Skip to comments.Michele Bachmann Should Not 'Get a Pass' on Past Membership in Anti-Catholic Church
Posted on 07/15/2011 5:01:33 AM PDT by tcg
....some of my colleagues in the world of Catholic media, journalism and the Press have attributed the positions of this Church and Bachmanns past membership to just "being a Protestant." As someone who has worked ecumenically for decades I reject that dismissal. The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod does not represent many Protestants. It is an Anti-Catholic body.
....I have worked with, prayed with and collaborated with MANY Protestant Christians, for over three decades, who would NEVER call the successor of Peter the Antichrist. The colleagues to which I refer go further, they seemingly accept the notion that if Protestant Christians felt otherwise they would no longer be Protestant. That is not only overly simplistic, it fails to recognize the substantial issues which divide the broken Body of Christ.
....Some of the other articles I have read ...attempt to dismiss it by pointing to the authors purported political leanings. So, let me speak to that for a moment. I have political leanings. I like Michele Bachmann's positions on the issues which matter most to this Catholic voter. She is pro-Life and defends marriage and the family and society founded upon it.
I appreciate her pledge to reign in the ever expanding size of the Federal government, which I fear threatens the principle of subsidiarity. Finally, I had been impressed with her intelligence, her oratorical skills, her background and her presence. All of this made her my second favorite possible candidate, until now. My first choice is obvious to anyone who reads my ongoing political commentary.
However, her political and policy positions were not the point of Joshua Green's article and focusing upon them may be a form of deflection. Green raised the issue of Michele Bachmann's long standing identification with a Church body which is clearly Anti-Catholic....
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...
Will some of those same people ask this candidate, whom they seem to agree with on issues, about her affiliation with a Church which espoused Anti-Catholicism? For example, how will Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly, just to name two high profile media personalities, handle this disturbing fact out of Michele Bachmann's very recent past? I hope the answer is "straight on". ...
As someone who was beat up by Catholic kids for walking past their church and school to get to my Lutheran Church, back in the 50s, and then told that their priest said it was justified, I find your comments pathetic.
“One question is of special concern to me. Will she get a pass?”
Will Romney? And along those lines, why does Pelosi get a pass from Catholics on abortion? Did she inherit Ted Kennedy’s?
A sure way to get my eyes to glaze over is to put the word “anti-Catholic” in a story.
Luther was not shy about his views on the matter. It’s not at all surprising that a Lutheran body today would continue this tradition. But what does that matter? The problem with Jeremiah Wright’s church was its *political* views more than its theological ones. Anti-Americanism is a *political* position that you better believe affects the Chief Executive’s policy.
What would a President Bachmann do with this alleged “anti-Catholicism”, eh? Break ties with the Vatican? Sic the Justice Department on the dioceses?
Sorry, I just don’t get the point of Fournier’s argument here.
The left is desperately seeking a means of driving a wedge between Catholics and Protestants. I grew up Methodist in a family mixed with Baptists and Catholics.
I guess those differences never really meant anything to me.
We have all lived in harmony in spite of these differences and we need to consider the motive of this author and not react in a way that causes division. We all disagree on these points but are still allies.
Obama got a pass for his anti-american church.
Think I'll steer clear of this war.
Perhaps you should spend your time worrying about the country and who is running it.
If Obama stays in, you will be kneeling on your prayer rug facing Mecca, or die.
stopped listening to Hannity when he shilled for Rudy Guilliani back in 08...
O’Reilly is just a moron and I do not know what his real politics are.
as far as Bachmann? who cares what religious group she use to belong to...
Most Southern Baptists and other bible belt churches have defamed Catholics over the 6+ decades I have been alive...I would vote for a member of one of these if they held American values.
on the other hand I would really have to search my soul to vote for a Mormon (you listening, ‘Mittens’?)
As the Lutheran (LCMS) of closest affiliation I know to Ms. Bachmann’s synod (WELS) can you shed light on whether this brouhaha about calling Roman Popes “the Antichrist” has any basis in contemporary devout Lutheran congregations? AFAIK, this was a position popular among many evangelical congregations of past centuries (not just Lutherans), but with the contemporary trend of the Roman church backing out of the role of playing the machine in secular governments and becoming less strident towards Christian congregations of other denominations, few evangelicals take this literal view seriously.
