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The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon
LDS.org ^ | August 1988 | Carlos E. Asay

Posted on 07/25/2011 10:34:37 AM PDT by greyfoxx39

The Companionship of the Holy Ghost

By Elder Carlos E. Asay

Of the First Quorum of the Seventy

For many unmarried Latter-day Saints, particularly some of the single sisters, courtship and eternal companionship are unrealized dreams. You long for them, you know eternal companionship is a crucial part of the gospel, and yet you feel frustrated because no worthy partner is available.

It is tempting to wish that I could match you with perfect companions in an instant and send you off for the eternities in joyful marriages. But such a solution would be satanic. Satan, you will remember, wanted to dictate the courses of our lives, doing away with our testing and choosing, thus frustrating our Father’s plan and stopping our progress.

Your courtship with a mortal companion is not something you can dictate or plan by yourself. But there is a companionship of great and eternal significance over which you do have full and complete control. It is a companionship that can be obtained and enjoyed by all, regardless of age or sex. It is a companionship that heals loneliness, motivates to excellence, and gives meaning to life. It is the companionship of one of the members of the Godhead—the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Revelator, the Sanctifier, the Spirit of the Lord. It is a companionship which will assure you that you’re not alone, and will never be alone.

Mortal companionships—one person with another—are important and essential, and if they are cemented by love and mutual respect, they can become heavenly in nature and bring unspeakable joy. Any such companionship, however, becomes vacant and somewhat meaningless without the influence of the Holy Ghost. No mortal companionship ever overshadowed or surpassed in importance the binding of a person to the Spirit of the Lord.

“Prayed for That Which They Most Desired”

It is significant that while Christ taught and prayed with the Nephites, “they did pray for that which they most desired; and they desired that the Holy Ghost should be given unto them.” (3 Ne. 19:9.) As Church members, we have completed the necessary steps of faith, repentance, and baptism and have had authorized hands placed on our heads to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. But just as love between friends or companions must be cultivated and nourished like a tender plant, so likewise must a companionship with the Holy Spirit be cultivated.

When I was a young man I fell in love with a beautiful girl. More than anything in the world, I wanted to receive her love and eternal companionship. I therefore behaved my best, spoke my best, and gave my best as I courted her and sought to gain her favor. Even after she was promised to me, I recognized the need to continue the courting. My desire was, and still is, to please her and to avoid any offense. She is my inspiration, my motivation to live on a high and noble level.

The companionship of the Holy Ghost is cultivated in much the same manner. To obtain his influence and companionship, we must be our best; we must be worthy of his presence. I see five things we must do to attract and retain the Holy Spirit.

1. We must keep our bodies clean.

We must not pollute our mortal tabernacles in any way. We must live the Word of Wisdom; we must not misuse our powers of procreation; we must do whatever is possible to avoid disease or other enemies of our physical bodies. “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.” (1 Cor. 3:16–17.)

2. We must keep our minds clean.

We must guard against all suggestive and carnal notions and other satanic influences. From the Doctrine and Covenants, we receive this advice and promise: “Let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven. The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion.” (D&C 121:45–46.)

Few things are more repulsive than evil minds and the filth they produce. Can one hope to enjoy the companionship of the Holy Spirit when one is double-minded—that, when his mind shares time with the evil one? I think not.

3. We must exercise faith and reserve a place in our hearts for the Holy Spirit.

Manifestations of the Spirit of God, we are told, are forfeited in the absence of faith. Moroni spoke openly of the gifts of the Spirit, including healing and tongues, then cautioned: “All these gifts of which I have spoken, which are spiritual, never will be done away, even as long as the world shall stand, only according to the unbelief of the children of men.” (Moro. 10:19.)

It is most important that we understand “that the Holy Ghost may have place in [our] hearts” only when we exercise faith in Christ. (Moro. 7:32.) How can we be acceptable to the Holy Ghost without recognizing and acknowledging those whom he represents—those of whom he testifies and bears witness? Loving and seeking the Christlike life is true worship—the kind of worship that opens our lives to the power of the Holy Ghost.

