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A Blueprint for a Monarchy in America [How Two Catholic Monarchists view the rest of us Americans]
The Altar and Throne Monarchy Site ^ | December 19, 2008 | Nick

Posted on 05/03/2011 12:17:26 PM PDT by Alex Murphy

A reader recently sent me a constitution he drew up for a monarchy that would be applicable for the United States, where no one religion stands in the majority. I found his hypothetical constitution intriguing, and was impressed by the depth he went into. While I do not necessarily endorse his proposal in its entirety, I did want to post it for my readers to look over and to comment upon it. (Note: the author of this constitution wished to remain anonymous due to "the current political situation.")


The People

Recognized Churches Must Adhere to the Following Precepts:

Belief in a single God, the Father Almighty, who is eternal and unchanging, the sole creator and master of the universe
Belief in Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, who is co-eternal with the Father, partaking fully in both the human and divine essence
Profession of the Trinity: belief that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit exist as three separate and distinct persons while sharing a single essence
Belief that salvation comes only through the redemptive sacrifice of Christ
Belief in the literal existence of Heaven and Hell
Belief in the Revealed Truth of Scripture
Promotion of Proper Morality: condemnation of abortion, euthanasia, fornication, polygamy, homosexuality, bestiality and artificial birth control
Rejection of Modern Heresies: condemnation of Marxism, racism and/or ethnocentricism, dispensationalism, relativism, pantheism, and pacifism
Recognition that the mandate to rule comes from God, not popular acclamation
Possession of 10 million adherents within imperial domains

Subjects

While the constitution allows for complete freedom of religion for all inhabitants of the imperial domains, not all religions are equal in the eyes of the state. Subjects are those people who do not belong to Recognized Churches; they are divided into those with religion (Moral Theists) and those without it (Heathens), both groups are free to practice their belief systems in privacy and without interference from imperial authorities. Moral Theists may vote for and hold the office of Tribune of Subjects, an officer who represents them in the Senate. Both Moral Theists and Heathens are barred from all other elections and elected offices, the military officer corps, teaching positions at government schools and the practice of law.

Those Without Religion (Heathens)
Atheists
Those Apathetic to Religion
Pagans, Muslims, Wiccans, New Age Spiritualists, Satanists
Reformed/Progressive Jews
Heretics: Pseudo-Christians not conforming to any one the first nine precepts

Those With Religion (Moral Theists)
Monotheists/Deists: must conform to seventh, eighth, and ninth precepts
Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Zoroastrians
Theravadin and Mahayana Buddhists
Orthodox/Traditional Jews
Independent Christians: Christian sects with less than 10 million adherents
Citizens

Citizens are those people who belong to Recognized Churches; the constitution recognizes two classes of citizens: plebeians and patricians. Though all inhabitants of the imperial domains stand equal before the law, the extent to which one can participate in political life is determined partly by one’s social standing. Citizens, however, possess rights that Subjects do not: these include the freedom of assembly, the right to imperial petition, freedom of the press and freedom of speech. Children born to Citizen Families attain citizenship with a proclamation of faith and featly on their 18th birthday in the presence of the County Magistrate; those who decline to make this statement are demoted to Heathen Status.

Plebeians

Plebeians, or commoners, are citizens who hold no official titles; they are divided into two classes: Proletarians and Equestrians. Citizenship is a gift, not a right, and is awarded to those who conform to certain moral standards. As such, Plebeians may be stripped of their status by judgment of the Country Magistrate should they engage in manifest public sin.

Proletarians

Proletarians are Plebeians who hold taxable assets whose net worth is less than $500,000; they are barred from all elected offices and may only vote for one official: the Tribune of Plebeians, who must be a member of the Equestrian class.

Equestrians

Equestrians are Plebeians who hold taxable assets whose net worth is more than $500,000; they may vote in any election and hold any elected office. One may be born to the Equestrian class if one’s father is also an Equestrian but this status may be lost if they fail to accumulate $300,000 worth of taxable assets before their 35th birthday. All officers in the military automatically attain Equestrian status upon their commission which cannot be lost regardless of the value of their assets.

Patricians

Patricians, or nobles, are Catholic citizens whose families have been endowed with titles and estates by the Emperor or higher orders of nobility; they are divided into three classes: Dominates, Magnates and the Imperial Family. Both the imperial and provincial governments include appointed offices which are reserved exclusively for Patricians. To be born into the Patrician class, one’s father or grandfather must also have been a Patrician; one’s status as a Dominate or Magnate is inherited from their father or grandfather as well. As with Plebeians, one can also lose Patrician status if they engage in manifest public sin; this demotion results in automatic Heathen status with the loss of all endowed property and inheritance rights.

Dominates (Lords)

Dominates, or lesser lords, are Patricians who have been ennobled by individual Magnates; these appointments must be ratified by the provincial Council of Magnates. Certain positions at the provincial and imperial levels of government are reserved exclusively for Dominates; among these are those of Censor, Legate and Lictor. Dominate status may be revoked, along with all hereditary titles and property rites, should the individual be found guilty of manifest public sin by the regional Council of Magnates.

Magnates (Great Lords)

Magnates, or great lords, are Patricians who have been ennobled by the Emperor in recognition of their extraordinary achievements or exemplary service to the state. Certain positions at the imperial level of government are reserved exclusively for Magnates; they alone are permitted to assume the offices of Aedile, Dux, Quaestor, Senator and Princeps Senatus. All senior Magnates in a province also belong to the Council of Magnates, responsible for electing Senators to represent them in the Comitia Magnus; the leader of this body is given the honorary title of Dux. Magnate status may be revoked, along with all hereditary titles and property rites, should the individual be found guilty of manifest public sin by judgment of the Emperor.

