Posted on 10/03/2011 10:07:33 AM PDT by 47samurai
I am a humble follower of Jesus Christ. The Word. The Creator of Heaven and earth. The Babe, born to the Virgin , Mary over 2000 years ago.
Except: your “Jesus” is not the Jesus of Christianity, the Bible. or the Trinity. Your “Jesus” is unknown to YHWH...they are not one and the same.
No,no no no. I am far more humble...by yards and yards and yards. Got my very own certificate of humbleness right here on my wall. $3.95 + postage I’ll send one to you.
Check out this link if you want to know about my nick.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty-seven_Ronin
“I come here less and less because of this annoyance...”
You do not have to come...coming is your choice. Posting in the ‘Religion Forum’ is a choice that has been made available to us on Free Republic. And by selecting how you come into Free Republic, you can selectively exclude posts in the Forums you do not want to see. For myself, I usually choose ‘Latest Posts’ under ‘Topics’ because I want a quick look at what is of current interest.
To bare one’s soul in a public forum such as this is a gutzy move. I dare you to try it...much better than attacking those who do.
Apparently many are willfully ignoring my point here. The point is not what I believe or don’t believe, the point is that we all have much more in common than we think and we must all work together to defeat evil and turn our country around.
You could have made that statement and left your religious beliefs completely out. Yet it was YOU that made the claim that mormonism is Christian. Apparently that is not supportable judging from your posts (or lack of them).
It is also apparent that lds central is pushing a pr campaign that mormon is Christian - to take the heat off of Romney's presidential run. So such posting is just supporting lds political goals - get a RINO elected.
Here's an analogous situation, borrowed from Freeper William Clark, illustrating how one can have faith in 'a' Christ but not THE true Savior Christ:
"I always like to use the analogy of Jim Caviezel [In Mel Gibson's 'The Passion of The Christ']. Like the Mormon Jesus, he dressed the part, spoke the same words (in the original language, no less), and was referred to as Jesus Christ within a specific context, but it makes all the difference in the world whether one worships and depends upon him for their salvation or the genuine article."
I think you have seen that when I grumbled (wholly within my rights, as a member, I think), the post was under News, which it clearly was not. I think, too, that my grumbling was a sort of baring my soul. I see that my version of truth-telling doesn’t work for you, which is wholly within your rights. Looks like we’re even.
Just so you know, I never go trolling through the religion forums looking for an argument. To each his own. I just come here for political news, not someone’s vanity that really doesn’t have a lot to do with politics. I see so many of these, and they just get annoying after a while. I’m sure if you look around, my level of rudeness was much lower than you can find on just about any thread out there.
Thanks for pointing that out for me! :) I wouldn’t have gone to a religious forum post and posted what I said.
WE can't defeat evil nor can we turn the country around. God's will will be done whether for our good or for our ill. We can only do the things that we are commanded of by God; 1) do justice, 2) love kindness, and 3) walk humbly with our God.
The real problem is that we have simply failed to tell people the truth of God like it is. We have scores of false religions and gods pouring into this country and yet we somehow want God to bless us. This isn't any different then the times of Jeremiah when the Jewish priests were saying that God wouldn't destroy their nation because they were, after all, the people chosen by God.
What we really need is to get our relationship with God right before we start asking Him to bless us. If we see our beloved country slipping into the throws of communism, then it is because we have strayed and He is trying to call us back through trial and persecution. I'm reminded of a song by Barry McGuire;
Don't blame God for the sins of America, America has fallin from the ways of the Lord.
I'd argue that electing a Mormon means we've lost already and, it's something that's more important than our system of government. Much, much more important.
That may be what you say now, but it's not what you posted when you began the thread.
Apparently many are willfully ignoring my point here.
No. Some are responding to your initial post. That simply means they're taking you literally (you didn't want us to take you literally?). And others are trying to save your soul ...
which, when all is said and done, is more important than winning any election.
Surprise, surprise, surprise.
LOL!
RRRIIIGGGGHHHHTTT! Now we understand the reason for the post. Mitt Romney will not lose the nomination for president of the U.S. because he believes he will be a god of his own universe after this life is over, he will be rejected because he is a Republican In Name Only (RINO). The Conservatives that make up the bulk of this Conservative site will not be fooled by “make nice talk”.
We have political views in common, but Mormons and Christians don’t share the same spiritual views. In fact, Mormonism and Christianity are diametrically opposed to each other.
Christians will never spiritually unite with Mormons, so you might as well get used to it. Working together to reach political goals is worthy, but politics is worthless compared to the value of a human soul.
Therefore, the greater good is pointing people to the saving knowledge of the Biblical Jesus Christ and exposing the false teachings of Mormonism. Evil is not just Islam and the secularization of the American culture, but it’s any falsehood against The Truth (Jesus Christ).
We have political views in common, but Mormons and Christians don’t share the same spiritual views. In fact, Mormonism and Christianity are diametrically opposed to each other.
