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A Blueprint for a Monarchy in America [How Two Catholic Monarchists view the rest of us Americans]
The Altar and Throne Monarchy Site ^ | December 19, 2008 | Nick

Posted on 05/03/2011 12:17:26 PM PDT by Alex Murphy

click here to read article


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To: Rashputin

Hmmm... I wonder why they aren’t on that thread.


101 posted on 05/03/2011 3:32:03 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: Gamecock

Read your history. Hitler had no religious faith. He reluctantly put up with those around him who were pagans. But NAZI Germany was mostly Protestant.

The belief that Hitler was Catholic is willfully ignorant.


102 posted on 05/03/2011 3:33:51 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

I have to say, that yopios graphic is a classic, and, although I may not agree with what he wrote on that post, he seems to be a very good writer.


103 posted on 05/03/2011 3:34:22 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: Gamecock
"Read your history. Hitler was a Roman Catholic."

No, you should read your history. You are looking through the wrong end of the microscope.

Like many of the more malicious posters in the Religion Forum, Hitler left the Church at an early age and pursued a darker belief system. He never looked back.

Now take a look at the composition and doctrines of the German Protestant Church that was rewarded with the Cabinet Level office of Reichbishop for their active support of Nazi policies. You might also want to look at the numbers of Catholic clergy who were exterminated in concentration camps at the same time.

104 posted on 05/03/2011 3:35:38 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Gamecock

Reading is Fundamental

105 posted on 05/03/2011 3:38:20 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: Alex Murphy

The horror! If this happens, I will eat a hat of your choosing. If not (in say, ten years), you must eat any UFO I manage to dig up outside of Roswell.


106 posted on 05/03/2011 3:39:17 PM PDT by Puddleglum (dance with the horse that brung ya)
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To: sayuncledave
In his childhood, Hitler had admired the pomp of Catholic ritual and the hierarchical organisation of the clergy. Later, he drew on these elements, organizing his party along hierarchical lines and including liturgical forms into events or using phraseology taken from hymns. Because of these liturgical elements, Hitler's Messiah-like status and the ideology's all-encompassing nature, the Nazi movement is sometimes termed a "political religion".
Source Wikipedia


107 posted on 05/03/2011 3:40:09 PM PDT by Gamecock (I didn't reach the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian.)
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To: Natural Law

It’s like Whack-A-Mole around here.

We’ve gone from the article written by a couple of guys into pagentry after the royal wedding into molestation, and now Nazis!

How utterly predictable!

What next the Pope wears Prada?

Catholics are cannibals?

The Virgin wasn’t as holy as that sodomite, Calvin?

It’s boring. This place is as intellectually stimulating as a trip to Jersy City.


108 posted on 05/03/2011 3:40:18 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: sayuncledave
In his childhood, Hitler had admired the pomp of Catholic ritual and the hierarchical organisation of the clergy. Later, he drew on these elements, organizing his party along hierarchical lines and including liturgical forms into events or using phraseology taken from hymns. Because of these liturgical elements, Hitler's Messiah-like status and the ideology's all-encompassing nature, the Nazi movement is sometimes termed a "political religion".
Source Wikipedia


109 posted on 05/03/2011 3:40:18 PM PDT by Gamecock (I didn't reach the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian.)
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To: Gamecock

“I’m outraged.
They should have their private parts cut off, a millstone tied around their necks and tossed into the ocean.”

You act like you’re shocked. You never knew there were Protestant Pedophiles?


110 posted on 05/03/2011 3:41:09 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: sayuncledave; Gamecock
Feel free to show that irrefutable proof, now. ;)

I'm still waiting for the proof for this statement in post 49:

Just like Roman Catholics on FR who blame sexually abused children for the abuse they suffered by by priests.

111 posted on 05/03/2011 3:43:37 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: Jeff Chandler
What's your point?
He tried to take Hitler out and died in an SS camp.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer (February 4, 1906 – April 9, 1945) was a German Lutheran pastor, theologian and martyr. He was also a participant in the German resistance movement against Nazism and a founding member of the Confessing Church. His involvement in plans by members of the Abwehr (the German Military Intelligence Office) to assassinate Adolf Hitler resulted in his arrest in April 1943 and his subsequent execution by hanging in April 1945, 23 days before the Nazis' surrender. His view of Christianity's role in the secular world has become very influential. Source

112 posted on 05/03/2011 3:45:10 PM PDT by Gamecock (I didn't reach the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian.)
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To: Gamecock

The Gnostics claim Hitler as one of their own...
http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/What%20is%20a%20Gnostic.htm

Not sure if the blogger is a “Nick” or a “Joe” but they’re into owning Hitler and they’re right for once.

