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Predicting the Coming of Christ
CBN ^ | October 11, 2009 | Elizabeth Cutting

Posted on 05/13/2011 7:18:37 AM PDT by Bed_Zeppelin

The ending of the world has long been a matter of speculation. Many thought it was coming with the new millenium not so many years ago. It didn’t. In the early days of the world people thought a solar eclipse meant the end of the world. It didn’t. Between then and now the world’s end has been predicted over and over. We’re still here.

Time and time again the signs have been “read” and a prediction made. Time and time again the seers have been wrong. Jesus repeatedly refused to allow himself to be caught up in speculation, stating that even he did not know when the time would be. So how can any of us be so presumptive?

One of the latest, relevant predictions comes from a Mayan tablet, which was found during an excavation bearing the date December 21, 2012.1 It seemed to indicate something was to occur on that date, but it doesn’t say what that event will be.

Whether the Mayan calendar shows the world will end on a given date can be answered by the Mayans themselves. They are surprised; they know of no such theory related to 12/21/12. In an article by author Mark Stevenson, he states, “A significant time period for the Mayas does end on the date. . . But most archaeologists, astronomers and Maya say the only thing likely to hit Earth is a meteor shower of New Age philosophy, pop astronomy, internet doomsday rumors and TV specials. . .”

Further on in the article it states that “Archaeologist Guillermo Bernal of Mexico’s National Autonomous University ... notes there are other inscriptions at Mayan sites for dates far beyond 2012—including one that roughly translates into the year 4772.”2

So why would the Mayans be concerned with anything beyond December 2012 if the world is to end then? Clearly it’s another bid for sensational publicity.

Christians need have no part in all of this conjecture.

Jesus speaks about the coming of the Kingdom of God. As Christians we see the future Kingdom as fulfillment of the promise of a new order. It’s a good thing. It will be the end of all things as we now know them and is indeed the end of the world.

For those who do not follow the teachings of Christ only an ending is known to them, an ending that comes out of major destruction. A new order is not part of their understanding. So they look for signs, such as certain dates, in order to know when the end will come, presumably to make some preparation. Even from the time of the book of Daniel Jewish apoloclypic writers were concerned with signs of the last days.

In Mark 13:32 Jesus says,

But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Take heed, watch; for you do not know when the time will come.

Furthermore, there will be no prior indication that momentous things are about to happen, just as in the days of Noah, when the doubters weren’t prepared for the flood and continued eating, drinking, marrying (Luke 17:26-27), and Lot, when Sodom was obliteraterated by fire and brimstone without warning to any except Abraham and Lot (Luke 17:29). Once the kingdom is upon us, there will be no time for anything. Those who sought to make their lives secure by following their own paths to success will find that all they have done was to lose the life that was more important in the long run. Those who were obedient to Jesus, who did not regard their mortal lives as of primary importance, will find that they have gained eternal life.

It is a good thing not to know the hour, not to be caught up in the mode of fear and panic, wasting our days in idle speculation. If we were to know when the end was to be we would be lured to give in to the temptations of this world, unfitting behavior for Christians. We would be tempted to believe that when the signs come we will then have time to repent and be ready to go with him to Heaven.

What kind of discipleship is that? What kind of love and loyalty does that prove? We could be tempted to allow ourselves to be caught up in the cares of living in this world, worrying about things that have no significance for the coming kingdom. Having our minds thus occupied we could find ourselves unprepared.

It is a good thing to live every day of our lives as though it were the last, whether because death will take us or because time as we know it will end. In I Corinthians 7:17, Paul says, “...let each of you lead the life that the Lord has assigned, to which God called you.” Meaning we are to use God’s gifts to bring others into the kingdom in whatever time there is.

If we do this we will always be ready. There will be no reason for last minute, panic repentance, which can hardly be sincere having come from the selfish desire to save ourselves rather than from the loving desire to live God’s love on earth for the salvation of others. The prayer that Jesus counsels (Luke 21:36) is for “strength to escape all these things,” meaning the dissipated life of earthly pleasures and concerns mentioned earlier in this passage, so that we will be able to concentrate on our spiritual lives, thus enabling us “to stand before the Son of Man” unashamed.

There is the story in Matthew 25 of the wise and foolish maidens. Ten young women of the bridal party were to meet the bridegroom when he came. Five brought extra oil; five did not. The bridegroom was late and when he arrived the wise maidens trimmed their lamps and went out to meet him. While the others went to try to buy oil the door to the feast was closed. Jesus says, in verse 13, “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.”

True followers of Christ will trust and obey. For those who have chosen to be obedient to God, to follow in The Way, as Paul later calls Christianity, instead of being a fearsome time it will be a time to raise their voices in rejoicing. Why? Because this is the time when his obedient followers will be gathered together in the presence of our returning Lord Jesus the Christ.


TOPICS: Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: apocalypse; christ; theology
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Those who continue to predict the coming of Christ, make themselves look foolish. The latest foolish prediction is from the May 21, 2011 - Are You Ready? bunch.
1 posted on 05/13/2011 7:18:42 AM PDT by Bed_Zeppelin
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To: Bed_Zeppelin

www.patburt.com


2 posted on 05/13/2011 7:21:04 AM PDT by stars & stripes forever
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To: Bed_Zeppelin

“Foolish” is far, far too kind a descriptor.

I took a cab the other day and the guy had a 5/12/11 end of days sticker on his dash. At the end of the trip, I paid exact change and stiffed him on a tip explaining that he certainly won’t need it. it’s the only time in my life I haven’t tipped someone. And it felt good.


