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Last Judgement #28 [Invitation to the New Church]
e-mail ^ | 1758 | Emmanuel Swedenborg

Posted on 05/22/2011 10:02:42 AM PDT by DaveMSmith

Last Judgment 28

V. THE LAST JUDGMENT IS TO BE WHERE ALL ARE TOGETHER, AND SO IN THE SPIRITUAL WORLD, NOT ON EARTH

The general belief about the Last Judgment is that the Lord accompanied by angels will appear in glory in the clouds of heaven, and He will then raise up from their graves all who have ever lived from the beginning of creation, clothe their souls with a body, and, when they have been summoned to meet, judge them, sending those who have lived good lives to everlasting life or heaven, and those who lived wicked lives to everlasting death or hell.

The churches have taken this belief from the literal sense of the Word, and there was no possibility of removing it so long as it remained unknown that everything mentioned in the Word has a spiritual sense; and this sense is the real Word, the literal sense serving as its basis or foundation. Without this kind of literal sense the Word could not have been Divine, and have served both heaven and the world as a means of instruction on how to live and what to believe, and as a means of conjunction. So if anyone knows the spiritual things corresponding to natural things in the Word, he can know that the Lord's coming in the clouds of heaven does not mean His appearance there, but His appearance in the Word. The Lord is the Word, because He is Divine truth. The clouds of heaven in which He is to come are the literal sense of the Word, and the glory is its spiritual sense. The angels are heaven, from which He appears, and they are also the Lord as regards Divine truths.# This makes plain the meaning of these words, namely, that when the church comes to an end the Lord will open up the spiritual sense of the Word, and thus reveal Divine truth such as it is in itself. This will be a sign that the Last Judgment is at hand.

That there is a spiritual sense within each thing and expression in the Word, and what it is may be seen in the Arcana Coelestia. This book expounds in full detail the contents of Genesis and Exodus in accordance with their spiritual sense. Some selected passages dealing with the Word and its spiritual sense may be found in the small work About the White Horse described in Revelation.

# The Lord is the Word, because He is Divine truth in heaven (AC 2533, 2813, 2859, 2894, 3397, 3712). The Lord is the Word because the Word comes from Him and is about Him (AC 2859). It is about nothing but the Lord, especially in its inmost sense about the glorification of His Humanity, so that the Lord Himself is contained in it (AC 1873, 9357). The Lord's coming is His presence in the Word and the revelation of this (AC 3900, 4060). A cloud in the Word means the letter of the Word, or its literal meaning (AC 4060, 4391, 5922, 6343, 6752, 8106, 8781, 9430, 10551, 10574). Glory in the Word means Divine truth such as it is in heaven and in the spiritual sense (AC 4809, 5922, 8267, 8427, 9429, 10574). Angels in the Word mean Divine truths coming from the Lord, since angels are the means by which they are received, and they do not utter them of themselves but from the Lord (AC 1925, 2821, 3039, 4085, 4295, 4402, 6280, 8192, 8301). The trumpets and horns then blown by angels mean Divine truths in heaven and revealed from heaven (AC 8815, 8823, 8915).


TOPICS: Current Events; Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: lastjudgement; newchurch; swedenborg
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This is from a summer reading series from our Atlanta society that seems very relevant today. This is today's reading and I thought I would share it here.

I put this out there in the Spirit of spreading the Good News that Camping may well be right about the date but he was all wet about what was going to happen. I believe this to be God's Word.

Swedenborg states the Last Judgement took place in the Spiritual World in 1757. On earth as in Heaven. Why would a loving Lord destroy all that we created out of love -- the works of our own creation?

In the last paragraph, the references can be accessed at Heavenly Doctrines and putting 'AC nnnn' in the search box, selecting all words and Writings English from the Index. All translations are available. The Chadwick translation is the most current.

1 posted on 05/22/2011 10:02:46 AM PDT by DaveMSmith
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To: DaveMSmith
...sending those who have lived good lives to everlasting life or heaven...