Pelosi’s political views are disgusting, and she should be publicly excoriated for them if not excommunicated.
But to return to the original topic, it’s like some of my fellow Catholics all of a sudden woke up and found out that the Reformation happened.....”oh no....people are (gasp) anti-Catholic! They believe the Pope is the Antichrist!!!”
Uh, where the blazes have some of you been for the last 500 years? Do you not also realize that we Catholics are, by definition, anti-Protestant? Do you not know how many Catholic prelates have felt free to speculate on Luther, Calvin, Cranmer et al. in the bowels of hell?
If people are going to be so thin-skinned, let the grownups do the theological disputation.
People are getting their heads cut off for being Catholics in the Middle East. And Americans get all bent out of shape about a politician attending a church where Lutherans believe what Luther believed. Sheesh.
“The left is desperately seeking a means of driving a wedge between Catholics and Protestants.”
The whole point of the navel gazing article.
Where did you get that from?
Name one person who has apologized to the Catholic Church.
Ahhh... must be getting closer to election season. The Republicans are beginning to eat their own.
Obama won the election in spite of his affiliation with
Simply using that fact as a blunt instrument will suffice. Why? Most
Of the American public won’t discern between what Wright was preaching and what Bachmann’s pastor is preaching.
The fact that FReepers are smarter than the average citizen sometimes
causes us to think too much sometimes.
My take? Focus on what unities Christians: J E S U S.
It’s ok to debate this, but don’t let the enemy divide us over it.
Unfortunately this is not the left...this is a (conservative?) Catholic deacon I think. Proving once again we are our own worst enemies.
Tell me Deacon Fournier or anyone else, what the heck will Michele Bachmann do as President that will have ANYTHING to do with what her position is on the nature of the Antichrist?
I’m not playing.
Jesus said, "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." The Catholic Church is not interested in freedom or truth. It is interested in control.
And here's a picture of John Paul II kissing the Qu'ran.
“the Catholic church’s official teaching is that anyone not a Catholic will also be going to hell”
“Where did you get that from?”
Probably from the same place that says if you are not “born again” you are going to hell.
Catholic league just defended her today
Heh heh...you are wiser than I. :)
Another point is that while Luther begged to differ with the Roman church about popes, he considered many Roman Catholics to be fine Christians. AFAIK most modern Lutherans, even Ms. Bachmann, would be disgusted at persecutions of Roman Catholics in Islam-dominated places that hate anybody who professes to be Christian regardless of the details. She’d be among the first to point up the hypocrisy of Islam wanting “tolerance” for their religion while picking up the sword against any different faith.
I’m getting real sick of people trashing her.
I’m Catholic. While the “Catholicism is Heresy” crowd around here piss me off at times, I would favor one of them for President over a “Liberation Theology” Catholic.
IF she exhibits similar anti-Christian behavior/policies—that Barry Soetoro has made manifest— she ought not get a pass.But if the Catholic are to insist she not be given a pass for a membership in her past—then the Catholic ought not be given a pass for their past behavior.I never was Calvinistic enough to confuse the Catholic church with the Beast of Daniels prophecy. I have read Samuel West — On the Right to Rebel and the body of that sermon I can agree with-but his comments about the Roman Church I cannot accept. I was NEVER
a Catholic.But when they are unjustly attacked—when their position can be reconciled to Scripture I will defend them
When I cannot so do — I will Not defend them Until I see
Ms.Bachmann say something to validate this charge-I can only consider it the persecution complex Catholics have borrowed from the Jews they so reviled.
the Catholic church’s official teaching is that anyone not a Catholic will also be going to hell
Where did you get that from?
Uhh..probably from the last 1500 years of catholic church history??? Just a guess, of course.
So anyone who, in the past, did something disagreeable in their life disqualifies them for office? Hussein had CURRENT membership in a hate mongering church, and no questions were really asked.
