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I am a humble follower of Jesus Christ. (vanity)
Self ^ | 10/03/11 | 47 Samurai

Posted on 10/03/2011 10:07:33 AM PDT by 47samurai

I am a humble follower of Jesus Christ. The Word. The Creator of Heaven and earth. The Babe, born to the Virgin , Mary over 2000 years ago.


TOPICS: Other Christian
KEYWORDS: christianity
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To: FourPeas

—Time for me to write “Preview is my friend” several hundred times.—

Naw, just write it once and then post it a hundred times. That’s what I do.


51 posted on 10/03/2011 11:58:41 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: FourPeas

—Time for me to write “Preview is my friend” several hundred times.—

Naw, just write it once and then post it a hundred times. That’s what I do.


52 posted on 10/03/2011 11:58:42 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: sr4402

Unless Penrose is the OP, my statement still stands.


53 posted on 10/03/2011 11:59:31 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: 47samurai

Define the following first

Jesus Christ - his Person, nature and work

The Word - in what way

Creator of Heaven and earth

His Grace, we can be saved (in view of mormon articles of faith)

Further clarification includes -

Are “Christians” polytheistic

Does God guide men in these latter days via false prophetical spokesmen

What specifically is salvation in mormonism?

Was God a man who evolved to godhood.

Did this man sin

We anxiously await these key clarifications


54 posted on 10/03/2011 12:01:20 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: mnehring
Ah so you deny Penrose in the Journal of Discourses. Interesting. So you would also deny him in LDS Prophet and President Charles W. Penrose, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 21, p. 84, 1880. Where he says that the Bible is wrong?
55 posted on 10/03/2011 12:13:32 PM PDT by sr4402
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To: 47samurai
I am a humble follower of J. Smith...but I MUST post vanities!!
56 posted on 10/03/2011 12:21:49 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum)
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To: sr4402

No, I said I’m not going to judge the OP based on what someone else says. Salvation is between him and God. Would you like for all mainline Christians to be judged based on Pat Robertson’s recent statements?


57 posted on 10/03/2011 12:23:46 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: 47samurai
You post for many reasons.......

You posted to tell us you are "humble".

You posted to give us "your testimony".

And apparently you posted to tell us...you and only you, are the LAST TRUE CONSERVATIVE. ROFLOL!!

One thing you have demonstrated to me is....You act like most mormon's I know.

58 posted on 10/03/2011 12:28:10 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum)
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To: 47samurai
We are all children of God, according to the bible.

With all due respect, the scriptures are clear that we are not all children of God. Only those who God has adopted into His family are children of God. The scriptures teaches that the rest are children of wrath-children who's father is the devil. And just so that Christians don't get a big head, since we must be adopted into God's family, then it follows that Christians at one time were children of wrath as well. (Eph 2). Evil exist in this world because most of the world are children of wrath and do the will of their father.

As far as "bickering and fighting" among Christians, the only reason this occurs is because it is evidence of 1) our sinful state, and 2) tares or false doctrine within the church. The first problem is indeed ourselves that fails to conform to the image of Christ. The second is where Christians alt to speak out and failure to do so is the sin of omission. And there's the paradox for a Christian; knowing when to speak and when to remain silence. But if we fail to warn a brother that, say, Mormonism is wrong, then then sin remains on our heads. If we have done so, then we just might help someone.

59 posted on 10/03/2011 12:35:31 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: sr4402

I’ll have to look that up later (after work) and reply. Thank you for responding.


60 posted on 10/03/2011 12:36:15 PM PDT by T. P. Pole
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To: 47samurai

Except: your “Jesus” is not the Jesus of Christianity, the Bible. or the Trinity. Your “Jesus” is unknown to YHWH...they are not one and the same.


61 posted on 10/03/2011 12:43:49 PM PDT by LiteKeeper ("Who is John Galt?")
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To: 47samurai

No,no no no. I am far more humble...by yards and yards and yards. Got my very own certificate of humbleness right here on my wall. $3.95 + postage I’ll send one to you.


62 posted on 10/03/2011 12:46:00 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: 47samurai
A Christian samurai. Intellesting!


63 posted on 10/03/2011 12:46:46 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Revolting cat!

