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Predicting the Coming of Christ
CBN ^ | October 11, 2009 | Elizabeth Cutting

Posted on 05/13/2011 7:18:37 AM PDT by Bed_Zeppelin

The ending of the world has long been a matter of speculation. Many thought it was coming with the new millenium not so many years ago. It didn’t. In the early days of the world people thought a solar eclipse meant the end of the world. It didn’t. Between then and now the world’s end has been predicted over and over. We’re still here.

Time and time again the signs have been “read” and a prediction made. Time and time again the seers have been wrong. Jesus repeatedly refused to allow himself to be caught up in speculation, stating that even he did not know when the time would be. So how can any of us be so presumptive?

One of the latest, relevant predictions comes from a Mayan tablet, which was found during an excavation bearing the date December 21, 2012.1 It seemed to indicate something was to occur on that date, but it doesn’t say what that event will be.

Whether the Mayan calendar shows the world will end on a given date can be answered by the Mayans themselves. They are surprised; they know of no such theory related to 12/21/12. In an article by author Mark Stevenson, he states, “A significant time period for the Mayas does end on the date. . . But most archaeologists, astronomers and Maya say the only thing likely to hit Earth is a meteor shower of New Age philosophy, pop astronomy, internet doomsday rumors and TV specials. . .”

Further on in the article it states that “Archaeologist Guillermo Bernal of Mexico’s National Autonomous University ... notes there are other inscriptions at Mayan sites for dates far beyond 2012—including one that roughly translates into the year 4772.”2

So why would the Mayans be concerned with anything beyond December 2012 if the world is to end then? Clearly it’s another bid for sensational publicity.

Christians need have no part in all of this conjecture.

Jesus speaks about the coming of the Kingdom of God. As Christians we see the future Kingdom as fulfillment of the promise of a new order. It’s a good thing. It will be the end of all things as we now know them and is indeed the end of the world.

For those who do not follow the teachings of Christ only an ending is known to them, an ending that comes out of major destruction. A new order is not part of their understanding. So they look for signs, such as certain dates, in order to know when the end will come, presumably to make some preparation. Even from the time of the book of Daniel Jewish apoloclypic writers were concerned with signs of the last days.

In Mark 13:32 Jesus says,

But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Take heed, watch; for you do not know when the time will come.

Furthermore, there will be no prior indication that momentous things are about to happen, just as in the days of Noah, when the doubters weren’t prepared for the flood and continued eating, drinking, marrying (Luke 17:26-27), and Lot, when Sodom was obliteraterated by fire and brimstone without warning to any except Abraham and Lot (Luke 17:29). Once the kingdom is upon us, there will be no time for anything. Those who sought to make their lives secure by following their own paths to success will find that all they have done was to lose the life that was more important in the long run. Those who were obedient to Jesus, who did not regard their mortal lives as of primary importance, will find that they have gained eternal life.

It is a good thing not to know the hour, not to be caught up in the mode of fear and panic, wasting our days in idle speculation. If we were to know when the end was to be we would be lured to give in to the temptations of this world, unfitting behavior for Christians. We would be tempted to believe that when the signs come we will then have time to repent and be ready to go with him to Heaven.

What kind of discipleship is that? What kind of love and loyalty does that prove? We could be tempted to allow ourselves to be caught up in the cares of living in this world, worrying about things that have no significance for the coming kingdom. Having our minds thus occupied we could find ourselves unprepared.

It is a good thing to live every day of our lives as though it were the last, whether because death will take us or because time as we know it will end. In I Corinthians 7:17, Paul says, “...let each of you lead the life that the Lord has assigned, to which God called you.” Meaning we are to use God’s gifts to bring others into the kingdom in whatever time there is.

If we do this we will always be ready. There will be no reason for last minute, panic repentance, which can hardly be sincere having come from the selfish desire to save ourselves rather than from the loving desire to live God’s love on earth for the salvation of others. The prayer that Jesus counsels (Luke 21:36) is for “strength to escape all these things,” meaning the dissipated life of earthly pleasures and concerns mentioned earlier in this passage, so that we will be able to concentrate on our spiritual lives, thus enabling us “to stand before the Son of Man” unashamed.

There is the story in Matthew 25 of the wise and foolish maidens. Ten young women of the bridal party were to meet the bridegroom when he came. Five brought extra oil; five did not. The bridegroom was late and when he arrived the wise maidens trimmed their lamps and went out to meet him. While the others went to try to buy oil the door to the feast was closed. Jesus says, in verse 13, “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.”

True followers of Christ will trust and obey. For those who have chosen to be obedient to God, to follow in The Way, as Paul later calls Christianity, instead of being a fearsome time it will be a time to raise their voices in rejoicing. Why? Because this is the time when his obedient followers will be gathered together in the presence of our returning Lord Jesus the Christ.