3 posted on 05/13/2011 7:22:04 AM PDT by whattajoke (Let's keep Conservatism real.)
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To: whattajoke

(5/21, not 5/12)


4 posted on 05/13/2011 7:22:44 AM PDT by whattajoke (Let's keep Conservatism real.)
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To: Bed_Zeppelin

Watch out. Someone who calls herself “Outlaw Woman” on this forum told me I am a “nasty individual” for pointing out the May 21, 2011 prediction.


5 posted on 05/13/2011 7:22:48 AM PDT by La Lydia ("California: When the parasites outnumber the hosts, it's all over.")
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To: Bed_Zeppelin

Matthew 24: 26-27

“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.”


6 posted on 05/13/2011 7:28:11 AM PDT by Spruce
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To: Bed_Zeppelin

Those that predict such things do a great disservice to the Christian faith.


7 posted on 05/13/2011 7:31:31 AM PDT by TSgt ("Some folks just need killin'" - Sling Blade (2006))
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To: La Lydia
"Watch out. Someone who calls herself “Outlaw Woman” on this forum told me I am a “nasty individual” for pointing out the May 21, 2011 prediction."

If the sky opens up on that day and all these things come to pass as predicted, I will repent. Will those who made this prediction repent when May 22nd comes along and nothing has changed? No! They will merely claim they miscalculated.

8 posted on 05/13/2011 7:44:10 AM PDT by Bed_Zeppelin
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To: Bed_Zeppelin

The Maya conceived of time as a never ending circle. So it is just ignorant to interpret one of their end of cycle periods as the end of everything.


9 posted on 05/13/2011 7:46:39 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Bed_Zeppelin

Full disclosure: I was called a “nasty individual” for pointing out the May 21, 2011 prediction and asserting that anyone who presumes to predict such a specific date is a nut job. I stand by my assertion. :) I’ll try to remember to ping you on May 22 — if we’re still here.


10 posted on 05/13/2011 7:47:29 AM PDT by La Lydia ("California: When the parasites outnumber the hosts, it's all over.")
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To: Spruce

Luk 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

That “when ye think not” probably eliminates May 21, 2011 since Harold Camping made his prediction. ;oD I’m expecting The Lord’s return, but on no particular day.


11 posted on 05/13/2011 7:52:36 AM PDT by Tucker39
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To: La Lydia

I’ll be looking forward to that. :)

Nothing wrong with being excited about the coming of the Lord. But predicting the date sets one up to look like a goofball.

There is one scripture that has piqued my interest however, if someone would care to explain what it means...

“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.” Matt 24:32-34


12 posted on 05/13/2011 7:59:57 AM PDT by Bed_Zeppelin
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To: Bed_Zeppelin

“There is one scripture that has piqued my interest however, if someone would care to explain what it means...
“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.” Matt 24:32-34” ~ Bed_Zeppelin

Try this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/981906/posts?page=3D22#22


13 posted on 05/13/2011 8:10:41 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: Matchett-PI

Thanks!


14 posted on 05/13/2011 8:13:11 AM PDT by Bed_Zeppelin
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To: Bed_Zeppelin
There is one scripture that has piqued my interest however, if someone would care to explain what it means...

“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.” Matt 24:32-34

Yah'shua is saying that we will know the season of His coming

The fig tree has always bee associated with Israel.

In Psalm 90 Moses states the length of a mans life as three score and ten.

Israel will 70 years old in 2018.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
15 posted on 05/13/2011 8:27:25 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

“But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” — Matthew 24:36


16 posted on 05/13/2011 8:48:19 AM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Matchett-PI

Good answer.


17 posted on 05/13/2011 8:49:10 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: Bed_Zeppelin

You’re welcome!


18 posted on 05/13/2011 9:26:11 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: Sans-Culotte

Thank you!


19 posted on 05/13/2011 9:26:54 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: La Lydia

“... anyone who presumes to predict such a specific date is a nut job. I stand by my assertion. :)” ~ La Lydia

But the leading “end-times” nut-jobs are usually very “wealthy” nut-jobs. :)

For only _one_ instance:

Hal Lindsey’s [failed] Prophecies (Part One)

A Study of The Late Great Planet Earth
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/3958/hal1.htm
By David Mathews


20 posted on 05/13/2011 9:38:50 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: Matchett-PI

Wealth does not remedy nuttiness. And I have nothing but distain for those who knowingly prey on others by exploiting their fear and uncertainty, regardless of their religion or beliefs. I’ll let you figure out who that references.


21 posted on 05/13/2011 9:48:29 AM PDT by La Lydia ("California: When the parasites outnumber the hosts, it's all over.")
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To: TSgt

“Those that predict such things do a great disservice to the Christian faith.” ~ TSgt

They’re actually guilty of taking God’s name in vain when it gets right down to it:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2687844/posts?page=750#750


22 posted on 05/13/2011 9:49:42 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: Celtic Cross
“But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” — Matthew 24:36

If you were familiar with ancient Jewish writings
one of the descriptions of the YHvH commanded
Feast of Trumpets is: you will not know the day nor hour.

You are aware that Yah'shua is the Jewish Messiah.

You are aware that the theme of book of Matthew
describes Yah'shua as the Jewish Messiah to Jews.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
23 posted on 05/13/2011 10:21:01 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012
You are aware that Yah'shua is the Jewish Messiah.

No....He is the Christian messiah not the Jewish messiah.