4. We must avoid all iniquity, all manner of wickedness.

As stated previously, gifts of the Lord cease when faith is missing. The same applies, and the problem is compounded, when iniquity is present.

Alma said, “No unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven.” (Alma 11:37.) Similarly, no unclean person can achieve a lasting relationship with the Spirit of God.

5. We must pray, feast upon the words of Christ, and walk uprightly before God.

The Spirit of the Lord teaches and entices a man to pray. (See 2 Ne. 32:8–9.) The words of Christ help us to understand who the Holy Spirit is and how he may be invited into our presence. (See 2 Ne. 32:1–3.) The Spirit of God persuades men to do good and to believe in Christ. (See Ether 4:11–12; Moro. 7:16–17.) So prayer, scripture study, and righteous living are musts.

The skeptic or gospel novice might inquire: “Why seek the Holy Ghost? Why strive for his companionship? What is in it for me?” Answers to these questions are abundant if we are receptive to the testimonies of those who know and have associated with the Spirit of the Lord. Some of these testimonies help to answer questions about the value of association with the Holy Ghost.

Would you like to possess perfect foresight, perfected powers to anticipate what to do under certain circumstances? If so, you must do as Nephi directed: “Enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, [for] it will show unto you all things what ye should do.” (2 Ne. 32:5.)

“Would You Like the Power of Discernment?”

Would you like to have powers of discernment—the power to identify truth? If so, you must read the word of God, acknowledge God’s Goodness, ponder, and ask of God. Through doing this, Moroni testifies, “By the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.” (Moro. 10:5.)

While I was a mission president in Texas, I was informed that a particular missionary had lost his testimony and wanted to go home. Some checking disclosed that doubts of the divinity of his call had been planted in the young man’s mind by an investigator. In an interview with the so-called investigator, I experienced special powers of discernment that enabled me to know that the man was a minister of another faith, posing as a college student and pretending to be an honest investigator of Mormonism. Confronted with the knowledge that had been revealed to me, he became confused and admitted his fraud. With the deceiver out of the way and the truth known, the missionary stayed and completed an honorable mission.

On one occasion, a missionary in the final week of his mission reminded me that I had given him clearance two years previously to serve a mission. The clearance had been extended with some reservations on my part because he had indulged in a number of transgressions before his mission. He said: “Elder Asay, you allowed me to go into the field after due repentance and after I promised that I would be strictly obedient and would work diligently. I can assure you that I have worked hard and have obeyed every rule.” Then he said something very significant. “I feel that my sins have been forgiven. I feel perfectly clean.” He had been cleansed through selfless service and by developing a close association with the Holy Spirit. He had been through the refiner’s fire, and impurities had been burned away.

“Would You Like to Hear Revelations from God?”

Would you like to have the power to hear, feel, and know the revelations of God? Through the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Lord promised, “I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost. … This is the spirit of revelation.” (D&C 8:2–3.)

I have heard President Marion G. Romney, at the conclusion of his testimony in a temple meeting, say something like this: “You may not have needed to hear what I have said today and you probably didn’t learn anything new. However, I learned something while speaking and I needed to hear these words.” This is a beautiful and open acknowledgment of the influence of the Holy Spirit.

Would you like to enjoy spiritual gifts—powers to heal, be healed, speak in tongues, for example? If so, give heed to the prophet Moroni’s words: “And all these gifts come by the Spirit of Christ; and they come unto every man severally, according as he will.” (Moro. 10:17.)

Would you like convincing powers of speech—the power to speak like an angel? If so, note Nephi’s question, “Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels?” (2 Ne. 32:2.)

Thirty years ago, while I served as a missionary in the Near East, my companion and I were assigned to visit a branch that had been torn apart by division and apostasy. We approached our assignment humbly and prayerfully. A crucial meeting was held involving the disaffected parties. My companion was selected to preach the sermon that we hoped would bring everyone together again. After we had fasted and prayed earnestly, he stood with confidence and worked the miracle. He spoke with the tongue of an angel. That young, inexperienced elder’s words healed wounds festering in the hearts of men much older than he, prompted confessions, and literally saved a branch of the Church.

“Would You Like the Power to Resist Temptation?”

