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Ultra-Orthodox Jews Harass Israeli Believers
CBN ^

Posted on 03/12/2011 11:25:57 AM PST by Amerisrael

ARAD, Israel - For the past seven years, the small Messianic Jewish community in the southern Israeli town of Arad has been harassed and persecuted by ultra-Orthodox Jews who accuse them of missionary activity.

The small desert town, with a population of 25,000 mostly secular residents, is home to a growing number of Israeli believers.

Yakim Figueras, pastor of one of the four congregations there, told CBN News that for years, religious Jews have subjected the believing community to sometimes daily cursing and harassment outside their homes.

"They come with either half-truths against us or complete lies…and they entice their own people and try to bring others against us," Figueras said.

On Wednesday, a demonstration organized by Yad L'achim, the aggressive anti-missionary organization, brought about 200 protesters to the home of Polly Sigulim. Their message was clear.

See also: http://roshpinaproject.com/2011/03/11/report-on-anti-messianic-jewish-demo-in-arad/

Yad L'Achim Advises Chinese on Cult Fighting http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/130012

[how better to oppress followers of Yeshua/Jesus]

(Excerpt) Read more at cbn.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: israel; jews; messianics; persecution
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To: TaraP

“So you think *Mere Men* have the right to say who is a Jew?”

You’re calling Talmudic sages, and Biblical prophets “Mere Men” as if to denigrate.

Well...Jesus had no religious authority to Jews, and and the Jewish perspective is and always has been, that Christ was as you say, a “mere man”. The ethnicity of a George Soros, or a Jew for Jesus is trivial.


151 posted on 03/13/2011 9:43:38 PM PDT by harmonium
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To: JadeEmperor

JadeEmperor - If your case is that Jews want to expel all non-Jews (which you said), then you have no case... just hate filled rhetoric best suited for Leftist crackpot sites.


152 posted on 03/13/2011 9:45:18 PM PDT by harmonium
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To: jjotto
Christianity is not Judaism with a Messiah, it’s a completely different religion with a completely different understanding of God and indeed of creation.

Yes indeed. I will add that the harder they push their proselytizing, the harder the push-back they are going to get. They need to come to grips with that.

B'H

153 posted on 03/13/2011 9:45:44 PM PDT by papabrody (Proud member of the International Jewish Conspiracy)
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To: harmonium

NO..What the Muslim terrorists do to the Jewish people are Disgusting and offensive..

What the Liberals, Atheists, and Secularists say about Israel and giving Jerusalem to the Palestinians is offensive and disgusting

I just dis-agree with you about Scripture and the Ancient World in Israel, if you can’t be grown up enough to talk to other’s that dis-agree with you, maybe the *Religion Forum* is a bit to much for you to handle....


154 posted on 03/13/2011 9:49:36 PM PDT by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: harmonium

They are *Mere Men* when it comes to the *Almighty* I AM WHO I AM..I worship GOD not man.........


155 posted on 03/13/2011 9:51:22 PM PDT by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

Say what? Don’t Jews believe their Scriptures or the Commandments they follow originated from the almighty...?

Check yourself.


156 posted on 03/13/2011 9:56:29 PM PDT by harmonium
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To: harmonium

AH..No offense to you...However you have beliefs that come from Man not GOD, case in point who is a *Jew*

In the Tanakh and the gospels it identifies the gentiles/pagans and the jews....

I have never read anything saying that the Saul/Paul was not a Jew nor Matthew, nor Mark, nor Stephen nor Peter nor John...were (Apostate Jews*) that does not come from the Creator...

Commandments and traditions come from Organized Religion not GOD and his relationship with mankind....

Israel has a right to say who by ethnicity is a Jew and can make Alyaih..sp? however I do not think the Orthodox Rabbi’s have a right to harrass Messianic Jews and tell them they are not Jews, IMO that is IMMORAL...


157 posted on 03/13/2011 10:06:59 PM PDT by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

Not all Jews observe the law properly or at all. That is not relevant because we are obligated to do so. That human beings do not always do what we are obligated to do is obvious.

You think that Jesus came to fulfill the law. That’s your religion and your saying it doesn’t make it so.

Why do you feel the need to be so pushy about your set of truths?


158 posted on 03/14/2011 3:56:23 AM PDT by tkas (Conservative mom)
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To: TaraP

If you think it is wrong for “mere men” to decide who is a Jew, I will point out to you that is exactly what you are trying to do.

Doesn’t matter if you like it or agree with it, Jewish laws says that Christians/messianics are not Jews. The end.

Some don’t like to concept of matrilineal descent. It is painful. There are ways around it, called conversion.


159 posted on 03/14/2011 4:02:21 AM PDT by tkas (Conservative mom)
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To: TaraP

“AH..No offense to you...However you have beliefs that come from Man not GOD, case in point who is a *Jew*”

You are in effect bashing the New Testament as well....which by the way was written by man, and not Jesus, or God.

If you don’t believe God spoke unto to Abraham, and Moses, and the rest, that’s fine... but that debunks Christianity too.