You are aware that the theme of book of Matthew describes Yah'shua as the Jewish Messiah to Jews.

Matthew did a lousy job of evangelizing the Jewish people.

MATTHEW’S ERRORS, DISTORTIONS & MISQUOTATIONS

Over twenty times in the gospel of Matthew, goes out of his way to tell of prophecy fulfillment. By doing so, the author of Matthew had to misquote, misinterpret verses in his favor, take verses out of context, or simply make them up to reach his goal. Comparing what the author of Matthew wrote to the Old Testament―the Hebrew Bible; we find the following:

CONTRADICTS OLD TESTAMENT

Matthew 1:2―15 – His list of generations does not agree with l Chronicles Ch. 1―3 Matt. 1:16 – Trying so hard to make Jesus appear to come from David's lineage that he ignored Jewish law. The Hebrew bible states that a Hebrew's genealogy and tribal membership is transmitted exclusively through one’s PHYSICAL father, never the mother. (Numbers 1:18 Jeremiah 33:17)Matthew has Jesus genealogy through the cursed King Jeconiah, who G-d told him no descendant of his would ever sit on the throne of David. This disqualifies Jesus. Period. Matt.5:43 – had Jesus say, “thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy.” Leviticus 19:18 does not mention any enemy, only “…love thy neighbour as thyself.” Matt. 15:11 – “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.” Contradicted by all the dietary laws in the Hebrew bible.

MISQUOTING, TAKING OUT OF CONTEXT AND ALTERING ISAIAH

Matt. 1:23 – Mistakenly uses the Septuagint word for virgin instead of Hebrew “HaAlma”, the young woman. Matt. 1:23 – Misquotes Isaiah 7:14, “they” will call Jesus Immanuel, whereas Isaiah wrote “his mother” would call him Immanuel – not “they.” Jesus was not named Immanuel. Matt. 3:3 – Misinterprets and alters Isaiah 40:3 – “Prepare the way of the Lord.” Not so. Matt. 4:15 – Added “Galilee of the Gentiles” to Isaiah 9:1―2. Not in the Hebrew Tanakh (OT). Matt. 8:17 – Took Isaiah 53:4 out of context – Isaiah was relating to a leper (nagua). Matt. 12:17―21 – Taking Isaiah 42:1―4 out of context – the Servant was Israel four times. And then changes verse 21 to read: "and in his name shall the gentiles trust" (Isaiah 42.1―4). Matt. 13.14―15 – Took out of context Isaiah 6:9―10 of people being “blind”

MISQUOTING AND DISTORTING JEWISH PROPHETS

Matt. 2:5―6 – Misinterprets Micah 5:2 ― the Messiah coming from Bethlehem. It was David a Bethlemite, born in Bethlehem and from his seed would come the messiah. Matt. 2:15 –Taking Hosea 11:1 out of context, Jesus being called out of Egypt. It was Israel who was called out of Egypt. Matt. 2:17―18 – Distorts meaning of Jeremiah 31:1―17 of Rachel weeping. Rachel doesn’t weep for martyred children. Matt. 11.10 – By changing the pronoun in Malachi 3.1 “before ME” or “before YOU”? Matt. 13:35 – The Christ will speak in parables – distorting Psalm 78:2 Matt. 21:1―7 – Jesus riding on two donkeys at the same time – good trick ― (Zechariah 9:9) Matt. 22:43―44 – Capitalizes the second lord – altering the meaning of Psalm 110:1 There are no capital letters in Hebrew. Matt. 23:35 Mistakenly gave Zechariah’s father the wrong son. Zechariah was the son of Jehoiada, not Barachiah. II Chronicles 24:20――21 Matt. 27:9 – Quoted the wrong prophet ― was not Jeremiah but Zechariah Matt. 27:9 – Book of Zechariah was never about any “potter’s field”

Mathew wrote; “…from the blood of righteous Abel unto Zacharias, son of Barachias, whom you slew between the temple and the altar” (23:35). According to Tanakh, it was Zechariah (Zacharias) son of Jehoiada who was killed by the Temple (ll Chronicles 24:20―21). There is no evidence in the Hebrew bible or in any other writings that Zechariah the Prophet was murdered, let alone killed in the Temple. The First Temple had already been destroyed in Zechariah's time. CONTRADICTS OTHER GOSPELS

Matt 2.12 – Contradicts Luke about going to Egypt after Jesus’ birth. Matt 9:9 – Becoming one of the 12 conflicts with Luke and John. Matt 27:57-66 ― Disagrees with Mark, Luke and John at the “burial scene”

MAKING UP STORIES

Matt Chapter 2 not verified by any other writer and not logical Matt 2:16 – Got mixed up about Pharaoh & Herod’s Killing of the innocent babies (read the infanticide in Exodus 1:15―22 regarding Pharaoh being told of the Messiah) Matt 2:23 – Jesus dwelt in a city called Nazareth that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, he shall be called a Nazarene”. No prophet ever said this, the verse doesn’t exist. Matt 23:37 ― [thou] that killest the prophets. Which prophets did the Jewish people kill? Matt 27:51 ― And behold the veil of the temple was rent in twain – event never happened, there is zero record of this. Matt 27:52 ― The graves were opened and the dead went to Jerusalem – never happened, zero record of this. Matthew 9:9 ―The author wrote in the third person. This was unusual as no other author wrote that way. Makes one wonder if Matthew himself wrote this book.

Two things are known:

(1) Matthew, IF he was Jewish, knew very little Hebrew and did not understand the Hebrew Bible, and

(2) He knew very little about Jewish law, since he relied so much on the Greek Septuagint.

