Posted on 03/10/2011 3:04:23 PM PST by Paragon Defender
Elder Spencer V. Jones
Of the Seventy
Spencer V. Jones, "Overcoming the Stench of Sin", Ensign, May 2003, 88–89
Our loving Heavenly Father, … knowing that you and I would all sin and become unclean, provided a cleansing process from sin that … actually does work.
Every decision we make, good or bad, carries an accompanying consequence.
I grew up in what some of you might call a boring farming community: Virden, New Mexico, population 135. One summer night when I was a boy, my cousins, some friends, and I were looking for ways to create some excitement. Someone suggested we play a harmless prank on a neighbor. My conscience whispered it was wrong, but I didn’t have the courage to resist the enthusiastic response of the group.
After performing our mischievous act, we sprinted down the dark country road to make our escape, laughing and congratulating ourselves as we ran. Suddenly, one of the group stumbled, crying out, “Oh no, I kicked a cat!” Almost instantly we felt a very fine mist settle over us. It carried a horrible odor. What my friend thought was a cat was actually a skunk. It had sprayed us in self-defense. Very few odors are as nauseating as skunk spray, and we smelled terrible.
Dejectedly, we went home in search of a little parental comfort for our pitiful plight. As we stepped inside the kitchen door, Mom took one sniff and shooed us out into the yard. We were cast out of our home. Then she launched the cleansing process. She burned our clothes. Then, it seemed that every home remedy or concoction in the community was volunteered in our behalf. Among them, we endured a variety of baths: first tomato juice, then cow’s milk, and even harsh homemade lye soap. But the stench remained. Even my dad’s powerful aftershave lotion could not overpower the stench. For days we were condemned to eat outside under a tree, sleep outdoors in a tent, and ride in the back of the pickup truck.
After a while, naively thinking the smell was gone, we tried to approach some normal-smelling girls. They would not allow us within yards, shattering our fragile teenage egos!
Now, I must admit that being sprayed by a skunk is not a common consequence of sin. Most consequences are not as immediate or dramatic. But sooner or later, for all sin, a consequence will be paid.
At times, consequences of sin may appear to be very subtle to the sinner. We may even convince ourselves, as we did before approaching the girls, that no one will be able to detect our sins and that they are well concealed. But always to our Heavenly Father and often to spiritually sensitive leaders, parents, and friends, our sins are glaringly apparent.
While attending a youth fireside with Elder Richard G. Scott, I noticed five youths scattered among the congregation whose countenances or body language almost screamed that something was spiritually amiss in their lives. After the meeting, when I mentioned the five youths to Elder Scott, he simply replied, “There were eight.”
Isaiah prophesied, “Their countenance doth witness against them, and doth declare their sin to be even as Sodom, and they cannot hide it” (2 Ne. 13:9; see also Isa. 3:9).
God has declared, “He that sinneth and repenteth not shall be cast out” (D&C 42:28). Just as my cousins and I were “cast out” of our earthly home as a consequence of our prank, we will be cast out of our Heavenly Father’s home if we do not repent.
“When we undertake to cover our sins,” as I tried to do with my dad’s aftershave lotion, “the heavens withdraw themselves; [and] the Spirit of the Lord is grieved” (D&C 121:37). We lose our spiritual gifts. The Lord has declared, “He that repents not, from him shall be taken even the light which he has received” (D&C 1:33).
Each one of us has the Light of Christ, or a conscience. It constantly prompts us to choose good. Good choices yield good consequences. On the other hand, delaying repentance and continuing to commit sin is like continuing to kick the skunk. The stench will become stronger with each sin, alienating us further and further from God and those we love. Soon we could become like Laman and Lemuel, who, after continually making bad choices, became “past feeling” and could no longer feel the still small voice (see 1 Ne. 17:45).
If I had responded to my conscience when it first whispered that the prank was wrong, I would have avoided the whole stinking ordeal.
Through Nephi, the Savior taught that “no unclean thing can dwell with God; wherefore, ye must be cast off forever” (1 Ne. 10:21).
But our loving Heavenly Father, with a foreknowledge of our frailties, and knowing that you and I would all sin and become unclean, provided a cleansing process from sin that—unlike tomato juice, milk, and lye soap—actually does work.
He sent a Savior, His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to atone for our sins (see Alma 22:14).
In the Garden of Gethsemane, as Christ demonstrated perfect obedience, His anguish caused Him, “even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:18). Then He allowed Himself to be “lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world” (1 Ne. 11:33).
“He suffered the pain of all men, that all men might repent and come unto him. … And how great is his joy in the soul that repenteth!” (D&C 18:11, 13).
The Savior has indicated how to know “if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them” (D&C 58:43). Then comes the miraculous promise, “Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow” (Isa. 1:18).
If the Spirit is pricking your heart to correct something in your life, know this: your soul is precious. Heavenly Father wants you to be part of His eternal family.
I lovingly plead, “Do not procrastinate the day of your repentance” (Alma 34:33). Start the process now. Remove the stench of sin with the remedy of repentance. Then, through the Atonement, the Savior can wash you clean. I so testify in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
OK. Let's see what Brigham Young had to say.......
