Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Mormonism - Does it follow Jesus Christ? [Mormonism/Anti-Chistian
Christian Answers ^ | John Bechtle

Posted on 03/01/2011 6:53:09 PM PST by delacoert

The Mormon church describes itself as the Church of Jesus Christ; why then do most other churches say that Mormonism is not Christian?

When Mormon missionaries come to my door, even they sometimes make the point that the Mormon church is different than all other churches that claim to be Christian. I find that I must agree. Even though Mormonism says many of the same things that other churches say, a more detailed discussion usually reveals that the ideas behind many of the words are totally different than orthodox Christianity. Even though Mormons often display admirable traits in personal and family life, the doctrinal positions of the church itself cannot be harmonized with the teaching of the Bible.

Here are some key differences…

About God

Mormonism says: God is the Supreme Being of the universe, but he has not always held that position. He gradually attained godhood by living a perfectly righteous life.

…We must accept the fact that there was a time when Deity was much less powerful than He is today. Then how did He become glorified and exalted and attain His present status of Godhood? In the first place, aeons ago God undoubtedly took advantage of every opportunity to learn the laws of truth and as He became acquainted with each new verity He righteously obeyed it. From day to day He exerted His will vigorously, and as a result became thoroughly acquainted with the forces lying about Him. As He gained more knowledge through persistent effort and continuous industry, as well as through absolute obedience, His understanding of the universal laws continued to become more complete. Thus He grew in experience and continued to grow until He attained the status of Godhood. In other words, He became God by absolute obedience to all the truth, and thereby became the author of eternal truth. Therefore, the road that the Eternal Father followed to Godhood was one of living at all times a dynamic, industrious, and completely righteous life. There is no other way to exaltation.
—Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages (Salt Lake City: Steven & Wallis, 1945), pp. 114-115 (emphasis added).

Mormonism also teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones.

The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also…
Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22.

The Bible says: God has existed eternally in perfection, and has never had less of His infinite power and wisdom than He has today. Adam was the first created man of flesh.

About Jesus Christ

Mormonism says: Jesus and Satan, like the rest of us, were spirit brothers and sons of God before the spirit of Jesus was given a body by Mary in Bethlehem. The Mormon “Book of Moses” presents Satan and Jesus as contending for the privilege of taking a body of flesh in order to become the redeemer, with Jesus winning the contest. [See Joseph Smith, Pearl of Great Price, Book of Moses 4:1-4.]

Mormonism also teaches that Jesus was the physical son of God the Father and Mary, and that there is nothing in His life more than what is attainable by anyone else. 

When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus… he was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is his Father? He is the first of the human family. …Jesus our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden.
—Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 1:50-51, as cited in Gordon H. Fraser, Is Mormonism Christian? (Chicago: Moody, 1955), p. 58.

His humanity is to be recognized as real and ordinary …whatever happened to him may happen to any one of us. …The divinity of Jesus, and the divinity of all other noble and stately souls, in so far as they, too, have been influenced by a spark of Deity - can be recognized as manifestations of the Divine.
—Parley P. Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology (Salt Lake City: Deseret, 1883) (emphasis added).

The Bible says: Jesus Christ has existed eternally as God the second Person of the Trinity, and then took on a human nature at His birth in Bethlehem. Since then He exists eternally as one Person with both divine and human natures.

About Man

Mormonism says: All human beings and spirits, including Jesus and Satan, existed as spirit beings before being born. Physical birth gives bodies to these spirits, and an opportunity to choose right or wrong. Thus the present life is a period of probation. The way a person lives in this life determines their status in the life after the resurrection. If the deeds of this life have been satisfactory and all temple obligations have been fulfilled, the individual becomes a god and is considered eligible to create “spirit children” as God the Father did and populate a world of his own.

The Bible says: There is no pre-existence of human spirits in an earlier life before our earthly existence; the Bible does not teach this in any form. And humanity is permanently on a lower level than God. Though we may become like Him in moral purity in heaven, we never become infinite in regard to time, space or ability. And the Bible says nothing about populating other worlds—simply about the futurekingdom of Christ and the New Jerusalem on this world (Revelation 21-22).

Sources of Authority

Mormonism says: The Mormon church uses the Bible and the Book of Mormon as their primary authority, with the addition of the Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price.

We believe the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. —Articles of Faith, 8.

The LDS “Living Prophet” can speak oracles which actually supercede scripture and any previous prophet's oracles, including Joseph Smith. The Bible holds the least amount of authority in the Mormon church.

The Bible says: God's Word (the Bible) alone is authoritative.