Imperial Family

The Imperial Family consists of the Emperor, his wife, his children and grandchildren, his siblings and their spouses, and their children and grandchildren. These people possess Magnate status at birth and may be appointed to any position normally reserved for members of that class. Upon his ascension to the throne, the Emperor designates his own successor from among his sons, brothers, nephews, uncles or male cousins over the age of 25; a new successor may be chosen at any time when circumstances demand it. This choice must be verified by the Council of Duxi and the consent of the Papal Tribune.

The Government

The imperial government operates at five levels: municipalities, counties, provinces, eparchies, and the imperial government; with the exception of eparchies, at every level there are both elected and appointed offices open to members of the Plebeian or Patrician class. Any official may be removed from office should he be found guilty of manifest public sin, which could also result in the loss of his citizen status; the court which tries him is dependent on the status of his elected or appointed office. With the exception of Tribunes, only Equestrians and Patricians may vote in elections or hold elected offices; the particulars are listed below.

Municipal Offices

Mayor

The Mayor acts as the municipal executive and may be a member of the Equestrian or Patrician class; terms of service, executive powers, age restrictions, and election particulars are determined by individual provinces and municipalities.


Municipal Councilor

Municipal Councilors act as advisors to the Mayor and may be members of the Equestrian or Patrician class; terms of service, councilor powers, numbers, age restrictions and election particulars are determined by individual provinces and municipalities.

Prefect

The Prefect acts as the municipal judge and may be a member of the Equestrian or Patrician class; he is appointed by the county Magistrate and has the power to appoint further municipal judges beneath him if necessity demands it. The Prefect serves for a term of five years and may be reappointed indefinitely though the associate judges he creates may be dismissed at any time. Prefects must be at least 35 years of age at the time of their first appointment.

County Offices

Magistrate

The Magistrate acts as both the county executive and judge and may be a member of the Equestrian or Patrician class. He is responsible for appointing municipal Prefects, approving mayoral appointments, overseeing public services and facilities and hearing appeals from municipal courts, deciding which cases will be heard by higher courts. The Magistrate is appointed by the Governor with the approval of the Censor and serves for a term of five years; he must be at least 35 years of age at the time of his first appointment and may be reappointed indefinitely. Other powers and duties are determined by individual provinces.

Provincial Offices

Governor

The Governor acts as the provincial executive and may be a member of the Equestrian or Patrician class; he is elected by popular vote and must have held county or municipal offices prior to his election as Governor. His primary duties are to appoint county Magistrates and oversee public facilities and services. Other terms of service, powers, age restrictions and election particulars are determined by individual provinces.

Provincial Councilors

Provincial Councilors act as provincial legislative officials and belong to a body called the Provincial Council; they may be members of the Equestrian or Patrician class and are elected by popular vote in proportion to the population of individual counties within the state. The powers of the Provincial Council, numbers of councilors, age restrictions and election particulars are determined by individual provinces.

Praetor

Praetors act as the provincial judges and may be a member of the Equestrian or Patrician class; they are appointed by the Censor to a ten year term and must have held county or municipal offices prior to their appointment to Praetor. Three Praetors sit on the High Court of each province and are responsible for hearing appeals from lower courts.

Censor

The Censor acts as the eparchial representative in each province and must be a member of the Dominate class; he is appointed to a life term by the Viceroy and is subject to no age restrictions. Censors have the power to appoint Praetors and Dominate Triumviri and veto any law passed by the Provincial Council or any decree from the Governor; their decisions may be appealed to and overturned by the Viceroy.

Eparchial Offices

Viceroy

The Viceroy acts as the imperial representative in each eparchy; he must be a member of the Magnate class and is appointed by the Emperor with the approval of the Senate. The Viceroy holds the position for life and has the power overturn the decision of any Censor in his eparchy and recommend cases for the Legate Court to hear. He presides over meetings of the Provincial Councils within his eparchy and has the responsibility of appointing Legates and Censors.

Legate

Legates act as eparchial judges and must be members of the Dominate class; they are appointed by the Viceroy and serve for life. The five Legates serving on each eparchial Supreme Court are subject to no age restrictions and have the responsibility of hearing appeals from lower courts; they are not obligated to accept every case.

Dux

The Dux is the mostly honorary position held by the leader of each of the eparchial Councils of Magnates according to their own parliamentary rules. The position is held for life; each Dux is also a de facto member of the Council of Duxi, responsible for electing the Princeps Senatus, approving Quaestor appointments and determining imperial succession.

Imperial Offices

Quaestor

Seven Quaestors, or judges, are appointed by the Emperor to officiate on the Imperial Court; all seven must be chosen from among the Magnate class and are subject to no age restrictions. It is their duty to hear appeals from lower courts, though they are not obligated to hear every case; Quaestor appointments, however, must be ratified by the Papal Tribune and the Council of Duxi. Quaestors serve for life and the longest-serving member of the Imperial Court is granted the honorary rank of Quaestor Magnus; at official functions, the Quaestor Magnus carries the Hand of Justice, symbolizing the triumph of law over chaos and the subservience of human law to the divine order.

Triumvir

Three Triumviri represent each province in the Comitia Minor; of these three representatives, two must be Equestrians and one must be a Dominate. All Triumviri must be at least 25 years of age. Equestrian Triumviri are elected by a majority vote of the provincial legislature with the approval of the Viceroy while Dominate Triumviri are appointed by the Censor of each province; they occupy their office for a term of five years and may be reelected or reappointed indefinitely.