Check out this link if you want to know about my nick.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty-seven_Ronin


64 posted on 10/03/2011 12:54:31 PM PDT by 47samurai (The last real conservative)
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To: Rutabega; 47samurai

“I come here less and less because of this annoyance...”

You do not have to come...coming is your choice. Posting in the ‘Religion Forum’ is a choice that has been made available to us on Free Republic. And by selecting how you come into Free Republic, you can selectively exclude posts in the Forums you do not want to see. For myself, I usually choose ‘Latest Posts’ under ‘Topics’ because I want a quick look at what is of current interest.

To bare one’s soul in a public forum such as this is a gutzy move. I dare you to try it...much better than attacking those who do.


65 posted on 10/03/2011 12:57:50 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a tea party descendant - steeped in the Constitutional legacy handed down by the Founders)
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To: HarleyD

Apparently many are willfully ignoring my point here. The point is not what I believe or don’t believe, the point is that we all have much more in common than we think and we must all work together to defeat evil and turn our country around.


66 posted on 10/03/2011 1:06:34 PM PDT by 47samurai (The last real conservative)
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To: 47samurai; HarleyD
Apparently many are willfully ignoring my point here. The point is not what I believe or don’t believe, the point is that we all have much more in common than we think and we must all work together to defeat evil and turn our country around.

You could have made that statement and left your religious beliefs completely out. Yet it was YOU that made the claim that mormonism is Christian. Apparently that is not supportable judging from your posts (or lack of them).

It is also apparent that lds central is pushing a pr campaign that mormon is Christian - to take the heat off of Romney's presidential run. So such posting is just supporting lds political goals - get a RINO elected.

67 posted on 10/03/2011 1:25:49 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: 47samurai
So you believe the now in full bloom campaign of your cult authorizes you to spread your cult's propaganda at FR? I'm an Episcopalian. Mormonism is not Christianity because your LDS inc cult holds to a different Christ than The Savior. You can post all the canned statements from LDS inc you can get away with, but the truth is not in your propaganda.

Here's an analogous situation, borrowed from Freeper William Clark, illustrating how one can have faith in 'a' Christ but not THE true Savior Christ:

"I always like to use the analogy of Jim Caviezel [In Mel Gibson's 'The Passion of The Christ']. Like the Mormon Jesus, he dressed the part, spoke the same words (in the original language, no less), and was referred to as Jesus Christ within a specific context, but it makes all the difference in the world whether one worships and depends upon him for their salvation or the genuine article."

68 posted on 10/03/2011 1:27:23 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea; Rutabega
 
“I come here less and less because of this annoyance...”
 
You do not have to come...coming is your choice. Posting in the ‘Religion Forum’ is a choice that has been made available to us on Free Republic. And by selecting how you come into Free Republic, you can selectively exclude posts in the Forums you do not want to see. For myself, I usually choose ‘Latest Posts’ under ‘Topics’ because I want a quick look at what is of current interest.
 
 
 
 
 
Actually, the OP posted this in News/Activism. Since then a moderator has moved it to Religion.
 
FWIW.


69 posted on 10/03/2011 1:35:35 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS! This means liberals AND libertarians (same thing) NO LIBS!)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea

I think you have seen that when I grumbled (wholly within my rights, as a member, I think), the post was under News, which it clearly was not. I think, too, that my grumbling was a sort of baring my soul. I see that my version of truth-telling doesn’t work for you, which is wholly within your rights. Looks like we’re even.
Just so you know, I never go trolling through the religion forums looking for an argument. To each his own. I just come here for political news, not someone’s vanity that really doesn’t have a lot to do with politics. I see so many of these, and they just get annoying after a while. I’m sure if you look around, my level of rudeness was much lower than you can find on just about any thread out there.


70 posted on 10/03/2011 2:06:23 PM PDT by Rutabega
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To: Responsibility2nd

Thanks for pointing that out for me! :) I wouldn’t have gone to a religious forum post and posted what I said.


71 posted on 10/03/2011 2:14:07 PM PDT by Rutabega
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To: 47samurai; Godzilla
...the point is that we all have much more in common than we think and we must all work together to defeat evil

WE can't defeat evil nor can we turn the country around. God's will will be done whether for our good or for our ill. We can only do the things that we are commanded of by God; 1) do justice, 2) love kindness, and 3) walk humbly with our God.

