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THE CONCLUSION ON HAROLD CAMPING'S 2011 PREDICTION
PeaceByJesus ^ | 3-19-2011 | PeaceByJesus

Posted on 03/19/2011 5:54:58 PM PDT by daniel1212

The CONCLUSION on CAMPING and his 2011 PREDICTION

we have not followed cunningly devised fables” (2Pt. 1:16)

THE BIBLE GUARANTEES you do not need to heed a false prophet:

"But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die [by stoning in the O.T.). And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." (Dt 18:20-22)

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Mt. 24:36)

Overview

Harold Egbert Camping (born July 19, 1921) is the leader of an anti-church movement which engages in imaginative, esoteric eschatology (doctrine of the end times), and denies established Scriptural doctrines. He has already falsely claimed the world would end in 1994, but undeterred, he went on to

predict that the removal of all true believers from the earth — an event in the Bible known as the “rapture” (1Cor. 15; 1Thes. 4:4-17; 2Thes. 2:1) — will take place on May 21, 2011, followed by the destruction of the earth on Oct. 21, 2011.

Like many other false prophets before him, Camping invokes* the promise of Amos 3:7, that “the Lord GOD will do nothing, but He revealeth his secret unto His servants the prophets,” inferring that Camping is one, even if he denies he formally is one, and he states that the Bible guarantees his prediction.

While Camping claims to hold Scripture as the supreme authority for doctrine, yet, consistent with most “cults,” he misappropriates its authority, rejecting established truths and relegating all other visible churches as apostate, while fostering faith in himself and Family Radio as the uniquely correct interpreter of the Bible, and disparaging listening to church pastors. *(http://www.familyradio.com/graphical/literature/judgment/judgment.html)

This rejection of all other churches is based upon Camping's conclusion that the church age, together with its clergy, and ordinances such as baptism and the Lord's supper, has ceased due to its failures and Camping's contruance of numbers in the Bible. He thus holds that it is impossible to be saved while remaining therein.

Instead of belonging to the visible church, those who wish to be saved are instructed to gather in groups and listen to him and Family Radio, which overall refuses to air ministries associated with the local, visible church.

In contrast to Christians who are in local churches, Camping's congregation who spread his message are likened by him to the 144,000 virgin male Jews of the book of Revelation. But in this case rather than following Christ, the Lamb of God, they are following Camping, the logos of deception.

History and Doctrine

In 1958 Camping was a member of the Christian Reformed Church and a construction company owner who invested in a number of radio stations. He later became the president of Family Radio Inc. In 1988 Camping left the Christian Reformed Church, and joined a local fellowship in Alameda, Ca. which he would also later leave

In 1970, Camping dated the Creation of the world to the year 11,013 BC and the Flood to 4990 BC. In 1992, Camping published his 551 page book “1994(?)” in which he states that Adam and Eve were born in the year 11,013 B.C., and that total years of Biblical history was 13,000-years. And that the devil was unbound in 1988, (p. 512) which was to be followed by a 23-year tribulation. However, Camping's believed God decided to cut the tribulation short, and Camping calculated that the return of Christ would likely take place on September 6, 1994, with 2011 being a fall back date, and declared that true Christians must leave their churches and listen to Family Radio.

Before making his latest prediction, Camping stated, “At the beginning of this study I said that during the last twenty years I have answered the question concerning the end of the world with the statement. ‘I will be very surprised if we reach the year 2000 A.D.’ After having done this study I now say equally carefully, ‘I will be surprised if we reach October 1, 1994.’

By God’s mercy there are a few months left. However, if this study is accurate, and I believe with all my heart that it is, there will be no extensions in time. There will be no time for second guessing. When September 6, 1994, arrives, no one else can become saved.” (The end has come.” — 1994?, Harold Camping, p. 533)

Camping also stated, “There is no time left to trust your pastor or your church. You must trust only the Bible.” But since all who do not concur with Camping are damned, what he really means is trust him to interpret the Bible. (The end has come.” — 1994?, Harold Camping, p. 534)

When his 1994 expectation failed, Camping went on, with his grandfatherly voice, to make his present prediction, becoming increasingly imaginative and deviant in his eschatology and doctrine.