If I understand the article correctly she left that church only about a year ago. Apparently she didn’t publicly condemn the teaching or it would have been in the article. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Who gives a tinker’s da**?
As long as she doesn’t believe the government should implement her religious beliefs, she can believe whatever she likes and according to her convictions.
It’s called freedom. I like it. I think I’ll keep it.
Green's only desire was to create that division. I am pointing out that Catholics should not feel as victims in this story as Protestants can be just as offended by the official teachings of the Catholic church. There are differences, if there weren't we would all belong to the exact same church.
" Extraordinary Magisterium ---EX CATHEDRA There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved. (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.) With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin
Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by absolute necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff. (Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, Nov. 18, 1302) The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church. (Council of Florence--Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)" __________________
I can tell you, Pelosi and all those dissident, unfaithful Catholics most certainly did NOT get a pass from this writer. Check him out. He has consistently exposed, opposed and confronted them with his pen...while praying for their conversion and return to the truth.Sorry you had a bad childhood. that’s not the issue.
I was raised in the Catholic Church. Suffice to say that Bachmann treated the children under her control better than the Catholic Church treated myself and others. While I don’t go out of my way to bash the church I have no problem if others do.
I agree with Claud.
Ya know, if “Rev. Wright” of “God Damn America” fame (not the Westburros, now, but the one whose sermons Barack Obama allegedly slept through for 20 years) had given up that kind of preaching before Barack Obama ever met him and he was now your common plain chocolate black preacher, his past preaching wouldn’t have even been a footnote in history.
see: Malia Belen post and quotes
It just doesn’t matter. The very fraudulant idea that there is a line of succession of popes going back to Peter is repugnant to reality and simply phony according to the catholic encyclopedia and church records.
We (Roman Catholics..NOT CINO’s) and our Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ whether they are Baptists, Methodist, Lutherans, or Presbyterians, may have many differences in scripture.
However, we have way too much in common with our joint views on Pro-Life, Pro Family(homo agenda),anti-liberation Theology creeping into our leadership, government interference disguised as Economic Justice and other issues that makes us natural allies.
IMHO, I’ll lock arms in protest over ending ‘reproductive rights’ or pray with a good Southern Baptist ANY-DAY over a self righteous CINO.
This is just an attempt to divide and conquer. I believe Bachmann has already been questioned about this, anyway, and has said that she regards Catholics as Christians, so obviously she doesn’t agree with her (I believe former) church on this.
And if she has been active in pro-life and pro-adoption matters, she’s probably had a lot of contact with Catholics.
Of course, any Catholic who has seen the anti-Catholic ravings by various Protestants on FR is pretty immune to them; we’re tough!
But aside from that, her attitude couldn’t be worse than that of our pro-Muslim, Christian-hating, pro-abortion, pro-euthanasia, pro-Marxism president.
While everyone with thin skin is re-fighting the Reformation, Obama waltz’s to a second term. Don’t fall for this divide and conquer piece.
As of those people who was and still is disgusted by Obama’s membership in a hate America church, I don’t understand your comparison — assuming your facts are correct.
Was MB affiliated with this church for 20 years?
Is MB still affiliated with this church?
Has MB admitted to being so stupid that she was affiliated with the church for 20 years but never heard what the preacher said?
If the answer to these questions is “yes”, get back to me.
Yeah, but what do they know?
I can just imagine it -
some leftist in your life will bring this up about MB.
You’ll counter with 0bama’s membership in Wright’s church.
They’ll fail to see the connection.
And so continues the ongoing disagreement whether entrance into the church comprising the saved is through the door of Christ, or whether entrance into Christ is through the ministrations of a body that on earth features sinners of various degrees. All I can say is that the temptation of a church’s declarations to become self serving is immense.
Seems liked I've touched a nerve. What you going to do, declare a Jihad on me?
Liberation Theology is not religion, but Communism in a thin religious wrapper.
I saw them up close and personal in NM back in the late 70’s and early 80’s. Was a real education for an old West Texas farm boy, as was living in a mine union town.
Christianity is about freeing people from guilt, fear and corruption of the world. Communism is about lies, deception and subjection. Much like Islam.