TOPICS: Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: apocalypse; christ; theology
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To: helloandgoodbye
Put the whole passage in perspective by reading up a bit and you will see Yeshua was talking about not washing your hands before you eat. Not having a pork chop.

That it true BUT this verse is identical to Mark 7:19 (It is believed that the author of Matthew copied much of Mark)

Mark 7:19 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

So the point stands.

The Bible was written by Jews, about Jews, basically to Jews. Yeshua fulfilled the prophecies about His coming. He was a Jew, not a Gentile. His mother was a Jew. A Gentile messiah wouldn’t exactly fulfill Scriptures.=)

Yes, they bible was written by Jews, about Jews...and Jews have looked closely at the "fulfilled" prophecies for 2000 years. He did not fulfill them. The "300" or so claims of fulfillment are either not prophecies at all, are not about Jesus (usually David) or taken out of context.

Did he rebuild the temple? No, it was still standing. Did he bring world peace? No the world has been even more bloody in part over him. It there universal knowledge of G-d? No...not at all. Are sacrifices and the priesthood restored? No. Are the gentiles streaming to Jerusalem to learn of G-d and his law? No.

Since Jesus failed at these the church had to invent the second coming. This is taught nowhere in the hebrew bible. There will be one messiah ben David, he will accomplish all things during one normal human lifetime. He will not be divine. He will not be G-d himself.

So, the Jewish messiah ben David has not yet arrived but by the looks of world events...will soon.

Jesus is the gentile messiah since he meets Christian requirements....not any Jewish ones. He will never return.

41 posted on 05/15/2011 11:34:32 AM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: helloandgoodbye
False, look up to the beginning of the page, and you will see that as with the Matthew passage, Yeshua was talking about eating with unwashed hands. Not eating a pork chop.

Yes, I realize that is the way it starts off in Matt 15. But when you get to.... Matt 15:16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them.

It is exactly the same as Mark 7:19“Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)” That is not my says that in Mark. Christians use that as part of a proof text to eat whatever.

Talmud, ponder on the dual nature of the promised Messiah? Such as the ben Joseph/ben David

The talmud discusses messiah ben Joseph and messiah ben David (There are in fact many messiahs, Saul (a wicked messiah) David, Solomon, Hezekiah, various priests and even a gentile messiah! Cyrus of Persia) But ben Joseph and ben David are A) alive at the same time and B) two seperate personages. The events that describe the two, ie Zech 12 and others, have not occured yet and will not occur until the begining of the messianic era...end of days.

43 posted on 05/15/2011 1:53:46 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: Uri’el-2012; Bed_Zeppelin; Matchett-PI
Israel will 70 years old in 2018.

Israel is not a man. Modern Israel is not biblical Israel. The two have little to do with each other.

The date-setters in the late 1970s like Hal Lindsey saw 1988 as the key year that Jesus would return (a “generation” in the Bible being 40 years). His prediction as wrong because his starting point for counting was wrong.

"I'm convinced that the Lord is coming for His Church before the end of 1981" (Chuck Smith, Future Survival)

"Since a generation of judgment is forty years and the Tribulation period lasts seven years, I believe the Lord could come back for His Church any time before the Tribulation starts, which would mean any time before 1981. (1948 + 40 - 7 = 1981)." (Hal Lindsey, The Late Great Planet Earth)

"88 Reasons Why The Rapture Could Be In 1988." -- Edgar Whisenant

Those who suggest 2018 are just as fraudulent in their ideas as the foolish ones that have gone before. What date will you give us in 2019?

Futurist Rogue's Gallery: Clockwise from the top left: John Hagee, Hal Lindsey, Tommy Ice, Charles Taze Russell, Joel C. Rosenberg, J.R. Church, Edgar C. Whisenant, J. Randall Price, Mark Hitchcock, Harold Camping, C.I. Scofield, Tim LaHaye/Jerry B. Jenkins, Grant Jeffrey, Jack Van Impe, William Miller.

44 posted on 05/15/2011 6:38:30 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends listen to dispensationalists.")
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To: Uri’el-2012; Bed_Zeppelin; Matchett-PI
Biblical Israel vs. Modern Israel

Here are some characteristics of Biblical Israel that modern Israel does not share. The absence of these characteristics proves that modern Israel is in no sense related to Biblical Israel, therefore it cannot be a fulfillment of any biblical prophecies.