Terrific blog. heh


113 posted on 05/03/2011 3:49:01 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: Alex Murphy

“What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.” — James Madison


114 posted on 05/03/2011 3:49:38 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ( "The right to offend is far more important than any right not to be offended." - Rowan Atkinson)
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To: WPaCon; Gamecock
"I'm still waiting for the proof for this statement in post 49:"

They are frantically searching the "Googlesterium". It might take a while, but given enough time, and enough flexibility with standards, they will find an expert who agrees with them. It happens every day.

115 posted on 05/03/2011 3:49:38 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Gamecock

“Just like Roman Catholics on FR who blame sexually abused children for the abuse they suffered by by priests.”

Which ones? Are you making a blanket accusation or do you have proof which you would like to share.


116 posted on 05/03/2011 3:49:47 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: WPaCon
Was that post the reason for B-Chan’s zotting, or was he kicked off for posting something else?

It was one of several, all of them well-deserved IMO. His was a classic textbook case of Suicide By Mod.

In B-Chan's final week of posting, his tone changed starting with a post on losing friends over homosexual marriage. Over the next week, he would wax eloquently on the subjects of baby slapping, how liberals are more intelligent than conservatives, how "American conservatism as you have known it is a farce and a fraud", the aforementioned rant re monarchism, how "the America he knew left years ago", and how he believed Free Republic is "full of closeted homosexuals".

117 posted on 05/03/2011 3:51:19 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG...thank you. Thank you.)
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To: OpusatFR
Which ones? Are you making a blanket accusation or do you have proof which you would like to share.

I remember reading it in the last year, I'm looking. And no, it is not a blanket accusation.

118 posted on 05/03/2011 3:52:46 PM PDT by Gamecock (I didn't reach the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian.)
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To: Gamecock
What's your point?

My point is that if you read source material beyond Wikipedia you might learn something about the sociology of NAZI Germany. The definitive book on Bonhoeffer goes into great detail about the religious affiliations of the NAZIs. But then actual historical knowledge tends to interfere with willfully ignorant calumnies.

119 posted on 05/03/2011 3:59:19 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: Gamecock
"What's your point?.....Dietrich Bonhoeffer (February 4, 1906 – April 9, 1945) was a German Lutheran pastor, theologian and martyr."

No doubt that Bonhoffer was a saint of which there were many Protestants during the Holocaust, but you need to back away from that whole Nazi theme before you lose the little credibility you still have.

My son-in-law's uncle was a Catholic priest who miraculously survived Auschwitz. I have heard the stories first hand and seen his scars and tattoo. Estimates are that between 3 million and 5 million Catholics died in the holocaust including 50,000 Catholic clergy and religious, that is a number greater than all of the Catholic clergy in the US today.

120 posted on 05/03/2011 4:03:11 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Gamecock
Catholics and Nazism
The dark area onthe first map show the 1933 Nazi vote in Germany, the sencond show the distribution of Catholics in the 1932 census, it clearly shows Catholics didn't vote for Hitler.






(Zenit.org).- Catholics resisted Nazism during the dictatorship of Adolf Hitler in Germany, and if they didn't do it in a more decisive way, it was because of "a certain inferiority complex."

This is the thesis put forth by Austrian historian Martin Kugler during a conference titled "Sophie Scholl: Catholic Resistance to Nazism." The talk formed part of the 3rd International Film and Family Show, held in Tuesday in Barcelona and organized by CinemaNet.

The event focused on the 2005 German film "Sophie Scholl: The Last Days," which recounts the true story of Scholl, a 21-year-old member of the anti-Nazi, non-violent student group the White Rose.

Kugler is the founder of Europe4Christ.net, a multi-confessional and socio-political movement to fight moral relativism.

The Austrian historian explained that this "Catholic inferiority complex" and "fear" are analogous to the situation of Catholics today.