In 2001 Camping continued to teach, “this is the end of the church age,” and that “through Family Radio we can have this kind of fellowship,” and thus stated that “the gospel has never been sent out with more purity than it is being sent out now.” (cf. Open Forum, July 11,12, 2001)

Having dismissed the pastoral leadership which the New Testament places over the church, (Acts 20:28) Camping also rejected such commands as to baptize and observe the Lord's supper: “...the New Testament commands concerned with the ceremonial laws of water baptism and the Lord's Supper which should be obeyed within the churches and congregations until He comes can no longer be obeyed because God has brought judgment upon the institution of the church. Thus, God has effectively ended the possibility of the observance of the New Testament ceremonial laws of water baptism and the Lord's Supper.” (The End Of The Church Age And After, Chapter 13, page 232)

Camping did not stop there, but teaches that “the Holy Spirit is no longer working in the church” and thus “no one can become saved as the result of the preaching in that church.” (The End Of The Church Age And After, Chapter 8, page 107)

Having now rejected the full nature of the church, and transcendent commands given it, and sound rules of interpretation, Camping also went on to reject the eternal punishment of the wicked, imagining instead that text such as 2Thes. 1:8,9; Mt. 13:42,50; 25:41,46;Rev. 14:11; 20:10 refer to annihilation!

Methodology

Camping stated in an interview, "Because I was an engineer, I was very interested in the numbers," he said. "I'd wonder, 'Why did God put this number in, or that number in?' It was not a question of unbelief, it was a question of, 'There must be a reason for it.'" (San Francisco Chronicle, Jan. 1, 2010)

There is an obvious literal reason for dates and numbers in the Bible, with its extensive genealogies and historical records, and a few numbers can also have also denote things (such as 7 representing completeness), while only in a minority of times do they have prophetic significance, such as in Dan. 8:14. And self-evident rules of hermeneutics (Biblical interpretation) and the manner in which the Bible interprets itself limit these to what the context, etc. support. However, Camping has demonstrated that almost “any-digit-can-do,” a hermeneutic by which he can “prove” most anything he needs in order to fit his eschatological construct, in one may see a prophetic significance in every closet.

Many examples of Camping's numerology can be given, but one is what he extrapolates out of Jn. 21:1-14 in his book, “1994?.” The Lord had told His disciples, who were about 200 cubits out in the Sea of Galilee, to throw their net on the right side of the boat, resulting in a catch of 153 fish. Camping takes that to mean that the 200 cubits repre­sent about 2,000 years between the first and second comings of Christ. (p. 503) Now as Camping believes that the most likely date for the birth of Christ is October 4, 7 B.C. when the Jubilee Trumpet allegedly sounded (p. 418), then he only needed to add 2,000 years, minus one year for the year 0, to get 1994. As for the 153 fish, Camping finds that 153 equals 3 times 3 times 17, and that “The number three signifies the purpose of God whereas the number seventeen sig­nifies heaven. Thus we can learn that [the] purpose of God is to bring all believers that are caught’ by the Gospel into heaven p. 503,504).

As CRI also points out,

Camping’s book is also characterized by inconsistency. According to Camping, the seventy sevens of Daniel 9 are literal years, except for the last three and one-half. He calculates the years precisely up to the point of the death of Christ, which he says occurred in A.D. 33.He then turns around and says the last three and one-half years equal 2,000 years.

Camping takes a page to explain the subtitle “The Prerogative of God to Use Numbers as He Desires” (p. 403). This should be amended to say that it is the prerogative of Harold Camping to use numbers as he desires...(http://www.equip.org/articles/harold-camping-1994)

Biblical teaching on the church

Jesus Christ established the church in the New Testament, and promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it, (Mt. 16:18) because it was founded upon Christ, the sure foundation of the church. (Mat. 21:42; Mk.12:10-11;

Lk. 20:17-18; Acts 4:11; Rm. 9:33; 1Cor. 3:11; 10:4; Eph. 2:20; 1Pet. 2:4-8; 1Jn. 5:5; cf. Lk. 6:48; cf. Dt. 32:4, Is. 28:16) And which is made up of born again believers (1Cor. 12:13; Eph. 1:13) who overcome by faith in Him, (1Jn. 5:5), and are led by pastors who are to oversee the church, (Eph. 4:11; 1Pt. 5:1) and who are to be obeyed. (Heb. 13:17)

In addition, the church is given transcendent ordinances and practices such as baptism, (Mt. 28:19; Acts 2:38) the Lord's supper, (Lk. 22:19,20; 1Cor. 11:23-26) corporate discipline, (Mt. 18:15-17; 1Cor. 5:4); collections, (2Cor. 8:ff; 9:1ff); anointing and healing of the sick, (Ja. 5:14,15) and ordination, (Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5-7; Heb. 6:1) etc.

