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Appendix C: The Militiamen (Real Mormon murderers in history...the Lds-approved 'list')
http://mountainmeadowsmassacre.org ^ | 2007 | Ronald W. Walker, Richard E. Turley, Jr., Glen M. Leonard

Posted on 03/02/2011 11:08:04 AM PST by Colofornian

The following is a list of men in the Iron Military District of Utah Territory’s Nauvoo Legion militia whose names have been associated with the Mountain Meadows Massacre. The names have been gathered from a variety of sources that include eyewitness accounts, arrest warrants, criminal indictments, and newspaper articles.

A completely accurate list of those who participated in or witnessed the murder of the California-bound emigrants may be impossible to compile. Many of the participants kept silent about their roles. The testimonies of many witnesses were given fifteen years or more after the massacre. Those who admitted being at the massacre were usually careful not to incriminate themselves and their closest associates.

The names are organized in alphabetical order. Each entry includes life span, as well as age, militia rank (where applicable), residence at the time of the massacre.1 Because of the varying credibility of evidence, a note of [A] or [B] has been placed after each individual’s name and age; [A] indicates there is strong evidence the individual planned, authorized, participated in, or witnessed the killing of emigrants, and [B] indicates that the evidence is inconclusive. Men whose names have been associated with the massacre have not been listed if there is little or no evidence to support that association.2

(Excerpt) Read more at mountainmeadowsmassacre.org ...


TOPICS: History; Moral Issues; Other Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: inman; lds; massacre; mormon; mountainmeadows
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The list found at the appendix includes 67 Mormon men --43 of whom they say is "strong evidence" existing for their participation...two dozen whom they say is "inconclusive." They concede the list is not comprehensive.

Additionally, murder is one of those crimes that attaches de-facto guilt to accomplices who covered up the crime. Therefore, we could probably add thousands of Mormons to the list if de-facto evidence could be entered in.

The LDS Church underwrote the research and writing for this book. One of the co-authors, Richard E. Turley, Jr., was appointed Assistant Church Historian and Recorder for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on March 12, 2008. Turley has already signed a contract for a sequel to focus on the aftermath of MMM.

Even the Salt Lake Tribune, when it first reviewed the book in May, 2007, headlined it as: Historians applaud LDS-approved book on Mountain Meadows Massacre

Yet even though this is an "inside look" @ most of those responsible for this massacre, we'll no doubt get Lds FREEPERS in this thread with their tired refrain that the piece is "anti-Mormon."

The question is if all of these names & info was so readily available to the Mormon Church 150 years after the fact, why did the Mormon church turn over only one for conviction (John D. Lee) and why was only one other ex-communicated (for a few years), only allowed to re-enter membership??? [Ya gotta know that in classic Mormonism, murder is a supposed "unforgiveable sin"...unless, of course, we're talking about Brigham Young, who had the "power" to override any doctrine and insert his own...if only for his own lifetime].

Without critically reviewing Walker, Turley & Leonard, I'm sure they've done a professional work on this book. The only thing the Mormon church probably told them from the jumpstart was to just not look very hard for any pre-massacre connections leading back to Brigham Young...or perhaps even develop a credible mopology on that.

So, of course, Brigham Young's name is conspicously missing from the list...despite the fact that Stephen A. Douglas was proclaiming from a speech less than three months before the massacre that Young was readying his militia and Native Americans to both rob and murder American citizens. See History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, vol. 3

Well, you can't expect an objective look from a corporation that has as much invested in the name of "Brigham Young."

1 posted on 03/02/2011 11:08:13 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: All
Seekers of truth,
If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the “quotation” the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were “only” quoting our own material.

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Some of them claim being some sort of special witness to you as being supposedly former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would never have an axe to grind or have reason to try to justify their actions by any means? Perhaps not but perhaps so. The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. This doesn't make them an expert on anything and you certainly won't hear them attacking their forner Church.

Frequently they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever “issue” they seem to be “revealing” or “exposing”. I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the “ahah” moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.

The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, then quote and straw man attack that. Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you, the seeker of truth out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think.

Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the “issues” brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the “you never address or answer our points” posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you? They often state that these sites provide no answer. They just don't want you looking. It is as simple as that.

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both “sides”. Make up your own mind.

(Hey PD, I'm yer Huckleberry, keep up the good work and keep those resources coming, peoples are definitely getting the truth...)

2 posted on 03/02/2011 11:30:10 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: ejonesie22

Are you saying that this evidence related to the Mountain Meadows Massacre is false? Do you have specific facts to prove your viewpoint?


4 posted on 03/02/2011 11:36:29 AM PST by NEMDF
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To: Hardraade; Colofornian

Since you made the charge please back it up with examples of Colofornian saying anything that would be classified as hateful garbage directed at mormons.


5 posted on 03/02/2011 11:41:26 AM PST by svcw (God in His own time not ours)
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To: ejonesie22

6 posted on 03/02/2011 11:42:34 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: NEMDF
No, I am just helping our our favorite totally ineffective Morg Apologist (or secret anti Mormon)...

I deal in reality myself, which has little to do with the LDS...

7 posted on 03/02/2011 11:43:30 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Godzilla; Paragon Defender
I think we don't not have anymore effective anti mormonISM material than the words of the Mormons themselves...

PD is one of our best...

8 posted on 03/02/2011 11:45:29 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22

9 posted on 03/02/2011 11:47:24 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Colofornian; All

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2653400/posts


10 posted on 03/02/2011 11:49:09 AM PST by Celtic Cross
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To: Godzilla

Oops one too many nots...

I am starting to write like Ole Joe...


11 posted on 03/02/2011 11:59:07 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Hardraade
Whats the Inquisition got to do with it?

'Some people on FR don't like Mormons so I'd like to take this opportunity to bash The Catholic Church...'

13 posted on 03/02/2011 12:02:19 PM PST by Celtic Cross
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To: Hardraade

What is the correct percentage of critical Mormon comment, since, “.. it is the main thing “?


14 posted on 03/02/2011 12:03:23 PM PST by Leisler (Our debts are someone's profit. Follow the money, the vig.....)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: Hardraade

I learn more from critics, then hagiographers.


16 posted on 03/02/2011 12:17:49 PM PST by Leisler (Our debts are someone's profit. Follow the money, the vig.....)
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To: Colofornian

This Mormon rewrite of history is as phony as the gold and treasure searches of the LDS founder, Joseph Smith, Jr. How they can possibly believe anything written by this guy is incredible . . . his planet Kolob, his sitting next to Jesus to determine who gets into Heaven, his gaggle of animals, tools, etc., that were erroneously written into the Mormon history, etc.

A sure way to Hell is to follow this madness . . . Millions of wonderful people have been and are still being led astray by this easy-to-prove false “prophet.” How sad!


17 posted on 03/02/2011 12:18:54 PM PST by laweeks
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To: Hardraade

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.


18 posted on 03/02/2011 12:28:48 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: Hardraade
How sweet of you to imply that I am an idiot. I have seen posting history and apparently you have not as you failed to post an example of anti-mormon hate.
I personally do not care if you bring up past historical crimes of Christians, I am apalled at their stupidity and depravity.
The difference here is that lds deny their past ever happened regardless of historical records.
19 posted on 03/02/2011 12:36:40 PM PST by svcw (God in His own time not ours)
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To: svcw
Being called an "idiot" by one who cannot back their claims and thinks hyperbole and insults are equivalent to actual sound arguments and supporting documentation is a badge of honor I would think...
20 posted on 03/02/2011 12:50:26 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: svcw

21 posted on 03/02/2011 1:34:13 PM PST by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: starlifter

So are you saying I should breath into a paper bag or toke on a bong?


22 posted on 03/02/2011 1:42:16 PM PST by svcw (God in His own time not ours)
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To: Colofornian; All

More obsessed anti-Mormon babblings...

Oh but PD why don’t you address the victims? Because I don’t believe for a nano-second that this post is about that at all. It’s desperation on the part of anti-Mormon activists.


