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Why God Did Not Elect Calvinists...
DouglasHamp.com ^ | July 1, 2011 | Douglas Hamp

Posted on 08/27/2011 2:14:11 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta

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Full title: Why God Did Not Elect Calvinists: The Biblical Concept of Election Never Means Predestined to Salvation and Commonly is a Reference to Israel"
1 posted on 08/27/2011 2:14:12 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Great news! When Jesus said He died for the entire world and that salvation is available to everyone, He was telling the truth!

It turns out that God does not have a list of special people who are to be saved with everyone else going to hell, but the Scripture is true when it says that it's not God's will that any should perish.

We can all breathe a little easier now!

2 posted on 08/27/2011 2:16:27 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Why God Did Not Elect Calvinists...

Cuz Catholics (Kennedy, Napolitano, Sebelius, Biden, et al) can do more to hasten the Second Coming?

3 posted on 08/27/2011 2:19:03 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

You are truly blessed to know the mind of God.


4 posted on 08/27/2011 2:22:13 PM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: stuartcr
I just know what God has told us.

The difference between me and some others is I believe God tells the truth and that I am not qualified to deny His word.

I think that will count for something when I have to face Him.

5 posted on 08/27/2011 2:23:50 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
"Why God Did Not Elect Calvinists..."

Because God abhors religion.

6 posted on 08/27/2011 2:27:50 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Obama is bad luck for the US.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
No man is of knowledge to out wit God. Man in his arrogance thinks he can, but he will find out at the Great White Throne of Judgment just how WRONG he was. The Gospel as preached by St. Paul is simple. 1 Cor 15: 1-4 completely and utterly covers it. Simple as those four verses is all that is need.
7 posted on 08/27/2011 2:30:05 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY mouth shall say: Jesus Christ IS LORD!!!!)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Great news! That means I do not have to be obedient to God, I can ignore God, I can even spit in his general direction, and I will be saved, becuase he will not judge anyone. Hurrah!!!

For those of you who are not aware... that was sarcasm.


8 posted on 08/27/2011 2:59:42 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

So... when it says that God will judge the people, will separate the wheat from the chaff, will separate the sheep from the goats, when he says he will cast those who have rejected him into the lake of fire... when God says all those things, he was just kidding, because he loves us all, and will not let us perish, right?


9 posted on 08/27/2011 3:02:18 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: irishtenor

I’m glad to see it was sarcasm because I was just going to ask that you provide the supporting Scriptures!


10 posted on 08/27/2011 3:02:23 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: irishtenor
He loves us all and died for us all and for those who make the choice to reject His offer of salvation, they will, after the Tribulation is finished, be separated from those who did choose to accept Christ's offer of salvation, and they will be cast into hell.

It's all in the Bible. Just read it.

11 posted on 08/27/2011 3:04:51 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Do you think God knows who will make that choice?
Do you think that God knew from the beginning who he would save, and conversely knew who he would not save?
Do you think that we will just show up in heaven some day and God will say, “how in the heck did you get in?”


12 posted on 08/27/2011 3:07:32 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Oh, I’ve read the Bible.
I’m one of those... brace yourself... Calvinists. I am evil. I am here to confuse and distort everything you believe.


13 posted on 08/27/2011 3:09:14 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: irishtenor

Did you read the article or are you just going by the title?


14 posted on 08/27/2011 3:10:52 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: irishtenor

Read the article. Then you can post all the Scriptures from the article that you’re prepared to deny.


15 posted on 08/27/2011 3:12:25 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

God’s thoughts and actions are so far advanced above our ways. I did not get very far in the less than elementary attempt at explaining the thoughts of the one that made geniuses.


16 posted on 08/27/2011 3:20:25 PM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I read the article. I could point out many assumptions made in the article, not in the scripture, which is true and accurate, but some of the assumptions are grossly wrong.

You see, Calvinists aren’t saying that some will burn in Hell and some will go to Heaven, the Bible says it.
Does God have a “list”? Probably not, but He does know who will accept him and who will not, therefore, God DOES know who will perish and who Jesus died for.
Will there be “universal” salvation? No, otherwise Jesus would have said something along the lines of “Don’t worry, I’ve got everything covered.” Instead, Jesus said that he knew every person he died for.


17 posted on 08/27/2011 3:22:28 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: mountainlion
Yeah I know but He did give us His thoughts and commandments and plans for man and therefore we have no excuse to claim ignorance of Him.