That is a completely false statement. The way to salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ ALONE. There are no amount of good works you can do to "earn" your way to heaven.

The rest of this post is quite strange. To claim that Jesus' return as described--coming on the clouds of heaven with His angels--is somehow not the way it will be is basically saying the Bible is not true. And, to claim that angels are not what the Bible says they are, is again claiming the Bible is not true.

Beware of this false teaching!

2 posted on 05/22/2011 10:35:01 AM PDT by WXRGina
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To: WXRGina
It's not false. What Camping taught in his Bible Study is false.

It's word and deed. Will a horrible individual who always states his opinion in a cruel way go to heaven because he cam say 'I love Jesus' -- giving lip service with no repentance? That's downright stupid.

BTW, Luther added the ALONE in his German translation of the NT. Read the rest of that Chapter in the Epistles.

3 posted on 05/22/2011 11:09:00 AM PDT by DaveMSmith (Evil Comes from Falsity, So Share the Truth)
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To: DaveMSmith
"Camping may well be right about the date but he was all wet about what was going to happen."
sorry buddy, but this statement, right here, makes you an idiot, worthy of humiliation and vegetable throwing target...get lost
4 posted on 05/22/2011 11:18:39 AM PDT by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: DaveMSmith

Of course what Camping “prophesied” is false! It directly contradicts the teaching of God’s Word.

There is no such thing a “The New Church.” The “Emergent Church,” the same thing, is nothing more than the repackaging of ancient heresies from hell.

The Bible is God’s revelation to mankind. To try to take away from its meaning and truth is a dangerous place to put yourself in. Postmodernism and deconstruction of God’s Word will take you to a place you don’t want to be.


5 posted on 05/22/2011 11:28:06 AM PDT by WXRGina
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To: WXRGina
There is no such thing a “The New Church.”

See my profile page.

6 posted on 05/22/2011 11:40:37 AM PDT by DaveMSmith (Evil Comes from Falsity, So Share the Truth)
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To: joe fonebone; Religion Moderator
makes you an idiot

Please don't make it personal.

7 posted on 05/22/2011 11:42:41 AM PDT by DaveMSmith (Evil Comes from Falsity, So Share the Truth)
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To: DaveMSmith

There is nothing “new” about cults; they go back to the dawn of time. In most of them, to the grain of truth they teach, they add a multitude of lies (the “heavenly doctrines”).

There truly is nothing new under the sun, and deception is the order of the day in this world of Satan’s lies.


8 posted on 05/22/2011 12:00:16 PM PDT by WXRGina
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To: WXRGina
Cult?

Lies?

I see this every day on Trinity Broadcasting -- Benny Hinn and Paula White. The adulterous couple.

This is the real deal.

9 posted on 05/22/2011 2:36:34 PM PDT by DaveMSmith (Evil Comes from Falsity, So Share the Truth)
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To: DaveMSmith
I'm sorry, Dave, but I can't follow your thinking.

When you say things like,"Why would a loving Lord destroy all that we created out of love -- the works of our own creation?" I know that you not know/understand or believe the teachings of the Bible.

The Bible plainly says that the Lord is going to destroy the current heavens and earth and replace them. The Bible is also clear that the "works of OUR creation," or our "good works," are as "filthy rags" to God. Yes, he is a loving God, but He is also a God who will judge this world with fire.

10 posted on 05/22/2011 3:29:53 PM PDT by WXRGina
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To: WXRGina
The Bible plainly says that the Lord is going to destroy the current heavens and earth and replace them.

Scripture? Could the Apostles ever imagine our technology today? We have replicated what Swedenborg saw in Heaven. Earth is the seedbed of Heaven.

When spiritual eyes are opened, we can see past the literal sense of the Word. The Apostles saw the Lord after his death because their spiritual eyes were opened.

We know that our use here and in Heaven follows our loves -- good or bad. If it's good, it's from God, bad or evil: from self.

Jesus stated that His kingdom is not of this world. On Earth, He operates through angels and men -- we are all connected.