Would you like the power to ward off and resist temptation? If so, do as Alma and Paul suggested: “Pray continually, … and thus be led by the Holy Spirit.” (Alma 13:28.)

Would you like to obtain perfect peace and assurance in all that you do? If so, make the Holy Ghost your companion and you, too, may receive the type of assurance given Nephi and Lehi: “Peace, peace be unto you, because of your faith in my Well Beloved, who was from the foundation of the world.” (Hel. 5:47.)

Finally, would you like the power to perform beyond your natural abilities? Would you like the help of unseen powers in all that you do? I refer to the power to speak with convincing authority—even the power to receive promptings that enable you to say things that you had not planned. I speak of the power to receive impressions, which, if heeded, bring blessings to you and others.

Mortal men and women are endowed with marvelous abilities and potential. But however great these mortal powers may be, they are only a shadow of those powers that can be claimed through a linkage with the Holy Spirit.

I hope you do not say to yourself that these words about a companionship with the Spirit are for someone else, not you. God is no respecter of persons. His blessings and gifts are not reserved for a precious few. It matters not whether you are an Apostle or a deacon, a Relief Society officer or a Primary teacher. All of us have the promise of gifts of the Spirit if we place ourselves in a position to claim them.

If your introduction to this divine companion seems incomplete, review your baptism and confirmation and determine whether you have really received him as you were commanded to do. Pay careful attention to your physical cleanliness, the cleanliness of your thoughts, the extent of your faith in Christ, your inclination to avoid all manner of sin, and your prayer and study habits.

It is wise from time to time to do some reflective thinking and determine whether you really know the Holy Ghost. Pause long enough to measure your acquaintance with spiritual gifts and powers. See whether foresight, discernment, sanctification, revelation, spiritual gifts, angelic speech, peace of assurance, and attendant blessings are evident in your life. Determine whether spiritual experiences are sprinkled generously throughout your daily living. And, if you find yourself wanting, have the courage to change and place your life in order.

If you will do these things, you need never be alone, for you will have the most important companion of all—the Holy Ghost.



TOPICS: General Discusssion; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: antichristian; antimormonfatwa; antimormonhatred; antimormonjihad; antimormonrant; beck; bitterformermormon; glennbeck; inman; mormoaner; mormon; religiousbigotry; romney; zealot
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To: SZonian
I'm sorry I have to disagree with that statement. JS was in no way a servant of Jesus. Not even close. History has proven that out.

But he was one hell of a prophet!!




 
"Joseph; I advise you not to go to that jail."
 
"Darn gnats!!"
 
 
"Joseph; I'm telling you to not to go to that jail."
 
"Flies are BAD today!!"
 
 
"Joseph; It ain't gonna be pretty if you ignore me and go to that jail!"
 
"Crummy mosquitos are EVERYWHERE!!!"
 
 
"Joseph!  Do NOT go to that jail!"
 
"And those bedbugs really savaged me last night, too!"
 
 
"JOSEPH!!  Wake up boy!   Do Not Go To That JAIL!!!"
 
"All right Sheriff - here I am, so give me a nice room while my Lawyer, my Advocate, my Comforter presents the LAW to the Judge and I am VINDICATED!!!"
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


101 posted on 07/26/2011 4:45:49 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: SZonian
I'm sorry I have to disagree with that statement. JS was in no way a servant of Jesus. Not even close. History has proven that out.


JESUS: Hey Smith!       Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But.... 

102 posted on 07/26/2011 4:46:23 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: John McDonnell
Those who continually attack Mormons as enemies of Christ are wasting the days of their probation. All Christians must eventually stand before the judgment seat of Christ regarding their service to Him or lack thereof.

I guess the FOLLOWING must be the parts of the BIBLE that MORMONs consider to be translated poorly:

 
Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?
 
Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
 
 
 
 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.



103 posted on 07/26/2011 4:49:07 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: John McDonnell
But I don't waste the days of my probation attacking Mormons, especially since I am convinced that the Book of Mormon itself is true.

Well Satan; it's not every day I get to reply directly to you; as it is usually one of your expendable minions that is sent into battle.

You DO know your fate; don't you?

