’s plan for the cosmos, yet it also leads us to denounce that mistaken attitude which refuses to view all created realities as a reflection of their Creator, but instead as mere raw material, to be exploited without scruple. Man thus lacks that essential humility which would enable him to see creation as a gift from God, to be received and used in accordance with his plan. Instead, the arrogance of human beings who live ‘as if God did not exist’ leads them to exploit and disfigure nature, failing to see it as the handiwork of the creative word. In this theological context, I would like to echo the statements of the Synod Fathers who reminded us that ‘accepting the word of God, attested to by Scripture and by the Church’s living Tradition, gives rise to a new way of seeing things, promotes an authentic ecology which has its deepest roots in the obedience of faith … [and] develops a renewed theological sensitivity to the goodness of all things, which are created in Christ.’ We need to be re-educated in wonder and in the ability to recognize the beauty made manifest in created realities” (No. 108).

Fr. Thomas Rosica, CSB
CEO Salt and Light Catholic Media Foundation

The readings for this Sunday are Isaiah 49:14-15; 1 Corinthians 4:1-5; Matthew 6:24-34.

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Images: 1. CNS photo/Gregory A. Shemitz –Visitors walk through a field after picking herbs at Sisters Hill Farm in Stanfordville, New York. 2. CNS/Photo — Pope John Paul II embraces a girl during his visit to New York in 1995.

And, in many cases, I believe its their religion that messed them up. Priests and preachers are NOT mental health counselors, they don’t know (nor should they) about how the brain and the body chemicals work. Depression is real, Pharmacology works, counseling works. Keep religion out of the mix, it harms some people as much as it helps some.

I had a guy I work with tell my wife her lack of faith keeps her in a wheelchair. I told him no a C-5/C-6 spinal infarction and likely Polio Relapse keeps her there. His church is so legalistic {a name it claim it type} that any events other than peaches and cream life is their fault because of their faith and that is not what The Bible teaches at all.

Let me put it this way. If I'm going to be operated on I prefer both a surgeon and prayer. I'm not too dense too realize that the doctor himself was given his talents from GOD just as therapist.

I'll say this as well. I've seen the laying on of hands work but not in a manner that was expected. For healing the person they were praying for? Nope. She lived but can't walk. During that event I felt the presence of The Holy Spirit overcome me and heard an audible voice say It's going to be OK. It was a peace I had never know before or sense.

It was my girlfriend the hands were on. My new found love. Months earlier my first marriage ended with vows fulfilled. It was till death did we part. I almost lost my girlfriend I met a few months afterward due to the onset of quadriplegia.

I was taking her to the ER from a mall and she was describing her death to me. She too was dieing. She knew what she was seeing she was a CNA and sat with many of her patients in their final hour.

Here's what many Christians don't realize. Bad things will happen. Sometimes miracles happen and sometimes GOD has His own reasons as too why things must be. This was one of those times and it started with the loss of my first wife who was 23.

The woman I met had been abused all her life and raising her kids also due to abandonment by an abusive husband. Had my first wife not died we would not have met & she likely would have died as well. We met because I took a job transfer after my wife died. I was with her when the quadriplegia hit. I got her to the ER and first night was touch and go for her.

Like I said it was a traumatic period of time. It changed me and it changed my entire outlook on life. We married three months after this hit her and that was 26 years ago. What would you consider the odds of us lasting the first year? LOL

GOD didn't say she was to be healed He said it was going to be OK. Nine years later my own disability hit. If you get an anxiety patient who spasms like getting hit with a cattle prod he's having Myoclonic Seizures. Chances are his sensory system is dysfunctional such as auditory and Visual disorders. They treated me for typical anxiety SSRI's nearly pushed me over the edge. Xanax has been my friend for 16 years plus. A good drug in my case.

You see we're perfectly matched brawn and brains. I didn't loose my ability to lift her from bed to wheelchair when this hit. I lost substantial concentration abilities though. I rely on her and she relies on me. It took me years to understand the message given me. But I hate to think of where I would be if I hadn't met her at that time in my life.