On the other hand, Kugler explained that Pius XII "loved the German people" and never approved of the Nazi regime.

The historian pointed out that "in 40 out of 44 speeches of Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli -- the future Pius XII -- as nuncio in Germany, there were criticisms of totalitarianism and racism."

"And if it was not more decisive when he was Pope it was because of his concern to not cause a greater persecution of Catholics, given the fact that there had been experiences of this kind," affirmed Kugler.

In light of this, "to say that he was anti-Semitic and in favor of Hitler is ridiculous," he affirmed, saying that the Holy See's diplomacy saved at least 700,000 Jews from the Holocaust during the Second World War.

121 posted on 05/03/2011 4:03:18 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Religion Moderator
I do not know of any Catholic Monarchists on this forum

Any idea of what happened to B-Chan?

122 posted on 05/03/2011 4:07:44 PM PDT by kanawa (Obama - "The only people who don't want to disclose the truth are people with something to hide.")
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To: Alex Murphy

This may be the first time I’ve said this to you, but thanks for posting that.

For some reason, I think I remember a thread where people were speculating whether B-Chan sold his freeper id, because there seemed to be a dramatic change in his posts and because people were willing to pay for the profiles of long-time freepers.


123 posted on 05/03/2011 4:11:06 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: Alex Murphy; Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; NYer; Salvation; american colleen; Desdemona; ...
Samuel F.B. Morse, is that you?

From Samuel Morse Demonstrates First Telegraph: Morse Also Achieved Fame As Painter and Politician

"In the 1830s, he [Morse] expressed his anti-Catholic prejudices in a series of newspaper articles under the pen name Brutus. He accused the monarchies of Europe of enlisting the aid of the Catholic Church to subvert American democracy by sending Catholic immigrants to take over the American West....Morse's articles, which were republished in 1835 as a book, Conspiracy Against the Liberties of the United States....In his book, Morse wrote: 'Surely American Protestants, freemen, have discernment enough to discover beneath them the cloven foot of this subtle foreign heresy. They will see that Popery is now, what it has ever been, a system of the darkest political intrigue and despotism, cloaking itself to avoid attack under the sacred name of religion. They will be deeply impressed with the truth, that Popery is a political as well as a religious system; that in this respect it differs totally from all other sects, from all other forms of religion in the country.
And to think, several years ago, I was handed a photocopied version of Morse's book outside Union Station in Washington, DC.
124 posted on 05/03/2011 4:11:05 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: bronxville
Is a 2008 thread about a blogger called “Nick” acceptable on this forum?

We have material posted to the Religion Forum which is thousands of years old written at the hand of people with a single name, so no I don't object to a 3 year old article written by Nick.
125 posted on 05/03/2011 4:14:56 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
As a fan of Roman History this seems to be a handy description of most of the officials in the later Roman Empire in the late fourth century AD, with enough changes as to be not useful as an accurate account of the Imperial Constitution of that period.

That's what I thought: the 'depth' merely comes from reading Roman history.

But the idea that a Roman Catholic monarchy would ever come to America is really, really, outtathere. Given how American really is, any "Church Established by Law" would almost certainly be evangelical Protestant. That's the faith [broadly speaking] that set down roots in the United States.

There's only one semi-realistic scenario for American becoming Catholic I've encountered: Walter Miller's A Canticle For Leibowitz. The Catholic Church saves the remnants of civilization after a full-scale nuclear war, just as it did during the Dark Ages. No other scenario makes sense.

126 posted on 05/03/2011 4:15:19 PM PDT by danielmryan
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To: Cronos; Celtic Cross

My apology. I remembered the Poland part, not what preceded it.


127 posted on 05/03/2011 4:17:48 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: danielmryan; Gamecock; Alex Murphy
"There's only one semi-realistic scenario for American becoming Catholic..."

The only way those like Gamecock and Alex Murphy would ever become Catholic is if the Ordinate approved lateral transfers and they could become Pope.

128 posted on 05/03/2011 4:22:49 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Alex Murphy
Alex, I know I'm one of the premier anti-Catholics on this forum (and I very much agreed with your assessment of Verdugo on the thread in which I lamented his banning), but I seriously hope you don't consider a Catholic monarchy to be an actual possibility. How could anyone possibly fear such a thing? It makes about as much sense as the Seventh Day Adventists and their perpetual fears of a "national sunday law."