You time is SHORT: is THAT why you are trying SO hard to steer SO many into YOUR hell?

The place CREATED for the DEVIL and his ANGELS??

104 posted on 07/26/2011 4:52:13 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: lawsone
Anything given to man from God can be taken away through transgression.

I'd say THROWN would be a bit more accurate.

105 posted on 07/26/2011 4:53:41 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: John McDonnell
Or will your silence on this point prove mine, that those who attack the faith of other Christians carefully hide their own (except in reciting safe generalities)?

Make up your mind; because anyone who IS a CHRISTIAN knows that MORMONs ain't!

106 posted on 07/26/2011 4:55:20 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Godzilla
Ah yes, forgetting that smith attacked Christianity first to make room for his cult.

Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (, p.270).
 
Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (, p. 119).
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" ( 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" ( 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" ( 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" ( 10:230).
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (, p. 255).
 
Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (, 18:172).
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (, 10:127).
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (, p.182).
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (, vol. 3, p.282).
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (, p.316).
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (, vol. 2, p.196).
 

107 posted on 07/26/2011 4:56:21 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Normandy
I know there are many non-Mormon Book of Mormon believers, but I’ve never come across any on FR until now.

That's because those arrogant jerks in SLC think that THEY own the COPYRIGHT to the word MORMON!



108 posted on 07/26/2011 4:59:25 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Normandy

http://newsroom.lds.org/article/church-seeks-to-address-public-confusion-over-texas-polygamy-group


109 posted on 07/26/2011 5:21:14 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
First, you have to be kidding.

The rest of us would say LYING.

110 posted on 07/26/2011 5:22:37 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: John McDonnell
You hide your denominations because you don't want to be linked to anything that might be criticized.

Ha ha HA!

You don't get kit; do you?

We HIDE nothing.

What YOU want to do is to get us OFF subject, chasing down a rabbit hole, defending something or other that you think you've have found debatable.

Hear me now: WE DO NOT PLAY DEFENSE!

Now; get thee behind me.

111 posted on 07/26/2011 5:26:03 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie; John McDonnell
Or will your silence on this point prove mine, that those who attack the faith of other Christians carefully hide their own (except in reciting safe generalities)?

Make up your mind; because anyone who IS a CHRISTIAN knows that MORMONs ain't!

Lord knows that you and I have had our differences, Elsie, but this charge?

Evidently you don't know what goes on around here when it comes to non Christians claiming to be Christians, John.


112 posted on 07/26/2011 5:26:29 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Normandy
The reason I am a Christian is that I believe in Jesus Christ about whom we read in the Bible.

Then WHY do you attend MORMON services?

You NEVER seem to talk about ANYTHING vaguely MORMON.

113 posted on 07/26/2011 5:29:03 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

I was trying to be polite. Forgive me, dear Els. ;)


114 posted on 07/26/2011 5:30:31 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: lawsone
Elsie, you can laugh but my wife and I are 85 and use no prescription medication.

Why would I laugh?

A LOT of folks self diagnose and dose themselve with herbal stuff.

115 posted on 07/26/2011 5:30:46 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: lawsone
We go farther than The Word Of Wisdom suggests...

So do most MORMONs; but they also do LESS than it says their GOD wants them to do.

116 posted on 07/26/2011 5:32:14 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: lawsone
It is interesting to me how you “Perfect Christians” have very little “Good News” about The Gospel.

HMMmm...

How shall I defend against THIS charge?

Too much straw for me!

117 posted on 07/26/2011 5:33:38 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: John McDonnell
The idea that the "other sheep" refers to Gentiles is false...

Are you SURE?

118 posted on 07/26/2011 5:35:29 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
You are forgiven. Now make us up some green Jello®!
119 posted on 07/26/2011 5:38:11 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie; John McDonnell
But I don't waste the days of my probation attacking Mormons, especially since I am convinced that the Book of Mormon itself is true.

You're on probation? Well, it's so sad since all you're going to get out of it is a lousy T-shirt from the missionaries.

I know the Masonic rites better than any Christian ought to. At least you guys did not co-opt the Master's Word or even the substitute Master's Word, although you did much of the rest of the Blue Lodge rituals including the insane passes and grips.