The real problem is that we have simply failed to tell people the truth of God like it is. We have scores of false religions and gods pouring into this country and yet we somehow want God to bless us. This isn't any different then the times of Jeremiah when the Jewish priests were saying that God wouldn't destroy their nation because they were, after all, the people chosen by God.

What we really need is to get our relationship with God right before we start asking Him to bless us. If we see our beloved country slipping into the throws of communism, then it is because we have strayed and He is trying to call us back through trial and persecution. I'm reminded of a song by Barry McGuire;

Don't blame God for the sins of America, America has fallin from the ways of the Lord.

72 posted on 10/03/2011 2:27:05 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: 47samurai
if you are saying, “I will never vote for so-and-so because I don’t believe in their religious doctrines,” means we will lose in 2012

I'd argue that electing a Mormon means we've lost already and, it's something that's more important than our system of government. Much, much more important.

73 posted on 10/03/2011 4:47:33 PM PDT by FourPeas ("Maladjusted and wigging out is no way to go through life, son." -hg)
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To: 47samurai
I post this ONLY for 1 reason....We MUST stop this sniping and fighting and realize we have far more in common that what separates us and we MUST work together to accomplish what we ALL want to do....and if you are saying, “I will never vote for so-and-so because I don’t believe in their religious doctrines,” means we will lose in 2012. Lets pull together.

That may be what you say now, but it's not what you posted when you began the thread.

Apparently many are willfully ignoring my point here.

No. Some are responding to your initial post. That simply means they're taking you literally (you didn't want us to take you literally?). And others are trying to save your soul ...

which, when all is said and done, is more important than winning any election.

74 posted on 10/03/2011 4:54:31 PM PDT by Tea Party Hobbit (The RINOs lack all conviction, and the Dems are full of passionate intensity)
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To: 47samurai
I believe in Jesus Christ, I have accepted him as my Savior .... and I'm a Mormon. (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints)

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

75 posted on 10/03/2011 5:30:29 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2703506/posts?page=518#518)
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To: cuban leaf

LOL!


76 posted on 10/03/2011 6:05:24 PM PDT by FourPeas ("Maladjusted and wigging out is no way to go through life, son." -hg)
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To: 47samurai

RRRIIIGGGGHHHHTTT! Now we understand the reason for the post. Mitt Romney will not lose the nomination for president of the U.S. because he believes he will be a god of his own universe after this life is over, he will be rejected because he is a Republican In Name Only (RINO). The Conservatives that make up the bulk of this Conservative site will not be fooled by “make nice talk”.


77 posted on 10/03/2011 6:10:42 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: 47samurai

We have political views in common, but Mormons and Christians don’t share the same spiritual views. In fact, Mormonism and Christianity are diametrically opposed to each other.

Christians will never spiritually unite with Mormons, so you might as well get used to it. Working together to reach political goals is worthy, but politics is worthless compared to the value of a human soul.

Therefore, the greater good is pointing people to the saving knowledge of the Biblical Jesus Christ and exposing the false teachings of Mormonism. Evil is not just Islam and the secularization of the American culture, but it’s any falsehood against The Truth (Jesus Christ).


78 posted on 10/03/2011 6:55:00 PM PDT by Turtlepower
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To: 47samurai

We have political views in common, but Mormons and Christians don’t share the same spiritual views. In fact, Mormonism and Christianity are diametrically opposed to each other.

Christians will never spiritually unite with Mormons, so you might as well get used to it. Working together to reach political goals is worthy, but politics is worthless compared to the value of a human soul.

Therefore, the greater good is pointing people to the saving knowledge of the Biblical Jesus Christ and exposing the false teachings of Mormonism. Evil is not just Islam and the secularization of the American culture, but it’s any falsehood against The Truth (Jesus Christ).


79 posted on 10/03/2011 6:55:22 PM PDT by Turtlepower
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To: sr4402
Regarding LDS Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, pp. 114 - 115, 1863.

This is a good example of taking a quote out of context.