Lictor

Elected by the Dominate Triumviri of the Comitia Minor; those holding the rank of Lictor must be Dominates themselves and at least 35 years of age. In this largely ceremonial role, the Lictor presides over all meetings of the Comitia Minor and carries the Fasces of State, symbolizing imperial power, at all official functions.

Senator

Two Senators are elected by each Council of Magnates according to their own parliamentary rules. Those holding the rank of Senator must be Magnates themselves and at least 35 years of age. Senators are barred from holding any other governmental office and serve in the Comitia Major for life.

Princeps Senatus

Elected by the Council of Duxi according to their own parliamentary rules; the one holding this office must be a Magnate himself and a Dux. The Princeps Senatus is subject to no age restrictions and holds the title for life. It is his duty to preside over all meetings of the Comitia Major and to cast the deciding vote in the event of a tie. At official functions, the Princeps Senatus is granted the honor of carrying the Sword of State, representing the duty of government to protect its people.

Tribune of Subjects

Elected by a popular vote of Moral Theists over the age of 18; the one holding this office must be a Moral Theist himself and be at least 35 years of age. To attain the position, candidates for this office must gain a simple majority of votes; in the event that one of the candidates fails to achieve a majority, another election will be held between the two leading contenders. The Tribune of Subjects serves a term of five years and may be reelected indefinitely; he has the power to veto any legislation he feels is detrimental to his constituents, but this veto can be overridden by a two-thirds majority vote in the Comitia Major or by imperial proclamation.

Tribune of Plebeians

Elected by a popular vote of all Plebeians, both Proletarians and Equestrians, over the age of 18; the one holding this office must be an Equestrian himself and at least 35 years of age. To attain the position, candidates for this office must gain a simple majority of votes; in the event that one of the candidates fails to achieve a majority, another election will be held between the two leading contenders. The Tribune of Plebeians serves a term of five years and may be reelected indefinitely; he has the power to veto any legislation he feels is detrimental to his constituents, but this veto can be overridden by a four-fifths majority vote in the Comitia Major or by imperial proclamation.

Papal Tribune

The Papal Tribune is appointed by the Supreme Pontiff and holds the position for life; the one holding this office must be a Catholic clergyman holding the rank of bishop. The Papal Tribune has the power to veto any legislation that betrays the principles of Christian morality; this veto is final and may only be overturned by imperial decree.

Imperator (Emperor)

The Emperor acts as the chief executive; his succession must be ratified by the previous Emperor, the Council of Duxi, and the Papal Tribune. It is his responsibility to defend the rule of law and Christian Civilization from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Though his power to declare war, appoint certain officials, and use state monies is abrogated by the Senate or the nobility, the Emperor may overrule the decision of any court, create new Magnates and preside over all meetings of the full Senate.

The author of this also gave these additional disclaimers:

I have divided the people living in any hypothetical imperial realm into subjects and citizens, based on their religious creed. Basically anyone adhering to the seventh, eighth and ninth precepts is considered a moral theist, as are Christian groups which conform to all the other nine precepts but have less than 10 million members. Only state-recognized churches receive tax-free status; by requiring 10 million members for this I hope to force the myriad of independent Protestant churches to combine into larger organizations with a more strict emphasis on doctrinal orthodoxy. Catholics of course get preeminent status in the government. As you can see, people may lose their citizen status or office should they be found guilty of manifest public sin.

Upon their 18th birthday, young people from citizen families will be required to take an oath in which they adhere to the first nine precepts; those converting to one of the Recognized Churches can apply for citizenship and, after a period of political and spiritual instruction, will be administered the same oath. Young people from citizen families who refuse to take the oath will be demoted to heathen status, as are people who leave one of the Recognized Churches; this may be appealed only after 10 years and the testimony of credible witnesses attesting to that person's conversion.

The government operates on five levels: municipalities, counties, provinces, eparchies, and the imperial government. The day to day governance is mostly conducted at the municipal/county/province level by elected officials. The eparchies are mostly judicial units consisting of several provinces designed to provide direct imperial oversight of lower offices. This system tries to allow people to run their own affairs as much as possible with limited interference but nonetheless has safeguards to ensure that new laws passed do not conflict with Christian morality. Hence the division between citizens and subjects/nobles and commoners. You'll also notice a distinction between Proletarians and Equestrians based on wealth; I do not hate the poor, but I do recognize that people without wealth and education tend to support destructive policies, hence the reason they are banned from all but one election.

The Imperial Senate is the legislative body of the Empire and is divided into an upper house (Comitia Major) and a lower house (Comitia Minor). The latter is at least 1/3 noble at all times, limiting the power of commoners to make direct policy at the highest level of government. The Tribunes exist to ensure that the people's voice is at least heard, but they can still be overruled by the Comitia Major. Basically the Comitia Major has the powers we Americans would associate with the Senate while the Comitia Minor is comperable to the House of Representatives.

Officially the Emperor's powers are comparable to that of a US President insofar as his ablility to declare war, raise taxes, and appoint certain officials is concerned; but he is capable of exerting far more influence over the government should he have the backing of the Church or other circumstances demand it.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: calvinistshate; catholicmonarchy; greatcatholicmonarch; monarchism
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
"There are several admitted Roman Catholic Monarchists on Free Republic"

"There are?"

Well, one thing we know as Christians, Heaven is surely a monarchy.