About Salvation

Mormonism says that Christ overcame physical death and guaranteed physical resurrection to all mankind. But spiritual death can only be avoided by individual obedience to the commandments of God.

We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. …We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
—Articles of Faith, 3 and 4 (emphasis added)

Forgiveness of sins requires baptism by an approved Mormon priest. The practice of baptism for the dead is an extension of this belief, in which Mormons are baptized in proxy for those who have died without proper baptism.

The Bible says: We are unable to live a life righteous enough to meet God's standard of perfect holiness. Therefore we become right with God by faith in the work of Christ, not by our own works. Baptism and holy living are acts of obedience to God, but not a means of gaining salvation.

The Future

Mormonism says: Although there is some form of punishment (possibly temporary) for those that are most wicked, Christ will usher in a kingdom that will consist of three levels by the end of the millennium: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, and the telestial kingdom. It is possible to advance within each of these kingdoms.

The Bible only speaks of two final fates for mankind: heaven or hell. And nothing is said of advancing in status in either location.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS: christianjihad; inman; jihad; lds; mormonism
A clear and concise comparison between th Mormon cult an Christianity.
1 posted on 03/01/2011 6:53:14 PM PST by delacoert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: delacoert

Any Church / Cult / Religion that ‘pretends’ to know the mind of God and where he came from has lost me.

Many mistake God’s Word as being the Holy Bible. But John 1 indicates other wise.

Christ is the Word of God.

And we we know who created the heavens and the Earth.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

Col 1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;

So how can we know all that there is know about God?

Forget the trees, look at the forest (pun intended)

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Now I bet that comes to a shock to many. No mention of a mans interpretation here.


2 posted on 03/01/2011 7:16:14 PM PST by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delacoert; All

Does Mormonism follow Jesus Christ?

Absolutely. Anyone telling you otherwise is either misled or lying.


3 posted on 03/01/2011 7:22:32 PM PST by Paragon Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All
Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the "quotation" the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were "only" quoting our own material.  

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Some of them claim being some sort of special witness to you as being supposedly former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would never have an axe to grind or have reason to try to justify their actions by any means? Perhaps not but perhaps so. The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. This doesn't make them an expert on anything and you certainly won't hear them attacking their former Church.

Frequently they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" they seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.

The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, quote and straw man attack that. Almost without fail you will see examples of this following this post.

Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think. So again, seek the truth. They aren't providing it. Use your God-given brain and discernment.

Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the "issues" brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the "you never address or answer our points" posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you? They often state that these sites provide no answer. They just don't want you looking. It is as simple as that.

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both "sides". Make up your own mind.

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

 


4 posted on 03/01/2011 7:23:50 PM PST by Paragon Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender

“Does Mormonism follow Jesus Christ?”

Sure! It follows the mormon Jesus, who started as a
created spirit being, came to earth to get a body,
became a god through his worthy works, scored two
wives while here. Oh, yea. They follow him for sure.

No arguments from Christians on that. We just follow
the Biblical Christ, who was not created nor made,
but eternally existed as God.


5 posted on 03/01/2011 7:25:53 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender

I am not a Mormon but I have many Mormon friends.

We should never forget, as we judge, so we will be judged. God judges a mans heart. Who can do the same?


6 posted on 03/01/2011 7:28:55 PM PST by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

The Mormons are good people. They are not God’s people!


7 posted on 03/01/2011 7:31:32 PM PST by Doctor Don
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

These statements and more demonstrate the seperateness of Christianity and Mormonism.

The only reason they say "We are Christian" is an attempt to morph into something they are not and co-opt Christianity.

 

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world"
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels."
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p.

"Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent."
- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon."
- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324

Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.”
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46

"I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight" (Joseph Smith History 1:19).

"...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian." (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)

"...the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a being of their own creation..." (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, JD 23:243)

"The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God." (Brigham Young, JD 8:171)

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best." (John Taylor, JD 13:225)

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." (John Taylor, JI) 13:225)

"Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177)

"...brother Joseph B. Nobles once told a Methodist priest, after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshiped was the "Mormon's" Devil-a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts and passions." (Brigham Young, JD 5:331)

"...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness." (Pratt, The Seer, p.255)

 

“God is not at its head, making that church [i.e., Christianity] – following the appearance in it of Satan – no longer the church of God. To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the apostles is not to say that all that is in it is Satanic.”
- Kent P. Jackson, “Early Signs of Apostasy,” Ensign, December 1984, p. 9

1 Nephi 14:10 "Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of god, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth."

"Orthodox Christian views of God are pagan rather than Christian" (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, B. H. Roberts [General Authority], 116).

Brigham Young: “…and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol 9 pg 312).