While Camping rejects baptism, the Lord told those that He commanded to baptize that he would be with them to the end of the world. (Mt. 28:18-20) In addition, the Lord's supper, another ordinance that Camping's “church” rejects as for today, is a remembrance until He returns, (1Cor. 11:26) while anointing of the sick and ordination specifically calls for elders.

And the church is revealed in the New Testament as a body consisting of believers with different gifts and offices, (1Cor. 12:4-11,28; Eph. 4:11) including deacons, (1Tim. 4:8) and is overseen by pastors, (Act 20:28; 1Pt. 5:1-14) these being elders/bishops. (Acts 20:17; Titus 1:5-7) Biblical obedience to the latter is required. (Heb. 13:17)

While the church is essentially a spiritual body, into which believers enter upon conversion, (1Cor. 12:13) there is no such thing as a world-wide invisible church without any visible local expression, to which God gave pastors, etc. so that they would not be deceived! (Eph. 4:11,14)

Camping also teaches that local churches no longer preach salvation by grace alone, in which it only occurs when God chooses to save a person (versus a person choosing to “accepting” Christ), as well as the rise of “signs and wonders” teaching, which he says adds things to God’s Word, in opposition to Rv. 22:18-19.

However, multitudes of local churches teach that God elects a person and makes him born again so that he can repent and believe, or that regeneration occurs as a consequence of believing, but that no one can come to the Lord Jesus unless the Father draws them, and enables and moves such to do what they normally would not, with both holding that justification is by faith, not by any moral merit of works.

As for miraculous signs and wonders, one need not believe God still does such in order to be saved, though regeneration itself is a miracle, but the fact is that we would not have a Bible or Christianity if God not done what Camping now forbids, (Jn. 5:36; 14:11; Heb. 2:3) and that such things are not adding to the canon of Scripture, but are a fulfillment of it, (Mk. 16:20) and are subject to testing by the Scriptures, as is preaching “the word.”

In so testing Camping and Family Radio by the Scriptures, we see that by him teaching that the Bible guarantees his prediction, it is Camping who is essentially doing what he charges the local church with, while he subtracts from Scripture things it commands, which are to be kept until He returns.

In addition to his doctrinal aberrations, Camping's extreme, esoteric eschatology follows the doomed trajectory of others, such as William Miller and Ellen White (SDA) or the so-called “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” who presumed to know the exact date of the Lord's return, and failed in every attempt, as the Lord stated that day was not revealed. (Mt. 24:36) (Camping makes plans for future business on earth: “Time has an end.)

Many of the very Scriptures which Camping contorts to conform to his end-time construct were written to local churches, including the Thessalonians and Corinthians, which believers would be taken in the rapture if it had occurred. (1Cor. 15; 2Thes. 2) While an overall falling away will take place before that Day, the Biblical church with its local, pastored, baptizing bodies will endure, while those who deny this are actually part of the great falling away!

Now and not just May 22 is the time to “forsake the foolish and live” in obedience to Christ, versus the heretic Camping and his “cunningly devised fables.”

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To download the above as a ''8.5x11'' 3 column brochure, download PDF HERE. To print in most printers, first choose to print only side 1, and simply then pick up the last end of the paper that was printed and place it back into the paper slot, the blank side facing you, and then print side 2.

To fold, place the beginning of the message side down facing you so that the beginning (“The END of HAROLD CAMPING's..”) is under your left hand, and fold up and over just inside the last column line on the top. Make sure it is even. Then rotate the paper to the right, and fold the “Methodology” column under the beginning column and hard up against into crease. Note that use of space is maximized, and rather than doing more formatting now, space is really tight.

FRemail me if you have any excerpts of referenced material from Camping that further documents his errors.

Short interview with Camping here




TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Charismatic Christian; Current Events; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: camping; christianity; conspiracy; eschatology; freemasonry; may21
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A Christian brother recently asked me to comments on a lot of the material he heard from Camping, and the above is simply a short response for a brochure i made by the grace of God.

If you see were this needs improvements say so, and referenced excerpts of material from Camping that further documents his errors are welcome. --------------------- Much more could be added, but suffice to add that major doctrines have major substantiation, and Camping's teachings, such as the unmentioned momentous event of the cessation of elders over the flock, and ordinances as the Lord's supper no longer being practiced, with no organized visible church  having the Holy Spirit - in contrast to a few devotees listening to the prince of this prophecy on the air -  require such an extrapolation or "wresting" of scriptures as to rival the Watchtower Society.  His eccentric eisegesis (reading into Scripture) alone is a classic example of autocratic allegorical interpretation, and is contrary to how any established life giving doctrines are derived, but follows the pattern that like eccentrics such as William Miller exampled, but whom Camping makes look sober. 