In the OT, what is described is a religion of the flesh. NT: Christianity is a religion of the Spirit. See Revelation -- John continually says he is in the Spirit. Swedenborg had the same thing -- and published over 30 volumes on everything he saw (with Heavenly guidance).

11 posted on 05/22/2011 4:59:35 PM PDT by DaveMSmith (Evil Comes from Falsity, So Share the Truth)
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To: DaveMSmith

The apostles did not have to “imagine” anything. God IS, and He is not bound by time. Don’t you know that God knew all the “technology” we would have today? Don’t you understand that we have all the “technology” BECAUSE of Him? God revealed the future to those men—they did not “imagine” it.

By your words, it is plain that you do not know the Bible.

There are a number of places throughout the Bible that tell of God’s coming judgment on the world.

“Heaven and earth WILL PASS AWAY, but my words will not pass away.” Matthew 24:35

See Revelation 21:1-2.
See 2 Peter 3:7
And, see the whole chapter of Matthew 24 (try verse 29 on for size).

I could cite more Scriptures, but, I do not expect you to listen to sound reasoning and the truth of God’s Word. You are clearly caught up in delusion.

I’m sorry, Dave.


12 posted on 05/22/2011 5:53:09 PM PDT by WXRGina
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To: joe fonebone
Making the thread "about" another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal.

13 posted on 05/22/2011 8:51:05 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: WXRGina
"There are no amount of good works you can do to "earn" your way to heaven."

The New Decalogue established by Christ says otherwise. These are the Two Greatest Commandments and the eight Beatitudes and thery require you get up off your butt and earn your Salvation.

14 posted on 05/22/2011 9:04:36 PM PDT by Natural Law (Maybe the rapture really did happen and NOBODY made the cut!)
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To: Religion Moderator

Comment was toward author of article...that is why I copied the sentence and put it in italics.....I have found that the people on the religious threads are real sensitive, and some lack basic reasoning ability....


15 posted on 05/23/2011 4:10:02 AM PDT by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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placemarker


16 posted on 05/23/2011 4:27:20 AM PDT by mitch5501 (My guitar wants to kill your momma!)
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To: Natural Law

Whatever it is you’re talking about is unscriptural. There is no “new” revelation from Jesus. You are adding to the Word of God (just like Catholics do), and you are dead wrong in your statements.

Our salvation is by grace alone, through faith in Jesus, and that faith comes from the Lord opening our minds to understand and receive the Word of God. Salvation is a gift of God.

Good works will follow living with the Spirit of Christ in you, but those works do not, never could, “earn” your salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”


17 posted on 05/23/2011 6:10:10 AM PDT by WXRGina
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To: joe fonebone

No one complained, I misread it.


18 posted on 05/23/2011 6:46:45 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: WXRGina

Well said.


19 posted on 05/23/2011 7:07:14 AM PDT by Fantasywriter
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To: WXRGina
"There is no “new” revelation from Jesus. You are adding to the Word of God (just like Catholics do)..."

It is you who are subtracting from the Word of God (just like Calvinists do). Jesus entire life and every word He spoke was a new revelation because Jesus is the Word incarnate.

I've incessantly heard the Paulian heresy preached by Calvinists that Jesus was a minor player sent only for the Jews and that the true revealer of the Word is Paul, and reject it. As a Christian I see Paul as a follower of Jesus tasked only with spreading and clarifying the message revealed within the Synoptic Gospels.

20 posted on 05/23/2011 9:02:40 AM PDT by Natural Law (Maybe the rapture really did happen and NOBODY made the cut!)
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To: Religion Moderator

You, sir, were just doing your job. No complaints about that...post 7, someone notified you and took my comment personally...that is what I was refering to..have a great day FRiend...


21 posted on 05/23/2011 9:22:02 AM PDT by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: Natural Law

What on earth are you talking about?!

Jesus is the Son of God, and in no way is He a “minor player.” That’s utter nonsense. His apostles were His chosen followers. The words they wrote were from Jesus, who is God.