Though I'm not pretending to know the mind of God,, it does follow that if Jesus Christ was King of the Jews, King of Kings, and King of Heaven and Earth, and He made man in His own image and likeness, it wouldn't really be surprising if He intended earthly nations to be monarchies ruled over by beneficent Kings. Just a thought.

51 posted on 05/03/2011 2:32:02 PM PDT by jiminycricket000 (t)
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Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Who exactly on this forum is a Catholic Monarchist? Please list screen names.

I'll do you one better, I'll give you the links:

Here and here.

53 posted on 05/03/2011 2:35:49 PM PDT by Gamecock (I didn't reach the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian.)
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To: Celtic Cross; Religion Moderator
Aren't YOU making it personal?

Thank you for that, CC -- RM, you have gone against the forum rules by making this personal. Besides, as I've stated above, any freeper who's been here since before July last year would have seen this flag

I don't live there any more (strange, I told most folks un June that I was moving to the wife's land) and didn't live there for much of the last decade (during the early part of the last decade they'd have seen the Union Jack, but surprisingly no such personal comments then.... but then it was only Catholic-Orthodox debates)

54 posted on 05/03/2011 2:36:57 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Alex Murphy
As a fan of Roman History this seems to be a handy description of most of the officials in the later Roman Empire in the late fourth century AD, with enough changes as to be not useful as an accurate account of the Imperial Constitution of that period. Other than that I do not see its relevance to anything. Perhaps you can next post a thread about changes in insect life in Australia in the first millennium AD.
55 posted on 05/03/2011 2:37:45 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Liberty and Union, Now and Forever, One and Inseparable -- Daniel Webster)
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To: jiminycricket000
it wouldn't really be surprising if He intended earthly nations to be monarchies ruled over by beneficent Kings. Just a thought.

And you support that notion? That we should have a king?

56 posted on 05/03/2011 2:38:01 PM PDT by Gamecock (I didn't reach the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian.)
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To: OpusatFR

You are right, as usual, OpusatFR. There is only one King that matters. And I will follow Him, always.

Blessed be Jesus Christ, true God and True Man.
Benedictus Iesus Christus, verus Deus et verus homo.


57 posted on 05/03/2011 2:40:50 PM PDT by sayuncledave (A cruce salus)
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To: Gamecock; Dr. Brian Kopp

There was a dude, can’t remember the screenname, that was kicked off the forum for spouting Romanist Monarchy crap.


58 posted on 05/03/2011 2:41:37 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla; Alex Murphy
Other than that I do not see its relevance to anything.

Other than the fact that there are Roman Catholics out there, and here on FR, that support this notion, you are absolutely right. < /sarc>

59 posted on 05/03/2011 2:43:28 PM PDT by Gamecock (I didn't reach the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian.)
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To: Natural Law; stfassisi; Gamecock
Natural Law, stfassisi

Gamecock just stated that you are Catholic Monarchists, and by implication that you are in agreement with the author of the article in this thread.

Of course, he should have pinged you if he wanted to make such an assertion.

Personally, I think any Catholic would prefer that type of government most likely to promote Jesus Christ as King and the moral and ethical teachings of the Church Christ founded. If that is best accomplished by a republic or a democracy, so be it. If it is best served by a monarchy, so be it.

That does not make me (or Natural Law or stfassisi) a Catholic Monarchist, and to claim otherwise is a blatant untruth.

60 posted on 05/03/2011 2:43:52 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Gamecock; Dr. Brian Kopp; Natural Law; stfassisi

Natural Law and stfassisi, you may want to check out post 53.

It looks like you’re being identified as monarchists.


61 posted on 05/03/2011 2:43:52 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: stfassisi; Natural Law

Courtesy Ping!


62 posted on 05/03/2011 2:44:47 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Liberty and Union, Now and Forever, One and Inseparable -- Daniel Webster)
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To: OpusatFR; sayuncledave
You are DARN right that I, a Catholic, am a monarchist.

There is only ONE KING - Hail, Christ the King!

Well, when you put it that way, I guess I'm a "monarchist" too ;-)

I look forward to that day when The Lord God, King of the Universe reigns.

Dittos.

63 posted on 05/03/2011 2:46:55 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: the_conscience; Gamecock; Dr. Brian Kopp
There was a dude, can’t remember the screenname, that was kicked off the forum for spouting Romanist Monarchy crap.

"Maybe now folks will finally realize that "traditional American conservatism" as it has been known is neither traditional nor conservative. It is a farce and a fraud — good old-fashioned Jean Jacques Rousseau liberalism wrapped in a red-white-and-blue bathrobe. Maybe now they will begin to see that the Constitution, the Statue of Liberty, and Wall Street are part of the same monstrous history-spanning project that brought us the French Revolution, the Soviet Union, and two World Wars. Perhaps now they will come to see that real capital-C Conservatism has nothing to do with individual Liberty and everything to do with individual Duty, and that real Conservatism is not and cannot be divorced from the Christian religion and the historic Christian culture of the West prior to the so-called "Enlightenment".

We Catholics need do nothing but watch and pray. The house of cards John Locke and his contemporaries have built is about to come down upon its own foundation of sand. And after the crash comes, those of us who survive can once again take up the task given us by God after the last pagan empire fell: the construction of civilization based not upon Libery, Equality, and Fraternity, but upon Tradition, Family, and Property. In place of the fallen gods of atheistic Reason and individualist Liberty we will re-erect the twin pillars of Altar and Throne.

Thank you so much for posting this. Vive le Roi! Viva Cristo Rey!"