In addition, the very idea that such a major salvific doctrine would require his esoteric eschatology and numerological contortions is an insult to the Holy Spirit. 

He attempts to draw a parallel with God no longer working with Israel (though this curse will be reversed) but the ending of their stewardship and the establishment of the church was well attested to by scripture and miracles, both of which Camping does violence to.

The authority of Moses or the Lord or any apostle, which authority Camping basically presumes in  leading a new anti-ecclesiastical movement whose authority is effectively him,  was not due to them promoting in cultic numerology, but by scriptural conformity and complementarity in life and doctrine, with powerful Divine attestation, which overcame the devil's attempts to do likewise.

Come May 22, with Camping's autocratic, adaptable any-digit-will-do Armageddon esisgesis, then we can expect May 22 will met with reworked calculations, as he is the latest eschatology edition of aberrant apocalyptic authors who deceive the heart of the simple.

Though the truth anyone uses to contrive errors can itself be used for good, and i have far to go in holiness and faith, yet with the Christian faith under attack as never before in recent history, king Harold is much serving the serpent in this regard . "Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." (Acts 20:30)

1 posted on 03/19/2011 5:55:02 PM PDT by daniel1212
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To: Quix; RnMomof7; smvoice; metmom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; ...

Thought some of you might be interested..


2 posted on 03/19/2011 6:12:36 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: daniel1212

Just think if the world ended in 1994 we would of missed our GOP first take over of both houses of congress since 1952.


3 posted on 03/19/2011 6:13:40 PM PDT by bilhosty (Don' t tax people tax newsprint)
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To: daniel1212

Honestly? I don’t think you need to give this Camping fellow one bit of attention. The weak minded may follow him, but they wouldn’t listen to logical arguments otherwise because they’re not capable of critical thought.


4 posted on 03/19/2011 6:17:15 PM PDT by ChocChipCookie
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To: daniel1212

I listen to him a lot on Family Radio via shortwave


5 posted on 03/19/2011 6:21:35 PM PDT by tsowellfan
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To: ChocChipCookie

Well, i do understand, but he has a LOT of workers which make up in commitment what they lack in discernment. And which i think is an increasingly phenomenon, resulting from an antipathy to authority and or a misguided quest for a better form of Christianity in the face of a increasing spiritual declension, but which can indicate a relationship with God which is not strong enough to transcend shortcomings the church.


6 posted on 03/19/2011 6:28:26 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: tsowellfan

Do you believe in his May 21st prediction?


7 posted on 03/19/2011 6:30:33 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: ChocChipCookie
The weak minded may follow him,

What happens to these weak minded people on May 22nd?
8 posted on 03/19/2011 6:32:42 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

I disbelieve anyone setting a date. We’re to know the season but not the day nor the hour.


9 posted on 03/19/2011 6:35:21 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: daniel1212

THX TONS.

His nonsense needs slapped down hard.

Thx.


10 posted on 03/19/2011 6:38:27 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: daniel1212

I’ve known of him all my life. When I was a boy in North Jersey in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s, my mom would listen to WFME (Family Radio). As a Assemblies of God preacher’s kid, I listened to Camping come on the radio as well as when my dad would go down to the station and Camping would have him on and they would debate (Camping vs. my dad). I realized early on that although Family Radio had some good (read Biblically sound) programming and songs (many of the theatre plays - forgot the name of the show where a story was told) - I knew that Camping was off his rocker, doctrinally speaking.


11 posted on 03/19/2011 6:41:09 PM PDT by time4good
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To: RegulatorCountry

This guy is so far off base. It’s hard to imagine some one so deceived.


12 posted on 03/19/2011 6:46:47 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: daniel1212

Family Radio stations play the best Christian music on the radio—except for the few that carry the Old Fashioned Revival Hour. However, when Camping comes on and starts talking, I change stations.


13 posted on 03/19/2011 6:47:48 PM PDT by Rufii
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To: time4good

Thanks for the info. He has only gotten more extreme, with a hermeneutic that knows little restraint. But king Harold is one thing, yet perhaps most disturbing is the degree and dedication of his disciples.


14 posted on 03/19/2011 6:49:56 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: presently no screen name

People fall into it again and again. What is it that leads them astray so, hubris? I don’t get it. We’re told specifically that we won’t know what he purports to know.


15 posted on 03/19/2011 6:52:58 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: presently no screen name

That’s Camping’s problem.