He's given us a book with everything we need to know about Him. We have no excuse.

18 posted on 08/27/2011 3:23:14 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Who says I am going to deny scripture?
I deny your assumptions about what scripture says.


19 posted on 08/27/2011 3:24:04 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

We worship God, not Allah.

God reveals himself throughout scripture and especially through His incarnation.

Our God is not inscrutable. Calvinism is heresy.


20 posted on 08/27/2011 3:26:30 PM PDT by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: Jim Noble

Interesting point of view. I would say otherwise.


21 posted on 08/27/2011 3:27:26 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: irishtenor
You see, Calvinists aren’t saying that some will burn in Hell and some will go to Heaven, the Bible says it.

Calvinists claim that God has a list of special, pre-selected people who will be given eternal life and anyone not on the list is doomed to hell with no say so. There is not one verse of Scripture to validate that.

Does God have a “list”? Probably not, but He does know who will accept him and who will not, therefore, God DOES know who will perish and who Jesus died for.

That's true, and nowhere in Scripture do the words "elect", or "election", or "chosen" refer to eternal life.

Will there be “universal” salvation? No, otherwise Jesus would have said something along the lines of “Don’t worry, I’ve got everything covered.” Instead, Jesus said that he knew every person he died for.

The fact that Jesus knows who will accept Him and who will not does not mean that He makes the decision for people nor does it mean that "chosen" and "election" refer to those who have been "predetermined" for salvation. Jesus also knew 2000 years ago what events would transpire in the world before His return and included that knowledge in Scripture so that we would know what season we were in when those events began to happen. Jesus is God which means He knows past, present, and future. Just because He knows the decisions someone will make does not mean He makes the decisions for them.

Jesus made the sacrifice, and it is up to each individual to accept that sacrifice as payment for sin.

22 posted on 08/27/2011 3:32:35 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: irishtenor; GiovannaNicoletta

Here is another thing I find interesting. You post a hit piece on Calvinism, and when one shows up to talk about it, you shut up.

Please answer these questions: Does God know who will enter the kingdome of heaven? When did he know? Did Jesus die for everybody, or did he die for only those he knew would be given to him by his Father? Will everybody be in heaven, or will some perish in the lake of fire? Does God know who will die in the lake of fire?

Let’s talk about your answers to these questions. You may use scripture to bolster your arguement, I know I will.


23 posted on 08/27/2011 3:38:44 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Oh, you believe in “free will”. How wonderful for you that you were smart enough to choose the winning side.

Unfortunately, the Bible doesn’t say YOU get to choose. God chooses.


24 posted on 08/27/2011 3:41:13 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

***Calvinists claim that God has a list of special, pre-selected people who will be given eternal life and anyone not on the list is doomed to hell with no say so. ***

See, there ya go, distorting and making claims with no knowledge.

God “selected, elected, preordained, predetermined, chose, however you want to say it” people from his creation that he wanted with him in heaven. He chose, we had nothing to do with it. All of these words have a similar meaning, and to say that one of these words “elect”, doesn’t mean savation... well, you can make that claim. But when God says that he will gather “HIS” elect from the four corners of the heavens (Matthew 24) I take it to mean that He elected, He chose, He predetermined, not man.


25 posted on 08/27/2011 3:49:21 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; irishtenor
An interesting turn.

All religious movements go through this ~ the first rush of having "the truth" and the later "reconsideration" and finally "Oh, hey, it didn't mean exactly that ~ it meant this".

So, predestinarianism actually means "performance specification" not "military specification" (milspec).

Then there's quantum mechanics ~ carries elements of both except when it's bobbing up and down screwing with signal strength and frequency.

26 posted on 08/27/2011 3:55:45 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

***That’s true, and nowhere in Scripture do the words “elect”, or “election”, or “chosen” refer to eternal life. ***

How about Ephesians 1:4-5? Or 2 Thes. 2:13? or even 2 Peter 2:9?


27 posted on 08/27/2011 3:58:27 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: irishtenor
You post a hit piece on Calvinism, and when one shows up to talk about it, you shut up.

LOL!! When did I shut up? I told you to read the article so that you would have a reference point instead of going by the title. That doesn't fit the definition of "shutting up". And it's interesting that you regard an article which is about the truth of Scripture to be a "hit piece". Very revealing.

Does God know who will enter the kingdome of heaven?

Yep. He is God and knows past, present and future.

When did he know? Did Jesus die for everybody, or did he die for only those he knew would be given to him by his Father?