The Jewish Scribes and rabbis only translated the first five books of Moses in the LXX Septuagint. There is no record who wrote the rest of the Hebrew bible, presumably they were not Jews. That means that the Greeks translated Isaiah and the prophets and are responsible for the changing of the word “young woman” in the Hebrew to “virgin” in the Greek ― a blatant mistranslation.

24 posted on 05/13/2011 11:53:48 AM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960
You provide a plethora of anti-missionary statements.

Please allow me some time to answer each in detail.

In the mean time:

Was Yah'shua not a Jew ?

Was He not from the line of David ?

Was Yah'shua not born in Bethlehem ?

Was the inheritance exception granted for
the daughters of Zelophehad not in play ?

Was not the LXX created to evangelize hellenized Jews ?

The scholars began with the Torah and later completed the entire Tanach.

They included in addition some non-canonical books which the Roman "church" employ.

The LXX was written during the 3rd through 1st centuries BCE.

I will provide a detailed response after some research.

I might start with the anti-anti-missionary tracts.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

25 posted on 05/13/2011 12:41:22 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: blasater1960
Matthew is not the only Jew you've got a problem with. You need to take your beef to the apostle John. Were he to respond to your post, he might say this: 1 John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: The ones he was writing to knew the truth, Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah of the Jews (Christ = Messiah). Those who say he is not are liars and antichrist.
26 posted on 05/13/2011 3:42:05 PM PDT by sasportas
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: UriĀ’el-2012
Please allow me some time to answer each in detail.

You really dont have to unless you want...I just ask you consider the points...

Was Yah'shua not a Jew ?

Jesus>Ἰησοῦς>יְהוֹשׁוּעַ>Joshua was a Jew who did not not meet the requirements of mashiach ben David.

Was He not from the line of David ?

No. Matthew has his genealogy coming through Joseph by the cursed King Jeconiah who G-d forbids his descendants to sit on the throne of David. And Joseph is not his biological father. Luke has his genealogy through Mary (even though it doesnt say Mary anywhere) through Nathan instead of Solomon. The mashiach MUST come through the line of David and Solomon. Tribal affiliation is NEVER through the mother. He fails on 4 accounts to meet the requirement of being of Davidic line.

Was Yah'shua not born in Bethlehem ?

Look closely...David was born in Bethlehem...the Davidic line comes from Bethlehem...not that mashiach ben David comes from Bethlehem.

Was the inheritance exception granted for the daughters of Zelophehad not in play ?

No..that only pertained to inherited property. If a woman inherits property from her father because there are no brothers, that property has to stay within that tribe. Tribal affiliation is only through the biological father, including cases of adoption. If Jesus had no earthly father, he had no tribal affiliation. Plain as that.

The scholars began with the Torah and later completed the entire Tanach.

The Rabbi's who translated the Torah for Ptolemy only did so because of the request to learn the LAW of the Jews. The Rabbi's only did the first 5 books. The rest was done over time and by Matthews time was corrupt. The Rabbis would never have translated certain words the way the LXX is recorded. It totally changes the meaning to the text from the Hebrew.... further proof is the apocryphal books of the RCC included in the LXX. The Jews rejected those books.

28 posted on 05/13/2011 4:21:39 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960
Shabbat Shalom !
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

29 posted on 05/13/2011 4:54:33 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: sasportas
I dont accept your progressive revelation...and you dont accept the Mormons. And that is exactly how Mormons view you...as liars!

Is there world peace? A third temple? A restored priesthood? Restored sacrifices? A universal knowledge of G-d? etc...No. He wasnt the messiah. The Hebrew bible NEVER teaches a second try...a second coming...a do-over. Nor that he will be divine, nor that he will kill himself for the sins of the world (human sacrifice is forbidden) etc....

30 posted on 05/13/2011 4:58:25 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012
There is one scripture that has piqued my interest however, if someone would care to explain what it means...

As well it should since your presuppositions are all wrong (OK, maybe not the Psalm 90 reference, but nonetheless, it is irrelevant)

Yah'shua is saying that we will know the season of His coming

The Kingdom is already here Luke 22:18 says that our LORD would not eat or drink with them until the Kingdom of God has come. In Acts 10:41 we read that soon after He rose from the dead, He ate and drank with the disciples.

The fig tree has always bee associated with Israel.

That is pure fiction generated by the Futurists, there are no passages in Scripture that associate the Fig Tree with the secular nation of Israel, ethnic Jews, or, for that matter any people or nation. Many ignorant people look at Matthew 24:32-34 and think that the Fig Tree is Israel because they want it to be and thus they eisegete that fantasy into the passage with absolutely zero support other than wishful thinking. Otherwise, please explain Luke 21:29-33 which says "Behold the fig tree, and all the other trees"

But if Futurists demand it based on some extra-biblical tradition or that it is mortal to their camp-fire story, then ask yourself this: "If the Fig Tree is Israel, then what do we make of the Curse against the Fig Tree whereupon God caused it to wither and die?" (Matthew 21:19) Because you have an even bigger problem with handling the death of Israel statement direct from God's mouth "Let no fruit grow on thee heceforward for ever." Naturally, the Futurists hate this passage and have ripped it from their Bibles since it kills the whole Fig = Israel = Grand Future theory.

Israel will 70 years old in 2018.