16 posted on 03/19/2011 6:58:37 PM PDT by ChocChipCookie
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To: ChocChipCookie

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. “ (Matthew 23:15)

But Christians are to help those who are deceived by both moral or doctrinal sin,

“Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. “ (Galatians 6:1)


17 posted on 03/19/2011 7:07:55 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: bilhosty; ChocChipCookie; presently no screen name; time4good; Rufii; RegulatorCountry

Jamews White does a good job on exposing what is going on: http://thebloviatinghammerhead.wordpress.com/2011/01/04/fool-me-twice-shame-on-you-harold-camping-and-his-suckers/ (second video)


18 posted on 03/19/2011 7:14:29 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: RegulatorCountry
I don’t get it.

Me neither. I never heard of this guy before all of this - who knows, maybe it's all about making a name for himself. Satan is good at using one's pride to accomplish his goal to deceive.
19 posted on 03/19/2011 7:18:25 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: daniel1212

Sometimes Christians are among the most gullible people on earth.


20 posted on 03/19/2011 7:19:31 PM PDT by ChocChipCookie
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To: daniel1212

Point-by-point refutations are a waste of time with a whackjob like Camping. Any Christian with more than a passing knowledge of Scripture will ignore him as the nutcase he is, and no amount of logic will change the mind of someone who is gullible enough to follow him.


21 posted on 03/19/2011 7:30:35 PM PDT by Terabitten ("Don't retreat. RELOAD!!" -Sarah Palin)
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To: presently no screen name; Terabitten

He is actually quite notorious, and devoutly followed by too many, and I am bewildered why. Likely coming to a city near you.


22 posted on 03/19/2011 7:42:57 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: daniel1212

Are you telling us that if May 21st passes without incident, Harold Camping is going to get stoned? (Pun intended). I thought he ALREADY WAS stoned when he made the prediction a while back. Oh well!


23 posted on 03/19/2011 7:49:36 PM PDT by Tucker39
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To: daniel1212
devoutly followed by too many, and I am bewildered why.... Likely coming to a city near you.

Does anyone know how big his cult following is? Since they are in front of their radio, I can't imagine anyone does know. I'm sure he's as near as my radio but never came across him.
24 posted on 03/19/2011 7:59:15 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Tucker39

You would think. But claiming to speak for God’s authority in such a way is a capital crime, and as seen in Jer 20 and 28, God can execute such sovereignly. May we all walk in the fear of the Lord.


25 posted on 03/19/2011 8:02:59 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: presently no screen name

I am blessed to be part of a small faith tract (etc) ministry, and though i am mostly here, the reports are that Camping’s crusaders are quite active. Which is why i put together the tract.


26 posted on 03/19/2011 8:09:38 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: presently no screen name

Some of his followers will give up on God, thinking everything is a hoax. But many will still believe in Camping. He will anounce a new revelation/calculation and his followers will eagerly accept this and forget his old predictions. You see, when people have invested in a false idea, it is hard for some to admit that they were fooled. So they will loudly proclaim whatever Camping’s next prediction becomes.

There is this mindset with millennial cults. They think they have God’s secrets all figured out because they are so smart and spiritual. The cult leader tells his followers they are special because they follow him and they know God’s secrets. You are an insider, you are not only one of the elect - you are one of the elite! Some people eat this up.


27 posted on 03/19/2011 8:11:42 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: presently no screen name; daniel1212
“Does anyone know how big his cult following is?”

I was going to ask the same thing. I don't recall ever hearing of him.

28 posted on 03/19/2011 8:14:25 PM PDT by WorldviewDad (following God instead of culture)
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To: daniel1212

Ok. I heard some of his clips from the link you provided..Fool me once... Besides being nuts and a charlatan, his voice is annoying.


29 posted on 03/19/2011 8:22:20 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Wilhelm Tell
Some of his followers will give up on God, thinking everything is a hoax

That is my concern.

You are an insider, you are not only one of the elect - you are one of the elite! Some people eat this up.

Feeding their pride.
30 posted on 03/19/2011 8:26:31 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: WorldviewDad

See Daniel’s post 26.


31 posted on 03/19/2011 8:32:48 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: daniel1212
He is actually quite notorious, and devoutly followed by too many, and I am bewildered why.

I listen to his station for the music. Family Radio plays only traditional Christian hymns and gospel songs and eschews the "praise music" found everywhere else. But when it comes to theology, I hold to my Methodist beliefs.

32 posted on 03/19/2011 8:38:33 PM PDT by Rufii
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To: presently no screen name

A commonality of most cults, in the sense that their particular group alone has validity, under one leader or office to whom they give a implicit loyalty as a type of Christ, versus Mk. 9:39,40


33 posted on 03/19/2011 8:45:08 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: daniel1212

Thanks for the heads up.