Your reply makes no sense and has nothing to do with what I said.


22 posted on 05/23/2011 11:18:36 AM PDT by WXRGina
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To: WXRGina
"What on earth are you talking about?!"

I'm talking about your absurd contention that "There is no “new” revelation from Jesus.". I've heard a lot of Calvinist claptrap on this forum, but that takes the cake.

God progressively revealed Himself and The Word to mankind until such time as He choose to reveal Himself fully by sending his own Son, in whom he has established his covenant forever. Jesus entire life and ministry is one of revelation. Jesus is one hypostases of the Trinity, one in being with the father. Unless you would care to retract or revise your statement you will not be able to call yourself a Christian with any credibility.

23 posted on 05/23/2011 12:13:02 PM PDT by Natural Law (Maybe the rapture really did happen and NOBODY made the cut!)
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To: Natural Law

You apparenty do not understand what I said.

I said there is no “new” revelation, and by that I mean there is no extra-biblical revelation at this time. Things like the Book of Mormon and the extra-biblical teachings of the Catholic church are what I’m talking about. These kinds of things are man-made teachings that people claim to be “new” revelations from God, outside of the Bible, but are nothing more than lies from hell.

That’s what I’m talking about.

You know nothing about me and my Christianity. You can take a hike with your assertions on my Christian credibility.


24 posted on 05/23/2011 12:26:03 PM PDT by WXRGina
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To: WXRGina; daniel1212; bibletruth; Cronos; MarkBsnr; Judith Anne
"extra-biblical teachings of the Catholic church"

I see you and your fellow buffoons rail on about the lack of legitimacy of Catholic teaching predicated upon nothing other than your own individual infallible interpretations of Scripture. It brings to mind an argument articulated by the late Cardinal Gibbons.

First Catholics are told that infallibility is too great a prerogative to be conferred on any man, especially a Catholic one. But if God could make mere men the instrument by which he revealed the infallible Word, why is it impossible to make man its infallible guardian and interpreter?

Next we are told by Protestants that an infallible Bible is sufficient for you. That then begs the question of whether your interpretation of the Bible is equally infallible. If you are infallibly certain, then you assert for yourself, and by extension for every other reader of Scripture, a personal infallibility which you deny the Pope and the Magisterium. On what basis or what knowledge do you deny to them what you claim for yourself? And how do you rationalize the many differences in interpretation among and between the various Protestant sects and denominations?

On the otherhand, if you are not infallibly certain that you have properly interpreted and understand the whole Bible then what use to you is the objective infallibility of the Bible without an infallible interpreter?

25 posted on 05/23/2011 12:58:01 PM PDT by Natural Law (Maybe the rapture really did happen and NOBODY made the cut!)
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To: Natural Law; WXRGina; daniel1212; bibletruth; Cronos; MarkBsnr; Judith Anne

Standing applause.

You have hit the nail square on the Protestant thumb.

About the only thing that I can add is that the Church chose Scripture to begin with - the choice of the OT (Septuagint) and the NT rests with the Church - guided by the Holy Spirit, not any Tom, Dick or Luther regardless of how infallible they deem themselves.

And just think of the books that were thought of as Scripture - we know of about 80 Gospels or so - and which versions of each book were to be chosen? Each book had to be hand copied - and the copyists were not always the most faithful to the originals.

There are many out there that believe that Jesus carried a KJV (1611 of course) around with Him and taught in English. I have run into a few and have done my best to disabuse them of that notion (if English was good enough for Jesus, then it is good enough for immigrants - so I have been told).


26 posted on 05/23/2011 2:54:57 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Natural Law

Actually, rather than parroting a refuted RC polemic, if you had read and been able to comprehend what i wrote in this thread, then you might have understood how truth is established, which is not by Rome’s self-proclamation nor simply someone claiming they are infallible.

The modern-day Berean cannot claim either, but can only point them to the only material authority that is wholly inspired of God - which is not a perpetual promise that a pope will be - and seek to persuade them by manifestation of the truth.