Christians will never spiritually unite with Mormons, so you might as well get used to it. Working together to reach political goals is worthy, but politics is worthless compared to the value of a human soul.
Therefore, the greater good is pointing people to the saving knowledge of the Biblical Jesus Christ and exposing the false teachings of Mormonism. Evil is not just Islam and the secularization of the American culture, but it’s any falsehood against The Truth (Jesus Christ).
This is a good example of taking a quote out of context.
John Taylor is talking about the sacrament (of the Lord's supper). He says (and yes, I cut out parts - it is a rather long sermon):
Faith in this ordinance would necessarily imply that we have faith in Jesus Christ, that he is the only begotten of the Father, that he came from the heavens to the earth to accomplish a certain purpose which God had designed − even to secure the salvation and exaltation of the human family. . . The death of Jesus Christ would not have taken place had it not been necessary. That this ceremony should be instituted to keep that circumstance before the minds of his people, bespeaks its importance as embracing certain unexplained purposes and mysterious designs of God;. . . It is not fully comprehended why it was necessary that Jesus Christ should leave the heavens, his Father's abode and presence, and come upon the earth to offer himself up a sacrifice; . . . why it was necessary that his blood should be shed is an apparent mystery. It is true that we are told that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. . . Jesus Christ is spoken of in the Scriptures as "The Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world." What sins of the world did he take away? We are told that it is the sin which Adam committed.
This is an admittedly interesting comment. Especially since John Taylor was not a fan of Calvin and the idea of "total depravity." His background pre-LDS was as a Methodist preacher. As I have observed many times before, such language out of a non-Mormon mouth would not be questioned in such a manner, but would be understood to be referring to the fallen state of mankind and that sin entered the world through Adam. "For since by man came death" and thus a need for a redeemer. I suspect that a similar conversation could be had on Calvinism thread without angst.
More from this sermon:
There must be some reason why he was allowed to suffer and to endure; why it was necessary that he should give up his life a sacrifice for the sins of the world. . . It behoves us to be made well aware which call we belong to, that if we are not already among the redeemed we may immediately join that society, that when the Son of God shall come the second time. . . we shall be among that number who shall be ready to meet him with gladness in our hearts and hail him as our great deliverer. . .
[I]t is necessary we should know . . . something about our interests in that redemption wrought out for us through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, whose death and sufferings we are now commemorating [with the sacrament].
Hence we are told, "This is the stone which was set at naught by you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved,"
Things take place that we cannot always reconcile to our judgment. I do not know why Jesus should leave his Father's throne and be offered up a sacrifice for the sin of the world, and why mankind have to be put through such an ordeal as they have to pass through on this earth; we reason upon this, and the Scriptures say that it is because man cannot be made perfect only through suffering. We might ask why could not mankind be saved in another way? Why could not salvation be wrought out without suffering? I receive it in my faith that this is the only way, and I rejoice that we have a Savior who had the goodness to come forth and redeem us, and I rejoice that we have a Savior who yet looks forward to the redemption of the world. . . God will bring order out of all the confusion that existed, measure out mercy to all Adam's posterity and give to all a fair opportunity of being saved. . .we discover that God has extended mercy so far as he possibly could to the veriest wretch that ever crawled on the earth, and has brought forth and redeemed all the human family. . .
"a sacrifice for the sins of the world"
"[we are] among the redeemed"
"redemption wrought out for us through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ"
"a sacrifice for the sin of the world"
"man cannot be made perfect only through suffering"
"why could not mankind be saved in another way?"
"we have a Savior who had the goodness to come forth and redeem us"
"brought forth and redeemed all the human family"
All that, yet that sticky quote about "the sin that Adam committed."
I think the rest of the sermon makes it clear that John Taylor understood that Christ's sacrifice was was for all mankind, and not just for Adam. It would appear that his reference to "the sin that Adam committed" was reference to man's fallen nature.
I need to thank you for the fun research project. I usually don't get to spend a lot of time researching the obscure sermons of our early church leaders. It is interesting to see how some of the common phrases have evolved, and yet still see early start of other phrases that we still use today. For example, the "fair opportunity" is commonly used today (usually phrased as a "fair first chance" to accept the gospel).
Just in case you follow up with Penrose's discussion of original sin, keep in mind that Mormons talk about two kinds of separation from God - physical and spiritual. Through Adam we have both physical and spiritual death, and the atonement of Christ covers both. Physical death through the resurrection, and spiritual death through the taking upon Himself our sins. We believe that the resurrection is a "free gift" given to all mankind (that every one will be resurrected) but that redemption from sin requires actions (what we call ordinances - like baptism). When Penrose says we have nothing to do with the work of atonement for the sin of Adam, he is talking about resurrection, and when he talks about action required to gain redemption from our own sins, he is talking about faith, repentance, baptism, etc.
I understand that you (the general "you") don't feel that way or agree with that doctrine, but it is what the LDS teach.
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