-- banned Catholic Monarchist FReeper B-Chan,
on the August 2010 thread Catholic Government [Michael Voris video]

(i.e. the thread/video advocating a "Benevolent Catholic Dictatorship" for America)


64 posted on 05/03/2011 2:47:01 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG...thank you. Thank you.)
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To: Gamecock; bronxville
Just like Roman Catholics on FR who blame sexually abused children for the abuse they suffered by by priests.

There are no Catholics here who blame sexually abused children for their abuse. However, there really are a certain few posters here that seem to take a certain joy in the scandals.

65 posted on 05/03/2011 2:47:20 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: Gamecock

‘Other than the fact that there are Roman Catholics out there, and here on FR, that support this notion, you are absolutely right. < /sarc>’

I am sure that there are some members of your denomination, if it is large enough, who are serial murderers. So what.


66 posted on 05/03/2011 2:48:10 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Liberty and Union, Now and Forever, One and Inseparable -- Daniel Webster)
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To: Campion

But Campion there are two of them. Two. Obviously their plot will soon make inroads into the farthest reaches of government, academia and religious sects.

Thank the Lord that Murphy is so vigilant. Think of what would happen if Kings were to rule over us. The corruption. The favortism. The appeal to foreign powers. The use of mass media to lull the senses of the populace. The unjust and arbritary taxation for political favor. Why a King could very well demand lands be seized on a whim. That farmlands be flooded to please subjects most loyal to him.

In truth I don’t favor a monarchy but the idea of displacing a bad ruler by means of the axe’s blade is a tempting one these days.


67 posted on 05/03/2011 2:48:42 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: the_conscience
I think that was OrthodoxPresbyterian.

Or was it RJR_fan? Or wait, weren't they tossed out for being anti-semitic?

68 posted on 05/03/2011 2:49:17 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Religion Moderator

As is stupidity.


69 posted on 05/03/2011 2:50:37 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: WPaCon; Dr. Brian Kopp; Natural Law; stfassisi; Gamecock
It looks like you’re being identified as monarchists.

But that would be a personal attack by Gamecock on NL and stf -- isn't that against Forum rules?

Besides, is it really wrong that we Christians think that Christ is King of all creation?

I don't really care if Gamecock disagrees with that

70 posted on 05/03/2011 2:51:28 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Alex Murphy

Yeah, that was him!


71 posted on 05/03/2011 2:51:53 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: WPaCon; Alex Murphy
There are no Catholics here who blame sexually abused children for their abuse.

Alex, do you have the link in you archives?

72 posted on 05/03/2011 2:52:16 PM PDT by Gamecock (I didn't reach the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Was that post the reason for B-Chan’s zotting, or was he kicked off for posting something else?


73 posted on 05/03/2011 2:52:31 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: Celtic Cross

Give me the Divine Right of Kings or don’t give me Kings at all. In for a penny in for a pound.


74 posted on 05/03/2011 2:52:31 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: Gamecock

“Or in all likelihood it is a Roman Catholic Monarchist named Nick.”

You must really have a low opinion of the posters here and also any lurkers with half a brain.


“Where is the Outrage? (protestant pedophiles)

Welcome to a collection of news reports on ministers who have sexually abused children:

ALL Protestant denominations - 838 Ministers

147 Baptist Ministers

251 “Bible” Church Ministers (fundamentalist/evangelical)

140 Anglican/Episcopalian Ministers

38 Lutheran Ministers

46 Methodist Ministers

19 Presbyterian Ministers

197 various Church Ministers

*** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is available here without profit to people who want to read it for research and educational purposes. If you quote from this, please check (if possible) and acknowledge the ORIGINAL source. *** This service is provided by volunteers for non-profit.
http://www.reformation.com/

Baptist Hide and Seek

[...]Remember: Most clergy child molesters have never been convicted of anything. Of all the Catholic priests who have been removed from ministry, only 3 percent were able to be criminally prosecuted and only 2 percent were ever jailed. If Catholics themselves had not taken action - finally - over 700 child molesting priests would still be working in ministry. The largest Protestant denomination needs to do something about this problem as well.[...]
http://stopbaptistpredators.org/BaptistHideSeek.html

Lots more at link (and even more not posted -
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/post?id=2714358%2C7

As anyone can see there’s absolutely no need for any Catholic to deflect from a blogger who calls himself “Nick”. This tread-starter posts from an off the wall blogger who calls himself Nick and we’re all supposed to debate it like he’s a serious writer? heh

PS: The secular media (especially their bosses) are after the Catholic Church because they know if we fall the rest of you are going down like a house of cards. The vast majority of Protestants know this and then there are those who as thick as planks. Because the media are leaving you alone, for now, don’t think you’re off the hook.


75 posted on 05/03/2011 2:53:50 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: Gamecock
And you support that notion? That we should have a king?

If that was what it would take to return this country to its Christian roots, why would any Christian oppose it?

I'm not saying that is the case, but what's so bad about a truly Christian monarchy compared to the anti-Christian anarchy running this country at present?

76 posted on 05/03/2011 2:55:27 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: WPaCon; Alex Murphy

As I recall he had a thread he started that was his magnus opus on the subject that lead to his removal.


77 posted on 05/03/2011 2:57:18 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: Alex Murphy

What a load of crap.


78 posted on 05/03/2011 2:58:51 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Nothing to see here. Move along.)
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To: the_conscience; Alex Murphy

Thanks. The quote that Alex often pulls up seems zot worthy, but, of all the zots I’ve seen here, Jim usually announces it on the thread. However, there is nothing to indicate that he was zotted on the thread with that quote.


