Posted on 03/12/2011 11:25:57 AM PST by Amerisrael
ARAD, Israel - For the past seven years, the small Messianic Jewish community in the southern Israeli town of Arad has been harassed and persecuted by ultra-Orthodox Jews who accuse them of missionary activity.
The small desert town, with a population of 25,000 mostly secular residents, is home to a growing number of Israeli believers.
Yakim Figueras, pastor of one of the four congregations there, told CBN News that for years, religious Jews have subjected the believing community to sometimes daily cursing and harassment outside their homes.
"They come with either half-truths against us or complete lies…and they entice their own people and try to bring others against us," Figueras said.
On Wednesday, a demonstration organized by Yad L'achim, the aggressive anti-missionary organization, brought about 200 protesters to the home of Polly Sigulim. Their message was clear.
See also: http://roshpinaproject.com/2011/03/11/report-on-anti-messianic-jewish-demo-in-arad/
Yad L'Achim Advises Chinese on Cult Fighting http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/130012
[how better to oppress followers of Yeshua/Jesus]
(Excerpt) Read more at cbn.com ...
“They were looking for a *Warrior* from GOD who would free them from Roman Opression, they were not looking for a Messiah that brought love...”
1) Jesus never represented himself as a Messiah, so the idea that Jews rejected him as such is historically inaccurate.
2) Jews know little of the Messiah, only that the arrival will cause certain things to happen. None happened.
3) Ascribing Jews an anti-love, warrior seeking agenda is rather strange and doesn’t fit anything in the Talmud regarding Messiach prophecies.
4) Your concept of Orthodox Jews cowering in fear of bible thumping evangelism is offensive as can be to all sides. Orthodox Jews aren’t particularly fond of secularism or Islamism, or Buddhism either. is that testament to the love of Jesus that you think fear is a covert sign of respect and awe? Seriously? This again mimics the tone Muslims speak of Muhammed. Just saying.
Uh.... Jews never believed Moses was the Messiah.
The problem here is anyone who thinks they know what Judaism is based on King James version of it.
It’s puzzling why anyone quoting the Bible would chose to deny that Exodus 23:31, Genesis 15:18-21, Numbers 34:1-15, Ezekiel 47:13-20 all speak of Israel and land, and borders.
Judaism itself did not consist of a uniform set of beliefs.
Rather, there were several major religious parties such as the Sadducees and the Pharisees, both mentioned in the New Testament, and the Essenes, whose teachings were later unearthed by the Qumran discoveries.
These three groups existed simultaneously in Palestine. Although the Sadducees were the descendants of the priests and controlled the Temple, the Pharisees had the greatest influence among the Jewish people.
Josephus describes how the Pharisees and the Sadducees debated the concepts of fate, free will, and other issues over which they were at odds. Doctrinal differences were the order of the day in ancient Palestine.
In addition, the Jews living in other parts of the Roman Empire were influenced by Gnostic philosophies.
Gnostic ideas were introduced in the Mediterranean lands in the first century B.C. Because of the Gnostic appeal to reason and secret knowledge, Hellenistic Jews felt they could accept these new ideas without being disloyal to the law of Moses. Thus, a variety of religious ideas and doctrines was freely circulating within Judaism.
Jesus taught the Samaritan woman that “salvation is of the Jews.” He dispatched His disciples to the lost sheep of the house of Israel...
After Christ’s resurrection, His disciples continued to remain within the fold of Judaism. The small community of believers was later called a sect by the Jews (Acts 24:5, 28:22), but it was still purely Jewish. Although their teachings were highly unpopular, day after day Christians went to the Temple to worship and to preach the Gospel (Acts 2:46-47, 3:1, 5:20).
The Jews in power seem to have tolerated their teachings until Christians began to attract large numbers of converts, including priests. The Temple officers, who were Sadducees, wanted to kill the apostles not for their abrogation of Judaism but because they were stirring people up over the death of Christ.
“The first Christians are Jews without exception. For them this is not simply a fact, but a part of their conscious conviction. For them their faith is not a new religion which leads them away from the Jewish religion” (History of Primitive Christianity,,,,)
Rather, the Christians are both ethnic and spiritual Jews. Jesus is the Messiah, and the church is the true Israel.