GOD didn't let neither me nor her down. In our adversities He is there. If you can find it look for a book called Joni. It was a book they had my wife read when she got to rehab. It really can reach ones who are suddenly afflicted with serious illness.

All of you are to be commended. Open thread. Honest discussion, many faiths, no belittling, no sarcasm, no condescending posts.

I am so touched by all your testimonials and stories. I wish all the Religion Forum threads on FR could be like this.

We are indeed livng in troubled times. Let us reach out to one another in love and support.

Good night.

I’m not following your position and I suspect you have missed mine.

Suicide involves the human volition.

It is not an act performed through faith in Christ.

It is by its very nature a form of thinking directed at oneself, and not towards God through faith in what God has provided at the Cross.

Suffering is a different issue. I fully agree that suffering is not limited to Divine punitive suffering, and indeed a believer in faith with Christ is indeed likely to endure temptation and suffering as a part of providential testing, which we do not always prevail. Our failure, though, is not due to our justly acting, but by falling out of fellowship with Him, not following His Plan, otherwise known as missing the mark or sin.

Suicide is painful for family members for numerous reasons. First is the grief consequential to death.

Death, as a state of existence involving separation, which we are unable to influence, leaves us in a state of grief.

It’s the very same state which God the Holy Spirit feels every time we fail to remain in fellowship with Him, i.e. when we sin, i.e. when we ‘Grieve the Holy Spirit’.

We also recognize the act as a sin unto death, not necessarily removing eternal life, but ceasing the suicidal victim’s opportunity to merit any future rewards in heaven beyond those he may have already satisfied. Such a constraint had eternal consequence.

Some people think suicide is a method of solving their suffering. This places man before God and before the Cross as a solution to our problems and is self-deceptive. If they believe they are justified in suicide, then they are placing more value on their judgment than upon God in His work at the Cross and are self-justified. If they refuse to place faith in God and what He has provided and how He will continue to endure in keeping His Word, then the suicide proponent also is self-absorbed, placing himself before God in his volition.

So sorry. May G-d be with you and comfort you.

I have seen loved ones die. I don’t believe in miracles as there is no empirical data, its a nice thought for others, but for me, I can’t accept the supernatural. My father had a strict no-code on him, it worked, he crashed with an infection after a nasty surgery found cancer. He had no desire to be elderly and undergo chemo and radiation, he lucked out, he got an infection and he was not able to be saved by any means, and he died a very quick and peaceful death. My mother died at home of cancer. I was there for both, I saw it, I experienced it. It was sad, it was tragic and it affected me. Prayer would not have changed any of it. I cant’ believe in prayer, it only helps those who are doing the prayer. There have been lab studies, it does nothing. I would never ever tell someone not to pray, but for me, its meaningless.

I don’t believe in a god like you do, I respect your views, and, for me it was a long tough road to get to my position. But, its a liberating view for me, I control my life for the rest of my life, I have the power over my choices. My life is mine, I can’t cede it to a supernatural force without evidence that it is there. That is just how I operate.

Again, I will never tell you what to think or do, its our lives our choices and I wish you the best.

Great testimony. GB

Hell is not for most cases of suicide. Purgatory is!

It was a good thread til you threw that garbage in...There is not one whit of biblical evidence that any such thing as purgatory exists...AND not a whit of biblical evidence that a person who commits suicide goes to hell because of the suicide...

It's a fallacy to destroy the faith of those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior who do not bow down to your pope...It is intended to lead vulnerable people to the false teaching of your religion...

Well, for the mentally ill, wouldn’t Limbo be the place for suicides? Just joking, Limbo as dogma was abandoned years ago.

Its all silly.

Depression is real, Pharmacology works, counseling works. Keep religion out of the mix, it harms some people as much as it helps some.

NONSENSE...

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Sometimes it's clinical...Sometimes it's spiritual...

The Sin of Suicide

What is the Church's teaching regarding suicide? I always thought that suicide was a mortal sin, so how is it that a person can be buried in the Church?

Just When You Think Life Is for the Birds, Take Heart — A Biblical Reflection for the 8th Sunday in Ordinary Time, Year A