Mormon Apostle Hyrum M. Smith,- “In fact, my brethren and sisters, if the falsity of a religion can be measured in any degree by the amount of trouble and turmoil and strife and bitterness and hatred that it has engendered in the hearts of men, if it can be judged by the number of wars it has carried on and the rivers of blood it has shed, the amount of misery and sorrow, it has caused, or the extremes of impurity, found among its adherents, then Christianity, that which is known as Christianity, is the falsest of all religions in the world… The trouble is, as God declared to Joseph the Prophet, mankind have gone astray. Their religions are an abomination in his sight, and their professors are corrupt because they have turned away from the truth and have turned unto fables.” (Conference Report, October 1916, p.43).

 


8 posted on 03/01/2011 7:46:39 PM PST by Vendome (Don’t take life so seriously... You’ll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender

Dang it!

In after PD.


9 posted on 03/01/2011 7:55:34 PM PST by Vendome (Don’t take life so seriously... You’ll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Doctor Don

Don’t be so quick to judge.

Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Rom 9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

It is not the road that we are on, or the provision we take that matters. It is what we do with them that count. Note... The Good Samaritan

James said it very well:

Jam 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Jam 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.


10 posted on 03/01/2011 7:57:15 PM PST by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Religion_and_Spirituality/Faiths_and_Practices/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects


11 posted on 03/01/2011 7:58:48 PM PST by BlueMoose
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

The spiritual limitations of Mormonism are a direct result of Joseph Smith’s effort to recreate God’s word in man’s image. Too bad he failed to appreciate Christ’s true nature because it would have saved him from a life of lies and deception. Mormanism began as a cult and hopefully, it has outgrown its limitations.


12 posted on 03/01/2011 7:59:48 PM PST by jonrick46 (We're being water boarded with the sewage of Fabian Socialism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BornToBeAmerican

“We should never forget, as we judge, so we will be judged. God judges a mans heart. Who can do the same?”

We can judge and are commanded to judge actions and also teachings and doctrine that are false or contrary to the Word of God...

JOHN 7:14: “Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

LUKE 12:57: “Yea, and why not even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?”

PSALM 37:30: “The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.”

PROVERBS 31:9: “Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.”

LUKE 17:3: “Take heed... If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent,

2 Peter 2:1-3 but there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them - bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping”

1 John 4:1 “dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world”

1 Timothy 4:1-8 1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
6If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed. 7Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 8For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

That is a sample from the Bible. There is, of course, much more.

==>> One might ask, did you not judge the very post you responded to? <<==

Righteous judgment of the words, teachings and doctrines of others is perfectly allowable by God.

[hat tip to ejonesie22 for original response to the same issue many moons ago]


13 posted on 03/02/2011 8:30:14 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: BornToBeAmerican

Romans 9 is about the Jews - the nation of Israel - not mormons.

No doubt there are Christians who have mistakenly wandered int0 the maze of mormonsism. No doubt there are individual mormons who despite the teachings of mormonism still come to know the truth.

But the teachings of mormonism are not Christian. The only thing Christianity and mormonism have in common is the name, Jesus Christ... and they mean something entirely different when they use that name.

best,
ampu


14 posted on 03/02/2011 8:36:26 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender

I bet in real life you’re a nice person.


15 posted on 03/02/2011 9:22:13 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

Dedicated to those who missed out on the 838 previous Mormonism-bashing threads.


16 posted on 03/02/2011 9:26:50 AM PST by Hoodat (Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. - (Rom 8:37))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hoodat

BTTT


17 posted on 03/02/2011 9:31:48 AM PST by Dagnabitt ("Obama" - Swahili for "Fail")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender; All

Seekers of truth - you will find that EVERY point made in the article comes directly from mormon doctrinal works and official teachings of the mormon church. Were the seeker to investigate those points they would find that they were cited correctly -

They believe ‘God’ was once a man

They believe Jesus and Satan and you are all spirit brothers from the preexistance.

The sources of authority are valid and taught in “Gospel Principles” - the primary doctrinal teaching guide

Salvation is described from the mormon’s own Articles of Faith - sheesh how much “seeking” does one have to do for that. Even at that it only barely scratches the heretical mormon teachings on salvation.

End times - again from mormon sources.

Are any of PD’s so-called sources going to contradict these - no, since they all teach these doctrines to begin with. Perhaps PD doesn’t know what his church teaches, he certainly doesn’t understand what Christianity teaches.

How are they misrepresented? Ah, watch for the abundance of obfuscations and non-answers from the PD’d one. Since PD claims them to be misrepresented, then PD is misrepresenting mormonism.

Ah, just more enjoyable anti-Christian spam from the mormon spambot.