According to the book He wrote, He died for everyone. Scriptural proofs: Ephesians 2:8, Romans 10:17, Jaes 1:21, Isaiah 1:18, Deuteronomy 30:19 Joshua 24:15, Psalm 119:30, 111, 173, John 1:12 2 Timothy 1:12, 1 Peter 1:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Luke 7:50, Ephesians 2:8, 1 Timothy 4:10, 1 John 2:2, Hebrews 2:9, 1 Timothy 2:4.

Will everybody be in heaven, or will some perish in the lake of fire?

According to Revelation 21:27, only those whose names are in the Lamb's Book of Life will go to Heaven. According to Luke 16:22-26, two men died, one went to Heaven and one to hell. It's all there in Scripture.

Does God know who will die in the lake of fire?

Of course. He's God and knows past, present and future.

28 posted on 08/27/2011 3:58:37 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: irishtenor

Post the supporting Scriptures.


29 posted on 08/27/2011 3:59:47 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I think this interpretation linking election with Israel only is in error. Election is not individual, but corporate - we are elect if we are “in Christ”.

All placed in Christ by believing the promise of God are elect.

“To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus...

...4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.”

Lots of good info here:

http://evangelicalarminians.org/taxonomy/term/21


30 posted on 08/27/2011 4:02:41 PM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: irishtenor
See, there ya go, distorting and making claims with no knowledge.

Weeellll, not really. I had a Calvinist on this very forum tell me that God chooses who goes to Heaven and who goes to hell. She said this without providing supporting Scriptures, of course, because there are none. But she definitely stated that Jesus did not die for everyone.

God “selected, elected, preordained, predetermined, chose, however you want to say it” people from his creation that he wanted with him in heaven. He chose, we had nothing to do with it. All of these words have a similar meaning, and to say that one of these words “elect”, doesn’t mean savation... well, you can make that claim. But when God says that he will gather “HIS” elect from the four corners of the heavens (Matthew 24) I take it to mean that He elected, He chose, He predetermined, not man.

Post the supporting Scriptures. Post one verse of Scripture where God uses the word "elect" to refer to eternal life.

31 posted on 08/27/2011 4:03:01 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

***According to the book He wrote, He died for everyone... According to Revelation 21:27, only those whose names are in the Lamb’s Book of Life will go to Heaven. ***

Intersting... according to you, Jesus died for everyone’s sins, but it was ineffectual, because some people died and burn in the lake of fire.
So Jesus’ efforts weren’t enough to save everybody? Or do WE need to participate? Jesus’ sacrifice was not enough, we are the ones who REALLY make it happen by us CHOOSING God, right?

***Of course. He’s God and knows past, present and future.***

Now you got me confused. Then there IS a list. God has it.


32 posted on 08/27/2011 4:04:13 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Why is this so seemingly hard to grasp to some? Israel was chosen by God to be a Kingdom of Priests to all the nations. Ex. 19:3-6; Isa:61:4-6; Zech. 8:13, 20-23. Through Israel would all the nations be blessed. God gave the Nation Israel the Law. And Gentile salvation was available only through the Nation Israel, either by becoming a proselyte: Esther 8:17, Exodus 12:48, Isaiah 56. Or put himself in the place of blessing by blessing Israel: Gen. 12:3, 1 Kings 17:10-15, Joshua 2:9-11, 11 Kings 5:15,17.

This is what the entire OT and Matt. Mark, Luke and John focuses on, Israel and the coming Messiah to set up His Kingdom on Earth whereby Israel would be a Kingdom of Priests. But when they rejected Him and His Messiahship, gentiles were basically without hope.

Until God raised up another apostle, Paul, and gave to him the Dispensation of the Grace of God. Whereby Jews and Gentiles are declared by God equal. Until Israel was blinded and set aside, though, they still had the opportunity to accept Christ and bring in His Kingdom. That is why Paul goes to the Jew first and performs Jewish practices. As long as they had that opportunity, they reigned supreme.

Once the Church the Body of Christ is raptured, God once again starts dealing with the Nation Israel, the middle wall of partition goes back up, and the tribulation will bring about those who will go into the Kingdom. Those who endure to the end. That Kingdom of Priests that God promised them.

Without Paul's Epistles and letters the whole Bible is about prophecy concerning a Nation. Israel. It is only in Paul's writings that we learn that God, during Israel's blindness, has given Gentiles a way to be saved apart from Israel. The Cross. It's called the Mystery Hid in God.