Which is not the same as the implicit assent to your supreme magisterium you must require in order to have assurance of truth.


27 posted on 05/23/2011 3:17:34 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: Natural Law

Or rather, the last thread we exchanged upon.


28 posted on 05/23/2011 3:20:00 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: Natural Law

So, you want to resort to juvenile name-calling? Buffoon?

Forget it. I’m not going to go around and around with a bunch of Catholic adherents to their man-made traditions. That’s a useless endeavor, and I have better things to do.

Good evening.


29 posted on 05/23/2011 4:00:54 PM PDT by WXRGina
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To: MarkBsnr
"There are many out there that believe that Jesus carried a KJV (1611 of course) around with Him and taught in English."

I had a friend in high school (mid-1960's) whose very aging French great-grandfather came to the US for an extended stay. Even though the old guy was a devout Catholic he refused to attend Mass in the US because he said that God only choose Latin to speak to man.

30 posted on 05/23/2011 4:15:15 PM PDT by Natural Law (Maybe the rapture really did happen and NOBODY made the cut!)
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To: daniel1212
"Actually, rather than parroting a refuted RC polemic..."

I read what you wrote and, while I agree it may make perfect sense to you, it is in fact laughable.

You are going to have to do a lot better than that. Snippets cut form websites and links to your own website stuffed with cut and paste arguments don't carry much weight. Merely declaring an argument refuted doesn't make it so. I will dumb it down so that even you can get it and give you another chance to refute it. (note: Your compatriots have already punted):

1) Do you deny that God chose otherwise ordinary men to record the infallible and inerrant written Word?

2) Do you deny God's ability to choose other otherwise ordinary men to defend and inerrantly and infallibly interpret His word?

3) Do you declare that the Bible, as canonized by men acting under the direction of the Holy Spirit, is an infallible collection of infallible works?

4) Are you infallibly certain that your interpretation of the Bible is infallible?

5) If you are certain your interpretation of Scripture is infallible can you assert that this ability is reserved only to you?

6) If you are not certain that your interpretation is infallible what use to you is an infallible Bible without an infallible interpreter?

31 posted on 05/23/2011 4:44:49 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: WXRGina
"Good evening."

Stomping off is sure a lot easier than defending the position you have taken. Good night.

32 posted on 05/23/2011 4:46:49 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Natural Law

Hey, SCHMUCK! I’ve ALREADY “defended” my position with Scripture, which is not mine, but is the WORD OF GOD.

Your stupid beef is not with me, pal, but with God.


33 posted on 05/23/2011 4:56:19 PM PDT by WXRGina
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To: WXRGina
"Hey, SCHMUCK!"

Please tell me you don't put food in that dirty mouth or kiss your mom with it.

34 posted on 05/23/2011 5:33:29 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: joe fonebone

one thing that we (and me most of all!!) forget is that our RM does this for free. Carramba! I don’t envy him his duty, dealing with folks like me!


35 posted on 05/24/2011 2:14:21 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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To: WXRGina
WXRGina -- now we need to hold to the beliefs IN the Word of God

Like the Trinity, Baptism for the Remission of Sins and the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Lutherans, traditional Anglicans and Methodists believe in these. Do you? These are all Biblically sound beliefs that were practised right from the New Testament times, through the Early Christians through right until recently. Do you believe in these?

36 posted on 05/24/2011 2:16:52 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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To: daniel1212; Natural Law
There's no refutation and no polemic.

NL's statement make sense -- if you say that your interpretation is infallible, then why isn't the interpretation of the Church as a whole infallible?

And if your interpretation is infallible, then how come your interpretation on a fundamental belief like the Trinity differs from the Unitarians or the Oneness Pentecostals?

how come your interpretation on a fundamental belief like baptism for the remission of sins differs from the Lutherans?

37 posted on 05/24/2011 2:32:46 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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To: WXRGina

The extra-biblical teachings also include such lovely bits like double-predestination, TULIP, etc.