18 posted on 03/02/2011 9:32:45 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Godzilla; Paragon Defender
Geez, you guys should just put on the gloves and settle this in the ring.


19 posted on 03/02/2011 9:59:02 AM PST by Hoodat (Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. - (Rom 8:37))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Hoodat
For your reading pleasure


20 posted on 03/02/2011 10:08:18 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion

==>> One might ask, did you not judge the very post you responded to? <<==

Good question and fair. Yes. But there is a difference between judging and condemning.

Here is why....

Luk 6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Luk 6:42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye.

The crazy thing is that we can’t see the beam because we’re blind.

All I am saying is that each of us is playing with the hand of cards that were dealt by God


21 posted on 03/02/2011 10:54:34 AM PST by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion

On this I agree, Mormons are no different to JW’s who believe that they can speak for God.

That being said, God has put this belief in them for a reason and this is something I struggle with.

DO we walk by them with our heads in the air like the pious priests walked past the beaten stranger on the side of the road, or..... do we help them in some small way to find the Truth that we so fervently call our own.

I think we both know the answer to this and I myself fall way short. Knowing something should be done and not is worth than not knowing at all.


22 posted on 03/02/2011 11:04:17 AM PST by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: BornToBeAmerican

“That being said, God has put this belief in them for a reason”

WHAT??? You blame heresy in false religions on GOD???

Ahhhh, maybe you should rethink who the father of lies is...


23 posted on 03/02/2011 11:34:25 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion

WHAT??? You blame heresy in false religions on GOD???

Ahhhh, maybe you should rethink who the father of lies is...


Not at all. But let me see if you can provide me with this? Show me one thing that Satan did that God did not permit or allow.

Also, you might reread the following poignant Scripture.

Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I ask this in all fairness. How can one believe on one hand that God our Father is all knowing, without beginning and without end, without whom nothing exists. Be clueless and powerless against the actions of a mere human????

I don’t get it.

Who created who?

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Perhaps it is you who needs to do a little rethinking


24 posted on 03/02/2011 6:32:19 PM PST by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: BornToBeAmerican

“Show me one thing that Satan did that God did not permit or allow.”

The fact that God ALLOWS evil a brief reign on earth is DIFFERENT that saying God CREATED it, as you did.

“I don’t get it.”

CLEARLY. Totally, on this matter.

Now, Isaiah 45:7:

“Everything that exists does so because of the creative will of God. God was not claiming that He creates moral “evil” (AV) but both well-being (Heb. shalom) and calamity (Heb. ra’). He causes bad things to happen to people for His own reasons, as well as good things, but He does not cause people to make morally evil decisions.”

[my friend Tom Constable quote]


25 posted on 03/02/2011 7:41:55 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion

I understand what you are saying and if everyone of us was dealt the exact same cards and lived the exact same circumstances, then all things being equal, so should their thinking.

But who can know why one thinks as they do? Why do they react, reason, speak as they do? Clearly, we all do not share the same moral standards of what is right and what is wrong. Looking over the whole playing field called life; are any of us identical in all we believe? I say not.

So why not? Because God did not create us to be.

To some he gave a clear heart and bad circumstances and they grew strong. Whilst others he darkened hearts but gave wealth, and they never grew to know God. Their hearts were hardened by God, something he tells us he does.

Sometimes I wonder whose hearts are hardened most


26 posted on 03/02/2011 8:52:59 PM PST by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion

The fact that God ALLOWS evil a brief reign on earth is DIFFERENT that saying God CREATED it, as you did.

Your opinion vs Gods Word. I know who I chose to believe and it is not yours


27 posted on 03/02/2011 8:54:48 PM PST by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: BornToBeAmerican

“So why not? Because God did not create us to be.”

And that is where we part ways, FRiend. Your road of belief, as expressed here, is one traveled by Manicheism, which was rightly condemned before 400 AD.

Either mormonism is true, or it is not. God did not create it. A snake oil salesman, treasure hunter and scam guy created it.

It contradicts the truth as revealed in the Bible. Mormonism and Christianity cannot BOTH be true. One makes Christ into a created spirit being who later becomes a god. Christianity says he was neither created nor made, but is eternally God. Which do you believe?

If you cannot see that, then back to the Book for you. Study to show yourself approved, a workman who knows how to handle the Word of God.

“Sometimes I wonder whose hearts are hardened most”

I sometimes wonder what they are teaching in schools and churches these days...

best,
ampu


28 posted on 03/03/2011 7:20:26 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: BornToBeAmerican

“The fact that God ALLOWS evil a brief reign on earth is DIFFERENT that saying God CREATED it, as you did.”