John Taylor is talking about the sacrament (of the Lord's supper). He says (and yes, I cut out parts - it is a rather long sermon):

Faith in this ordinance would necessarily imply that we have faith in Jesus Christ, that he is the only begotten of the Father, that he came from the heavens to the earth to accomplish a certain purpose which God had designed − even to secure the salvation and exaltation of the human family. . . The death of Jesus Christ would not have taken place had it not been necessary. That this ceremony should be instituted to keep that circumstance before the minds of his people, bespeaks its importance as embracing certain unexplained purposes and mysterious designs of God;. . . It is not fully comprehended why it was necessary that Jesus Christ should leave the heavens, his Father's abode and presence, and come upon the earth to offer himself up a sacrifice; . . . why it was necessary that his blood should be shed is an apparent mystery. It is true that we are told that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. . . Jesus Christ is spoken of in the Scriptures as "The Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world." What sins of the world did he take away? We are told that it is the sin which Adam committed.

This is an admittedly interesting comment. Especially since John Taylor was not a fan of Calvin and the idea of "total depravity." His background pre-LDS was as a Methodist preacher. As I have observed many times before, such language out of a non-Mormon mouth would not be questioned in such a manner, but would be understood to be referring to the fallen state of mankind and that sin entered the world through Adam. "For since by man came death" and thus a need for a redeemer. I suspect that a similar conversation could be had on Calvinism thread without angst.

More from this sermon:

There must be some reason why he was allowed to suffer and to endure; why it was necessary that he should give up his life a sacrifice for the sins of the world. . . It behoves us to be made well aware which call we belong to, that if we are not already among the redeemed we may immediately join that society, that when the Son of God shall come the second time. . . we shall be among that number who shall be ready to meet him with gladness in our hearts and hail him as our great deliverer. . .

[I]t is necessary we should know . . . something about our interests in that redemption wrought out for us through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, whose death and sufferings we are now commemorating [with the sacrament].

Hence we are told, "This is the stone which was set at naught by you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved,"

Things take place that we cannot always reconcile to our judgment. I do not know why Jesus should leave his Father's throne and be offered up a sacrifice for the sin of the world, and why mankind have to be put through such an ordeal as they have to pass through on this earth; we reason upon this, and the Scriptures say that it is because man cannot be made perfect only through suffering. We might ask why could not mankind be saved in another way? Why could not salvation be wrought out without suffering? I receive it in my faith that this is the only way, and I rejoice that we have a Savior who had the goodness to come forth and redeem us, and I rejoice that we have a Savior who yet looks forward to the redemption of the world. . . God will bring order out of all the confusion that existed, measure out mercy to all Adam's posterity and give to all a fair opportunity of being saved. . .we discover that God has extended mercy so far as he possibly could to the veriest wretch that ever crawled on the earth, and has brought forth and redeemed all the human family. . .

"a sacrifice for the sins of the world"
"[we are] among the redeemed"
"redemption wrought out for us through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ"
"a sacrifice for the sin of the world"
"man cannot be made perfect only through suffering"
"why could not mankind be saved in another way?"
"we have a Savior who had the goodness to come forth and redeem us"
"brought forth and redeemed all the human family"

All that, yet that sticky quote about "the sin that Adam committed."

I think the rest of the sermon makes it clear that John Taylor understood that Christ's sacrifice was was for all mankind, and not just for Adam. It would appear that his reference to "the sin that Adam committed" was reference to man's fallen nature.

I need to thank you for the fun research project. I usually don't get to spend a lot of time researching the obscure sermons of our early church leaders. It is interesting to see how some of the common phrases have evolved, and yet still see early start of other phrases that we still use today. For example, the "fair opportunity" is commonly used today (usually phrased as a "fair first chance" to accept the gospel).

Just in case you follow up with Penrose's discussion of original sin, keep in mind that Mormons talk about two kinds of separation from God - physical and spiritual. Through Adam we have both physical and spiritual death, and the atonement of Christ covers both. Physical death through the resurrection, and spiritual death through the taking upon Himself our sins. We believe that the resurrection is a "free gift" given to all mankind (that every one will be resurrected) but that redemption from sin requires actions (what we call ordinances - like baptism). When Penrose says we have nothing to do with the work of atonement for the sin of Adam, he is talking about resurrection, and when he talks about action required to gain redemption from our own sins, he is talking about faith, repentance, baptism, etc.