What I see harmonium is that Jesus Christ was born a Jew to a Jewish woman, he said salvation has come through the Jews and if you follow his teachings than you are a *Spiritual Jew*
So if one is born an ethnic Jew as Messianic Jews are and they are following the teachings of Jesus how is it they cannot be a ethnic or SPiritual Jew, when even the Pharisees never accused Jesus of being an *Apostate Jew*?
This is why I think the Ultra Orthodox Jews have fear of Jews that believe the exact Same way the Jews did in Ancient Israel...
Can you see that?
Then you either think Jesus was a Jewish Wizard or at some point you will see him as he truly is the Messiah of Israel, because what he said would happen in the future of the world has come to fruition......
Are these things happening or not?
MATTHEW 24:
Matthew 24
Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple- *HAPPENED*
1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. (FALSE PROPHETS RUNNING AMOK TODAY)
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[a]these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. HAPPENING
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences,[b] and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. HAPPENING
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. HAPPENING
11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
HAPPENING..
12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. HAPPENING....
13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. HAPPENING...
The Great Tribulation-
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.
18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.
21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it[d] is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
No One Knows the Day or Hour
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[e] but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[f] your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
I indicated this in a previous post. Though I can’t what year- It was when Christianity started converting pagans to Christianity. THey no longer were Jews entering the fold. Once that happened and they rejected the obligation of Jewish law, they were done.
Perhaps what Jews “fear” the most from evangelicals is that they will write extraordinarily long emails based only partly in Biblical reality and the rest in translation which bears little similarity to the original Hebrew. Then they define the terms in a Christian context and say “don’t you see?” WHen will you accpet”- as if they know the one and only legitimate path to the divine.
Don’t try to parse Biblical test unless you are doing it in Hebrew. Every translator is a liar.
You know there is nothing about a virgin birth in the Bible, right?.....
I agree with you to an extent....
When they took the actual words of grace and salvation to the gentile world, and it morphed into a complete other religion then yes it lost it’s Jewish following as they knew it...However the Jewish Law had been fullfilled with Jesus Christ...
This was discussed heavily in the Book of Acts, do gentiles need to be circumcised,do they honor the sabbath, do they eat kosher etc...
Law vs. Grace...That is the dis-connect...
Yes I know about the Virgin translation in *Hebrew* and yes
I know that translation can be a problem in many scripture contexts....
However as the other poster stated Orthodox Judaism does not go into any detail, about what to look for when the Messiah comes...I have read what Judaism sees as fullfillment of certain qualifications that will determine the Messiah of Israel, but as I have asked before, how long does that individual have to complete his mission?
There is nothing in the Torah nor Talmud that gives a time frame how long the time is needed for Messiah to complete his work..
Yes I know about the Virgin translation in *Hebrew* and yes
I know that translation can be a problem in many scripture contexts....
However as the other poster stated Orthodox Judaism does not go into any detail, about what to look for when the Messiah comes...I have read what Judaism sees as fullfillment of certain qualifications that will determine the Messiah of Israel, but as I have asked before, how long does that individual have to complete his mission?
There is nothing in the Torah nor Talmud that gives a time frame how long the time is needed for Messiah to complete his work..
“Judaism itself did not consist of a uniform set of beliefs.”
You have no idea how ignorant that statement is, do you?
Judaism is defined by set beliefs, prayers, tenets and observances that unite ALL religious Jews. This has always been true.
“Messianic Jews” do NOT subscribe to the same set of beliefs, prayers, tenets or observances no matter what their ethnicity.
"Christian Zionists are incredible support, so it’s sad when people like this validate the fears some Jews have about their motives."Christian Zionism is a relatively new thing, a little more than 100 years old and it has manifested mostly in America. The rest of the world's Christian thought is much closer to what circlecity says as it has been for the last 2000 years. You can't just discount the cultural history of millenia and its implication. The best thing that we and Christians can do here is agree to disagree and move on, if possible. In the end our paths are separate, in spite of whatever common purpose we may currently share.