Furthermore, although I certainly believe Catholicism is mistaken, I'm not sure that a Catholic monarchy wouldn't be an improvement over the current situation (provided they didn't force their evolutionism and higher criticism on the rest of us!). I'm sure there are far worse situations than being a religious minority in a country officially committed to another religion. All our human governments are temporary things anyway, pending the arrival of Mashiach and the establishment of the Kingdom of G-d on earth.

And yes, I'm still very much a Noachide who believes all non-Jews are bound individually and collectively by the Noachide Laws.

With all the terrible things going on right now, a Catholic monarchy is the last thing I'm worried about.

129 posted on 05/03/2011 4:26:14 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hachodesh hazeh lakhem ro'sh chodashim; ri'shon hu' lakhem lechodshey hashanah.)
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To: Natural Law
Joking aside, there has to be a real advantage to jump from the good old religion to a new one. What - I mean this seriously - does the Vatican offer Americans that it and only it can supply?
130 posted on 05/03/2011 4:27:08 PM PDT by danielmryan
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To: danielmryan
"What - I mean this seriously - does the Vatican offer Americans that it and only it can supply?"

Salvation.

131 posted on 05/03/2011 4:30:23 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: danielmryan

A Canticle for Leibowitz is a classic of post WWII science fiction.


132 posted on 05/03/2011 4:32:15 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Liberty and Union, Now and Forever, One and Inseparable -- Daniel Webster)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
I seriously hope you don't consider a Catholic monarchy to be an actual possibility. How could anyone possibly fear such a thing?....With all the terrible things going on right now, a Catholic monarchy is the last thing I'm worried about.

Nah. Don't believe the press you read about me - I'm not worried about it one bit, nor believe it to be a possibility. But I do think the Catholic preference for monarchy and feudalism might just explain the predilection for voting in Democrats.

133 posted on 05/03/2011 4:34:27 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG...thank you. Thank you.)
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To: Alex Murphy; Zionist Conspirator
I do think the Catholic preference for monarchy and feudalism might just explain the predilection for voting in Democrats.

How does egalitarian secularist socialism square with monarchist Catholicism?

134 posted on 05/03/2011 4:38:13 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Religion Moderator

How about this one...

In post #58 of this thread the source wasn’t devulged...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2712883/posts?q=1&;page=51

A quick search revealed the source as a homosexual anonyomous blogger who wrote his rampant hatefilled screed in 2007. The poster obviously felt it was fitting to regurgiate on the FR Religous Forum.

Should I have reported this...? And if I had would it have been acceptable?


135 posted on 05/03/2011 4:38:44 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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136 posted on 05/03/2011 4:41:07 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: bronxville

John Paul’s Blood to be Split Between Italy, Poland
Beliefnet ^ | April 26, 2011 | FRANCIS X. ROCCA
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2011 11:15:55 AM by Alex Murphy
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2711850/posts.

Blood of Pope John Paul to be venerated at beatification
Global Post ^ | 4/26/2011
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2011 11:58:52 AM by Alex Murphy
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2711872/posts

Here are two posts on the same topic within 48 minutes. The latter was a lot more loaded with leftie talking points (they’re a radical leftie org) so one might suspect that this was the reason, i.e., if the poster thought there was more information to add why not post it on the thread he just posted less than an hour before...


137 posted on 05/03/2011 4:45:10 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: Alex Murphy; WPaCon
B-Chan also admitted that he had long struggled with clinical depression, so that could explain some of his behavior.

Nuke, Nuts, and the Navy: or, My Struggle

138 posted on 05/03/2011 4:46:19 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480; Alex Murphy
I do think the Catholic preference for monarchy and feudalism might just explain the predilection for voting in Democrats.

How does egalitarian secularist socialism square with monarchist Catholicism?

Actually, there is a point in what Alex says. The United States lacks a European-style right wing ideology (vertical, hierarchical, organic collectivism). Since our version of a right wing is essentially Alexander Hamilton (The Money Power!!!), early Catholics latched onto the Democrat party as the closest they could come to a European right wing party (which was pretty much what certain aristocratic planters were) and many are still addicted. But then, this seems to be the way the Democrat party works (see the "redeemer"/jim crow era South).