This is called "moving the field goal". The whole age of Israel foolishness was made largely to deal with the wresting of Mt 24:34 "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." because Futurists want to be in on the action and can't possibly have anything really fulfilled before they were around to witness and experience it, "this generation" actually meant "that generation" and "generation" was transmogrified from the people standing before him, to a secular UN creation in the 20th century thousands of years from the "very soon" comment made by our LORD. A generation was always considered to be forty years, and thus every Dispensationalist/Futurist was pegging their Rapture on the date of the Jewish calendar's New Year using the Roman Catholic Gregorian calendar 1988 - naturally combining a traditional Jewish calendar with a calendar not yet in existence by over a millennia and a half at the time of the prediction (these are prime example of Futurist logic and interpretational hermeneutics.)

But if you talk to Tim LaHaye, author of the wildly popular "Left Behind" series and considered THE authority and pillar of the Futurist cabal, originally had the birth date of Israel back at the signing of the Balfour Declaration of 1917. Even with your "70 year" theory, that still places it at or around 1988 which as we all know was not the date of the alleged "rapture".

In Psalm 90 Moses states the length of a mans life as three score and ten.

I really can't imagine, other than the pathology of wanting to be "that generation" that experiences the alleged "Rapture" why this would matter in any context. First of all, didn't you just compare Israel to a tree? If so, then what does that have to do with the life span of a human? If you are trying to reckon the years for a generation, you are asking more out of the word than it can bare. Generally speaking, a "generation" is not a period of time as so much as it means "the people of this time". Let's say that our LORD meant forty years, since forty years is the magic number gratuitously assigned to redefine a generation by the Futurists. So when He said "this generation", what was year zero for that generation for when they start counting? In Futurist's parlance, clearly that stopwatch doesn't get flicked on to at least two thousand years later. And is it Balfour as LaHaye originally advocated or is it 1948 when younger people who want to be in on the action claim it to be?

If you want to do some synthesis to generate a more meaningful number, I'll give you "100" as the number of years in a generation based on Genesis 15:13,16. "they shall afflict them four hundred years"(13) followed by the divisor "in the fourth generation they shall come hither again". I do this as a public service and because I don't want you to walk away with the idea that all I want to do is shoot down theories - you have a new date to look forward to 2048.

So go forth and enjoy the life God gave you and put aside this foolish speculation about a fantasy Rapture. When our LORD returns, it won't be a U-Turn somewhere at cruising altitude for modern jet-craft, it will be to come and judge the Earth once and for all.

31 posted on 05/13/2011 5:59:57 PM PDT by The Theophilus (Obama's Key to win 2012: Ban Haloperidol)
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To: blasater1960

One of the most oft-quoted OT passages in the NT is Psalms 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

It is easy to see why. Most Jews saw only one coming of the Messiah, when he comes he puts all enemies under his footstool. Yet here was a verse that prophesied a session of Christ at the right hand. The present interadvent session of Christ, between his first and second coming. That verse must have meant a lot to the early Jewish church.

There are many verses in the gospels, Acts, and the epistles that tell us Christ fulfilled this prophecy at his ascension to heaven, at which time he was raised to the right hand.

His first coming was as a Lamb, sacrificial, his second coming will be as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. The kingly tribe (lion). Which is what we see in Revelation chapter five, Christ as both Lamb and Lion. A great revelation, no doubt, to the early Jewish church: Lamb = the first coming, Lion = the second coming.

His second coming judgmental in nature, like a Lion, his first sacrificial in nature, like a Lamb dying for the sins of the world, Jew and Gentile.

In between the two comings, he sits at the right hand position (probation symbolism), awaiting all enemies being put under his feet.


32 posted on 05/13/2011 6:57:03 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

Yes, He’s the Jewish Messiah, too, as you noted. :)


33 posted on 05/14/2011 5:12:20 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: sasportas
One of the most oft-quoted OT passages in the NT is Psalms 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Yes, one of the most misquoted of the Jewish scriptures. Psalm 110 has nothing to do with Jesus. The KJV butchers the Hebrew in 110 to make it appear to be about Jesus.

From Messiah Truth:

Psalm110

His first coming was as a Lamb, sacrificial, his second coming will be as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. The kingly tribe (lion). Which is what we see in Revelation chapter five, Christ as both Lamb and Lion. A great revelation, no doubt, to the early Jewish church: Lamb = the first coming, Lion = the second coming.

The Hebrew scriptures simply do not teach this anywhere. This notion is created by the church through mistranslation and pure eisegesis of the text.

Human sacrifice is forbidden, human vicarious atonement is forbidden, Jesus did not die on the altar, did not die of sudden blood loss at the neck, he suffocated. His ofal and fat were not burned. In everyway imaginal...he was not an acceptable sacrifice. The sacrifical god-man for sin is purely a grecco-roman concept.

The 3rd temple will be built, the priesthood restored, sacrifices are returning forever, mashiach will be a noraml man who will live and die and pass the throne of David to other Kings forever. The gentiles will come to Jerusalem to learn of G-d and his law. Isaiah 2:3

34 posted on 05/14/2011 7:11:08 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

Shavua tov!


35 posted on 05/14/2011 7:12:28 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

I see, blasater a 21st century Jew knows more about these Messianic issues than the early 1st century Jews. Which Jews to believe? They lived two thousand years closer to these Messianic events than you. You are just a Johnny come lately.

I’m sure the early Jewish Christians were aware of the criticisms you bring up, yet they rejected your notions choosing Jesus Christ. Your notions are nothing new, antichrists, both Jew and Gentile, have used them for centuries.