38 posted on 05/24/2011 3:07:00 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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To: Natural Law; Quix; RnMomof7; smvoice; metmom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; ...
...stuffed with cut and paste arguments..

I realize that you are being true to form, and your recourse to blithe dismissal of what refutes you is typical, but i assure you i do far more than simply cutting and pasting of arguments, though i do tend to substantiate or supplement what i write, directly or by links, while your own argument is hardly original:

1) Do you deny that God chose otherwise ordinary men to record the infallible and inerrant written Word?

No: "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." (2 Peter 1:21)

2) Do you deny God's ability to choose other otherwise ordinary men to defend and inerrantly and infallibly interpret His word?

No: "...our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased." (Psalms 115:3) Yet consistent with what is written, it does not assure infallible interpretations based upon Rome's criteria which renders whatever it speaks to be so, even though it may declare infallible truths, if Scriptural, and thus we agree on some core truths. But your question does not prove your particular premise, but must allow others to also defend and inerrantly and infallibly interpret His word. The issue is the basis for assurance.

3) Do you declare that the Bible, as canonized by men acting under the direction of the Holy Spirit, is an infallible collection of infallible works?

As canonized by Rome, like the Orthodox (at least in this regard), NO, but as 66 books being progressively manifest as God-breathed, yes, like as my affirmation of the existence of God does not rest upon Rome's say so but His manifestation of Himself.

Most of the Divine writings were established by the time of Christ as being such, and thus the references to the tripart Palestinian canon, (Lk. 24:44) and which was not the result of a formal action of men, but like true men of God, they were established as being from God due to their unique qualities and the attestation and witness God gave them. And which is the only way the rest of the writings of the 66 books of the Bible could be progressively established as such. The church can formally affirm things like Christ's Divinity, as well as the books of Scripture as being inspired by Him, but their enduring acceptance is due to them being what they are and effecting what faith in them does. The church which is of the living God, and consists of those begotten by His word of truth, (Ja. 1:18; 1Cor. 12:13) provides witness to the Divine inspiration of the 66 books of the Bible, partly by manifesting effects which correspond to its claims, not simply declaring it is.

As your argumentation for Rome being the infallible interpreter appeals to the omnipotence of God, so does the establishment of His writings by the aforementioned means, and is consistent with how He established men of God from Moses to John the Baptist as being just that.

However, Rome had no infallible canon until over 1400 years after the last book was written, with debate among scholars continuing right into Trent, and its canon was not exactly the same as Carthage, nor is it the same as that of the Orthodox. Thus your argument would not be valid prior to Trent, and that you had an infallible church without an infallible canon (argue as you might that it was) is telling.

4) Are you infallibly certain that your interpretation of the Bible is infallible?

More than i can be certain that Rome is the infallible interpreter, and as much as i can certain its interpretations are infallible, insomuch as Scripture clearly declares such. And anyone who even affirms that there is a God could be declaring infallible truth.

5) If you are certain your interpretation of Scripture is infallible can you assert that this ability is reserved only to you?

NO, or for Rome; though as said, I even allow that Rome can teach infallible Truth. The issue is the basis for such a claim, demonstrable Scriptural substantiation and manifest warrant, or that one is assured infallibility when it speaks according to its infallibly defined (content and scope-based) formula. Such may claim Scriptural warrant but its claim to infallibility does not rest upon it.

6) If you are not certain that your interpretation is infallible what use to you is an infallible Bible without an infallible interpreter?

As much use as it was the Jews for centuries before Rome. And as regards interpretations i would not hold as infallible, which would be substantial, an infallible Bible provides me a source by which God can lead me into truth, and which source materially includes the magisterium of the body of Christ, but which they also must submit to, rather than presuming authority over all.

Meanwhile, although Scripture teaches one can know that they presently have eternal life based upon Scriptural criteria, (1Jn. 5:13) you claim an infallible magisterium which has defined very little, nor you cannot be sure that you are giving the required assent of faith to all that Rome has infallible spoken, as you cannot be sure how many times she has. More in post 36.