Basically the Bible can be divided into two parts, prophecy and mystery.

33 posted on 08/27/2011 4:05:12 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Ok, God choses. How about Ephesians 1:4-5? Or 2 Thes. 2:13? or even 2 Peter 2:9?


34 posted on 08/27/2011 4:05:16 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I just did, in Matthew 24. God gathers HIS elect.


35 posted on 08/27/2011 4:08:18 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: irishtenor; GiovannaNicoletta

“He chose, we had nothing to do with it.”

Odd. Jesus preached, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” (Mark 1)

Note he did not preach, “Some of you must repent and believe, and others cannot - so let’s find out which is which!”


36 posted on 08/27/2011 4:08:54 PM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: Mr Rogers

And we are all called to preach to the unbeliever,and make disciples, because we do not know WHO it is God chose. (Matthew 28)


37 posted on 08/27/2011 4:14:09 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: irishtenor
Ephesians 1:4-5?

From the article:

"There remain a number of verses that speak of the elect in the New Testament. In light of all that we have studied we can confidently know that they have nothing to do with the Calvinistic idea of predestined to salvation or damnation. Furthermore, in almost all of the cases, understanding them to be a reference to the Jews, God’s chosen people, is warranted. Let’s briefly consider those remaining. When Jesus spoke of God avenging “His own elect who cry out day and night to Him,” (Luke 18:7) He was talking about the Jews. “Rufus, chosen in the Lord,” (Rom 16:13) may be speaking of him being Jewish. This would make the most sense given that of the many other (obviously) believing brothers and sisters in the chapter, only Rufus is called elect. Why would Paul refer to only him as being elect, if the Calvinistic definition of election were true? Were the others not also heirs of eternal life? Understanding that elect/election is not salvation and is generally a reference to the Jews the passage makes complete sense. It must be noted that Priscilla and Aquila, from Rome, were also Jewish and yet were not called elect. Could it be that because Paul had nothing else to say about Rufus that he simply stated that he was chosen/elect in the Lord? Ephesians 1:4 ought to be viewed in light of the chosen people, Israel: “just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love," (Eph 1:4). We know that Paul traveled to Ephesus and there spent three months reasoning with the Jews in the synagogues (Acts 19:1-8). Thus, Ephesians seems to be once again, for “the Jew first and then the Gentile” paradigm."

Ephesians 1:4-5 does not support Calvinism.

Or 2 Thes. 2:13?

From the article:

"The letter to the Thessalonians is also a letter to the Jews first and then the Gentiles. In Acts 17 we read “they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures… and some of them were persuaded and … joined Paul and Silas.”​ (Acts 17:1, 2, 4) With that in mind, we can see why Paul would say “we give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers… knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God." (1 Thes 1:2, 4) Once again, election is not Calvinistic in its definition, but Jewish."

2 Thessalonians 2:13 does not support Calvinism.

or even 2 Peter 2:9?

then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment

That has absolutely nothing to do with Calvinism and certainly does not "validate" Calvinism in any way.

38 posted on 08/27/2011 4:16:17 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: irishtenor

:)


39 posted on 08/27/2011 4:19:52 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Mr Rogers

***Note he did not preach, “Some of you must repent and believe, and others cannot - so let’s find out which is which!”***

However, he did say, “Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, “to yu it has been given toi know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, buit to them it has not been given.” Matthew 13:10-11.


40 posted on 08/27/2011 4:20:01 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

***”There remain a number of verses that speak of the elect in the New Testament. In light of all that we have studied we can confidently know that they have nothing to do with the Calvinistic idea of predestined to salvation or damnation. Furthermore, in almost all of the cases, understanding them to be a reference to the Jews, God’s chosen people, is warranted. Let’s briefly consider those remaining. When Jesus spoke of God avenging “His own elect who cry out day and night to Him,” (Luke 18:7) He was talking about the Jews. “Rufus, chosen in the Lord,” (Rom 16:13) may be speaking of him being Jewish. This would make the most sense given that of the many other (obviously) believing brothers and sisters in the chapter, only Rufus is called elect. Why would Paul refer to only him as being elect, if the Calvinistic definition of election were true? Were the others not also heirs of eternal life? Understanding that elect/election is not salvation and is generally a reference to the Jews the passage makes complete sense. It must be noted that Priscilla and Aquila, from Rome, were also Jewish and yet were not called elect. Could it be that because Paul had nothing else to say about Rufus that he simply stated that he was chosen/elect in the Lord? Ephesians 1:4 ought to be viewed in light of the chosen people, Israel: “just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,” (Eph 1:4). We know that Paul traveled to Ephesus and there spent three months reasoning with the Jews in the synagogues (Acts 19:1-8). Thus, Ephesians seems to be once again, for “the Jew first and then the Gentile” paradigm.”