Why would a religion of God use Freemasonry as a framework for their rituals?

120 posted on 07/26/2011 5:45:05 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Elsie; lawsone

It is interesting to me how you “Perfect Christians” have very little “Good News” about The Gospel.

- - -

Two points. First you do realize, don’t you that “be ye therefore perfect”, the word translated in the KJV as perfect doesn’t mean moral perfection (which is impossible) but is an architectural term meaning ‘complete or finished’.

Christians are perfect in that, through our faith we have been justified, completed through the grace of Christ.

Second the ‘good news’ is simple and beyond denominational ties or individual churches.

Ephesians 2:8-9

New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

The Good news is you can be set free from legalism and a dependence upon the LDS church through faith in the Christ of the Bible. The good news is you don’t have to spend eternity in Hell, because Christ already paid for your sins on the Cross (not in the Garden) if you just accept Him and renounce the blasphemies of Mormonism.

FWIW, I have attended non-denominational Christian churches since I left the LDS. My membership is in the Body of Christ, the Church Universal, not in any local congregation. In fact, Mormonism so turned me off of church membership that I will not attend a church that requires membership at all.


121 posted on 07/26/2011 5:46:03 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut

“No good in Mormonism”?

You might disagree with some doctrines, but to say that there is nothing good is absurd.

I have seen love, courage, kindness, mercy, compassion, faith, hope, charity, in the lives of Latter-day saints that have flowed from their religious convictions.And I have seen those same qualities in the lives of people from other faiths, too.

I may not agree with a faith’s doctrine, but it would be foolish of me to think there was nothing good in any faith but my own.


122 posted on 07/26/2011 6:49:31 PM PDT by Normandy
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To: MarkBsnr
Why would a religion of God use Freemasonry as a framework for their rituals?

Because it PROVES that Masonry is TRUE; too!


123 posted on 07/26/2011 7:37:32 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Normandy
I may not agree with a faith’s doctrine, but it would be foolish of me to think there was nothing good in any faith but my own.

Come on, Norm; tell us something unique to MORMONism that is NOT found in the BIBLE that is true.

124 posted on 07/26/2011 7:39:50 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Normandy

No, nothing good in Mormonism.

But go ahead and list some specific things you think are ‘good’ about Mormonism. Or if you wish, I can list somethings I saw as ‘good’ when I was LDS.

Bottom line, it all gets down to motivation.


125 posted on 07/26/2011 7:41:41 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: Normandy

I may not agree with a faith’s doctrine, but it would be foolish of me to think there was nothing good in any faith but my own.

- - - - -
So you disagree with what your apostles and prophets have said about Christianity?


126 posted on 07/26/2011 7:48:57 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: Normandy

God revealed Himself to Budda...

There is a record of that...

Why arent you a Buddist ???


127 posted on 07/26/2011 7:59:56 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: lawsone

My father was 85 when he died...

Mom had died the year before and he had gone to live with my sister...He often spoke of how much he missed his wife of 55 years..

he was planning to move into an indepentant living apartment in a building for seniors the next month...

His buddy he had been friends with for 40-50 years lived there and the 2 of them were looking forward to living in the same building..

He was in good health and his mind was sharp...life was not over ...

On a Monday he suddenly had a “turn” of some kind and went into a coma...my sister called an ambulance and he was taken to the hospital..

By Tuesday he had come out of the coma and they gave him every test available...they said they could find NOTHING wrong with him...his heart was sound and that of a much younger man...his organs were all fine...

On Wednesday he was still doing great and they said he could go home tomorrow, Thursday...they expected him to live for years...

The next morning my sister was at the hospital bright and early and was talking to Dad for an hour or 2 while they waited for the Doc to do his rounds and spring Dad...

My sister told me that Dad kept on speaking happily about how much he loved all 4 of us kids and recited cute and funny eposodes in our childhood...

My sister was the eldest so she remembered most of them...

He mentioned events that had not been recalled for decades and she just listened as he laughed and enjoyed the memories..

He had been sitting up in the bed and about 9 AM he leaned back on the pillows and closed his eyes...