  1. Biblical Israel was established as part of the covenant made with Abraham and the promises made with the Seed, Jesus Christ. (Gen. 12:7; 13:15; 24:7; Gal. 3:16)
  2. Inclusion in Biblical Israel was by vow and obedience to God’s covenant, not strictly by lineage. (Gen. 17:23; Lev. 18:26; Rom. 2:28,29; 9:6,7)
  3. Biblical Israel was identified as a nation when they corporately vowed to abide by the law of God as given through Moses. (Exo. 19:8)
  4. Disobedience to the law of God was reason for individual excommunication from the nation of Israel, and temporal corporate punishment. (Exo. 12:15; Lev. 7:27; Lev. 18:29; Deut. 28:15)
  5. Biblical Israel was governed by God-ordained representatives in the church (the priesthood with respect to the ceremonial) and the state (elders, judges, and kings with respect to the civil) as a single and unique kingdom under God. (Lev. 13:2; Deut. 17:9; 19:12; 21:19)
  6. The judges of Biblical Israel was chosen directly by God. (Luke 22:30; James 1:1)
  7. Biblical Israel could have its nationhood status revoked through disobedience. (Matt. 21:43; John 11:48)
  8. The older covenant was never intended by God to be permanent, but was seen as giving way to a new covenant. (Jer. 31:31; Matt. 26:28; Heb. 8:13; 9:15; 12:24)
  9. For Biblical Israel the law was seen as a tutor to lead them Christ, not as a means of salvation. (Matt. 23:23; Luke 24:44; Rom. 3:20; Gal. 3:24)
  10. Faith and repentance always preceded Biblical Israel’s physical restoration and blessing. (1 Kings 8:47,48; Ezra 1:5; Jer. 27:22)
  11. Restoration is clearly seen as an act of divine intervention, even by the nations. (Ezra 1:1; Ezekiel 37:28)
  12. Restoration is predicated on spiritual rebirth. (Ezekiel 36:26-28; 37:14)
  13. Faithfulness to God in our day is measured by a proper relationship to the new covenant, not to rabbinic traditions. (Matt. 5:20; 16:6; Luke 1:72; Rom. 11:27; 2 Cor. 3:6)
  14. Modern Israel does not inhabit the land of promise. (Gen. 15:13)
  15. Modern Israel is not apportioned according to God's direction (Num. 33:54; Joshua 1:6; 13:7)
  16. Modern Israel is a large debtor nation. The ratio of public debt to GDP is higher in Israel than in the US. Biblical Israel was to lend to others. (Deut. 15:6)

45 posted on 05/15/2011 6:45:44 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends listen to dispensationalists.")
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To: topcat54



The amillennial view interprets Revelation 20 symbolically and sees the millennium not as an earthly golden age in which the world will be totally Christianized, but as the present period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on the earth through his Church. This was the view of the Protestant Reformers and is still the most common view among traditional Protestants, though not among most of the newer Evangelical and Fundamentalist groups.

Amillennialists also believe in the coexistence of good and evil on earth until the end. The tension that exists on earth between the righteous and the wicked will be resolved only by Christ’s return at the end of time. The golden age of the millennium is instead the heavenly reign of Christ with the saints, in which the Church on earth participates to some degree, though not in the glorious way it will at the Second Coming.

Amillennialists point out that the thrones of the saints who reign with Christ during the millennium appear to be set in heaven (Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4, 11:16) and that the text nowhere states that Christ is on earth during this reign with the saints.

They explain that, although the world will never be fully Christianized until the Second Coming, the millennium does have effects on earth in that Satan is bound in such a way that he cannot deceive the nations by hindering the preaching of the gospel (Rev. 20:3). They point out that Jesus spoke of the necessity of “binding the strong man” (Satan) in order to plunder his house by rescuing people from his grip (Matt. 12:29). When the disciples returned from a tour of preaching the gospel, rejoicing at how demons were subject to them, Jesus declared, “I saw Satan fall like lightning” (Luke 10:18). Thus for the gospel to move forward at all in the world, it is necessary for Satan to be bound in one sense, even if he may still be active in attacking individuals (1 Pet. 5:8).

The millennium is a golden age not when compared to the glories of the age to come, but in comparison to all prior ages of human history, in which the world was swallowed in pagan darkness. Today, a third of the human race is Christian and even more than that have repudiated pagan idols and embraced the worship of the God of Abraham.


Reformed protestant position:

a. The “a” millennial (literally meaning “no” millennium) position is the eschatological view of historic Catholic, Lutheran and Reformed Christianity. It would be my educated guess that about two-thirds of the Christian family espouse an amillennial eschatology. The amillennial position is as well the position of the vast majority of Reformed and Lutheran theologians. The position portrayed in these lectures is the Reformed understanding.

Amillennialism is understood as “present” millennialism [or “realized” millennialism], since Reformed eschatology argues for a real, present, though “invisible” non-spatial millennium.

b. Amillennialists insist that the promises made to national Israel, David and Abraham, in the OT are fulfilled by Christ and the Church during this age, which is the millennium, that is the entire period of time between the two advents of our Lord. The “thousand years” are therefore symbolic of the entire inter-advental age. Satan is bound by Christ’s victory over him and the establishment of the kingdom of God via the preaching of the gospel, and Satan is no longer free to deceive the nations, through the presence of Christ is reigning in heaven during this period with the martyrs who come out of the great tribulation. At the end of the millennial age, Christ returns in judgement of all men. The general resurrection occurs, final judgement takes place for all men and women, and a new Heaven and Earth are established.