79 posted on 05/03/2011 2:59:32 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Natural Law; stfassisi; Dr. Brian Kopp

My apologies for not pinging you when I mentioned your name. That was very remiss of me.

And now I believe Gamecock owes an apology to Natural law and stfassisi.


80 posted on 05/03/2011 3:02:14 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: Gamecock

“Just like Roman Catholics on FR who blame sexually abused children for the abuse they suffered by by priests.”

Name one Catholic on this forum who has ever done that. One. You are allowed to post calumny after calumny without being called on it because of the favortism shown to your heretical sect of reprobates. But now you have offered as fact something that you can not prove. That in any other setting could be called a lie. Yet no one may say so here.

So I wil ask the moderator when can we say somebody is defaming and libeling others on this forum. At what point do foul accusations get pulled because they are without proof and posted only to spread hatred and bigotry?

Is there no devotion to truth anymore? Are lies to be given free rein because the rules forbid us from saying they are lies? What do you call someone who knowingly posts lie after lie? I know liar is not allowed. That would be personal.

But claiming that Catholics blame sexually abused children for their abuse is o.k. That is not personal.

What a joke.


81 posted on 05/03/2011 3:05:08 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: the_conscience

You should probably stop while you are ahead. I take your insult to be a personal one as my grandson is part Polish.


82 posted on 05/03/2011 3:06:37 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: sayuncledave

“There is only one King that matters. And I will follow Him, always.”

Amen


83 posted on 05/03/2011 3:08:52 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: Alex Murphy
-- banned Catholic Monarchist FReeper B-Chan

Too bad, I always liked B-chan. He was the artist who created the YOPIOS graphic.

Maybe now folks will finally realize that "traditional American conservatism" as it has been known is neither traditional nor conservative. It is a farce and a fraud — good old-fashioned Jean Jacques Rousseau liberalism wrapped in a red-white-and-blue bathrobe. Maybe now they will begin to see that the Constitution, the Statue of Liberty, and Wall Street are part of the same monstrous history-spanning project that brought us the French Revolution, the Soviet Union, and two World Wars.

Yeah, that was a bit over the top. Worthy of being banned for it? That's certainly debatable.

Perhaps now they will come to see that real capital-C Conservatism has nothing to do with individual Liberty [i.e., licentiousness] and everything to do with individual Duty, and that real Conservatism is not and cannot be divorced from the Christian religion and the historic Christian culture of the West prior to the so-called "Enlightenment".

That's basic Christian reality, with which I must agree as a Christian conservative.

We Catholics need do nothing but watch and pray. The house of cards John Locke and his contemporaries have built is about to come down upon its own foundation of sand. And after the crash comes, those of us who survive can once again take up the task given us by God after the last pagan empire fell: the construction of civilization based not upon Libery, Equality, and Fraternity, but upon Tradition, Family, and Property. In place of the fallen gods of atheistic Reason and individualist Liberty we will re-erect the twin pillars of Altar and Throne.

The only thing offensive here is the last word, and its only offensive to those with a knee jerk antipathy to the idea of monarchy, even if that is the only way to restore Christendom.

Otherwise, its a good statement with which I agree as a Christian conservative, even though I am not a monarchist and don't necessarily agree with that one last word.

84 posted on 05/03/2011 3:09:28 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
We've seen what happens when Catholics run a country:

here and here.

85 posted on 05/03/2011 3:10:19 PM PDT by Gamecock (I didn't reach the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian.)
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To: WPaCon; Alex Murphy

I think that post was pretty typical but then he decided he would post his own thread in the news section and got pounded pretty good and finally banned.


86 posted on 05/03/2011 3:10:19 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: All

Where is the Outrage? (protestant pedophiles)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2709296/posts

Apologies. This is the correct link.


87 posted on 05/03/2011 3:13:46 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: WPaCon
I just happened to notice this article wasn't swamped by comments from those who are regularly so anxious to comment about child abuse on the religion forum. Interesting, isn't it?

El Cajon preschool worker arraigned on child porn charge

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2714062/posts

88 posted on 05/03/2011 3:14:36 PM PDT by Rashputin (Barry is insane., so handlers keep him medicated and on the golf course.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; Gamecock; Natural Law
Personally, I think any Catholic would prefer that type of government most likely to promote Jesus Christ as King and the moral and ethical teachings of the Church Christ founded. If that is best accomplished by a republic or a democracy, so be it. If it is best served by a monarchy, so be it.

That does not make me (or Natural Law or stfassisi) a Catholic Monarchist, and to claim otherwise is a blatant untruth.

Correct,dear brother.

I would prefer a Catholic Monarchy,but we don't have one here, and we are to far down the wrong path for things to change.

The next closest thing would be a Christian Democracy as the late great Pope Leo XIII wrote(I posted on different thread) Sadly ,we don't have that either,we are closer to social democracy

Here is what Pope Leo XIII wrote...

GRAVES DE COMMUNI RE ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON CHRISTIAN DEMOCRACY http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18011901_graves-de-communi-re_en.html

Here are a few excerpts...

Excerpt#1... ""Christian Democracy, by the fact that it is Christian, is built, and necessarily so, on the basic principles of divine faith, and it must provide better conditions for the masses, with the ulterior object of promoting the perfection of souls made for things eternal. Hence, for Christian Democracy, justice is sacred; it must maintain that the right of acquiring and possessing property cannot be impugned, and it must safeguard the various distinctions and degrees which are indispensable in every well-ordered commonwealth. Finally, it must endeavor to preserve in every human society the form and the character which God ever impresses on it. It is clear, therefore, that there in nothing in common between Social and Christian Democracy. They differ from each other as much as the sect of socialism differs from the profession of Christianity.