She just thought he had worn himself out and might have gone to sleep...

But he had gone home...

Ill always treasure the memory that my Dad’s last few hours were spent thinking about me and my siblings and getting such enjoyment out of remembering us..the ones he loved best in the world...

Yes right now Im crying...

Thats the way to go...

On a day when youre well, not sick and suffering...

and you can still remember the little things...

Of this I am assured...one day I will be with my Dad and Mom in Heaven..

I too will have gone home..

(My mother always spoke of “going home”)


128 posted on 07/26/2011 8:25:44 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Normandy

I may not agree with a faith’s doctrine, but it would be foolish of me to think there was nothing good in any faith but my own.
_________________________________________

and yet to hold onto that temple recommend you have to sustain and agree that theres nothing good in Christianity...

BTW have you ever been to the pageant in Manti ???


129 posted on 07/26/2011 8:31:02 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Normandy; John McDonnell

I know there are many non-Mormon Book of Mormon believers, but I’ve never come across any on FR until now.
____________________________________

AHHHHHHH Normie

John is not “non-mormon”

John IS a mormon...

In fact his off shoot denomination of Mormonism from the original is older than your 1890 version..

His lot happened about 1844 right after Joey Smith got himself killed in that gunfight if Im not mistaken...

His lot OWN the original “temple lot” in Jackson County MO...where you lot are going for the “gathering in to zion”

You better be stay sweet to John...

His lot have more Mormon creds than yours ...

Not much more creds...but a few...

The fLDS Mormons are the real McCoy...


130 posted on 07/26/2011 8:43:41 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

“and yet to hold onto that temple recommend you have to sustain and agree that theres nothing good in Christianity...”

Completely untrue!

(No, never been to Manti)


131 posted on 07/27/2011 2:53:48 AM PDT by Normandy
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To: lawsone; Elsie
Elsie, you can laugh but my wife and I are 85 and use no prescription medication.

Yes, Dr. Leary.


132 posted on 07/27/2011 4:37:33 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Normandy
“and yet to hold onto that temple recommend you have to sustain and agree that theres nothing good in Christianity...”

Completely untrue!

Completely?

So you DON'T have to sustain your Temple Recommend?


Doctrine and Covenants 18:46

And after that you have received this,
if you keep not my commandments
you cannot be saved in the kingdom of my Father.

133 posted on 07/27/2011 4:38:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tennessee Nana
The fLDS Mormons are the real McCoy...

You bet. And they are a very attractive bunch, too...


134 posted on 07/27/2011 4:44:13 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Normandy

(No, never been to Manti)

http://pioneerheritagecenter.org/drupal-6.17/themes/twilight/images/FINAL_1_Welcome_REDSIZE.pdf


135 posted on 07/27/2011 4:49:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: MarkBsnr

They would fit right in with most of society, if those costumes and hairdos got an extreme makeover.


136 posted on 07/27/2011 4:51:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
Does NORM wash his body with strong drink?

Why not make it all inclusive?


137 posted on 07/27/2011 5:03:39 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Elsie
They would fit right in with most of society, if those costumes and hairdos got an extreme makeover.

I'd post a photo of what I saw on the beach of the Med in Spain last time I was there, but extremely attractive young ladies wearing just earrings and a waist chain or ankle bracelet might not sit well with the RM.

138 posted on 07/27/2011 5:08:33 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Elsie
I, John McDonnell, wrote:

But I don't waste the days of my probation attacking Mormons, especially since I am convinced that the Book of Mormon itself is true.

Elsie quoted this statement of mine, and replied in these words:

Well Satan; it's not every day I get to reply directly to you; as it is usually one of your expendable minions that is sent into battle. You DO know your fate; don't you? You time is SHORT: is THAT why you are trying SO hard to steer SO many into YOUR hell? The place CREATED for the DEVIL and his ANGELS??

This takes "demonizing one's opponents" to a new level. What set her off must have been my phrase "the days of my probation", which, as anyone who has calmly read the Book of Mormon knows, is in full harmony with Book of Mormon teachings. My concordance shows 13 occurances of "probation" or "probationary" referring to human life on Earth. It simply means that humans are "tested" by God, which is a solid biblical concept. God tests, Satan tempts. Those who are wise pass God's tests, while not yielding to Satan's tempts away from what is pleasing to God. Within the grace of redemption, our temporal life experiences are a preparation for eternal life experiences, when we will know as we are known.

I don't think that Elsie's reacting to a statement of mine by calling me Satan is the kind of response that is pleasing to God. That it went unchallenged by the many anti-Mormons here says something about them as well. One should be careful that one's zeal for "defending the faith" does descend into hateful name-calling that is lacking in the love for all people that true Christianity is famous for.

139 posted on 07/27/2011 5:59:47 AM PDT by John McDonnell
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To: John McDonnell
My last sentence left out a word that I now restore:

"One should be careful that one's zeal for "defending the faith" does NOT descend into hateful name-calling that is lacking in the love for all people that true Christianity is famous for."

140 posted on 07/27/2011 6:04:30 AM PDT by John McDonnell
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To: Elsie

Not sure what you are driving at, Elsie


141 posted on 07/27/2011 6:31:41 AM PDT by Normandy
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To: MarkBsnr

Smoky Back Room!


142 posted on 07/27/2011 6:56:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: John McDonnell
This takes "demonizing one's opponents" to a new level.

Oh, I think that the MORMONs have that locked up with a lifetime award!

But ANYone who states that they think the BoM is TRUE, is speaking the words of Satan (or they is NUTS!)

One might BELIEVE it true; but THINK it so??

Well...

Illustrate the THINKING process and you may convince me.

143 posted on 07/27/2011 6:59:54 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: John McDonnell
"One should be careful that one's zeal for "defending the faith" does NOT descend into hateful name-calling that is lacking in the love for all people that true Christianity is famous for."

One should be careful that one's zeal for "defending the faith" does NOT descend into hateful name-calling that is lacking in the love for CHRISTIANs that MORMONism is DOCUMENTED as showing!


Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (, p.270).
 
Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (, p. 119).
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" ( 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" ( 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" ( 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" ( 10:230).
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (, p. 255).
 
Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (, 18:172).
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (, 10:127).
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (, p.182).
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (, vol. 3, p.282).
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (, p.316).
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (, vol. 2, p.196).
 

144 posted on 07/27/2011 7:02:51 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Normandy; Tennessee Nana; Elsie

No completely untrue at all.

You DO have to sustain the prophets, apostles and local leadership and those are things that they have said.

Want quotes?


145 posted on 07/27/2011 7:16:45 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: Tennessee Nana; Normandy

You know, Nana, coming out of Mormonism was like waking up from a bad mind fog, like clearing out the cobwebs. I was finally able to start thinking for myself again. I look back on my beliefs and actions when I was LDS and cry out “Dear Lord, what was I thinking??! How could I be so blind?? How could I be so blasphemous!!??” It is like looking back and seeing a different personality in my body.

When I was LDS, I would have cried “Completely Untrue” because I would have just taken the statement at face value, rather than seen it for what it was.

If I sustain the prophets, et al in my recommend interview, then I must by necessity sustain their teachings. Either they are prophets or they are not. If prophets, then their writings are true and consistent. If not, then they are not.

So, since the prophets have over and over again said that Christianity is a pack of nonsense, evil, nothing good etc,(I can provide quotes) then by sustaining them to get and keep my Temple recommend, I must by necessity, agree with their statements.


146 posted on 07/27/2011 7:22:54 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: Elsie; Tennessee Nana

I would love to go to Manti, or even Palmyra for a short term mission. I know a lot of the street preachers who witness at both of them.


147 posted on 07/27/2011 7:26:15 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut; Normandy

When I mentioned Manti, I was wondering if Norm had ever been to the pageant there

Skits mocking Christianity are performed ...

The mormon actors are not the least concerned about looking “foolish for thinking there was nothing good in any faith but their own”


148 posted on 07/27/2011 7:32:14 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: MarkBsnr

The photo would not survive anywhere on Free Republic.


149 posted on 07/27/2011 7:45:26 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

Then it shall remain unposted. :)


150 posted on 07/27/2011 8:31:54 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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