“However the Jewish Law had been fullfilled with Jesus Christ...”
You fundamentally do not understand what Jewish law means. Simply put, Jewish laws are the code of ethics, and procedures for living as a Jew. It’s not something you can achieve like the eastern religions concept of enlightenment, it’s a way of life.
Furthermore, if you think you’re saying Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, that too is ludicrous, because Jesus didn’t do any of the things promised with the arrival of the Messiah. None of them. At all.
“There is nothing in the Torah nor Talmud that gives a time frame how long the time is needed for Messiah to complete his work..”
False. The Talmudic sages believed it would be with the arrival of the Messiah, and generations would be reunited, and so on.
Not all Jews eat Kosher
Not all Jews honor the Sabbath
Not all Jews honor every law of Torah..
So I am not sure where you are going..Human Beings all to some extent live by Jewish Law ie: The Ten Commandments...
Again where does it say the Messiah has to complete his mission in the lifespan of a human being, which is proably between 70 and 80 years...
“In the end our paths are separate, in spite of whatever common purpose we may currently share.”
Sorry but if you’re not talking about coexistence, and allowing different people to be different, then that type of dogma is much like what we oppose Muslims for doing. If a Muslim started throwing Koranic verses to promote their vision of Jesus in a similar fashion, it would be offensive.
Any negativity towards Jews and their beliefs is beyond counter productive, and it’s fair to say, Jesus would not approve.
What about the Essenes?
TaraP - I’m not sure how you as a non-Jew can be critical of how Jews do or do not observe their religion.
Who the hell are you to infringe your judgements?
Meanwhile, here’s what Jews believe will happen right upon the return of the Messiah.... :
The whole world will worship the One God of Israel, Isaiah 2:11-17
The Messiah will be descended from King David, Isaiah 11:1
Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership, Isaiah 11:4
Death will be swallowed up forever, Isaiah 25:8
The ruined cities of Israel will be restored, Ezekiel 16:55
The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness, Isaiah 51:11
All of the dead will rise again, Isaiah 26:19
Why would Jews think Jesus brought them any of that?
I harbor absoloutly no negative feelings twoards anyone, no matter what race, religion or creed anyone is....
As far as being offended, I am not offended and I hear some of the most vile things from other’s about GOD, Christians, Jews from the most angry atheists I converse with on another forum...I have been pre-warned about all this hate from my belief in Christ...
John 15:18-21
“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you... If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you... because they do not know Him who sent Me.”
My point was that Israeli or Messianic Jews have a right to
be Jews in Israel and be respected by the Orthodox Rabbi’s
because they are only practicing a belief that was permitted by the very first *Christians* (Jews) who believed in Jesus Christ...Jesus Christ was a Jew , he never practiced another religion or endorsed a Pagan belief to the Jews and even the Pharisees never said he was an *Apostate Jew* Jesus taught the temple priests about GOD before he began his final ministry...
Jesus was a well versed Torah Observant Jew that never defiled the word of the Almighty.
You tell me...what about the Essenes? What is it that makes you embrace the groups who splintered off and started their own thing above the actual Jews who continued their original traditions?
Oh, right...You dispute that Jews ever had a unified religion, and like an Islamic extremist you chose dispute the validity of Jews based on modern day observance trends. I’ll just say it at this point, there’s a mildly antisemitic tone coming out in your posts.
Sorry but if you’re not talking about coexistence, and allowing different people to be different, then that type of dogma is much like what we oppose Muslims for doing. If a Muslim started throwing Koranic verses to promote their vision of Jesus in a similar fashion, it would be offensive.I think you are thoroughly confusing European Enlightment ideas and the Jewish Tradition here. The Jewish Tradition was never about "allowing different people to be different". It is about following the written and oral Torah and it specifically includes COMMANDMENTS to possess and inhabit the Land of Israel and drive out (that means EXPEL) all "strange worshippers" as well as Jewish apostates, out, from the land of Israel and from any Jewish community. Sounds harsh? You bet. You are trying to reconcile irreconcilable things here and miserably failing because of that.
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