I think I’ve heard of Family Radio. I’ll have to look into it more and see if mr. mm knows any more about it.


34 posted on 03/19/2011 8:45:32 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: daniel1212
In 1988 Camping left the Christian Reformed Church, and joined a local fellowship in Alameda, Ca. which he would also later leave

I posted this link in another thread: "JUDGMENT DAY, MAY 21, 2011? - HAROLD CAMPING & The UNTOLD STORY ". It has some information about the circumstances of Campings departure from the CRC. It's worth a read.

It looks like his date for the "end of the church age" is very coincidently the same or close to the date of his removal as a teacher in the Alameda Christian Reformed Church.

Pride and bitterness had so overcome Camping that he was able to declare that upon the year of his censure and departure from the church, God was done with the entire church, and from that time forward, God would only work in the “true believers” who were willing to take the stand with Camping and come out of the church. This is a severe warning of what can happen to those who reject the elders who rule with the authority of Christ. Over forty percent of the Alameda CRC, many of whom were employed by Family Radio, “went out” from the church and subsequently started their own “fellowship”.

...

In a scheme that rivals C.I. Scofield’s dispensationalism, Camping’s teachings are again inflicting fear and confusion upon many in the church. If anyone is to be saved, declares Camping, he must be saved “outside” the church since God has rejected anyone “identified with any church”.[7] What became of the ordinances of the church? Camping declared that since the church age ended and people were to leave the churches, the sacraments were also to be discontinued—an astonishing claim since the church is commanded to observe them until Christ comes (1 Cor. 11:26). Since Camping has of late rejected the doctrine of hell, anyone who does not repent by rejecting the church will simply be annihilated. The date Camping has set for the final judgment of the world is May 21, 2011.

Bad eschatology has consequences.

35 posted on 03/19/2011 8:46:18 PM PDT by Lee N. Field (Bad eschatology has consequences.)
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To: presently no screen name
What happens to these weak minded people on May 22nd?

With history as a guide, some might go back to normal churches, many will bail out entirely, some will believe a recalibrated model and soldier on.

Campingite signs I've seen pictures of say "it begins May 21, 2011". They've got an out.

36 posted on 03/19/2011 8:50:29 PM PDT by Lee N. Field (Bad eschatology has consequences.)
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To: presently no screen name

I remember being in a public place and overhearing a millennial enthusiast “witness” to someone. He said, excitedly, “Obama is the AntiChrist!” (he quickly rattled a chapter and verse Hezekiah 3:14 or whatever) then he said with confidence and ecstacy, “New York City is Babylon (another chapter and verse) and it will be destroyed in a nuclear explosion and it will happen this year!” I looked over at him and he seemed like he was beside himself with joy. This was, I think, two years ago.

That is what happens when some people who call themselves Christians get caught up in date setting and idle speculation. They don’t talk much about Christ. Instead they “witness” about some numerology trick they came up with or the latest revelation from their T.V. preacher.


37 posted on 03/19/2011 8:53:32 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: Lee N. Field
Campingite signs I've seen pictures of say "it begins May 21, 2011". They've got an out.

Interesting but only for five months they have an out because followed by the destruction of the earth on Oct. 21, 2011.

Is that what they call themselves "Campingites"?
38 posted on 03/19/2011 9:02:58 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name
A lot can happen in five months.
Is that what they call themselves "Campingites"?

I don't know what they call themselves. Anyone know?

39 posted on 03/19/2011 9:08:06 PM PDT by Lee N. Field (Bad eschatology has consequences.)
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To: daniel1212

Harold’s camping and making predictions? Nice life if you can get it!


40 posted on 03/19/2011 9:10:04 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Wilhelm Tell
New York City is Babylon

"And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning, “What city was like the great city?” -- the first thing I thought when I saw the clouds of smoke from the World Trade Center.

That is what happens when some people who call themselves Christians get caught up in date setting and idle speculation. They don’t talk much about Christ.

I've noticed that.

41 posted on 03/19/2011 9:15:25 PM PDT by Lee N. Field (Bad eschatology has consequences.)
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To: Wilhelm Tell
That is what happens when some people who call themselves Christians get caught up in date setting and idle speculation.

I haven't met any who does that and it would be a sure sign that aren't Christian since God's Word speaks clearly on such activities.

Instead they “witness” about some numerology trick they came up with or the latest revelation from their T.V. preacher.