Ephesians 1:4-5 does not support Calvinism***

See, here is where a person must look to the whole and not the part. The ASSUMPTION is that Paul is speaking to the Jews. How that assumption is made, I’ll never know. If you were to look just a few, only a few words above Ephesians 1:4, you would find that...GASP... Paul wrote this letter TO BELIEVERS IN EPHESUS, not to Jews. When he says “Just as he chose US”... Paul was talking to CHRISTIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


41 posted on 08/27/2011 4:25:47 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: irishtenor
Intersting... according to you, Jesus died for everyone’s sins, but it was ineffectual, because some people died and burn in the lake of fire. So Jesus’ efforts weren’t enough to save everybody? Or do WE need to participate? Jesus’ sacrifice was not enough, we are the ones who REALLY make it happen by us CHOOSING God, right?

Provide the Scriptures that state that God chooses who will accept Christ, and who will not. God said:

You'll have to find Scripture that contradicts the above to make your belief work. Good luck.

Now you got me confused. Then there IS a list. God has it.

Provide the supporting Scriptures.

42 posted on 08/27/2011 4:28:57 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: irishtenor
I just did, in Matthew 24. God gathers HIS elect.

Jesus was speaking to a Jewish audience in Matthew 24. His "elect" in Matthew 24 refers to Jewish and Tribulation believers after the Tribulation is finished. The Church had not yet been established at the time Jesus spoke to His disciples in Matthew 24 and Matthew 24 does not refer to the Church or to Christians.

Matthew 24 does not validate Calvinism.

43 posted on 08/27/2011 4:35:59 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: irishtenor
The ASSUMPTION is that Paul is speaking to the Jews. How that assumption is made, I’ll never know. If you were to look just a few, only a few words above Ephesians 1:4, you would find that...GASP... Paul wrote this letter TO BELIEVERS IN EPHESUS, not to Jews. When he says “Just as he chose US”... Paul was talking to CHRISTIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the Scripture states that Paul traveled to Ephesus and there spent three months reasoning with the Jews in the synagogues (Acts 19:1-8), who would he be speaking to?

44 posted on 08/27/2011 4:39:12 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: irishtenor

“choose you this day whom you will serve, as for me and my house we will serve the Lord”


45 posted on 08/27/2011 4:43:06 PM PDT by reflecting
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To: Mr Rogers

When you follow the “mans free will” point of view, it relies on man to weigh both sides of the equation and through his superior intellect decide which team to pick. It also puts God in the position of a cheerleader saying “Pick me, Pick me” (I stand at the door and knock, knock, knock”). Kind of make Him look inept, doesn’t it. But the Bible tells me that all my works (including any choice I might make) are like filthy rags. I cant get to the Father by works (of making a choice)....Calvinism takes the spotlight off of men, and onto God.
.
Through Adam, we were all destined to hell. The fact that Jesus saved SOME doesn’t mean he destined the rest of us to hell, Adam did that. God is a loving God, but also a just God.


46 posted on 08/27/2011 4:44:26 PM PDT by BallparkBoys (RESIST WE MUCH! ....We must, and we will much, about that, be committed!)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

***Provide the Scriptures that state that God chooses who will accept Christ, and who will not. ***

Once again, you must read a little further... John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.”


47 posted on 08/27/2011 4:44:37 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: reflecting

Amen. This I believe, also.


48 posted on 08/27/2011 4:45:11 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Pardon my ignorance, but... what did Luther have to say on the subject?

TIA

49 posted on 08/27/2011 4:45:41 PM PDT by OKSooner (When someone tells you who they are, believe them.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

You are SOOOOOO funny. Jesus was speaking to JEWS because that was what was there at the time. There weren’t any CHRISTIANS yet.
Jesus NEVER spoke to CHRISTIANS, because they were not there.
What you are says, therefore, is that we do not need to read the Bible, just the parts that specifically speak to “Christians”. Nonsense. The whole Bible is for God’s followers, even the “Jewish” parts.


50 posted on 08/27/2011 4:48:46 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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