“The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy.” (Journal of Discourse, Volume 11, Page 269, 1866) Brigham Young
Adam is God: “Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! About whom holy men have written and spoken—HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later.” (Journal of Discourse, Volume 1, Page 50, 1852, and The Millennial Star, Volume 15, Page 769)
Jesus said in Matthew 22:30 "30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." Either you believe Brigham Young or Jesus. You can't have it both ways.
Joseph Smith denies the divinity of God.
“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens…I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form — like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man….it is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and will take away and do away the veil, so that you may see….and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3).
.
The bible warns us of false prophets.
Galatians 1:6-9
No Other Gospel
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
“I would suggest that you study what we actually say about our doctrines, and not rely on what others may say about us.”
Sorry Logo. I have and do read what MORMONS say about MORMONISM.
So your premise is wrong. Everything I said stands. Show me the quotes, as I requested, or drop the pretense of mormonism agreeing with Christians.
PS - Is this the same Millet that tells people to avoid the truth and “lie for the Lord?”
You refer in the quote to the mormon heresy of what it means
to “become one” in John 17. As usual, it is just enough truth to sound accurate. It fails to hold up under examination.
The problem for guys like you is that you “enter the room”
with a Giant Curelom following you - a huge assumption - and
then you see it in the room and assume it was always there.
It followed you in boss.
If you start with the Bible, and read the context, you won’t come up with “becoming a god”, since Christ specifies what He means.
The context is very clear. Here it is...
Jesus prayed first that the Holy God the Father would “keep them in Your Name” (loyal to God) - the ultimate end of which would be unity among the 12 Apostles Christ was praying for specifically.
In verse 12, Jesus goes on to say to the Father that He (Jesus) had kept them loyal to God while He was with them (with the exception of Judas so that scripture could be fulfilled).
In 17:21, Christ extends his prayer for the 11 remaining Apostles to be extended to all believers with the purpose that the world would know by their mutual love and unity that they are Christ’s disciples. [don’t miss that - it is an explantion of the oneness Christ is praying for the 11 and for all believers for all times].
Verse 22 that speaks again of this oneness is defined more fully in verse 23 as unity and love for each other - just as the Father and Son love each other.
22 “The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;
23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
blessings to you,
ampu
Ok PD "lite", let me ask you a couple of questions so that we understand clearly what your statements mean exactly.
When you state "...what we actually say...", just who, exactly, are you referring to when you say "we"? Who is this "we" you are speaking of? The church, an average mormon, missionaries, who? I just want to know where the goal posts are.
Also, is it your contention/assertion that folks here are not being truthful when they state affirmatively that they have read and studied LdS doctrine when you imply that folks are posting hearsay?
If so, please post examples that prove that point. I'd be really interested in seeing them.
If you cannot, I would suggest that you are implying folks are being untruthful, hence, liars.
Let me inform you up front, I am an apostate ex-mormon who lived the doctrine quite intensely for some years. I did so with pure intent and left of my own accord due to some very conflicting and disturbing revelations about the doctrine, teachings and theology.
Yet mormonism required that man ‘repent’ (mormon definition - cease all sin) of their sin BEFORE the grace offered by Jesus’ death can be put to effect. Mormonism requires man to become perfect by their own works before Jesus can save them.
Look it up in your ‘references’ PD. If man can do it on his own - there was no need for Jesus to die.
Take to heart the fact that games is all they have. Pretty much answers the question. Anyone with an answer that they are proud of and can support will always give it willingly.
Oh, I promise He has and in wonderful ways. Talk to these folks who used to be caught up in it and escaped by God's grace. There are others, many others.
So if I ask to look like Jennifer Aniston, I'm in, eh? That's a much less ambitious plea than to ask to be a god.
It seems your argument is with the Bible, not with me.
We have a good God.
Of course I am. In fact, it is found in the first paragraph at the link I provided earlier (Post #36). For the benefit of those who do not know what we are talking about, here is what Lorenzo Snow said:
As man now is, God once was;
As God now is, man may be.
How do you reconcile that satanic notion that a man may become a god with all of the many verses in the Old Testament that clearly state there is only 1 God:
“there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
“Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
“Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
“See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
“You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You” 2 Samuel 7:22
“For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?” 2 Samuel 22:32
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
“You are the God, You alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth.” 2 Kings 19:15
“O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You” 1 Chronicles 17:20
“You alone [bad] are Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God” Psalm 18:31
“You alone [bad], Lord, are God.” Isaiah 37:20
“Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10
“‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.” Isaiah 44:6
“Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.” Isaiah 44:8
“I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.” Isaiah 45:5
“Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God.” Isaiah 45:14
“I am Yahweh, and there is none else.” Isaiah 45:18
“Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me.” Isaiah 45:21
“I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me” Isaiah 46:9
”It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation …“ (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670)
There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190)"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins" ... (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155)
Nothing like having your “prophet” insert himself before Christ in the path to heaven...
“Most Christian” indeed...
satan lied to Eve - you too can be god
satan lied to Joseph Smith - you too can be god
Joseph Smith lied to everyone - you too can be god if you do what I say
I joyfully second that :-)
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