36 posted on 05/14/2011 7:43:43 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas

The more early Christians developed a theology, the fewer Jews were attracted.


37 posted on 05/14/2011 7:54:24 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: sasportas
I see, blasater a 21st century Jew knows more about these Messianic issues than the early 1st century Jews.

No...we have access to the same scripture as they did. Most of them rejected the man-god. It was mainly the hellenized Jews who didnt know Hebrew that got caught up in the lies of Paul the roman.

We the Jews of today, like our forefathers, have always known that the man-god is incompatible with the word of G-d.

38 posted on 05/14/2011 8:06:09 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

If you and jjotto want to be enemies of Jesus Christ that’s your business. That is who he is going to put under his feet at his second coming. It won’t be the sissy looking, long haired hippy looking, Jesus of the Catholic artists either. He comes the next time as the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

You see, the apostle Paul, Jewish not Roman, was right all along when he said repeatedly in his epistles, this boils down to one thing: faith. Either you believe in Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world, the prophesied king of the world at his second coming (lion of the tribe of Judah) or you don’t.

I think it is much better to believe in him now as the Lamb of God, and then at his second coming as the Lion of the tribe of Judah, rather than meeting him as the Lion of the tribe of Judah...without first having believing in him as the Lamb of God.


39 posted on 05/14/2011 8:37:30 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas
this boils down to one thing: faith.

This is a huge misnomer. When you read the OT, there is not one scripture that ever says that the messiah must be believed by faith. Not one. Why?

Because when messiah comes, it will take NO FAITH. It will be obvious to all. The events will unfold so clearly and plainly, all will understand from the least to the greatest. Worldwide.

The OT NEVER teaches one man taking the sins of the world or of another person. Ezek 18 and other...each man is responsible for his own sin. Personal responsibility! G-d wants us to deal with him directly....just as Noah did, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, Hezekiah etc....Each man deals with G-d directly regarding his own sin. No god-man required. G-d doesnt give us the Torah at Sinai....tell us what we need to do and what we CAN do (Dt 30)and then 1500 years later say....You cant do it! You are not responsible! This god-man will do it for you! He is my son... Oh and he is really me! That would mean that G-d is deceptive and a liar. He tells us we can do it and we really cant? He gives us hope and it is really hopeless? What kind of god is that?? Deceptive and duplicitous? G-d forbid.

I am not anti-messiah...I am pro messiah...proG-d...Just the right messiah...who will take NO FAITH when the time comes.

40 posted on 05/14/2011 9:46:31 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: helloandgoodbye
Put the whole passage in perspective by reading up a bit and you will see Yeshua was talking about not washing your hands before you eat. Not having a pork chop.

That it true BUT this verse is identical to Mark 7:19 (It is believed that the author of Matthew copied much of Mark)

Mark 7:19 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

So the point stands.

The Bible was written by Jews, about Jews, basically to Jews. Yeshua fulfilled the prophecies about His coming. He was a Jew, not a Gentile. His mother was a Jew. A Gentile messiah wouldn’t exactly fulfill Scriptures.=)

Yes, they bible was written by Jews, about Jews...and Jews have looked closely at the "fulfilled" prophecies for 2000 years. He did not fulfill them. The "300" or so claims of fulfillment are either not prophecies at all, are not about Jesus (usually David) or taken out of context.

Did he rebuild the temple? No, it was still standing. Did he bring world peace? No the world has been even more bloody in part over him. It there universal knowledge of G-d? No...not at all. Are sacrifices and the priesthood restored? No. Are the gentiles streaming to Jerusalem to learn of G-d and his law? No.

Since Jesus failed at these the church had to invent the second coming. This is taught nowhere in the hebrew bible. There will be one messiah ben David, he will accomplish all things during one normal human lifetime. He will not be divine. He will not be G-d himself.

So, the Jewish messiah ben David has not yet arrived but by the looks of world events...will soon.

Jesus is the gentile messiah since he meets Christian requirements....not any Jewish ones. He will never return.

41 posted on 05/15/2011 11:34:32 AM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: helloandgoodbye
False, look up to the beginning of the page, and you will see that as with the Matthew passage, Yeshua was talking about eating with unwashed hands. Not eating a pork chop.

Yes, I realize that is the way it starts off in Matt 15. But when you get to.... Matt 15:16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them.

It is exactly the same as Mark 7:19“Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)” That is not my commentary...it says that in Mark. Christians use that as part of a proof text to eat whatever.

Talmud, ponder on the dual nature of the promised Messiah? Such as the ben Joseph/ben David

The talmud discusses messiah ben Joseph and messiah ben David (There are in fact many messiahs, Saul (a wicked messiah) David, Solomon, Hezekiah, various priests and even a gentile messiah! Cyrus of Persia) But ben Joseph and ben David are A) alive at the same time and B) two seperate personages. The events that describe the two, ie Zech 12 and others, have not occured yet and will not occur until the begining of the messianic era...end of days.

43 posted on 05/15/2011 1:53:46 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012; Bed_Zeppelin; Matchett-PI
Israel will 70 years old in 2018.

Israel is not a man. Modern Israel is not biblical Israel. The two have little to do with each other.

The date-setters in the late 1970s like Hal Lindsey saw 1988 as the key year that Jesus would return (a “generation” in the Bible being 40 years). His prediction as wrong because his starting point for counting was wrong.