C. In most forms of amillennialism, immediately before the return of Christ, Satan is unbound, there is a great apostasy, and a time of unprecedented satanically inspired evil. This last Satanic gasp and subsequent rebellious activity is destroyed by our Lord at his return.

a. Amillennialism has always been the majority position of the Christian family. It was first articulated by St. Augustine, and has been given a distinctive Reformed emphasis through the work of Geerhardus Vos (the “Biblical-Theological” approach). As the “dispensational” movement captured the hearts and minds of conservative American Evangelicals, amillennialism was equated with “liberalism” or Roman Catholicism. The supposed interpreting prophecy “spiritually” or “not-literally” has lead to the rejection of amillennialism by many. In addition, amillennialism suffered greatly from the failure of Reformed and Luthern writers to defend the position against the likes of Dave Hunt, Chuck Missler and Hal Lindsey, who has labeled the position as “demonic and heretical,” and the root of modern anti-semitism.

b. Leading contemporary “amill” theologians would include popular writers such as J. I. Packer, Mike Horton, [the late] Calvin seminary professor, Anthony Hoekema, and RC Sproul. In addition, all of the Reformers, as well as the Reformed and Lutheran confessional traditions, as a whole, have been amillennial.

The most important and useful amillennial work is the excellent book by Anthony A. Hoekema, The Bible and the Future (Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans, 1982).

Also helpful are: Oswald T. Allis, Prophecy and the Church (Phillipsburg: The Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1947); Arthur Lewis, The Dark Side of the Millennium (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1980); William E. Cox, Amillennialism Today (PhilIipsburg: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1966); William E. Cox, Biblical Studies in Final Things (Phillipsburg: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1966).

46 posted on 05/15/2011 7:18:54 PM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: topcat54; Bed_Zeppelin; Matchett-PI
Thank you for your thoughts and opinions

47 posted on 05/16/2011 1:40:15 PM PDT by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: The Theophilus
U-2012>Yah'shua is saying that we will know the season of His coming

The Kingdom is already here Luke 22:18 says that our LORD would not eat or drink with them until the Kingdom of God has come. In Acts 10:41 we read that soon after He rose from the dead, He ate and drank with the disciples.

Be like a Berean ; search the scriptures daily.
NAU Luke 22:18 for I say to you,
I will not drink of the fruit of the vine
from now on until the kingdom of God comes."

Acts 10:41 not to all the people, but to witnesses
who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us
who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.

I do not follow your Eisegesis.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
48 posted on 05/16/2011 1:53:56 PM PDT by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Uri’el-2012

You’re welcome! bttt

49 posted on 05/16/2011 2:02:38 PM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: The Theophilus
U-2012>The fig tree has always bee associated with Israel.

That is pure fiction generated by the Futurists, there are no passages in Scripture that associate the Fig Tree with the secular nation of Israel, ethnic Jews, or, for that matter any people or nation. Many ignorant people look at Matthew 24:32-34 and think that the Fig Tree is Israel because they want it to be and thus they eisegete that fantasy into the passage with absolutely zero support other than wishful thinking. Otherwise, please explain Luke 21:29-33 which says "Behold the fig tree, and all the other trees"

But if Futurists demand it based on some extra-biblical tradition or that it is mortal to their camp-fire story, then ask yourself this: "If the Fig Tree is Israel, then what do we make of the Curse against the Fig Tree whereupon God caused it to wither and die?" (Matthew 21:19) Because you have an even bigger problem with handling the death of Israel statement direct from God's mouth "Let no fruit grow on thee heceforward for ever." Naturally, the Futurists hate this passage and have ripped it from their Bibles since it kills the whole Fig = Israel = Grand Future theory.


NO. 2107





If you were to read this sermon,
you would learn who the fig-tree is
and why the fig tree was cursed.

Seek the face of YHvH in His WORD

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
50 posted on 05/16/2011 3:09:30 PM PDT by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Uri’el-2012

Home safe and sound.

Thanks, thanks, thanks.

51 posted on 05/16/2011 4:02:09 PM PDT by Joya (Everything is ruined. Jesus is coming back. Something to look forward to, it is more than enough.)
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To: Joya
It was mutual.

A blessing !

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

52 posted on 05/16/2011 4:31:23 PM PDT by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Uri’el-2012; Bed_Zeppelin; Matchett-PI
Thank you for your thoughts and opinions

Yes, but what date will you give us in 2019 when your end-times eisegesis fails?

53 posted on 05/18/2011 10:31:30 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends listen to dispensationalists.")
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