I understand that you (the general "you") don't feel that way or agree with that doctrine, but it is what the LDS teach.

80 posted on 10/03/2011 7:02:24 PM PDT by T. P. Pole
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To: T. P. Pole
How do Mormons reconcile the belief that obedience to ordinances is required for redemption; with Biblical verses like Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:20, 28, Galatians 2:16?

Also, would a Mormon ever know if they have been obedient enough to be fully redeemed or do they have to wait until they die to see God's judgement?

81 posted on 10/03/2011 7:13:55 PM PDT by Turtlepower
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To: 47samurai
Jesus Good.

Smith bad.

82 posted on 10/03/2011 7:16:22 PM PDT by Manic_Episode (Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps...)
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To: 47samurai
“I will never vote for so-and-so because I don’t believe in their religious doctrines,” means we will lose in 2012.

well to be honest, this is not a problem for 2012 -- I despise Romney but because he's a RINO. he's just coincidentally a Mormon. If it was a real conservative who was a Mormon, I wouldn't be so sure, but against Romney it's easy -- he could be any religion and I'd still despise him.

83 posted on 10/03/2011 11:55:27 PM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: Rutabega

Hilarious. Perhaps you should take your concern about the Religion Forum to the owner of this site.

If JimRob did not want the Religion Forum to exist, it would not exist.

You are preaching to wrong choir.


84 posted on 10/04/2011 7:42:02 AM PDT by dmz
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To: T. P. Pole
but that redemption from sin requires actions

Yes, that is where we differ. Christians believe Christ has done everything required to pay for the sins of folks like us. He paid it "one time" on the cross as it says in Hebrews. Therefore we believe there is NO ACTION we can do as He has done it all.

James says that good works will follow the believer as a result of his faith. But this does not earn his salvation nor does it do anything but earn rewards in heaven.

TP, "redemption from sin requires actions" is Salvation by Works and not depending on Christ's work on the Cross ALONE. IT IS NOT PUTTING FAITH UPON CHRIST BUT UPON ONES OWN WORKS.

Think of it like this, You are before God, pleading "I did this and this and this and this" and He says "filty rags".

But think about this "Christ paid it all, He did it with His own blood, He did everything for me when I could do nothing for myself". He worked His good works through me by your Holy Spirit and I only want to throw the crown He gave me at His feet".

Which will please God, your works and attempts to expiate your own sin or Faith in Him and Him Alone that pleases God?Who gets the Glory, you or God?

And just so you know, I believe "God (the Father) is Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth" just as the Lord Jesus Christ said. That God the Father was never a man.

I believe the Holy Spirit was never a man, and like God is Spirit. That the Holy Spirit, not a man, caused the Virgin Mary to conceive. And it COULD NOT BE BY MAN so that no SIN COULD BE ATTRIBUTED NOR INHERITED FROM MANKIND.

You see, that God in the Bible, is more powerful than mere man and the thought that God is a man who impregnated Mary. Isaiah (55) says it well of God "My thoughts are higher than your thoughts, and My Ways are Higher than your Ways". So the Lord Jesus was begotten not by the Flesh of mere men, but begotten the Second Adam - like the first - but this time BEING GOD.

85 posted on 10/04/2011 9:38:02 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: dmz

Again, when I ranted, the post was under News, and was later moved to Religion. The reason there is a seperate Religion forum is because it is not always news, and this post absolutely wasn’t “news.”


86 posted on 10/04/2011 11:10:08 AM PDT by Rutabega
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To: Rutabega

Sorry. I’m throwing the flag on myself for piling on. Although it is a bit surprising you clicked on the thread given its title.


87 posted on 10/04/2011 12:00:17 PM PDT by dmz
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To: dmz

I appreciate your courtesy. :)
Truly, I only wrote that because scrolling through the news feed, every other post seemed attached to that thread, and I was aggravated because I was using my smartphone, and it is somewhat slow to load, and I just wanted to read something else. I am a SAHM with two little ones (and two big ones) and don’t have lots of time to read news, and it just drove me nuts, and I reacted. I almost never argue with anyone online, and in hindsight, wouldn’t have done it this time, either.


88 posted on 10/04/2011 1:35:50 PM PDT by Rutabega
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