God does not CREATE evil. At least not the God who reveals Himself in the Bible. Perhaps one of the mormon pantheon of gods?


29 posted on 03/03/2011 7:21:49 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion

Christ instructed us to be as ‘little children’

We are told to NOT trust in our understanding. What you know, you have been given to know. Not all will reach the top of the mountain. Some will take the easy road and some will struggle all their life. God judges one’s heart and the actions the heart produces.

I never said that I believed the Mormon faith. In fact I never told you what my faith is.

FRiend, I am not the one getting out of shape or telling you to go back to the Book.

If you are so comfortable in your belief then please do not get so bent out of shape.

We are God’s children are we not? His spirit returns to him when we all die.

Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.


30 posted on 03/03/2011 9:37:41 PM PST by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion

I asked you are very simple question. Show me any place where Satan did anything that God did not want. I will make it easier.....show me in the Bible anywhere Satan disrespected God or for that matter Jesus. Satan or ANY demon.

Then ask yourself why not?

The greatest fallacy is that God is at war with Evil!


31 posted on 03/03/2011 9:44:57 PM PST by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: BornToBeAmerican; Godzilla

“I asked you are very simple question. Show me any place where Satan did anything that God did not want. I will make it easier.....show me in the Bible anywhere Satan disrespected God or for that matter Jesus. Satan or ANY demon.”

..............

When you make a truth claim, as you did, it is incumbent upon you to support that claim with facts, evidence and logic to demonstrate it is true. You have not done so.

It is not up to me to disprove your claim.

I believe your argument so far is a heresy that the Church
condemned before 400 AD.

Best,
ampu


32 posted on 03/04/2011 2:25:10 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion

Your problem, not mine FRiend.

You see, I trust in God, with all my heart and I do not lean on my own understanding. Not in the teaching of the Church.

Luk 18:16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

Very simple really, and it even gets easier to understand.

1Jo 4:20 If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

Please do not come back with: “Christ mean’t paternal brothers”

1Jo 4:21 And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

No hard feelings


33 posted on 03/04/2011 6:57:06 PM PST by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: BornToBeAmerican

BTBA,

You entered this thread, denied that mormonism is a heresy,
claimed that God created evil and claimed I hate people.

For the record:

Mormonism is a heresy. If you do not believe that there is a such thing as heresy, then you do not believe there is such a thing as truth. All truth claims are exclusionary. Two contradictory things cannot be true.

God didn’t create evil. Your non-defense of your claim is
up to you. I gave you a chance. I do not know why anyone
who presents themselves as believing the Bible would
believe a heresy from 300 BC, but there you have it. Your right to believe whatever you want.

Finally, disagreeing with something is not hate. It would seem you are guilty of what you are objecting too...

I have absolutely no ill feelings toward you at all.

best,
ampu


34 posted on 03/04/2011 8:05:19 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion
Here's the Torah version of who created evil...

Isaih 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

Satan follows the will of G-d, period...!!! magritte
35 posted on 03/04/2011 8:31:45 PM PST by magritte ("There are moments, Jeeves, when one asks oneself "Do trousers matter?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: magritte

Hi magritte! How’s my favorite Noachide sister doing these days?

I suggest that anyone who wants to understand Isaiah 45:7 should go back to Hebrew. The KJV is not accurate and leads to believing a falsehood in its translation of this passage. Study it in Hebrew.

Satan does not “follow God’s will”. Everything satan does is within God’s permissive and sovereign will. Can we agree on that, magritte?

That is very different than saying God is commanding Satan to do evil. He is not.

Blessings,
ampu


36 posted on 03/04/2011 8:49:35 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion

You wrote and I quote:

“BTBA,

You entered this thread, denied that mormonism is a heresy,
claimed that God created evil and claimed I hate people.”


Please forgive me, but I cannot find where I denied mormonism as a heresys (in fac I never said it was or was not) Likewise, I gave you a Scripture saying that God clained that he created evil or (destruction, mayhem or calamity) all which are totally opposite to love and peace.

And lastly, I never ever said or implied that you personally hate people.

I do apologize for anything I wrote to cause you think this way. But FRiend, you do not know me at all. There is only one person who knows me truly and that is God our Fathe rwho created me. Not even I can know what he knows about me.


37 posted on 03/04/2011 11:10:48 PM PST by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

Mormons’ theology is based on First Century Christianity, not Fourth Century (man-made) Creeds:

http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com

How can you say a denomination with First Century Christian beliefs is not following the Bible and Jesus’ teachings?


38 posted on 03/05/2011 7:54:53 AM PST by Bot (Mormons Are Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson