Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

My Faith: Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN), from Catholic to Muslim
CNN ^ | 9/1/11 | Chris Welch

Posted on 09/02/2011 9:07:47 AM PDT by marshmallow

Minneapolis, Minnesota (CNN) –Prior to 2006, few people even knew that then-Minnesota state legislator Keith Ellison was a Muslim. Because of his English name, he said, no one thought to ask.

But five years ago, when he ran for a seat in the United States House of Representatives - a race he would go on to win - word of his religious affiliation began to spread.

“When I started running for Congress it actually took me by surprise that so many people were fascinated with me being the first Muslim in Congress,” said Ellison, a Democrat now serving his third term in the House.

“But someone said to me, ‘Look Keith, think of a person of Japanese origin running for Congress six years after Pearl Harbor–this might be a news story.’”

Though Ellison's status as the first Muslim elected to Congress is widely known, fewer are aware that he was born into a Catholic family in Detroit and was brought up attending Catholic schools.

But he said he was never comfortable with that faith.

“I just felt it was ritual and dogma,” Ellison said. “Of course, that’s not the reality of Catholicism, but it’s the reality I lived. So I just kind of lost interest and stopped going to Mass unless I was required to.”

It wasn’t until he was a student at Wayne State University in Detroit when Ellison began, “looking for other things.”

(Excerpt) Read more at religion.blogs.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Islam; Theology
KEYWORDS: blackmuslims; islam; keithellison; muslim
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 2,451-2,5002,501-2,5502,551-2,600 ... 4,651-4,676 next last
To: metmom
As far as the fruit of the Spirit, the fruit is not what arbitrary demands someone makes about another and claims that those must be the fruit of conversion and the fruit of the Spirit. And the list of the fruit of the Spirit is found in Galatians, not Corinthians.....

Where did I say it was? That wasn't in my post at all.

If I said anything nice to you, I take it back. And I don't think pnsn is a male. I am waiting for all y'all to be open to the HS enough to let Him convict you concerning sin and righteousness and judgement.

Corinthians does, however have a lovely little sermon on love. God, as you may recall from your reading and study, IS Love.

2,501 posted on 09/10/2011 12:56:12 AM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2496 | View Replies]

To: Judith Anne
If I said anything nice to you, I take it back.

Uh, that's against the rules...You can't have it back...

2,502 posted on 09/10/2011 5:06:06 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2501 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear

Sarcasm is demeaning. This is an honest theological discussion.

Our Lord opened the gates of heaven on the cross. He did not guarantee anyone’s entrance. Entrance must be earned. God the Father is Just and this is justice.


2,503 posted on 09/10/2011 6:04:23 AM PDT by stonehouse01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2470 | View Replies]

To: metmom

Thanks for posting that Romans 4 passage. That is a powerful passage.


2,504 posted on 09/10/2011 6:47:11 AM PDT by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2494 | View Replies]

To: Judith Anne; presently no screen name
>> Come on, convert me!<<

You need to address that comment to God. It’s not we who convert. God draws people to Him as He chooses. We can only point the way.

2,505 posted on 09/10/2011 6:57:08 AM PDT by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2490 | View Replies]

To: boatbums
What proof do you have that discrete entities do no equate to different denominations? Please provide or is this your usual self serving testimony bandied about without any evidence?

Why not take a look at the current data before making comments which question your knowledge and credibility?.Oh that's right you have never seen this documentation but still divine its content. That appears normal for your type since it appears you follow the same tactic when addressing religious topics

If you had comprehended what I wrote you would have understood it is the 990 which contains the data from which one can make cogent statements. Many statisticians do so and write internal reports for the Service which are used to make informed statements. One does not need to look at the documentation but can rely on the reports of the professionals to make credible comments.

It is important to understand the need to make educated statements as to secure credibility. Your self serving uncorroborated statements only serves to diminish your credibility.

Once you have read the Pub and the attendant 990 and the internal reports you will be able to talk in an informed manner about such areas in which you have no knowledge.

One operative phrase word for you is "Empirical evidence" and the measure of your position has been taken and found bankrupt in possessing this key ingredient both in the spiritual and secular areas.

Have a firm grasp of the subject matter and do research before making comments which are making your thoughts appear foolish

Another key ingredient is humility. Unlike this current matter it would bode well for you to read and act on Lk 14:11

God Bless

2,506 posted on 09/10/2011 7:02:53 AM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2497 | View Replies]

To: stonehouse01
Our Lord opened the gates of heaven on the cross. He did not guarantee anyone’s entrance. Entrance must be earned. God the Father is Just and this is justice.
So, then, would it be fair to say, that your salvation is based upon Baptism, the sacraments, and good works? You will be judged on the amount of good works you perform and how good you were at refraining from sin?
2,507 posted on 09/10/2011 7:24:29 AM PDT by bkaycee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2503 | View Replies]

To: Jvette
Jesus spoke of the “chair of Moses” which is mentioned no where else in Scripture.

The NT includes many things that aren't in the OT, but are claimed. For instance:

Matthew 2: 23* g He went and dwelt in a town called Nazareth, so that what had been spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled, “He shall be called a Nazorean.”

There is in fact no OT quotation that says this.

As well, there are inconsistencies and numerous misquotes of OT verses. Matthew 27: 3-10 is quoted from Zechariah, but it actually comes from Jeremiah.

Even the four Gospels do not agree on some things such as what is written above the head of Jesus, or what the events were on Resurrection Sunday. Exactly none of our Bible literalists will even reply to me on such matters because there is no possible reply except to acknowledge that without the Magisterium to interpret the Bible, it cannot make sense.

As we have been instructed most thoroughly by many of our antagonists, Paul is the true source of the Gospels and Jesus and the Gospels (and the first portion of Acts) is to the Jews only. I found several websites that had that as their main theme; I found several others that had that as a basic assumption of what they considered doctrine.

Duelling verses are often on the menu du jour in talking with these folks. They consider that if Jesus says this and Paul says that which appears to be in conflict with what Jesus says, then Paul wins and we should ignore the Gospels.

2,508 posted on 09/10/2011 7:32:53 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2445 | View Replies]

To: Iscool
That's quite an out. It is a well exercised routine by each would-be Pope of his own doctrines. We come up with all manner of silliness that way, including the Rapture, Judaizing, and Harold Camping.

After coming up with the immaculate conception of Mary, that Mary dispenses all graces and salvation comes thru Mary, and that your pope is infallible, or any of the outrageous ideas your religion makes up for itself, how could you criticize any religion on the face of the earth???

You are a poster boy for the Reformation, Iscool and we thank you daily for it.

2,509 posted on 09/10/2011 7:34:07 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2446 | View Replies]

To: Iscool
The secular authorities convicted him

There were not any secular authorities...They were all Catholic...

Prove it.

2,510 posted on 09/10/2011 7:34:56 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2450 | View Replies]

To: bkaycee

Yes of course - this makes sense- it is logical - Why not?? Although it wouldn’t be “amount” of good works as an accountant might add up - it would be the true intentions of the soul/heart/intellect as choices are made throughout life.

God will judge and it will be based upon the works done in this life.


2,511 posted on 09/10/2011 7:39:45 AM PDT by stonehouse01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2507 | View Replies]

To: stonehouse01
Sarcasm is demeaning. This is an honest theological discussion.

Our Lord opened the gates of heaven on the cross. He did not guarantee anyone’s entrance. Entrance must be earned. God the Father is Just and this is justice.

Welcome to the forum. But, be warned. You now have the problem of 1 Peter 5:8, but you are not alone. All of we Christians share in this struggle.

2,512 posted on 09/10/2011 7:41:25 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2503 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear; Judith Anne
You need to address that comment to God. It’s not we who convert. God draws people to Him as He chooses. We can only point the way.

It's rude to point. Christians follow Christ. They don't point imperiously to others. Next, please.

2,513 posted on 09/10/2011 7:49:55 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2505 | View Replies]

To: Not gonna take it anymore
Mark I am posting to you because you have a clue about this.

You caused me to weep uncontrollably in front of my keyboard. Thank you.

2,514 posted on 09/10/2011 8:21:20 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2428 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear
You need to address that comment to God. It’s not we who convert. God draws people to Him as He chooses.

I DID address that comment to God. He drew me to the Catholic Church. Your argument is with Him, not me.

2,515 posted on 09/10/2011 8:21:58 AM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2505 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr

Do you mean 1 Peter 5:10 (Douay Reims) ... Jesus, after you have suffered a little will himself perfect you and confirm you and establish you ...?

Peter is saying that naturally we can’t do the works alone - He (the Lord) will help us because the devil is around to devour.

It does not mean that we are absolved of responsibilty for our own salvation.

Thanks- this is a great forum although this thread should be broken down because it has become unwieldy.


2,516 posted on 09/10/2011 8:28:15 AM PDT by stonehouse01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2512 | View Replies]

To: boatbums
"Perhaps you have someone else in mind?"

I had you and all other Protestants in mind when I made the comment. We hear daily criticism of the Magisterium and the Catholics who give credence to it from the anti-Catholics on this forum but know that they each have some homemade or dime store magisterium of their own.

It really comes down not to authority but obedience and the different interpretations of that term. Protestants maintain a self centered view of the world and see obedience as a degrading concept, like a dog responding to its masters commands and "protest" against Church authority. Catholics, on the other hand, are called to obey Church authority and happily do so because we know definition of obey is not blind subservience. Our Catechism defines it as (CCC-144) "To obey (from the Latin ob-audire, to "hear or listen to") in faith is to submit freely to the word that has been heard, because its truth is guaranteed by God, who is Truth.So every time any Protestant slams the Magisterium and insists that everything spiritual must be extracted explicitly from Scripture, while relying on cheap imitations of a magisterium in the form of sermons from the the Rev. Billy-Bob Rolex, Bible College courses, banned websites and comic books, Reformist catechisms and treatises, we see the lie.

2,517 posted on 09/10/2011 8:40:46 AM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2495 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr
>>It's rude to point. Christians follow Christ. They don't point imperiously to others.<<

Pointing the way to you means pointing at others? Seriously? Christians are only to point to Christ as the way to salvation. As in giving direction, pointing towards Him who has purchase our salvation for us.

2,518 posted on 09/10/2011 8:41:45 AM PDT by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2513 | View Replies]

To: stonehouse01
>>Our Lord opened the gates of heaven on the cross. He did not guarantee anyone’s entrance. Entrance must be earned. God the Father is Just and this is justice.<<

So are you satisfied that your works have earned your entrance into heaven?

2,519 posted on 09/10/2011 8:50:26 AM PDT by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2503 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear
Pointing the way to you means pointing at others? Seriously? Christians are only to point to Christ as the way to salvation. As in giving direction, pointing towards Him who has purchase our salvation for us.

Mary is the only one who did any effective pointing. You can say you point the way to Christ, but you don't, you point AT Catholics. That is the behavior of a bully. I don't see you GIVING anything. I see you demanding that everyone be in lock step with your views alone. And you criticize the Catholic Church!

2,520 posted on 09/10/2011 8:56:40 AM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2518 | View Replies]

To: Religion Moderator

Thank you.


2,521 posted on 09/10/2011 8:57:18 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2297 | View Replies]

To: boatbums
Nowhere do these books ever state they are God's word, unlike most of the Old Testament books. They were unequivocally rejected as canonical by the Jews.

At the hypothetical Council of Jamnia ca. 90 AD in reaction to Christianity. The Septuagint, which existed 3 or more centuries before Jamnia contained them.

If you would, consider the Magisterium as a sort of Supreme Court for issues like this. Individual bishops have their opinions, but it is the court that issues the ruling. Same thing with the Bible. Jerome was wrong in a bunch of things and so were Augustine and Aquinas, according to the Magisterium.

That is what separates us from Protestant theology. Individual opinions lead to individual theologies. Hence, the ruin of the Reformation and the rubble of the Restoration.

2,522 posted on 09/10/2011 9:09:00 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2482 | View Replies]

To: stonehouse01
1 Peter 5: 8Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for [someone] to devour.f 9Resist him, steadfast in faith, knowing that your fellow believers throughout the world undergo the same sufferings. 10The God of all grace who called you to his eternal glory through Christ [Jesus] will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you after you have suffered a little.g

Both, actually.

2,523 posted on 09/10/2011 9:12:28 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2516 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear

Of course not!! That means the New Ager atheists who do good works (in their eyes - abortion if the mother wants it is a good work to them - dreadful!)

It is Faith plus works - see Phil 2:12; Mt 10:22; Mt 24:13.

Also consider Mt 7:21; 2 Cor 11:25.

The evidence is overwhelming - Faith alone does not bring salvation - Works alone don’t either

It is both - why wouldn’t it be, logically?


2,524 posted on 09/10/2011 9:16:25 AM PDT by stonehouse01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2519 | View Replies]

To: stonehouse01; CynicalBear

Faith in what, stonehouse01?


2,525 posted on 09/10/2011 9:20:49 AM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2524 | View Replies]

To: stonehouse01

I forgot to finish the first sentence - The New Ager atheists who (think) they do good works are not saved.


2,526 posted on 09/10/2011 9:23:02 AM PDT by stonehouse01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2524 | View Replies]

To: smvoice
Nice try but on cigar. Your attempt to explain the apparent contradiction by the magisterium of one, yourself, is completely self serving

This dispensation/ rapture mumbo jumbo is the product of fertile imaginations which worship themselves not Jesus our savior.

This dispensation/rapture/ Harold Camping/Ring of Fire/188 day infatuation resembles the New Age Atheist nonsense which Jesus instructed us to root out of our lives.

2,527 posted on 09/10/2011 9:23:29 AM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2461 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear
Pointing the way to you means pointing at others? Seriously? Christians are only to point to Christ as the way to salvation. As in giving direction, pointing towards Him who has purchase our salvation for us.

If you read the posts of the antiCatholics even on this thread, Christ is not who they are pointing to. Most of the posts of the antiCatholics point to themselves. Read them with fresh eyes and see if I'm wrong.

Usual phrases. I'm saved. I'm Christian. I'm going to be Raptured. I'm His. I'm assured. My personal saviour. My walk with Christ. My personal salvation. My interpretation of Scripture. My beliefs. Mine, mine, mine. And so on.

I, I, I, me, me, me.

Read this or any other thread that contends between Catholics and Protestants. At random.

Compare and contrast between the acquiesence of Catholics to God and His Church and that of Protestants. I will leave it up to you, of course. But focus in on certain key words that highlight the difference in the approach and acceptance by the individual of Almighty God.

There are of course, certain Catholics here who are highly Protestantized, but if you read with an objective eye, I think that you will be able to pick out the differences in posting as a result of very different theologies. I would invite converts to the Faith to comment on this in order to illustrate what I am saying.

YOPIOS is not simply a mudslinging term.

2,528 posted on 09/10/2011 9:25:00 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2518 | View Replies]

To: smvoice

Faith in the Trinity - God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit


2,529 posted on 09/10/2011 9:26:46 AM PDT by stonehouse01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2525 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr

Extremely well said.


2,530 posted on 09/10/2011 9:32:02 AM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2528 | View Replies]

To: bronx2

The Bible does not contradict itself. Those who attempt to twist one dispensation into another, and become a group of people who they are not, nor ever will be, are the ones who cannot seem to come to terms with What God says, When He says it, and Why He says it. Attaching themselves like barnacles to a boat, they cling to the ship of fallible fools AKA the magisterium, and there they gather for a lifetime of feeding until the hull is rusted through and the boat sinks into a rubble of rot. And barnacles.


2,531 posted on 09/10/2011 9:39:38 AM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2527 | View Replies]

To: stonehouse01
So it is faith in the Trinity plus works that saves?

What type of faith in the Trinity? Do you mean believing in the Trinity? Because even Satan believes. Knows. So faith cannot be just believing in the Trinity. It must be another faith. A saving faith. Otherwise it seems Satan could be saved. And we all know that isn't so.

2,532 posted on 09/10/2011 9:44:06 AM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2529 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear
Your attempt at explaining this indwelling appears self serving in that anyone can assert such a claim.

If Jesus told the apostles in Mt 24 36-37 that the end time knowledge is reserved to the Father how then can you be so bold to assert that the answer is " One thousand years after the battle of Armageddon"?

Are you manufacturing scripture or are you lacking this indwelling of the Holy Spirit but have an indwelling of some other type of spirit?

So if you reject the reformers you then must rely on the Church who preserved the written words of the Savior. Is what we have here a closet Catholic?

What a startling revelation. How interesting

2,533 posted on 09/10/2011 9:46:29 AM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2462 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear
So by claiming "You must have missed the change after Christ. I’m also a Gentile" are you asserting the basic tenents of Replacement theology and that Jews can not get to heaven.

So heaven, according to your assertions, will have no Jews?

Would you feel more comfortable in in the Mel Gibson camp of thought after your previous renunciation of the reformers and replacement theology ideas?

2,534 posted on 09/10/2011 9:58:06 AM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2463 | View Replies]

To: smvoice
Your rant is hilarious in that while you reject the true Spirit led Magisterium of the Bride of Christ you replace it with the imperfect magisterium of one, yourself. Isn't that hypocrisy? Read what Jesus has to say about such hypocrisy.
2,535 posted on 09/10/2011 10:06:06 AM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2531 | View Replies]

To: Judith Anne
>>Mary is the only one who did any effective pointing.<<<

How did Mary point the way to Christ? >>I see you demanding that everyone be in lock step with your views alone.<<

I don’t demand anything. I simply illustrate what I believe scripture says. I don’t convict anyone or condemn anyone. If the scriptures I point to seem to cause you to feel “bullied” could it be because you aren’t secure in your beliefs? Never have I felt “bullied” simply because someone disagrees with me. I am totally at peace with my beliefs and free from any guilt there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

I am already “right with God” as Luke shows in Acts.

Acts 13:39 Everyone who believes in him is declared right with God—something the law of Moses could never do.

No one can cause me guilt or think to condemn me for my faith.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." [John 5:24]

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." [Rom. 8:1]

Have you been freed from the guilt of sin? Are you at peace with your faith in Christ? If you are, there is not one thing anyone can do too cause you to feel bullied, inferior, or guilty.

>>And you criticize the Catholic Church!<<

Absolutely. I will continue to speak out about false teaching

2,536 posted on 09/10/2011 10:07:58 AM PDT by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2520 | View Replies]

To: Religion Moderator

We all have a Point of View.


2,537 posted on 09/10/2011 10:11:51 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2297 | View Replies]

To: smvoice
"they cling to the ship of fallible fools AKA the magisterium"

So enlighten us as to how the homemade and dime-store magisteriums the Protestants turn to to interpret Scripture and define doctrine, such as pastors educated at the Po-dunk Theological College of Enlightenment and Air Conditioning Repair, forbidden websites, comic book publications, wikipedia, prophetic radio shows, televangelist tent and TV shows and the various catechisms and publications of the Reformation, is superior to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

2,538 posted on 09/10/2011 10:20:39 AM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2531 | View Replies]

To: smvoice

I said faith - I never mentioned belief. Faith has a different connotation than belief.

Faith has its roots in the Latin word fides - Trust is among its nuanced meanings.

Faith in the Trinity means trusting in its saving power. Is that what you meant by (a) saving faith? If so, that is what I meant, as well.


2,539 posted on 09/10/2011 10:22:24 AM PDT by stonehouse01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2532 | View Replies]

To: smvoice; bronx2
The Bible does not contradict itself.

Then why don't you tell me what is written over the head of Jesus on the Cross? Why don't you find the OT prophecy that says that Jesus will be a Nazarene?

Without the interpretation of those who wrote and commissioned the Bible, you cannot give me a credible answer. Thus, you haven't. Will you ignore it forever and cling to your mistaken message that the magisterium of one (smvoice) has the authority to ignore it and the claim that the Bible is infallible (regardless of four different descriptions) and also ignore the fact that the Magisterium is the only entity authorized to interpret the Bible infallibly?

I await your reply with bated breath.

2,540 posted on 09/10/2011 10:34:39 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2531 | View Replies]

To: Natural Law
So enlighten us as to how the homemade and dime-store magisteriums the Protestants turn to to interpret Scripture and define doctrine, such as pastors educated at the Po-dunk Theological College of Enlightenment and Air Conditioning Repair, forbidden websites, comic book publications, wikipedia, prophetic radio shows, televangelist tent and TV shows and the various catechisms and publications of the Reformation, is superior to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

In the magical world of every 3 year old, there should be no difference between what they want it to be and what it actually is. When there is a discrepancy, they either claim that there actually isn't one, or else they stamp their feet and wail loudly that life isn't faaaaaaiiiiirrrrrrrr.........

2,541 posted on 09/10/2011 10:39:13 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2538 | View Replies]

To: stonehouse01; smvoice
I said faith - I never mentioned belief. Faith has a different connotation than belief.

Very astute. And correct.

Faith has its roots in the Latin word fides - Trust is among its nuanced meanings. Faith in the Trinity means trusting in its saving power. Is that what you meant by (a) saving faith? If so, that is what I meant, as well.

A fascinating question. I look forward to the forthcoming and prompt answer.

2,542 posted on 09/10/2011 10:41:21 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2539 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr
>>Usual phrases. I'm saved. I'm Christian. I'm going to be Raptured. I'm His. I'm assured. My personal saviour. My walk with Christ. My personal salvation. My interpretation of Scripture. My beliefs. Mine, mine, mine. And so on.<<

Isn’t it wonderful what Christ has given to us!

Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. (John 14:27)

Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. (Matthew 19:11)

Jesus gives us faith (ie belief).

Matthew 9:22 Jesus turned and saw her. "Take heart, daughter," he said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was healed from that moment.

God gave us Jesus and with it everlasting life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God gave us freedom from condemnation.

John3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Even salvation is a gift from God. It is ours!

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

He then promises another gift!

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

2,543 posted on 09/10/2011 10:41:38 AM PDT by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2528 | View Replies]

To: boatbums
By your own admission "I DID go to a Bible college and worked my way through cramming four years into five and a half. And there were plenty of guiders, councilors, advisers, teachers"

Let us analyze wheat admissions have been entered. Most are proud to have crammed five and a half years of learning into four but you are to first to take pride in cramming four years of study into five and a half years. Is this some attempt to reach a level of humility demanded by Jesus in Mt 23:12?

What Bible college did you attend and what theological persuasion did they impart?

Remember 9/15 is an important date for some and might well portend the rapture. Maybe you and Harold Camping and the brain dead MTV rappers can in unity proclaim the rapture while traveling together singing the blues.

2,544 posted on 09/10/2011 10:42:38 AM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2495 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr
"In the magical world of every 3 year old, there should be no difference between what they want it to be and what it actually is."

Although they rail agains the authority of the Church, as I said in an earlier post it, really comes down not to authority but obedience and the different interpretations of that term.

Like the three-year-olds you referred to, Protestants maintain a self centered view of the world and see obedience as a degrading concept, like a dog responding to its masters commands and "protest" against Church authority.

Catholics, on the other hand, are called to obey Church authority and happily do so because we know definition of obey is not blind subservience. Our Catechism defines it as (CCC-144) "To obey (from the Latin ob-audire, to "hear or listen to") in faith is to submit freely to the word that has been heard, because its truth is guaranteed by God, who is Truth.

So every time any Protestant slams the Magisterium and insists that everything spiritual must be extracted explicitly from Scripture, while relying on cheap imitations of a magisterium in the form of sermons from the the Rev. Billy-Bob Rolex, Bible College courses, banned websites and comic books, Reformist catechisms and treatises, we see the lie.

2,545 posted on 09/10/2011 10:49:32 AM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2541 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear
Isn’t it wonderful what Christ has given to us!

It certainly is. Yet, as the father of six, I get a strange sense of deja vu every time I read Protestant post along the lines of what I am referring to. A sense of gimme. A sense of me, all me. A sense of mine, all mine. A sense of entitlement. A sense of I, I, I, me, me, me.

You know the brats as well as I - the ones who have no gratitude and simply want more and more and more and yet sneer at everyone else because they have all these things. It is all about them. Period. Infantile egocentrism is the term and I believe that it applies to many more than would accept it upon them themselves.

We Catholics acquiese to God. We submit. We are grateful and do not seek to reinvent God or the understanding of God.

That is the difference between Church theologians and armchair Protestants. Church theologians seek to better understand God. Armchair Protestants seek to invent new ways to describe God.

. I will assume that you have scanned at least a portion of some threads after this time. Have my words any validity? Is there a difference between Catholics and Protestants in attitude and in their view of God?

Is there less infantile egocentrism among Catholic posts on this or other threads? Is it less about the individual and more about God? We don't name it and claim it, you see. We acquiese to God and leave it up to Him.

2,546 posted on 09/10/2011 10:52:30 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2543 | View Replies]

To: bronx2
>>If Jesus told the apostles in Mt 24 36-37 that the end time knowledge is reserved to the Father how then can you be so bold to assert that the answer is " One thousand years after the battle of Armageddon"?<<

After the battle of Armageddon comes the thousand year reign.

Rev. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Then comes Armageddon.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Then the end of this world and the “new heaven and a new earth”.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

We then see “the book of life” you so cavalierly made sport of.

Revelation 21:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

2,547 posted on 09/10/2011 11:10:26 AM PDT by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2533 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr; smvoice
>>Without the interpretation of those who wrote and commissioned the Bible<<

Who do you think wrote the books of the New Testament?

2,548 posted on 09/10/2011 11:16:50 AM PDT by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2540 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr
>>We Catholics acquiese to God. We submit. We are grateful and do not seek to reinvent God or the understanding of God.<<

So would you finally show me where God told you about the bodily assumption of Mary that you “acquiesce” to?

2,549 posted on 09/10/2011 11:22:08 AM PDT by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2546 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr
>>We don't name it and claim it, you see.<<

I’m sorry you don’t claim the gifts of God that He clearly has said were gifts to us. Praise His name!

2,550 posted on 09/10/2011 11:23:52 AM PDT by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2546 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 2,451-2,5002,501-2,5502,551-2,600 ... 4,651-4,676 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson