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Is Dispensationalism a Recent Doctrine? How Do YOU Define 'Recent'?
The Omega Letter ^ | August 11, 2011 | Jack Kinsella

Posted on 08/11/2011 4:48:01 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta

One of the most common objections to Dispensationalism offered by Preterists and Covenant theologians is that, according to them, it was an invention based on a 'vision' ascribed to a young Scottish girl named Margaret MacDonald.

As they tell it, in 1830, she had a vision about the end of the world and when she came out from under her trance, she wrote it down. This account attracted the attention of Edward Irving and his church later claimed Margaret as one of their own prophetesses.

Irving also had an interest in prophecy and held prophetic conferences. The historian of Irving's church claimed that Margaret was the first person to teach a two stage second coming of Christ.

John Darby traveled to Scotland to visit the MacDonald home. Darby was a lawyer until a year after his conversion when he was ordained a deacon in the Church of England. Soon after entering the ministry he became disillusioned with the institutional church and started the Brethren movement in Plymouth, England.

Darby became known as the 'father' of Dispensationalism, the first eschatology to incorporate the 'prophecy' of Margaret MacDonald. Darby continued to develop this new view by becoming the first to make a radical distinction between Israel and the Church.

Darby taught that God has two special groups of people (or two Brides) and a separate plan for each of them. This meant Christ would have to return twice.

Covenant theologians sneer that, "this secret rapture was so secret that no one had ever heard of it for 1800 years!" Can that be true?

First, let's clearly define what Dispensationalism means; "the act of dispensing or something dispensed; a specific arrangement or system by which something is dispensed."

Moses dispensed the Law. The word 'dispensation' does not mean a period of time. It means the dispensing of a particular message or ministry. For example, the Church Age began at Pentecost and will end at the Rapture.

". . .Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (Acts 1:11)

The Margaret MacDonald story has been told and retold so many times that most Covenant theologians can recite it in their sleep. There is something about Dispensationalism that makes them see red.

Most Dispensationalists couldn't care less whether or not a segment of the Church believes it will go through the Tribulation. I am among that group.

If somebody trusts Christ for his salvation, but disagrees with the timing, (or even the doctrine) of a secret Rapture, they are still saved.

But I've yet to discuss Dispensationalism with Covenant (or replacement) theologians without being called names like 'false teacher' and 'liar'. The Margaret MacDonald story is included in every missive, so that 'ignorant' can be added to the list.

Is it true? Was the doctrine of Dispensationalism born out of the vision of a Scottish schoolgirl and nurtured by a church who proclaimed her a 'prophetess'? Is Dispensationalism, as replacement theology teaches, such a secret that nobody had heard of it for 1800 years?

In 177 AD, which is, ummm, like 1833 years ago, Irenaeus wrote in 'Against Heresies (1.10)

"What the church believes: One God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who PROCLAIMED THROUGH THE PROPHETS THE DISPENSATONS OF GOD, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His future manifestation from heaven."

In addressing the teachings of an heretical sect called 'Montanists" (today we'd call them 'replacement theologians') Irenaeus wrote;

"Montanists set at naught the gift of the Spirit, which in the latter times has been, by the good pleasure of the Father, poured out upon the human race, do not admit that aspect of the EVANGELICAL DISPENSATION presented by John's Gospel, in which the Lord promised that He would send the Paraclete (John 16); but set aside at once both the Gospel and the prophetic Spirit."

In 'Against Heresies’ 3:15 Irenaeus wrote, “Jesus and the Father are the only true God. Jesus gave Moses the dispensation of the Law."

And, "Some of the orthodox are ignorant of God's dispensations." (Against Heresies 5.32)

Clement of Alexandria (192 AD -- 1,817 years ago) in his 'Stromata (5.3) identified seven distinct Dispensations of God, including the present Age of Grace.

Origin taught Dispensationalism in 230 AD (1,779 years ago). Justin Martyr taught in the 1st century that there were four phases, or dispensations' of human history; Adam to Abraham, Abraham to Moses, Moses to Christ, and Christ to the eternal state.

So, if the early Church fathers taught Dispensationalism, then why so much focus on Margaret MacDonald? How come nobody was teaching Dispensationalism in 1492?

An honest reading of history provides the answer.

When the Emperor Constantine declared Christianity the state Church of Rome, he set into motion a codification process in which ultimately resulted in the Bible being restricted to members of the clergy.

This period is known to history as the 'Dark Ages'. It wasn't until the Bible was made available to the common man that the Protestant Reformation began to take place in the 15th century.

And the Protestant Church was born out of the Roman Catholic Church. While it rejected Catholicism's teaching of salvation by works, it carried with it much of its doctrine, including that of replacement theology.

For almost three hundred years, the Protestant Church continued to accept the Catholic doctrine of replacement theology without challenge. Until Dr. C. I. Schofield reviewed and advanced the teachings of the early Church, publishing his findings in the Schofield Reference Bible.

The Scofield Reference Bible attempted to set in order the right divisions of God's purpose as Scofield understood it. And it is important to note that there is very little similarity between the writings of Scofield and the writings of Darby, despite being assigned joint credit for 'inventing' the doctrine by its critics.

As Christians, we are obligated to search the Scriptures and see if the Bible teaches different dispensations, and if it does, we are obligated to embrace its teaching. If it does not, we are bound to reject it.

There are three things to keep in mind about dispensational teaching. First, it maintains a distinction between Israel and the Church, recognizing God has an eternal, unchanging, Plan for Israel and a different Plan for the Church during the Church Age.

The second is that Dispensationalists hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible, instead of spiritualizing a text or making everything a 'type'.

Thirdly, Dispensationalists believe God's purpose is much bigger than the salvation of mankind. God's purpose centers in His glory.

It was at the Cross we get in on God's blessings and Purpose. However, the Cross is not the center or the end of God's Plan.

The Bible teaches that there have been and will be saved Jews and Gentiles who are not part of the present body of Christ. Moses and Abraham come to mind. So does the Gentile King, Melchizidek. And the Bible teaches that Enoch was not only saved, he was raptured early.

After the Church Age, the Bible teaches that all Israel will be saved at the end of the Tribulation.

Dispensationalists also believe in a literal thousand-year rule of Christ on earth. During that time, Scripture says Israel will be the head of nations and Jerusalem will be the center of government.

The Bible is all about God's kingdom and His Son ruling over it. This is the part where the replacement theologians start turning red. Dispensationalists believe that there is a place for the Jew, the Gentile and the Church of God in this eternal purpose.

Those saved in this age are part of the "Church", which the Bible says is the Body of Christ.

Replacement theology cuts the Jew out of God's Plan, blurs the line between Christian and Gentile, and assumes unto the Church the Promises of God to Israel.

Therefore, according to the modern interpretation of replacement theology, modern-day Israel isn't really the Israel of the Bible. It has no special spiritual connection to the Land.

This theological worldview is behind most mainstream Protestant churches sharing the Vatican's unwavering support for the Palestinian cause.

Replacement theology is also the root cause of modern anti-Semitism. This is why those who hold to it get so nasty when attacking Dispensationalism.

If Dispensationalist truth IS truth, then they are standing against God's Chosen People.

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." (Genesis 12:3)

There are far safer places to stand.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: darby; dispensationalism; israel; johndarby
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LOL!! I do believe Mr. Kinsella may be lurking on Free Republic!

Great article that does an excellent job of setting the record straight.

1 posted on 08/11/2011 4:48:02 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: HushTX; righttackle44; patriot preacher; FrdmLvr; caww; Buddygirl; bareford101; fishtank; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 08/11/2011 4:49:58 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Thanks for the ping.

This controversy is something I’ve very seldom encountered so I am not as familiar with the topic as others.

But I don’t see that there’s a need for nastiness in disagreeing over it.


3 posted on 08/11/2011 4:58:43 PM PDT by metmom (Be the kind of woman that when you wake in the morning, the devil says, "Oh crap, she's UP !!")
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

If I understand it at least a little, the theology of Dispensationalism is much more involved than using the word “dispensation.”

Would it be correct to say that according to Dispensationalism, Jesus’s ministry/teaching was not to/for us?


5 posted on 08/11/2011 5:04:20 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan
In 177 AD, which is, ummm, like 1833 years ago, Irenaeus wrote in 'Against Heresies (1.10) "What the church believes: One God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who PROCLAIMED THROUGH THE PROPHETS THE DISPENSATONS OF GOD, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His future manifestation from heaven." In addressing the teachings of an heretical sect called 'Montanists" (today we'd call them 'replacement theologians') Irenaeus wrote; "Montanists set at naught the gift of the Spirit, which in the latter times has been, by the good pleasure of the Father, poured out upon the human race, do not admit that aspect of the EVANGELICAL DISPENSATION presented by John's Gospel, in which the Lord promised that He would send the Paraclete (John 16); but set aside at once both the Gospel and the prophetic Spirit."

The heart of this article is the section regarding the early church fathers. These quotes, if they hold up in translation, are golden.

6 posted on 08/11/2011 5:08:29 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their VICTORY!)
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To: metmom
The rage over dispensationalism in some quarters involves the discarding of massive amounts of Scripture by those who have basically allegorized the Bible into meaninglessness and the fact that there are Christians who throw a monkey wrench into the works by believing and stating that the Bible is the revelation of God and absolutely true and without error from the first word to the last. People who do believe that Scripture is the inerrant, absolute truth, and authored by God are a threat to those who have convinced themselves that they not only have the authority but the divine wisdom and omniscience to declare that portions of Scripture simply are not true.

This is the only part where I disagree with Mr. Kinsella. I have never found any justification in Scripture for denying any of it, and I don't believe any person who is truly saved and calls themselves "Christian" would ever deny any part of the Book which details the only method which God has provided whereby man can be forgiven of his sin and reconciled to God. If the Bible is not altogether true, then maybe that part is false also. No true Christian is going to take it upon themselves to discard any part of the Bible.

7 posted on 08/11/2011 5:09:41 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: D-fendr

No. It would not be correct to say that.


8 posted on 08/11/2011 5:11:00 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I see.

Like I said, I just wasn’t that familiar with the debate.

Truth is truth and stands alone with or without our approval.


9 posted on 08/11/2011 5:42:26 PM PDT by metmom (Be the kind of woman that when you wake in the morning, the devil says, "Oh crap, she's UP !!")
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Thanks for the ping GN. A great article! It pretty much destroys the arguments of many.

>>Darby taught that God has two special groups of people (or two Brides) and a separate plan for each of them.<<

The church is the bride of Christ and Israel is the bride of the Father.

>>This meant Christ would have to return twice.<<

He does not “return twice”. We go to meet Him in the air in the rapture and then He returns to the earth at the end of the tribulation. Only one more “returning”.

10 posted on 08/11/2011 5:48:22 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I think that the simple answer to the charge that dispensationalism is too new to be correct lies in the fact that from Luthers time to Darby no one actually questioned Covenant Theology from a Biblical perspective. Then came the day when Darby decided to take the teachings of Covenant Theology which had been assumed to be correct and checked them line by line against the Scriptures. The result was the discovery that Covenant Theology is not supported by the teachings of the Bible.

To quote dispensationalist Michael Vlach “in an ironic way, dispensationalism is more desirving of the title covenant theology since it is based on covenants Abrahamic, Davidic, New that are actually found in the Bible while covenant theology is based on the covenants of works, redemption and grace which are not found in the Bible”.


11 posted on 08/11/2011 6:54:21 PM PDT by fatboy (This protestant will have no part in the ecumenical movement)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Insightful post.


12 posted on 08/11/2011 7:15:58 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

LOL, he very well may be a lurker.

No one i know teaches the Church “replaced” Israel.

the Church is Israel!!

The One Olive Tree has a natural JEWISH branch, but Gentile believers are grafted into the tree.

No Replacement! Paul taught that if you belong to Christ, you are an heir to the promises made to Abraham.

Romans 2:29 teaches a true Jew is one inwardly ( faith ) not DNA.

The Israel of God is made of believers, not DNA.


13 posted on 08/11/2011 7:42:05 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Good Essay Thank You GiovannaNicoletta I learned something new. One aspect of childlike faith for me is to be teachable. You have taught me much.

Most Dispensationalists couldn't care less whether or not a segment of the Church believes it will go through the Tribulation. I am among that group.

This is one line that gave me pause. Does it matter from scripture when the rapture happens?

I do realize the main thesis of the essay the dispensational label vs covenant label. BTW Why do we need labels that put us in groups?

14 posted on 08/12/2011 6:10:36 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: CynicalBear
The church is the bride of Christ and Israel is the bride of the Father.

I can see from scripture some basis for this interpretation. My faith and conviction is The Lord Jesus Christ centric for all mankind. Does Israel need faith in Christ to be saved?

15 posted on 08/12/2011 6:16:27 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Is Dispensationalism a Recent Doctrine? How Do YOU Define 'Recent'?

How do you define "dispensationalism"?

First, let's clearly define what Dispensationalism means; "the act of dispensing or something dispensed; a specific arrangement or system by which something is dispensed."

Really? Wow. I guess it depends on what is, is.

Origin taught Dispensationalism in 230 AD (1,779 years ago).

So, the arch-allegorizer Origen, the ECF that every dispensationalist loves to loathe, is rehabilitated now? At least for rhetorical purposes.

In addressing the teachings of an heretical sect called 'Montanists" (today we'd call them 'replacement theologians') Irenaeus wrote;

And this makes me wonder if Mr. Kinsella has any idea what he's talking about.

16 posted on 08/12/2011 7:16:06 AM PDT by Lee N. Field ("evangelicals don't know Torah well enough to be theonomists." --D. G. Hart)
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To: Lee N. Field; GiovannaNicoletta
How does the Apostle Paul define dispensationalism, Lee N. Field?

"If ye have heard of the DISPENSATION OF THE GRACE OF GOD which IS GIVEN ME to you-ward: how that by revelation He made KNOWN UNTO ME, the mystery..." (Eph. 3:2,3,5,6,9).

Evidently Paul knew of a dispensation that was given to him by God. It isn't a RECENT Doctrine at all.

17 posted on 08/12/2011 7:37:11 AM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: marbren
You made the statement that "The Lord Jesus Christ is centric for all mankind".

Absolute truth in those words, as is the entire Bible centered on Jesus Christ. All of mankind, regardless of nationality, gender or race has one path to salvation: each and every individuals faith in Jesus Christ as our Savior. No other path exists and there are no exemptions.

Dispensationalism is a false belief. Please take a moment and go to the link below which briefly explains and biblically shows how this can be a very dangerous path away from our Savior Jesus Christ.

http://www.wels.net/news-events/forward-in-christ/february-2008/take-no-detours?page=0,0

God Bless

18 posted on 08/12/2011 8:14:06 AM PDT by Vegasrugrat
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To: Vegasrugrat

Thank You Vegasrugrat for your kind words and your link.


19 posted on 08/12/2011 8:23:06 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: marbren
>>Does Israel need faith in Christ to be saved?<<

Yes they do and those that do not now, scripture says that they will during the Tribulation.

20 posted on 08/12/2011 8:24:39 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

I agree


21 posted on 08/12/2011 9:32:06 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: Vegasrugrat

I read the link. Very accurate articulate account of the conservative Lutheran position on replacement theology. I embraced the teaching for 30 years in the LCMS. Then I asked God, Why all this Israel stuff in the Bible?


22 posted on 08/12/2011 9:43:16 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: Vegasrugrat
Dispensationalism is a false belief. Please take a moment and go to the link below which briefly explains and biblically shows how this can be a very dangerous path away from our Savior Jesus Christ.

The article you link to is based on ignorance, or deceit...

Millennialism and its synonym, chiliasm, derive their names from the Greek and Latin words for the number one thousand. The devil makes millennialism attractive in the same way he tried to make jumping off the pinnacle of the temple appealing to Jesus: he perverts Scripture.

Not nearly as much as the author of this piece...

Millenarians cite Revelation 20:3 as their proof passage for their final thousand years. Although every picture in the context of this passage is symbolic—and explained as such in the text itself—

This fella is lying...

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

So show us where in the text that it is explained that every thing is symbolic...You guys are counting on preaching this trash to people who don't have bible to check you out...

millenarians teach that the thousand years is a literal thousand years.

The devil makes every aspect of millennialism an appeal to our sinful flesh. The supposed thousand years at the end of the New Testament age offers everybody a second chance to come to faith.

That's an outrageous lie...Those who go into the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ are already saved...

The “second chance” detour appeals to our sinful laziness, which wants to delay attention to our spiritual relationship with God.

Ignorance...

Millennialism teaches that the thousand years will culminate with a physical, military victory of Christians over their enemies at Armageddon.

The Millennium STARTS with the culmination of Armageddon...Not the other way around as this character claims it...

Such an idea invites vengeful temptations to get even with those who persecute us, ridicule our faith, or simply reject our message.

And this is what sold you on being against Dispensationalism??? If that's all it takes, you could easily be a muzlim...

23 posted on 08/12/2011 9:54:21 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool
Iscool, catholics and lutherans see eye to eye on end time events. Martin Luther did not change the catholic teaching. Now if Martin proved catholics were wrong about grace vs works how do we know that catholics were not wrong about Israel?
24 posted on 08/12/2011 11:03:42 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; ...

GREAT ARTICLE.

THANKS.

END TIMES LIST PING


25 posted on 08/12/2011 12:23:06 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Good article. Two slight errors:

Justin Martyr taught in the 2nd century (103-165) not the first, and the Protestant Reformation began in the 16th Century (October 31st, 1517 — Martin Luther nail the “95 Theses” to the door at the Wittenburg Chapel), not the 15th Century....


26 posted on 08/12/2011 12:29:19 PM PDT by patriot preacher
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To: marbren
Does it matter from scripture when the rapture happens?

Well, a person's belief in the timing doesn't affect his salvation, however, the outright denial of the God-give doctrine of the Rapture is a huge problem. And, the denial of the Scripture that tells us the Church will not be here for the Tribulation is a huge problem. If you have to deny Scripture for your belief to work, then your belief is a false doctrine.

No true Christian will deny any part of Scripture.

As has been demonstrated repeatedly on this forum, God assures us that He will take His bride off the scene before He sends judgment. And, since He tells us to "comfort one another" with those assurances, we can rest easy knowing that we are not destined for the judgment God has for those who have chosen to reject Him and who love evil and love to practice evil.

BTW Why do we need labels that put us in groups?

The way one reads and interprets Scripture is extremely important and can affect a person's eternal destiny. If someone believes that the Scripture is not entirely true, or is fallible, or has errors, that is going to influence his worldview, and how he lives his life. If a person believes that the Scripture should not be taken as God gave it to us, but that men have the omniscience and the authority to allegorize the Bible, which makes it meaningless and open to any view that any person may have, this can also affect a person's eternal destiny. After all, if the Bible has errors, or is open to being allegorized, how do we know that Jesus Christ really died to rescue mankind? Who is to say?

Unfortunately, "labels" are sometimes necessary because labels enable people to distinguish between belief systems. If, for example, someone takes it upon himself to allegorize the book of Revelation, which, again, takes what God intended for man to have as a warning and as a gift to know how this age is going to end, and we see, in our generation, the technology necessary for the literal fulfillment of Revelation 13:16 ready to be implemented, then those who have bought into the idea that the book of Revelation is nothing but a fairy tale, a book of meaningless symbols, are not going to recognize this stage-setting for what it is. A dispensationalist will tell people that that verse is a literal, future prophecy that is in the process of being fulfilled in our generation. A person who allegorizes that passage will tell you not what God tell us, but what he thinks it means. And, you will get a different interpretation from each person who believes that that Scripture should not be taken literally, but as some kind of symbol that really doesn't mean anything.

So it is very important to have labels so that people can differentiate between truth and error; between deception and trustworthiness.

27 posted on 08/12/2011 4:40:07 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: Iscool
Have you ever noticed that those who hate the dispensational method of reading the Bible can never legitimately refute it?

They always have to use deceit and smarmy, irrelevant "authors", and they can never disprove dispensational methods using Scripture.

That tells all we need to know.

28 posted on 08/12/2011 4:44:28 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Wow! Great answers to my concerns Thank You GiovannaNicoletta! I agree with everything you said. My group I guess is Dispensational Lutheran. I am the only member however from my experience LOL.
29 posted on 08/12/2011 5:01:54 PM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: xzins
The heart of this article is the section regarding the early church fathers. These quotes, if they hold up in translation, are golden.

I thought that this article was written by the religion editor of the Onion when I saw the battle being fought over the use of a word "Dispensation" as if the future seven year Tribulation and division of the People of God by some cracked pot American evangelicals is the definition of "Dispensation".

What is hysterically funny is that the author thinks that Irenaeus wrote in 20th century English, but what is sad is the number of people who have no skills in critical thinking go along with this absurdity.

Nonetheless, you asked if this held up to translation, and I am almost ashamed to admit that I had to do spend a whole minute googling this up and read it for myself, knowing full well that the premise is a joke. Here is the text in the updated Greek (the last line of page 90 in the Greek and the first line on the next page in Latin), translated into Latin where you find the word 'dispositeones' in the Latin (which doesn't mean what Dispensationalists think it means) and, of course the Greek 'οίκονομίας' (NT:3622) which is two words "house" and "law" which usually refers to the management of a household. Paul, in 1 Cor 9:17 uses the same word in such a way that the KJV renders it as "dispensation" yet the NAS and NKJV says "stewardship" and the NIV spells it out in "trust committed to me".

Even "Vines" weighed in on the word, knowing how much it has been abused, added to their dictionary:

Note: A "dispensation" is not a period or epoch (a common, but erroneous, use of the word), but a mode of dealing, an arrangement or administration of affairs. Cf. oikonomos, "a steward," and oikonomeo, "to be a steward." (from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

Therefore, the author of this article is clearly abusing the word "Dispensation" and thus has probably earned the characterization of "liar" and "false teacher".

30 posted on 08/12/2011 6:08:39 PM PDT by The Theophilus (Obama's Key to win 2012: Ban Haloperidol)
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To: Lee N. Field; one Lord one faith one baptism; Vegasrugrat
Really, this must be from the Onion. Its really that bad. This joker knows that Dispensationalists are some of the most ignorant and gullible narcissists who are fully incapable of critical thinking skills so much so that they will just accept the writings and comprehend it in the exact same way they read Bible prophecy: By reading a passage, converting it to fit a modern scenario, and rejecting all of the surrounding passages that would nullify the conversion.

Lets draw a random sample here to prove the point.

"Clement of Alexandria (192 AD -- 1,817 years ago) in his 'Stromata (5.3) identified seven distinct Dispensations of God, including the present Age of Grace."

I'm reading Clement right here and I don't see any such thing. In fact "Stromateis" 5.3 is titled (in English) "The Object of Faith and Hope Perceived by the Mind" and there is nothing in there about division, ages, dispensations anything. The author assumes that his readers won't bother to check and will mindlessly accept his lies.

But it gets better...

"The second is that Dispensationalists hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible, instead of spiritualizing a text or making everything a 'type'."

Let me present, from the same book "Stromateis" some chapter titles:

Clement sounds like he is a strong literalist and Dispensationalist of the Bible, huh? </sarc>

So what is a Dispensationalist going to do? Embrace the non-existent "dispesnations" allegedly taught by Clement and then conveniently disregard the 95% of the same book that speaks about allegory, symbols, mysteries and abstractions as being ways to convey God's Truth? If you are a true Dispensationalist, of course this is what you do. Contort and bend what you think you can get away with, and then categorically reject and ignore all that which contradicts. Standard MO.

"The Bible is all about God's kingdom and His Son ruling over it. This is the part where the replacement theologians start turning red."

Typical Dispensationalist. Just state an open lie and use that as an introduction into attacking the saints of God who have not fallen prey to the Futurist Cabal. Note no supporting Scripture. But the Bible is about Jesus Christ. (John 1:45;5:38-39 Luke 24:44; Acts 26;22) When the Bible speaks of the Kingdom, it has absolutely nothing to do with an earthly kingdom Jn 18:36, or this party-pooper passage to the Dispensationalists:

"The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." ( Luke 17:20-21 )

The Dispies must reject this passage wholesale because they keep pointing to the modern secular God hating nation Israel and saying that is the physical location of God's [future] Kingdom.

Of course, you can't be a real Dispensationalist until you just blurt out pure blasphemy:

"The Bible teaches that there have been and will be saved Jews and Gentiles who are not part of the present body of Christ. Moses and Abraham come to mind."

Strangely, there are no references to back that outrageous statement up. But we do have Matthew 13:17 Hebrews 11:23-29 or John 5:46 to remind us that Moses did look to Christ. And of course we have Hebrews 11:8,17 to counter the heresy that the author is delivering regarding Abraham. But the Dispensationalists here wouldn't know the Gospel anyway so they wouldn't see that statement from Hell. That explans why John Hagee believes in Christless salvation for the Jews and is committed to the idea that the Jews do not need the Gospel -- ergo, they don't need Jesus Christ.

Here is an interesting gem of Psychological Projection:

"Replacement theology is also the root cause of modern anti-Semitism. This is why those who hold to it get so nasty when attacking Dispensationalism."

First off, he begins his statement with a very well refuted lie and slander - and then hypocritically calls the saints of God "nasty" in his nasty attack against us. Second, it is ultra-Dispensationalist John Hagee who wants to see Jews burn in eternal Hell by refusing to preach the Gospel to them - and he presses others of his kind to refuse to preach to Jews also. Third, it is the Dispensationalists who fantasize about two-thirds of the world's Jews being slaughtered. I don't know of any non-Dispensationalist who wants to see another Jewish holocaust. Yet Dispensationalists teach it as if it is fact. Remember! According to their warped and depraved thinking Jesus loves the Jews so much that He will slaughter most of them and make them suffer through the bloodiest and most violent Tribulation!

When it comes to anti-Semitism, the Dysfunctionalists conveniently forget that the "Semitism" comes from one of Noah's sons Shem and includes 480 million people living today. So while they fantasize about millions of Jews being brutally slaughtered, they also openly advocate and wish that hundreds of millions of other "Semites" aka Arabs and Middle Easterners, are vaporized after suffering famines, plagues, war, pestilences and other calamities. Dispensationalists often in this forum wish death and destruction upon hundreds of millions of Semites. They are the true monsters whose dreams if come true would have a larger body count than all of the murders committed by the Hitlers, Stalins, Maos, Pol Pots, Castros et al over the past millennium.

Maybe Jack Kinsella ought to hold back that outrageous "anti-Semitism" card, especially when he slanders us by calling us "replacementarians" and hypocritically accuses us of "nasty" attacks. Speaking Truth to this demon and the people who blindly embrace this dreck is not "nasty", rather it is heaping upon them the condemnation of rejecting the Gospel - which is what Dispensationalism is really all about.

31 posted on 08/12/2011 7:26:31 PM PDT by The Theophilus (Obama's Key to win 2012: Ban Haloperidol)
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To: The Theophilus
I'm reading Clement right here and I don't see any such thing. In fact "Stromateis" 5.3 is titled (in English) "The Object of Faith and Hope Perceived by the Mind" and there is nothing in there about division, ages, dispensations anything. The author assumes that his readers won't bother to check and will mindlessly accept his lies.

Thank You for pointing this out, I am willing to take your word for this one as you do have a copy of Stromateis in front of you. I may have run into the same type of difficulty when when Dr. Thomas Ice tried to make the point that the word apostasy may be defined as departure (rapture). Best construction might be we all see through a glass darkly.

The neat thing about FR is someone else might show you how you are wrong. Then it goes back and forth and maybe we can learn something.

BTW your rejection of dispensationalism comes through loud and clear. I do feel, and I am sure you would agree, that you are convicted of this and your mind is made up and closed. That is okay we do have freedom of religion still (for a while) in this country and I do enjoy the persecution of my faith.

Also, I am curious as to what religious group you belong to? If you are Roman Catholic you do think for yourself which is refreshing.

32 posted on 08/13/2011 2:16:56 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
As we get to the end of this world as we have known it I sense some sharp divisions forming in no particular order:

Religion vs Christianity

Reason vs Faith

covenant vs replacement

Israel vs World

Flesh vs Spirit

denial vs truth

fear vs hope

World system vs God's Kingdom

Church vs Israel

group vs individual

of Christ vs in Christ

Now vs past and future

relationship vs knowledge of

being vs having

being vs wanting

disappointment vs expectations

denominations vs unity

weeds vs wheat

visible church vs invisible church

33 posted on 08/13/2011 2:42:00 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: The Theophilus
What is hysterically funny is that the author thinks that Irenaeus wrote in 20th century English, but what is sad is the number of people who have no skills in critical thinking go along with this absurdity.

Well welcome...I'm glad we got one of them thar critical thinkers amongst us...

1Co 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation administration/stewardship of the gospel is committed unto me.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation administration/stewardship of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation administration/stewardship of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Administration/stewardship doesn't fit...You'd have to change the rest of each passage to get any sense out of Administration/stewardship...

In Col. 1:25-27 there is a new revelation not heretofore known...It wasn't known because it didn't exist...

Something new takes place from that point on...

It is not merely an administration but a new dispensation for future Christians...

dis·pen·sa·tion    [dis-puhn-sey-shuhn, -pen-] Show IPA noun

1.
an act or instance of dispensing; distribution.
2.
something that is distributed or given out.
3.
a certain order, system, or arrangement; administration or management.
4.
Theology . a.
the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
b.
an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
c.
a divinely appointed order or age: the old Mosaic, or
Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian,
dispensation.
5.
a dispensing with, doing away with, or doing without
something.

34 posted on 08/13/2011 6:30:46 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: The Theophilus
Search the Scriptures and see for yourself—no prophet ever comes from Galilee!

I just read this verse for John's gospel 7:52 and would like your insight. Is there a verse in the OT that says this or is it just the common sense of the pharisees saying it? I do not know.

35 posted on 08/13/2011 6:34:33 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: Iscool
Thank You Iscool for that insight!
36 posted on 08/13/2011 6:36:44 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Have you ever noticed that those who hate the dispensational method of reading the Bible can never legitimately refute it?

Not only that, they also can't make sense of the scriptures...Nothing fits...And when it doesn't fit, they say it's symbolic...

But for the life of them, they can't figure out what the passages symbolize...

37 posted on 08/13/2011 6:58:44 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: marbren
Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

That's ALL the counsel of God...

So then we have to wonder; were the Apostles as ignorant as we of all these 'symbolic' things in the scriptures they wrote, or were they privy to them and God told them not to reveal what all those symbols are...

The whole council of God was 90% symbolic, of something???

I don't think so...

38 posted on 08/13/2011 7:07:02 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool
LOL!!! You're exactly right!

It'd be so much easier just to believe what God said and take Him at His word.

But then again, taking Him at His word opens up an entirely different can of worms that can be very unpleasant to think about...

39 posted on 08/13/2011 7:51:48 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: The Theophilus
"The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." ( Luke 17:20-21 )

The Dispies must reject this passage wholesale

I love this passage

40 posted on 08/13/2011 7:57:40 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: Iscool
I agree, Thank You Iscool.
41 posted on 08/13/2011 7:59:58 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: marbren
It's a wonderful passage that describes this present Age of Grace- it describes the true bride of Christ; those who know Christ as Savior and have the indwelling Holy Spirit living within them.

But Jesus gave us something to look forward to - His literal, thousand-year reign on earth, the description of which, when we read it in Scriptures, certainly isn't talking about conditions which exist today.

There is the "kingdom" of Christ which exists in those who have accepted Him as Savior and a future, thousand year kingdom, which is also in Scripture and cannot be discarded by anyone who truly knows Christ, which Jesus tells us will exist.

42 posted on 08/13/2011 8:24:37 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I agree! Thank You GiovannaNicoletta


43 posted on 08/13/2011 8:28:04 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: marbren

There is no quote in the Old Testament that says that.
Jonah and Nahum were from Galilee.


44 posted on 08/13/2011 8:44:03 AM PDT by Lera
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To: Lera

Thank You Lera for helping my laziness in looking for me. I wonder why the pharisees believed this?


45 posted on 08/13/2011 8:48:34 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

How strong are the Post trib and mid trib rapture positions these days. To me the problem of interpretation always seems to come down to Who Is Israel? Way back in transition from my replacement theology days I did embrace Rosenthal’s pre wrath rapture position for a little while.


46 posted on 08/13/2011 9:02:01 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: marbren
Yes, marbren, it seems like everything is being stripped away and what is left is not the "education" or "theology" or anything else in which men believe their security lies.

We are quickly getting down to the nitty gritty: either you believe in Christ and His death on the cross as the only path to reconciliation with the Father or you don't; you either believe the Scriptures as God wrote them, especially as those last-days Scriptures are happening before our eyes or you don't; you either take what you have been told and taught and compare that with what God says in the Bible to find out what is fact and truth or you don't.

The fact that we are so close to Christ taking His bride home is magnified by the way that so many false doctrines, in light of Scripture and what is going on in the world, are being exposed for what they are - alternatives to the truth of Scripture provided to man by Satan and tailor-made for each personality.

It's gotten down to the bare metal, and as we progress in the plan of God to wrap up this age and bring in His kingdom, we will continue to see those who have rejected the truth of God for lies either repent and come to Christ for salvation, or become more determined and entrenched in their rebellion.

When it's all said and done, the entire universe will know that God was entirely justified in how He destroyed evil and those who practice evil and not only reject Him themselves, but do their best to cause others to reject Him as they have done.

The Tribulation will make perfect sense and we will rejoice at God's holy justice and righteousness.

47 posted on 08/13/2011 9:11:45 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: Iscool
LOL!!! You're a gem, Iscool!

Thank you for so expertly pointing out the absurdities of attempting to supplant the clear, concise words of God for anything one can find to make the Bible irrelevant.

You did a superb job, by the way!!

48 posted on 08/13/2011 9:15:22 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
I agree GiovannaNicoletta! I do belive you are still batting 1000 with your posts and comments from my perspective IMHO.
49 posted on 08/13/2011 9:19:07 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but Thank God God knows)
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To: marbren
How strong are the Post trib and mid trib rapture positions these days

I believe that the fact that the prophecies given to us by God to look for for His return are falling into place in our time means we have no choice but to accept that the rest of the Scriptures, including those passages in which He assures His bride that He will take us home before the Tribulation, are going to happen just as He says they will.

50 posted on 08/13/2011 9:23:27 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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