Moreover, it would be a crime to distort this name of Christian Democracy to politics, for, although democracy, both in its philological and philosophical significations, implies popular government, yet in its present application it must be employed without any political significance, so as to mean nothing else than this beneficent Christian action in behalf of the people. For, the laws of nature and of the Gospel, which by right are superior to all human contingencies, are necessarily independent of all particular forms of civil government, while at the same time they are in harmony with everything that is not repugnant to morality and justice. They are, therefore, and they must remain absolutely free from the passions and the vicissitudes of parties, so that, under whatever political constitution, the citizens may and ought to abide by those laws which command them to love God above all things, and their neighbors as themselves. This has always been the policy of the Church.

Excerpt#2.. ""Nor are we to eliminate from the list of good works the giving of money for charity, in pursuance of what Christ has said: “But yet that which remaineth, give alms.”(13) Against this, the socialist cries out and demands its abolition as injurious to the native dignity of man. But, if it is done in the manner which the Scripture enjoins,(14) and in conformity with the true Christian spirit, it neither connotes pride in the giver nor inflicts shame upon the one who receives. Far from being dishonorable for man, it draws closer the bonds of human society of augmenting the force of the obligation of the duties which men are under with regard to each other. No one is so rich that he does not need another’s help; no one so poor as not to be useful in some way to his fellow man; and the disposition to ask assistance from others with confidence and to grant it with kindness is part of our very nature. Thus, justice and charity are so linked with each other, under the equable and sweet law of Christ, as to form an admirable cohesive power in human society and to lead all of its members to exercise a sort of providence in looking after their own and in seeking the common good as well.

17. As regards not merely the temporary aid given to the laboring classes, but the establishment of permanent institutions in their behalf, it is most commendable for charity to undertake them. It will thus see that more certain and more reliable means of assistance will be afforded to the necessitous. That kind of help is especially worthy of recognition which forms the minds of mechanics and laborers to thrift and foresight, so that in course of time they may be able, in part at least, to look out for themselves. To aim at that is not only to dignify the duty of the rich toward the poor, but to elevate the poor themselves, for, while it urges them to work in order to improve their condition, it preserves them meantime from danger, it refrains immoderation in their desires, and acts as a spur in the practice of virtue. Since, therefore, this is of such great avail and so much in keeping with the spirit of the times, it is a worthy object for the charity of righteous men to undertake with prudence and zeal.

18. Let it be understood, therefore, that this devotion of Catholics to comfort and elevate the mass of the people is in keeping with the spirit of the Church and is most conformable to the examples which the Church has always held up for imitation. It matters very little whether it goes under the name of the Popular Christian Movement or Christian Democracy, if the instructions that have been given by Us be fully carried out with fitting obedience. But it is of the greatest importance that Catholics should be one in mind, will, and action in a matter of such great moment. And it is also of importance that the influence of these undertakings should be extended by the multiplication of men and means devoted to the same object.""

We are living in times where only prayer and fasting can help us all.

Lord Jesus Christ Son OF God Have Mercy on us all,sinners!

89 posted on 05/03/2011 3:15:33 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: lastchance
I take your insult to be a personal one as my grandson is part Polish.

The Origin of the “Polish Joke”

Polish “jokes” came from Nazi German propaganda that was then pushed ironically by Soviet communist sympathizers in Hollywood.

The racist stereotype that Poles are intellectually inferior or have subhuman intelligence, originated from Nazi German propaganda and Soviet propaganda.

For example, the myth that Polish horses were used to attack German tanks in World War II was total Nazi German propaganda that the Nazi Germans repeated over and over until it took a life of its own using the “Big Lie” technique. (Click on link for more on the Nazi propaganda on Polish Calvary attacks). The Big Lie is defined as "the intentional distortion of the truth, especially for political or official purposes." This tactic of trying to deceive a country's citizens was written about by Adolph Hitler. ["The great mass of people will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one." Adolf Hitler (1889-1945), Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 10, 1925].

The Soviet Communists saw the value of this myth and the racist notion that Polish people have subhuman intelligence, so they had their Left-Wing sympathizers in Hollywood push it to the American public using Anti-Polish Television and Movie imagery.

The image of Polish people having subhuman intelligence was useful to the Soviet Communists too, since then, people would not mind too much if Poland is occupied by the Soviet Union if Poles are portrayed as having a Slavic culture that is inferior and less then human.

Nazi German Hatred of Polish People

As for the German Nazis (and even the Soviets) they killed off the educated class of Poland first to make their racist stereotype of “Poland having inferior intelligence” a reality. The Nazi Germans also felt “Poles only had the intelligence for Nazi slave labor”.

Polish "jokes" were in Hitler's two speeches after he invaded Poland.

Hitler ridiculed Poles in his Sept. 19, 1939 speech in Danzig (today called Gdansk) and in his Berlin speech in Oct. 6, 1939 with these hate-through-humor anti-Polish “jokes” and references.

Nazi Anti-Polish propaganda/Polish “jokes” in Nazi Death Camps

Michael Preisler who was a Polish-Catholic survivor of the German Nazi concentration camp Auschwitz (Auschwitz prisoner #22213), has stated on many occasions how the Nazis ridiculed the Polish people as having less then human intelligence. Polish jokes were quite popular among Nazi guards in the parts of the Nazi death camps where there were Polish Catholic prisoners being tortured and killed.