I would think it could come from anyone who doesn't believe God's Word is the Final Authority. Deception is rampant and this Camping date setting thing is only one facet of it, IMO.
42 posted on 03/19/2011 9:21:54 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Lee N. Field
I don't know what they call themselves

Sorry, I asked if that was their name because of this Campingite signs I've seen pictures. Never mind, it doesn't matter - cultists is good enough.
43 posted on 03/19/2011 10:33:30 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: metmom; daniel1212
I think I’ve heard of Family Radio. I’ll have to look into it more and see if mr. mm knows any more about it.

We got a Family Dollar here, are they related? ;o)

44 posted on 03/19/2011 10:46:01 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: Wilhelm Tell
(he quickly rattled a chapter and verse Hezekiah 3:14 or whatever)

Hezekiah 3:14 - I love it!!! There actually ARE some people that will leaf through their Bibles looking for that! ;o)

45 posted on 03/19/2011 10:50:30 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: presently no screen name
Actually, I'm looking in April for the Rapture based on another bit of reasoning.

This is a learning process. I now see things more clearly, and think the Rapture will probably be on Wed., April 6, 2011, the anniversary of the Crucifixion of the son of David, Jesus Christ, on April 6.

> > When the first ripe figs are ready and the vines are blossoming the Lord says arise and come away. This would be occurring in late spring around the first of June.

But it might be in early spring, April instead of June. If it is the time of the Olynthos figs, it will be in early spring instead of late spring.

Look at what I found out about the Olynthos figs. They ripen in the early spring, which starts March 21.

"The fig-tree of Palestine (Ficus carica) produces two and sometimes three crops of figs in a year, (1) the bikkurah, or "early-ripe fig" (Micah 7:1; Isa. 28:4; Hos. 9:10, R.V.), which is ripe about the end of June, dropping off as soon as it is ripe (Nah. 3:12); (2) the kermus, or "summer fig," then begins to be formed, and is ripe about August; and (3) the pag (plural "green figs," Cant. 2:13; Gr. OLYNTHOS, Rev. 6:13, "the untimely fig"), or "winter fig," which ripens in sheltered spots IN SPRING."

(http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/dictionaries/dict_meaning.php?source=1&wid=T0001329)

Christ may come on Nisan 1, but the Rapture could take place at daybreak on Nisan 2, April 6, 2011, the anniversary of the Crucifixion on April 6, 30 AD.

CLUES

De 11:14 says, "I will give you the rain of your land IN HIS DUE SEASON, the first rain (Tishri 1, First Advent) and the latter rain" (Nisan 1, Second Advent).

Jer 5:24 says, "Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, IN HIS SEASON".

Isa 28:4-6 speaks of the "HASTY FRUIT BEFORE THE SUMMER; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up. IN THAT DAY shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people, And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate."

James 5:7 says, "Be patient therefore, brethren (believers), unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive THE EARLY (Tishri 1) and LATTER RAIN" (Nisan 1).

THE MAJOR CLUE

Hosea 6:3 says that the Lord will come as the morning (i.e., daybreak) and as the former (yoreh, first rain, i.e., Tishri 1) and latter rain (Nisan 1). It says, "Then shall we KNOW, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared AS THE MORNING (shachar, daybreak); and he (the dayspring from on high, Luke 1:78) shall come unto us AS THE RAIN, AS THE LATTER (malqosh, last rain) AND FORMER (yoreh, first) RAIN unto the earth."

The winter rains start on Tishri 1 and end on Nisan 1. A few days ago, I thought the Rapture would be on Nisan 1, April 5, 2011. However, today, I see that Song of Solomon 2:11's "RAIN IS OVER AND GONE" suggests Nisan 2, which falls on Wednesday, April 6 this year, the anniversary of the Crucifixion on April 6, 30 AD. That sounds like something the Lord would plan to do.

I forgot that the Marriage of the Lamb has to be on the first day of Christ's millennial rule. I think that is the day of the Last-Trump Rapture, the great and terrible Day of the Lord and the Day of God's Wrath, Tishri 1, 5776, Monday, Sept 14, 2015.

Of the first day of Christ's millennial reign, Rev 19:6,7 says, "And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent REIGNETH. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for THE MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB IS COME, and his wife hath made herself ready."

MAJOR EVENTS COMING AS THE FIRST RAIN, TISHRI 1

1. First Advent: Tishri 1, 3756, Sept 4, 5 BC The sign of Rev 12:1 was in the sky that night. Virgo was clothed with the Sun and the Moon was at her feet. 2. Second Rapture: Tishri 1, 5776, Sept 14, 2015

MAJOR EVENTS COMING AS THE LAST RAIN, NISAN 1

1. Second Advent: Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016, first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee years. 2. First Rapture: To me, it looks like the Lord will come on Tue., Nisan 1, 5771, April 5, 2011, and take the Bride of Christ home at day break on Wed., Nisan 2, April 6, the anniversary of the Crucifixion.

