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The Church Fathers-Mary: Without Sin
The Church Fathers ^ | 70AD-584AD

Posted on 04/14/2011 9:21:51 AM PDT by marshmallow

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To: RoadGumby

“Mary needed the Savior as much as anyone.”

And she knew it. Luke 1:47-50 “And my spirit has rejoiced in God MY SAVIOR.” If she were without sin, she wouldn’t have needed a Savior.

The Bible never says that Mary was anything but an ordinary person. She was good, and God used her in a special way. Nobody in the Bible, including Jesus, worshipped Mary. Only Elizabeth praised her, but only because she was carrying Jesus — not because Mary herself was holier than anyone else.

After Mary prayed with other Christians in Acts 1, she isn’t mentioned again. The apostles didn’t single her out as being special or prominent. Her death isn’t recorded in the Bible. She didn’t ascent to Heaven, and there’s no mention of her having an special place there.

As for praying to/through her, that is specifically taboo in the Bible, as is all idolatry.


401 posted on 04/18/2011 7:23:35 AM PDT by MayflowerMadam
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To: johngrace

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm


402 posted on 04/18/2011 7:24:56 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: conservativegramma

Welcome

to

The Vatican Alice In Wonderland School Of Theology and Reality Mangling.


403 posted on 04/18/2011 7:26:25 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: MayflowerMadam

YUP.


404 posted on 04/18/2011 7:27:34 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: johngrace
but only in our own righteous deeds (done) after the grace of God

First of all, you believe 'man' john/chrysostom before you believe God? Certainly sounds like the catholic way. If God says one thing 'without works' and surer than anything, the Vatican/RCC will say the opposite.

The Grace of the Almighty God, the Alpha and Omega, is NOT enough that one needs their filthy rags to obtain salvation? Do you think one has a major pride issue - thinking anything they have is worthy of salvation?

Someone would have to tell you that because no one person would believe that on their own. Especially with the next breathe - they tell us how humble they are!!

Who fell because of pride? You might want to check - that catholic teaching came from the same place.
405 posted on 04/18/2011 7:50:25 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!


406 posted on 04/18/2011 7:54:33 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: presently no screen name

You can credibly criticize Catholic teaching just as soon as you produce an explicit scriptural explanation for why Matthew 18:19 doesn’t work for you.


407 posted on 04/18/2011 8:06:15 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: presently no screen name
"...Do you think one has a major pride issue..."

I think someone who thinks, "I am saved. I'm going to heaven. My reservation is guaranteed" would be very likely to be affected by pride - and to develop a feeling of disdain for those who are unsaved.

A priest I know of was once asked by a Baptist minister, "Brother are you saved?" The priest replied, "Brother, I'll know if I get there!"

408 posted on 04/18/2011 10:22:47 AM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Celtic Cross
I think someone who thinks, "I am saved. I'm going to heaven. My reservation is guaranteed" would be very likely to be affected by pride - and to develop a feeling of disdain for those who are unsaved.

Spoken like a Catholic!! You guys never disappoint but always show the lack of knowledge of God's Word. Thank your church for that.

Develop a feeling of disdain? You are projecting - from what I have witnessed it's catholics who have disdain with those who are saved and blesssed. Why aren't catholics saved? Who are they going to blame that they aren't saved? What's stopping them? "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons.."

It's one of these - 'you can't have what I don't have'. CONTROL. And then it proceeds into INTIMIDATION - I'll call you prideful! Like words and tactics count. LOL! I'm saved and walk in his blessings daily and there is nothing you can do or say to change that. Seems like jealousy from catholics of God's own children who are saved and blessed. That's the price believers of man-made teachings/doctrine have to pay.

I am a friend of God! John 15:15

"I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from My Father I have made known to you".

Thank YOU, JESUS, My Savior! YOU are the FINAL AUTHORITY!

It's ALL about JESUS!
409 posted on 04/18/2011 11:05:55 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name
Uh, case in point - you clearly have a great deal of disdain for Catholics.

"I'm saved and walk in his blessings daily and there is nothing you can do or say to change that."

Not quite. But for sake of argument, lets just say you are indeed saved. Now, lets say you go and commit a mortal sin. What then?

410 posted on 04/18/2011 11:36:23 AM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Celtic Cross

There is no such thing as a moral sin.


411 posted on 04/18/2011 11:37:38 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: Celtic Cross

There is no such thing as a mortal sin, any sin, even the slightest sin leads to death. Sin is Sin.


412 posted on 04/18/2011 11:38:13 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: Scythian
Mortal sin is very real.

John 5:16-17: "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is a sin which is not mortal."

Luke 12:47-48: "And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more."

413 posted on 04/18/2011 12:11:30 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Celtic Cross
Uh, case in point - you clearly have a great deal of disdain for Catholics.

You are clearly are wrong. What I see is a disdain for God's Holy Spirit Inspired on your part and my distain is for anything that opposes God's Word which is man made teachings/doctrine.

I'm saved and walk in his blessings daily and there is nothing you can do or say to change that."....Not quite.

NOT AT ALL! I'm a child of The Most High God, I'm saved and you can do one thing about it but whine, whine, whine because of RCC man-made teachings.

But for sake of argument, lets just say you are indeed saved. Now, lets say you go and commit a mortal sin. What then?'

What then? You want to argue about my salvation? LOL! Get it over it. It Is Written that It is Finished. Mortal sin? LOL! I'm not catholic.
414 posted on 04/18/2011 12:38:26 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Celtic Cross

What the heck? I looked up John 5:16, you must have your chapter/verse messed up. Can you double check, I’m interested. I’m sure you must be using some kind of Catholic thing because I searched on

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/

and cannot even find the word mortal in the new testament?


415 posted on 04/18/2011 1:04:47 PM PDT by Scythian
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To: presently no screen name
"What I see is a disdain for God's Holy Spirit Inspired (word?) on your part."

Nope.

"What then? You want to argue about my salvation? LOL! Get it over it. It Is Written that It is Finished. Mortal sin? LOL! I'm not catholic.

Yes, what then. I know you're not a Catholic. That has nothing to do with it. But mortal sin is in the bible. See my reply to scythian.

So my question is still - what then?

416 posted on 04/18/2011 1:07:11 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Scythian

I’ll look into that. I think perhaps I’m looking at a different translation.


417 posted on 04/18/2011 1:08:53 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Celtic Cross
I was using the Revised Standard Version. 1 John 5.

Here is the Link, if I've got my html correct.

418 posted on 04/18/2011 1:17:54 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Scythian
I was using the Revised Standard Version. 1 John 5. Here is the Link, if I've got my html correct.
419 posted on 04/18/2011 1:19:39 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Celtic Cross; dangus

Well, quite frankly, I did not expect a response as too often our friends here posit false positions of The Church when their own positions are utterly wrong and provably wrong, biblically and logically.


420 posted on 04/19/2011 11:04:10 PM PDT by Cronos (Christian, redneck, rube and proud of it!)
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