Ironically, Left-wing Hollywood and the TV Networks (like NBC-TV) pushed these racist Polish “jokes” even though Hollywood claimed to hate Nazis. Hollywood and NBC-TV evidently hate Nazi propaganda but not when its applied to Poles. Hollywood and Network-TV (NBC) have a deep hatred for Anti-communist, Pro-American, Pro-Catholic Poland. The Polish American Guardian Society has documented NBC-TV’s attacks on Poland with racist Polish “jokes”.

The recent movie “Katyn” shows the German Nazis and Soviets killing the educated Polish class in Poland in order to make Poland “intellectually inferior” and easier to rule. This was during the time Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia were Allies, and were collaborating with each other to destroy Poland as per their Molotov-Ribbentrop pact to destroy Poland together.

Although there were degrading jokes about all ethnic groups in the United States due to assimilation problems when they arrived, the jokes that portray Poles as having subhuman intelligence, did not predate the 20th Century in America, since it was introduced by left-wing bigots in Hollywood and TV networks like NBC-TV in the late 1960s and 1970s.

Many Polish Americans who lived before this time have reported that they never heard these racist subhuman intelligence jokes about Poles, until after they were introduced by Left-Wing networks like NBC-TV in conjunction with Hollywood. NBC-TV launched Polish-bashing shows such as “Laugh In” which ridiculed Polish people constantly. Polish Americans felt the producer of “Laugh In,” George Schlatter, was an Anti-Polish bigot. In addition late night bigots were encouraged to bash Poles with “jokes” that portrayed the Polish people as having subhuman intelligence. Therefore the power of Television and motion pictures was used to demean and dehumanize Polish people with repetitive Big Lie type propaganda.

Anti-Polish movies such as “The End” were some of the earliest movies meant to degrade Poles with racist humor. In addition other anti-Polish shows such as “All in the Family” were used to degrade the Polish people even though the left-wing producer claimed the ruse that the show was suppose to be “against bigotry”. “All in the family” was filled with racist anti-Polish sound bites such as “Dumb Polak” in an attempt to influence its viewers to have the same anti-Polish prejudice, that the Left-wing producer of the show (Norman Lear) had.

So basically, Polish “jokes” were part of a Hollywood/TV media hate campaign against Polish people.

90 posted on 05/03/2011 3:16:15 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: bronxville

I’m outraged.
They should have their private parts cut off, a millstone tied around their necks and tossed into the ocean.


91 posted on 05/03/2011 3:17:37 PM PDT by Gamecock (I didn't reach the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian.)
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To: Gamecock

‘We’ve seen what happens when Catholics run a country:’

And in the 1930’s in Germany we saw what happens when Protestants run a country.


92 posted on 05/03/2011 3:20:22 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Liberty and Union, Now and Forever, One and Inseparable -- Daniel Webster)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; stfassisi; Gamecock
"Gamecock just stated that you are Catholic Monarchists, and by implication that you are in agreement with the author of the article in this thread."

There are people who post regularly that I expect neither intelligent content nor common courtesy. Gamecock is among them.

Some people are too damned stupid to critically assess the content of my posts to see that I am a Catholic Monarchist only to the extent that I would prefer it to an absolute democracy.

It is amusing to watch some of the less gifted trip all over themselves and their denominations in an attempt to score a hit on the Church. Some of the same fools that routinely glorify the "Enlightened Absolutism" that was the hell hole of Calvin's Geneva are the first to condemn the same governmental construct if the word "Catholic" is associated with it.

93 posted on 05/03/2011 3:20:49 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Thanks for the info. One of my heroines is Marya Salomee Sklodowska. I so admire her accomplishments and her contribution to science and medicine.

I imagine the one who posted the anti Polish jibes would only know her by her married name. Madame Mari Curie.


94 posted on 05/03/2011 3:24:39 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: the_conscience

Ok


95 posted on 05/03/2011 3:24:46 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
And in the 1930’s in Germany we saw what happens when Protestants run a country.

Read your history. Hitler was a Roman Catholic.

96 posted on 05/03/2011 3:25:04 PM PDT by Gamecock (I didn't reach the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian.)
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To: Gamecock

That’s a mighty small brush, given two thousand years. Shall we balance that out? I think it is probably safe to say that, in two thousand years, there have been a fair percentage of decently-run countries, where the official/majority religion was Catholicism. That doesn’t mean you have to like it. Really, though, painting two thousand years of history with only two countries?


97 posted on 05/03/2011 3:30:25 PM PDT by sayuncledave (A cruce salus)
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To: Gamecock
"I’m outraged."

But not outraged enough to push back from your keyboard and actually do something about it.

While we are at it, what have you done, personally, to stop the modern holocaust of abortion, I mean besides spending countless hours wrongly attacking the biggest defender of life in the world?

98 posted on 05/03/2011 3:30:50 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Gamecock

Feel free to show that irrefutable proof, now. ;)


99 posted on 05/03/2011 3:31:19 PM PDT by sayuncledave (A cruce salus)
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To: Gamecock

‘Hitler was a Roman Catholic.’

Hitler was a lapsed Catholic. The German government had been run by Protestants since Bismark’s ‘Kulterkampf’ in the 19th century, when Catholicism was thoroughly suppressed, in part to ensure that the largest German state, Catholic Austria, was kept out of the German Empire.


100 posted on 05/03/2011 3:31:24 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Liberty and Union, Now and Forever, One and Inseparable -- Daniel Webster)
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