You gave me the last clue I needed to be able to see where the Rapture fit best. Until now, I didn't know about the Olynthos figs, the early figs of spring.

THE SECRET OF THE STAIRS (LIKE JACOB'S LADDER, THESE REACH FROM EARTH TO HEAVEN)

Song of Solomon (Canticles) 2:10-17 says, "My beloved (Christ) spake, and said unto me, RISE UP, my love, my fair one, and COME AWAY. For, lo, the winter is past (spring started March 21), the rain (of Nisan 1) is OVER AND GONE (i.e., it's Nisan 2, April 6, 2011, anniversary of the Crucifixion); The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come (it's spring), and the voice of the turtle (lit., turtledove, which arrives in Israel in APRIL and leaves in October) is heard in our land; The fig tree putteth forth her GREEN FIGS (Olynthos figs IN APRIL), and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell (i.e., the grapes are blossoming and setting fruit). ARISE, MY LOVE, MY FAIR ONE, AND COME AWAY (IN THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE). O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock (i.e., in Christ, our rock; 1Cor 10:4), in THE SECRET places (omit the italicized 'places,' it isn't in the Hebrew) OF THE STAIRS, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely. Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes. My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies. UNTIL THE DAY BREAK, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains (plural) of Bether" (separation, i.e., there are two Raptures).

Song 6:2 says, "My beloved (i.e., Jesus) is gone down into his garden, to the beds of spices, to feed in the gardens, and TO GATHER LILIES."

FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE AT DAYBREAK

When the rain of Nisan 1 is "over and gone", it looks like the Lord will pick us up at day break on Nisan 2, the anniversary of the Crucifixion, April 6, 2011.

Micah 7:1,2 says, "Woe is me! for I am as when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage (i.e., after Tishri 1, time of the 2nd Rapture, has passed): there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the firstripe fruit (i.e., in the spring). The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men". They were all caught up on Nisan 1 in the 1st Rapture or on Tishri 1 in the 2nd Rapture.

Hag 2:18,19 says, "Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (Kislev 24), even from the day that the foundation of the LORD'S temple (Jesus) was laid (was conceived), consider it (lit. take it to heart). Is the seed yet in the barn? (a saying meaning is she pregnant) yea (YES, Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24), as yet the vine (Christ), and the fig tree (Israel), and the pomegranate, and the olive tree (with Gentiles grafted in), hath not brought forth: from this day (Kislev 24) will I bless you."

In John 4:35, Jesus said, "Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest."

The four months seem to be Teveth, Shevat, Adar 1 and Adar 2, because this is a leap year. The next day is Nisan 1. The trumpet was to be blown on all feast days and on the first day of each month. So the trumpet will sound on Nisan 1. Then it looks like we will be caught up to Heaven at the following daybreak.

I would appreciate knowing your thoughts on this. Agape

46 posted on 03/20/2011 12:29:10 AM PDT by STD (War is Deceit - from the koran-Hussein)
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To: presently no screen name

I’m pulling for April 6th, the anniversity of His trip to Golgotha and the Cross! see my previous comment above. Get ready folks, it won’t be long.


47 posted on 03/20/2011 12:31:48 AM PDT by STD (War is Deceit - from the koran-Hussein)
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To: STD
Actually, I'm looking in April for the Rapture based on another bit of reasoning. This is a learning process. I now see things more clearly,

Wait - before I start reading this - who is this from? Camping? Or someone else with date setting? I'm really not interested in reading something from someone who openly defies God's Word.
48 posted on 03/20/2011 12:48:17 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: STD
I’m pulling for April 6th

Oh, it's you that's doing the date setting. Sorry, my Source says otherwise..'...no man knows'. G'night.
49 posted on 03/20/2011 12:53:44 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Lee N. Field

Thanks muchly. I have amended* the article slightly is recognition of this, which is common among cults, “intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind.” (Col. 2:18)

*”By 1970, Camping had dated the Creation of the world to the year 11,013 BC and the Flood to 4990 BC. and in 1988 Camping left the Christian Reformed Church in Alameda, CA., apparently after being barred from teaching. (see here + Christian Renewal Magazine, April 6) Soon after Camping would teach that the Holy Spirit had rejected the local, visible, established church that rejected Camping”.


50 posted on 03/20/2011 6:00:31 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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