"I'm convinced that the Lord is coming for His Church before the end of 1981" (Chuck Smith, Future Survival)

"Since a generation of judgment is forty years and the Tribulation period lasts seven years, I believe the Lord could come back for His Church any time before the Tribulation starts, which would mean any time before 1981. (1948 + 40 - 7 = 1981)." (Hal Lindsey, The Late Great Planet Earth)

"88 Reasons Why The Rapture Could Be In 1988." -- Edgar Whisenant

Those who suggest 2018 are just as fraudulent in their ideas as the foolish ones that have gone before. What date will you give us in 2019?

Futurist Rogue's Gallery: Clockwise from the top left: John Hagee, Hal Lindsey, Tommy Ice, Charles Taze Russell, Joel C. Rosenberg, J.R. Church, Edgar C. Whisenant, J. Randall Price, Mark Hitchcock, Harold Camping, C.I. Scofield, Tim LaHaye/Jerry B. Jenkins, Grant Jeffrey, Jack Van Impe, William Miller.

44 posted on 05/15/2011 6:38:30 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends listen to dispensationalists.")
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To: UriĀ’el-2012; Bed_Zeppelin; Matchett-PI
Biblical Israel vs. Modern Israel

Here are some characteristics of Biblical Israel that modern Israel does not share. The absence of these characteristics proves that modern Israel is in no sense related to Biblical Israel, therefore it cannot be a fulfillment of any biblical prophecies.

  1. Biblical Israel was established as part of the covenant made with Abraham and the promises made with the Seed, Jesus Christ. (Gen. 12:7; 13:15; 24:7; Gal. 3:16)
  2. Inclusion in Biblical Israel was by vow and obedience to God’s covenant, not strictly by lineage. (Gen. 17:23; Lev. 18:26; Rom. 2:28,29; 9:6,7)
  3. Biblical Israel was identified as a nation when they corporately vowed to abide by the law of God as given through Moses. (Exo. 19:8)
  4. Disobedience to the law of God was reason for individual excommunication from the nation of Israel, and temporal corporate punishment. (Exo. 12:15; Lev. 7:27; Lev. 18:29; Deut. 28:15)
  5. Biblical Israel was governed by God-ordained representatives in the church (the priesthood with respect to the ceremonial) and the state (elders, judges, and kings with respect to the civil) as a single and unique kingdom under God. (Lev. 13:2; Deut. 17:9; 19:12; 21:19)
  6. The judges of Biblical Israel was chosen directly by God. (Luke 22:30; James 1:1)
  7. Biblical Israel could have its nationhood status revoked through disobedience. (Matt. 21:43; John 11:48)
  8. The older covenant was never intended by God to be permanent, but was seen as giving way to a new covenant. (Jer. 31:31; Matt. 26:28; Heb. 8:13; 9:15; 12:24)
  9. For Biblical Israel the law was seen as a tutor to lead them Christ, not as a means of salvation. (Matt. 23:23; Luke 24:44; Rom. 3:20; Gal. 3:24)
  10. Faith and repentance always preceded Biblical Israel’s physical restoration and blessing. (1 Kings 8:47,48; Ezra 1:5; Jer. 27:22)
  11. Restoration is clearly seen as an act of divine intervention, even by the nations. (Ezra 1:1; Ezekiel 37:28)
  12. Restoration is predicated on spiritual rebirth. (Ezekiel 36:26-28; 37:14)
  13. Faithfulness to God in our day is measured by a proper relationship to the new covenant, not to rabbinic traditions. (Matt. 5:20; 16:6; Luke 1:72; Rom. 11:27; 2 Cor. 3:6)
  14. Modern Israel does not inhabit the land of promise. (Gen. 15:13)
  15. Modern Israel is not apportioned according to God's direction (Num. 33:54; Joshua 1:6; 13:7)
  16. Modern Israel is a large debtor nation. The ratio of public debt to GDP is higher in Israel than in the US. Biblical Israel was to lend to others. (Deut. 15:6)

45 posted on 05/15/2011 6:45:44 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends listen to dispensationalists.")
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To: topcat54

bttt

Amillennialism

The amillennial view interprets Revelation 20 symbolically and sees the millennium not as an earthly golden age in which the world will be totally Christianized, but as the present period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on the earth through his Church. This was the view of the Protestant Reformers and is still the most common view among traditional Protestants, though not among most of the newer Evangelical and Fundamentalist groups.

Amillennialists also believe in the coexistence of good and evil on earth until the end. The tension that exists on earth between the righteous and the wicked will be resolved only by Christ’s return at the end of time. The golden age of the millennium is instead the heavenly reign of Christ with the saints, in which the Church on earth participates to some degree, though not in the glorious way it will at the Second Coming.

Amillennialists point out that the thrones of the saints who reign with Christ during the millennium appear to be set in heaven (Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4, 11:16) and that the text nowhere states that Christ is on earth during this reign with the saints.

They explain that, although the world will never be fully Christianized until the Second Coming, the millennium does have effects on earth in that Satan is bound in such a way that he cannot deceive the nations by hindering the preaching of the gospel (Rev. 20:3). They point out that Jesus spoke of the necessity of “binding the strong man” (Satan) in order to plunder his house by rescuing people from his grip (Matt. 12:29). When the disciples returned from a tour of preaching the gospel, rejoicing at how demons were subject to them, Jesus declared, “I saw Satan fall like lightning” (Luke 10:18). Thus for the gospel to move forward at all in the world, it is necessary for Satan to be bound in one sense, even if he may still be active in attacking individuals (1 Pet. 5:8).