Your posts aren’t just grossly anti-Jewish but self defeating, and anti-Christian, considering where your first 5 books of scripture originate from. For a follower of Jesus to bash the credibility of the Jewish Covenant crosses the line. Doing so to perpetrate a fraud against Jews, and challenge mainstream Judaism, is unacceptable.

See the problem isn’t that you have a different view of scriptures (in which case, you would just be didactic and intolerant) or that you have a different view of ancient history (in which case you wouldn’t need to invalidate or discredit standard Judaic beliefs, or redefine Judaism for your own agenda).... the problem is something deeper and more prejudice.


160 posted on 03/14/2011 7:35:17 AM PDT by harmonium
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To: TaraP

“Commandments and traditions come from Organized Religion not GOD and his relationship with mankind....”

So you don’t believe in the Bible or share beliefs with Jesus

You don’t believe Moses was given Commandments, or the Torah originated from God’s word.

Fair enough. I had a feeling you weren’t actually Christian.


161 posted on 03/14/2011 7:47:35 AM PDT by harmonium
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To: harmonium

Don’t be absoloutly ridiculous in miscombobolating my words...I am not Anti-Scripture, GOD, Jesus Christ, Abraham, Moses, Judaism and Christianity....

I said *Organized Religion* enact traditions and rituals that are man made..They are not directly GOD breathed inspired commandments...

The Holy Bible is a GOD inspired book for when it was written for all generations to seek the Wisdom of GOD..

What I was saying to you, is that you seem to believe that all the Talmudic sages were enacting direct commandments from GOD, I dis-agree..

I believe GOD spoke to Abraham and gave him a *Promise* of things to come for the Jewish Nation...

I believe that GOD spoke to Moses and gave him the Laws for Israel..

I believe that Jesus Christ fulfilled the law (As bringing the gentile nations into GOD’s family) salvation and grace

I believe Jesus Christ will complete his mission in the Second Coming when all nations come agaisnt Israel (The Battle of Armageddon) and fullfill GOD’s everlasting promises to the prophets and Israel....

Amazing you think people who dis-agree with you are some kind of demonic heathen...

Check yourself....


162 posted on 03/14/2011 11:19:21 AM PDT by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

It’s dawned on me that you’re unlearned, so I’ll explain...

The Commandments were collected and reinterpreted in the Talmud, but they originate in the Torah, and were handed down to the Prophets directly through God. I repeat - Jews believe every Commandment can be sourced back to the Torah and is God’s word. That is the source.

To clarify, since you have probably never seen an actual Talmud, it has a number of lists and discussions between scholars providing their opinons and, sometimes merely ideas, in the shared common purpose of understanding God’s Word (Torah) fully and from all possibilities, irrespective of how unlikely.

Rambam didn’t invent Jewish Commandments when he collected his list of 613 Commandments (all of which are sourced in the Torah). It’s simply a lie to say these Commandments were an invention of organized religion. The Talmud only clarified, and pondered the depth of their meaning and practical ways in which Jews could adhere to them.

Rejecting the idea that Judaic Commandments are Toranic as you have, is a rejection of the Bible... the same bible adapted and expanded by Christians. Therefore, you are rejecting many basic concepts of Christianity too. To each their own, but it makes you anti-Scripture.

Now once a Jew ascribes to non-Jewish beliefs, he/she has set themselves apart from the Jewish community (gone beyond “the fence of Torah”). They may be descended from Jews but are no longer of the Jews. However, they can return to the faith of their ancestors anytime, the door is left open, and they do not even need go through conversion when they return.

Th legacy of the feuding sects like the Sadducees, Pharisees, Scirri, Zealots, Essenes, etc. is handled by the Talmud, and a tradition to question, evolve, and study Jewish ideas even today under Pharisaic Judaism. You see, Judaism has no fixed doctrine, or anything like an Apostle’s Creed, and it allows one to pick and chose beliefs within a very small set framework - Jewish tenets.

BUT — There are beliefs that define a Jew and beliefs that are not Jewish....and you’re unqualified to determine the difference.

Fact: Christian doctrine (Jesus as God’s progeny, as God, Trinity, original sin, the Law as a curse, etc.) is antithetical to Jewish beliefs and knowledge of God’s Teachings in Torah. Jews understand this. Jews cannot be Christians or vice versa, based on their respective beliefs. But all are God’s Children, and can be equally righteous.

“The righteous among ALL the nations of the earth have a share in the world-to-come.”
—Tosefta Sanhedrin 13:2

Comparatively, Christian doctrine teaches that unless one believes as a Christian, one will be cursed to Hell:
“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of G-d’s one and only Son.”
—John 3:18 [also Mark 6:16]

Mind you, that your personal sick armagedon fantasy voiced in your last post belongs to it’s own brand of fundamentalist Christianity... much like your rejection of the 5 books of Moses.

You’re through here, wether or not you know it.


163 posted on 03/14/2011 12:26:52 PM PDT by harmonium
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To: harmonium
"If your case is that Jews want to expel all non-Jews (which you said), then you have no case... just hate filled rhetoric best suited for Leftist crackpot sites."
I am sorry that I came across like that. I do not wish to anger or insult you or anyone else. Please accept my apologies.
164 posted on 03/14/2011 12:46:55 PM PDT by JadeEmperor
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