Moreover, you are allowed varying degrees of dissent in non-fallible teachings, as well as on things not taught on, and the things Catholics can legitimately disagree on is very substantial, while the prolixity of prelates adds more of a burden. “Alexander III is said to have issued thirty-nine hundred and thirty-nine decrees and Innocent II over five thousand." (General Legislation in the New Code of Canon Law, p. 42), while the papal "Bulls" just from 540 to 1857 fills forty-one volumes.

You are going to have to do a lot better than that.

Indeed i have and did so again, by God's grace, though a Catholic who showed he could reasonably interact would have been preferable. But thanks (honestly) for the questions.

39 posted on 05/24/2011 7:27:07 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: Cronos

It has to do with comprehension, or a tendency to fail to read carefully, and supposes that nothing was said regarding as to why some things Rome says can be considered as infallible truth, while we both allow some disagreement in other things, and on what tends to characterizes those who deny the core truths we both agree on. But at least you showed you read some.


40 posted on 05/24/2011 11:07:04 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: daniel1212; Natural Law; kosta50
Rot, as I said clearly, most don't read your posts thinking they are flashy and long and may have content, but if anyone DOES read it, they will see that your posts have ZERO content and are all flashy, long words but no facts, or contain half-truths repeated in language meant to be obscure

your posts have been refuted before and shown to be basically conflations or utterly incorrect -- all flash and no content.

41 posted on 05/24/2011 11:11:30 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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To: daniel1212; Cronos; kosta50; Notwithstanding; Natural Law; MarkBsnr; bronx2; Quix; RnMomof7; ...
"NL: 1) Do you deny that God chose otherwise ordinary men to record the infallible and inerrant written Word?"

d12: No: "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." (2 Peter 1:21)"

It's pretty telling that you omitted the preceding verse, 2 Peter 1:20, which provides the context for your quote. It states: "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation". The verse you then cited, 2 Peter 1:21, simply establishes that it is not the men talking, but the Holy Spirit, providing the interpretations.

Since the Holy Spirit is inerrant. Since you are not willing to state that your interpretations are inerrant and infallible, only that is less so in comparison to "Rome" (as determined by little old fallible you) then you are admitting that in every dispute of interpretation and doctrine between and among Protestants is proof that at least one of them is not being guided by the Holy Spirit. Since there are literally thousands of differing Protestant Interpretations and doctrines, which is the "Golden Denomination" to which all others should heed.

The rest of your prattle was simply an overly wordy regurgitation of "yes, but not Rome". I get that the basis of a fringe Protestant's doctrine is established by its contrast with Catholic doctrine, and the greater the differences the better, but if you are not even going to be honest about Scripture and won't address legitimate questions with cogent answers I really can't see any reason to continue discussing this with you.

42 posted on 05/24/2011 4:26:31 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Natural Law; daniel1212; Quix; RnMomof7; boatbums; helloandgoodbye; CynicalBear; Dr. Eckleburg; ...
Since you pinged him, Natural Law, would you like to join me in saluting the recently departed bronx2 with one final, well-deserved cheer?

Bronx Cheer

43 posted on 05/24/2011 5:11:55 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed: he's hated on seven continents)
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To: Alex Murphy

Count me in on that as well.


44 posted on 05/24/2011 6:10:31 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Alex Murphy

To what do we owe this stroke of good fortune?


45 posted on 05/24/2011 6:13:22 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: Alex Murphy

Well, well, well! How interesting! What did he get the zot for? I was just in a conversation with him (if you can call it that) yesterday. He had a tendency to obfuscate and throw out straw dogs then get a little nasty.


47 posted on 05/24/2011 6:31:12 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

A *little* nasty?

You are generous beyond measure.


48 posted on 05/24/2011 6:32:34 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Hmmmmmmmmm

Departed?

Really?


49 posted on 05/24/2011 6:39:35 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: metmom

INDEED. My thought, too.


50 posted on 05/24/2011 6:47:34 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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