23 posted on 03/02/2011 3:02:18 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: Colofornian
Without critically reviewing Walker, Turley & Leonard, I'm sure they've done a professional work on this book. The only thing the Mormon church probably told them from the jumpstart was to just not look very hard for any pre-massacre connections leading back to Brigham Young...or perhaps even develop a credible mopology [sic] on that.

Make up your mind. If the authors did "professional work" on the book, they would not have overlooked "connections" to Brigham Young. To do so would have been unprofessional.

Do you have any evidence to support your suggestion that the Mormon Church "probably" told the authors how to proceed?

Well, you can't expect an objective look from a corporation that has as much invested in the name of "Brigham Young."

You should look up the fallacy known as "poisoning the well."

24 posted on 03/02/2011 4:39:33 PM PST by Logophile
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To: Logophile

Anything to divert attention from the past devil who ran LDS inc, eh Logo?


25 posted on 03/02/2011 5:29:36 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN
Anything to divert attention from the past devil who ran LDS inc

Q.-Which one?

A.-All of them.

26 posted on 03/02/2011 6:13:17 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Of course Obama loves his country. The thing is, Sarah loves mine.)
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To: Graybeard58
Oh, I forgot.

Selah.

27 posted on 03/02/2011 6:14:14 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Of course Obama loves his country. The thing is, Sarah loves mine.)
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To: Logophile
Make up your mind. If the authors did "professional work" on the book, they would not have overlooked "connections" to Brigham Young. To do so would have been unprofessional.

Hey. If you're conducting an archaelogy dig -- or you're mining for minerals or gold. And I'm your boss. And I tell you to dig here & there & over there. And you do a 100% bang-up job on that. That's professionalism. (Even if an amateur's at work).

Likewise, if I as your boss said dig here, there & over there -- but if you find anything that looks like a "vein" leading to the one isolated spot a ways away...leave it alone. And if you leave it alone; hey, you're obeying your payroll check-writers, which is a + on your annual eval. That, too, is regarded as "professionalism" -- doing what your boss tells you to do.

Do you have any evidence to support your suggestion that the Mormon Church "probably" told the authors how to proceed?...You should look up the fallacy known as "poisoning the well."

What? You expect me to be privvy to the inner workings of a hierarchy that's not even accountable to its own members?

You should look what, say, basketball officials do. You know, if Jimmer's dad was a Utah college basketball referee, do you think he'd wind up reffin' a Cougar game? I mean, c'mon. He could be rated the best b'ball ref in the NCAA. But if his son was on the squad, they'd actually take care to remove him from any such assignments.

What makes the source even more highly suspect than normal in this particular case is the Lds Church track record of...
(a) Covering up this mass crime...
(b) Being uncooperative in bringing justice to the victims...
(c) Tearing down even Memorials on the site - as if they could wipe away the memory of their trail of victims...
(d) And basically ignoring whatever they didn't cover up for almost 150 years.

28 posted on 03/02/2011 6:19:40 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Logophile; colorcountry
What's also going to be interesting is Turley, who works for the Mormon Church, doing this sequel on the aftermath. Frankly it could be harder to prove Brigham Young's pre-massacre role -- and exactly what that was.

But you could be an 11-yo investigator & do a school report and probably find enough leads that implicated Brigham Young in a de-facto cover up.

I mean, Young WAS not only a dictator-"prophet" during the "reformation" years of 1850s Utah, but he was also territorial governor at the time this happened. While it's true he didn't remain at that post much longer after this happened, he still had the ecclesiastal authority to get people to turn themselves in.

He knew who was involved; and covered it up. He knew what remnant evidence existed -- even the fanciest horses Utah ever saw -- that were stolen...and who had control of them -- and how they were received. (I mean even receiving stolen property is a common pawn-shop crime...and was pretty easy to trace re: many of what was taken...and didn't they shoot horse thieves in the middle of the 19th century?)

In that sense, because of his sheer power, Brigham Young is at least a de facto accomplice to murder. A sin of omission is still a sin of omission: 17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. (James 4:17)

Now, tell me, Logo: How is Turley going to squirrel around that one? [Wouldn't surprise me if the book never goes to print]

How is Turley going to avoid implicating Young in ANY de-facto way if he applies James 4:17 to Brigham's behavior from mid-September, 1857 until his death???

What? Was Brigham such a weakling that he couldn't get more than one stubborn adopted "son" to confess? Or he couldn't get his people to turn over evidence?

What? Are you telling me that nobody knew what was going on? Eye-witness accounts? Second-level hearsay?

Did the Cavalry just put their fingers in the air two years after it happened, and determined that the surviving children must have been at this particular home or that? All because they had to rely upon their own info because the Mormons suddenly turned Moronic about certain September 1857 details? Did the Army just have such great pigeon-like skills that they could determine things from afar like where the children were -- details that couldn't be uncovered locally & regionally?

In fact, we'd like to see your pollyanna gullibility on parade: Go ahead, tell us...
"Why, Brigham wasn't guilty of anything after the fact...even with James 4:17 standards applied."

But that's OK, Logo...I'm sure you & I could agree in singing on the same Mormon Tubercular choir if the refrain was the following:
"We agree...
...that Tur-ley
...will conveni-ent-ly
...leave un-published
...what Young missed
...intentional-ly
...or otherwise be
...critical-ly
...linked to his hand
...Why, why render
...a late indictment vs.
...their own PR Brand?"

If Turley can't critique Brigham Young in a series of omissive steps (not to mention intentional cover-ups), then you might as well pull out the old hit, "I'm your puppet...I'm your puppet" & sing along as you read his sequel.

29 posted on 03/02/2011 6:47:30 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: svcw
Since you made the charge please back it up with examples of Colofornian saying anything that would be classified as hateful garbage directed at mormons.

Well THIS is easy; you Hateful BIGOT!

ANY MORMON writings and/or history that is NOT posted by a MORMION can be considered as such!

The mere KNOWLEDGE of things MORMON by those who are NOT Mormon; taints and ruins the words so as to make them not worthy of a response.

--MormonDude(Right; PD?)

30 posted on 03/03/2011 1:43:23 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ejonesie22

I was once called UGLY! by a toad!


31 posted on 03/03/2011 1:45:04 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Paragon Defender
More obsessed anti-Mormon babblings...

Poor ol' PD; unable to address

accurate MORMON writings except to say...

Look over THERE!!!

32 posted on 03/03/2011 1:46:47 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Logophile
You should look up the fallacy known as "poisoning the well."

"ALL of the Christian (spit) churches are apostate and abominable!"

--Joseph Smith

33 posted on 03/03/2011 1:48:41 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Paragon Defender
I just marvel at your reasoning(?). You claim this post is anti-mormon but provide no evidence to back up your claim.
You do not address the issues of the victims because you claim the post is not about victims but desperation.
How about this you show where there is anti-mormon desperation?
And you mention that the massacre was a disgusting act on the part of early mormons and condemn it, rather make excuses for it.
34 posted on 03/03/2011 3:02:40 PM PST by svcw (God in His own time not ours)
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To: svcw

lol you and your silly games. That this topic is on the board along with tons of other anti-Mormon postings by the same core group of propagandists says volumes. Just like the posts your leader puts up about criminal activity by Mormons and only Mormons.

Transparent and desperate.


35 posted on 03/03/2011 3:19:44 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: Paragon Defender

Your anti-Christian comments do get plenty old Paragon....


36 posted on 03/03/2011 3:22:03 PM PST by caww
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To: Paragon Defender
Leader?

Still you do not condemn the barbarous acts of early mormons, why is that?

37 posted on 03/03/2011 3:41:48 PM PST by svcw (God in His own time not ours)
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To: Paragon Defender
Leader?

Still you do not condemn the barbarous acts of early mormons, why is that?

38 posted on 03/03/2011 3:42:07 PM PST by svcw (God in His own time not ours)
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To: caww

Your anti-Christian comments do get plenty old Paragon....


Hello there. I have never made an Anti-Christian comment in my life.


39 posted on 03/03/2011 3:43:53 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: Paragon Defender

40 posted on 03/03/2011 3:52:27 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (.)
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To: Paragon Defender

So for you it is not the information posted it is the poster that matters, is that correct?


41 posted on 03/03/2011 4:02:03 PM PST by svcw (God in His own time not ours)
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To: Paragon Defender

When you degrade my fellow Christians that would pretty much make you ANTI-Christian IMO.


42 posted on 03/03/2011 4:32:08 PM PST by caww
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To: caww

Pointing out obsessive misguided behavior is degrading? Only if you allow it to be. Learning from the experience and moving on would be a better choice.

Perhaps I could be classified as anti-anti-Mormon propagandist but that’s about it.


43 posted on 03/03/2011 6:02:26 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: Paragon Defender

It is not ‘they’ who are misguided,....

As a fellow Christian with them I stand against the false teachings of the Mormon Institute, which cloaks itself as a religion, of which you claim association with. In doing so IMO this makes you an anti-Christian despite the fact your leadership is trying desperately to be accepted as Christian...Mormonism is not and never will be Christian...which is why the majority of the Christian community opposes your leaderships plight to assimulate into the Christian faith. Mormonism is recognized as NOT Christian for obvious reasons to those who are Christians.


44 posted on 03/03/2011 6:17:56 PM PST by caww
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To: caww

It is not ‘they’ who are misguided,....


Sorry we’ll just have to disagree.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is Jesus Christ’s Church restored to earth in these latter days. By definition it is the “most Christian” of all denominations.


45 posted on 03/03/2011 6:41:17 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: Paragon Defender
Oh that is hysterical...the Christian Church has never needed restoration...Christ Jesus was it's head and remains so to do this day...and will be so in the future.

The Mormon Institution desperately wants to be included as Christian...but that will just not happen no matter how often they call lay claim to Christianity. It's about as bad as when Islam claims to have similar beliefs in Christ that we do...they say it but they are a far cry from even remotely on the same page. So to with Mormonism.

46 posted on 03/03/2011 6:47:12 PM PST by caww
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To: caww
Well you have to remember, the Mormon god and his separate other god son “Jesus” were only human, so the fact they lacked the competence to keep a church intact for more than a few decades is not surprising.
47 posted on 03/03/2011 7:48:30 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Paragon Defender
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is Jesus Christ’s Church restored to earth in these latter days. By definition it is the “most Christian” of all denominations.

LOL...

Way to go, that was awesome...

Of course you may want to refer to the LDS manual updates that have come down with the new “We are Christian just like you” campaign...

I think claiming to be “most Christian” runs a little counter to the current Corporate focus...

(Another hint, this may be a bit o' a clue to why the LDS lost the caucus thanks to you. Claiming to be Christian was bad enough,to be the "most Christian", well it is hard to be more offensive to actual Christians than that...)

48 posted on 03/03/2011 7:57:46 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Paragon Defender

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is Jesus Christ’s Church restored to earth in these latter days.”

Prove it. As always, you make huge claims in your posts,
but fail to ever provide objective facts, evidence or logical argument to support your claims.

The following links make it clear as to why your claim
is false in every way, using objective facts, evidence
and logic.

Many mormons who are leaving the church have found great
insight and been exposed to things the official lds links
don’t cover.

http://www.irr.org/mit/default.html

http://www.exmormonsforjesus.org/

http://4mormon.org/ex-mormon.php

http://www.exmormon.org/

http://www.mormoncurtain.com/


49 posted on 03/03/2011 8:38:48 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (.)
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To: ejonesie22

Such an assult on Christ... and they are so very blinded by Mormonism teaching and indoctrination they simply cannot see the truth, further many do not want to!.... And yet it’s abundantly clear to any Christian who simply checks out the surface of their institution and practices that it’s a bunch of hocus pocus baloney designed to make insecure people think they are significant.

I Praise God that all our sufficiency is in Him alone...and that He is our all in all. What a Savior!...who sets of free!....Mormonism binds and destroys the very freedom from regulations and hard taskmasters which Christ delivered us from...and steals their money while it’s happening!


50 posted on 03/03/2011 8:42:24 PM PST by caww
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