The millennium is a golden age not when compared to the glories of the age to come, but in comparison to all prior ages of human history, in which the world was swallowed in pagan darkness. Today, a third of the human race is Christian and even more than that have repudiated pagan idols and embraced the worship of the God of Abraham.

<>

Reformed protestant position:
http://www.spiritone.com/~wing/esc_chrt.htm

a. The “a” millennial (literally meaning “no” millennium) position is the eschatological view of historic Catholic, Lutheran and Reformed Christianity. It would be my educated guess that about two-thirds of the Christian family espouse an amillennial eschatology. The amillennial position is as well the position of the vast majority of Reformed and Lutheran theologians. The position portrayed in these lectures is the Reformed understanding.

Amillennialism is understood as “present” millennialism [or “realized” millennialism], since Reformed eschatology argues for a real, present, though “invisible” non-spatial millennium.

b. Amillennialists insist that the promises made to national Israel, David and Abraham, in the OT are fulfilled by Christ and the Church during this age, which is the millennium, that is the entire period of time between the two advents of our Lord. The “thousand years” are therefore symbolic of the entire inter-advental age. Satan is bound by Christ’s victory over him and the establishment of the kingdom of God via the preaching of the gospel, and Satan is no longer free to deceive the nations, through the presence of Christ is reigning in heaven during this period with the martyrs who come out of the great tribulation. At the end of the millennial age, Christ returns in judgement of all men. The general resurrection occurs, final judgement takes place for all men and women, and a new Heaven and Earth are established.

C. In most forms of amillennialism, immediately before the return of Christ, Satan is unbound, there is a great apostasy, and a time of unprecedented satanically inspired evil. This last Satanic gasp and subsequent rebellious activity is destroyed by our Lord at his return.

a. Amillennialism has always been the majority position of the Christian family. It was first articulated by St. Augustine, and has been given a distinctive Reformed emphasis through the work of Geerhardus Vos (the “Biblical-Theological” approach). As the “dispensational” movement captured the hearts and minds of conservative American Evangelicals, amillennialism was equated with “liberalism” or Roman Catholicism. The supposed interpreting prophecy “spiritually” or “not-literally” has lead to the rejection of amillennialism by many. In addition, amillennialism suffered greatly from the failure of Reformed and Luthern writers to defend the position against the likes of Dave Hunt, Chuck Missler and Hal Lindsey, who has labeled the position as “demonic and heretical,” and the root of modern anti-semitism.

b. Leading contemporary “amill” theologians would include popular writers such as J. I. Packer, Mike Horton, [the late] Calvin seminary professor, Anthony Hoekema, and RC Sproul. In addition, all of the Reformers, as well as the Reformed and Lutheran confessional traditions, as a whole, have been amillennial.

The most important and useful amillennial work is the excellent book by Anthony A. Hoekema, The Bible and the Future (Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans, 1982).
http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Future-Anthony-Hoekema/dp/0802808514

Also helpful are: Oswald T. Allis, Prophecy and the Church (Phillipsburg: The Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1947); Arthur Lewis, The Dark Side of the Millennium (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1980); William E. Cox, Amillennialism Today (PhilIipsburg: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1966); William E. Cox, Biblical Studies in Final Things (Phillipsburg: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1966).


46 posted on 05/15/2011 7:18:54 PM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: topcat54; Bed_Zeppelin; Matchett-PI
Thank you for your thoughts and opinions

47 posted on 05/16/2011 1:40:15 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: The Theophilus
U-2012>Yah'shua is saying that we will know the season of His coming

The Kingdom is already here Luke 22:18 says that our LORD would not eat or drink with them until the Kingdom of God has come. In Acts 10:41 we read that soon after He rose from the dead, He ate and drank with the disciples.

Be like a Berean ; search the scriptures daily.
NAU Luke 22:18 for I say to you,
I will not drink of the fruit of the vine
from now on until the kingdom of God comes."

Acts 10:41 not to all the people, but to witnesses
who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us
who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.

I do not follow your Eisegesis.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
48 posted on 05/16/2011 1:53:56 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

You’re welcome! bttt


49 posted on 05/16/2011 2:02:38 PM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: The Theophilus
U-2012>The fig tree has always bee associated with Israel.

That is pure fiction generated by the Futurists, there are no passages in Scripture that associate the Fig Tree with the secular nation of Israel, ethnic Jews, or, for that matter any people or nation. Many ignorant people look at Matthew 24:32-34 and think that the Fig Tree is Israel because they want it to be and thus they eisegete that fantasy into the passage with absolutely zero support other than wishful thinking. Otherwise, please explain Luke 21:29-33 which says "Behold the fig tree, and all the other trees"

But if Futurists demand it based on some extra-biblical tradition or that it is mortal to their camp-fire story, then ask yourself this: "If the Fig Tree is Israel, then what do we make of the Curse against the Fig Tree whereupon God caused it to wither and die?" (Matthew 21:19) Because you have an even bigger problem with handling the death of Israel statement direct from God's mouth "Let no fruit grow on thee heceforward for ever." Naturally, the Futurists hate this passage and have ripped it from their Bibles since it kills the whole Fig = Israel = Grand Future theory.

THE WITHERED FIG TREE

NO. 2107

DELIVERED ON LORD’S-DAY MORNING,

SEPTEMBER 29TH, 1889,

BY C. H. SPURGEON,

AT THE METROPOLITAN TABERNACLE, NEWINGTON

If you were to read this sermon,
you would learn who the fig-tree is
and why the fig tree was cursed.

Seek the face of YHvH in His WORD

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
50 posted on 05/16/2011 3:09:30 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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