139 posted on 05/03/2011 4:50:02 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hachodesh hazeh lakhem ro'sh chodashim; ri'shon hu' lakhem lechodshey hashanah.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; Alex Murphy

Verdugo was banned?

I must have missed that.


140 posted on 05/03/2011 4:52:15 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: Pyro7480; WPaCon
B-Chan also admitted that he had long struggled with clinical depression, so that could explain some of his behavior.

I had picked up on that, even before his flameout. The loss of friends appeared to have been a big issue for him, and "he's either getting divorced or about to commit suicide" was my first guess when he started posting those rants. Still, you don't say it if you're not thinking it at least some of the time - unless as WPaCon pointed out, maybe he sold his handle for some quick change.

141 posted on 05/03/2011 4:52:34 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG...thank you. Thank you.)
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To: bronxville
Here are two posts on the same topic within 48 minutes. The latter was a lot more loaded with leftie talking points (they’re a radical leftie org) so one might suspect that this was the reason, i.e., if the poster thought there was more information to add why not post it on the thread he just posted less than an hour before...

Ping me if you're going to talk about me.

142 posted on 05/03/2011 4:55:37 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG...thank you. Thank you.)
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To: Pyro7480

Thanks for posting the info.


143 posted on 05/03/2011 5:07:39 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: Puddleglum
The horror! If this happens, I will eat a hat of your choosing.

If this happens, there's a good chance that my head will be found inside it, so I'd wash it thoroughly if I were you. Ewww.

If not (in say, ten years), you must eat any UFO I manage to dig up outside of Roswell.

I hope it's not one of the Grey ones - an hour later, you're still hungry, plus now you have this thing growing inside of your stomach.

144 posted on 05/03/2011 5:07:50 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG...thank you. Thank you.)
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To: Alex Murphy
" ... Catholic preference for monarchy and feudalism might just explain the predilection for voting in"

Catholic votes have been far less of a factor in keeping democrat fascists in power than have the millions of blacks who claim to be Fundamentalist Protestants but who either don't vote or vote democrat. Every time someone talks about liberal Catholics or how conservative Protestants don't vote democrat I get a good belly laugh.

For every single Protestant who votes their Christian conscience each election, there is another Protestant who without fail will be voting democrat. But those democrat Protestants will be preaching the same things every Sunday as the conservative Protestants do. It doesn't take a single Catholic vote to cancel out the vast majority of conservative Protestant votes, they cancel one another out quite nicely, thank you. And the real irony is, Protestants aren't clever enough to figure that out in spite of claiming to be individually led by the Holy Spirit so well that they can unerringly interpret Scripture for themselves.

There is no group in this country more reliably democrat that the solidly Protestant, solidly conservative and Fundamentalist Christian black folks. The same fine folks who are at the prophecy conferences and conservative churches go to the voting booth and every single time vote democrat.

145 posted on 05/03/2011 5:13:51 PM PDT by Rashputin (Barry is insane., so handlers keep him medicated and on the golf course.)
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To: Alex Murphy

“Ping me if you’re going to talk about me.”

Why don’t you respond to it?


146 posted on 05/03/2011 5:32:31 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: Gamecock
I'm not surprised that that is the best that you can do w.r.t. accusing Catholics of being monarchists.

Okay, you've got two. Anybody else, or are you extrapolating those two into all Catholicism?

147 posted on 05/03/2011 5:37:39 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Rashputin
Rashputin wrote: Catholic votes have been far less of a factor in keeping democrat fascists in power than have the millions of blacks...

I'm speechless!

148 posted on 05/03/2011 5:40:21 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Natural Law; Gamecock; Alex Murphy
The only way those like Gamecock and Alex Murphy would ever become Catholic is if the Ordinate approved lateral transfers and they could become Pope.

The only way is to repent and become Christian.

149 posted on 05/03/2011 5:45:23 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: jjotto
"I'm speechless!"

LOL. If the majority of them didn't claim to be solid conservative Protestants would you still be surprised?

150 posted on 05/03/2011 5:46:23 PM PDT by Rashputin (Barry is insane., so handlers keep him medicated and on the golf course.)
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