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Mormon Hypocrisy
13 October 2011 | Gamecock

Posted on 10/13/2011 5:52:58 PM PDT by Gamecock

I subscribe to a Mormon apologetic Newsletter titled FAIR (Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research).

Normally it falls into my junk email account and I don't even open it, but today I had a few minutes and scanned the latest offering and was stunned to see the hypocrisy of the authors. Please note the entire email is posted below.

This particular issue has a great deal of whining about those mean Christians who make the spurious claim that Mormons are not Christians, but are a cult.

A couple of examples:

-"Mormons are a cult" epithets into the national spotlight. In his "On Faith" commentary this week, Church Public Affairs managing director Michael Otterson suggests why people make such claims and shares his own experience of being labeled not Christian.

Calling Mormonism a cult is old hat, and the voters are yawning.

-Texas Gov. Rick Perry's minister ally Robert Jeffress might think Mitt Romney's church is a cult, but a new documentary on the presidency and Mormonism suggests that Romney could snag the nation's top job despite the religious feud between Christians.

-....the "cult" of Mormonism means that you raise a solid family, work hard, make money and do good for the greater community of mankind, then by all means pass the Kool-Aid.

-It seems just too petty and small for a country as big as America to have. America, as a melting pot of many cultures and many beliefs, is supposed to be more tolerant of differences.

-Another woman in Texas remembers that her LDS congregation was banned from participating in a community-wide Christmas event and that non-Church members once barged into Sunday meetings shouting that Mormons were cult members and devil worshippers.

The reader will note, when comparing the above quotes with the below article, that the quotes originate from the MSM. Why would the MSM, a known enemy of Christianity, care if Christians consider Mormons a cult or not? I suggest that these quotes are really more of an attack on Christianity than some deep concern for Mormons. Notice how when Mormons talk family values the press fawns over them. When Christians do the same we are are intolerant of other lifestyles.

That being said, consider the above quotes. Christians who deny Mormons mainstream status are bigoted, intolerant, etc. But ask your self this: are Mormons not intolerant when they make the following claim: that Joseph Smith unearthed a book of golden plates from a New York hillside in 1827 with the help of an angel and translated hieroglyphics that detailed the true Christian faith.

So Mormons don't want to be Christians, but rather the "true Christian faith." Isn't that just a bit intolerant?

I suspect what is really going on here is that in reality the MSM sees Romney as a palatable Republican. They don't really care about Mormons, but are afraid of Cain and Perry.

Take a few minutes and scan the below and see what other nuggets jump out at you. There are more than a couple.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Other Christian; Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: antiamericanism; antimormonflamebait; antimormonjihad; brighamyoung; cult; flamebait; hemanmormonhaters; hypocrisy; josephsmith; lds; mormoaner; mormon; mormonhypocrisy; mormonism; mormons; religiousbigotry; religioushatespeech; religioushatred; religiousintolerance; whining; whiningcult; zealotry
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To: dragonblustar

I’d like to know how many archeologists that are Mormon.

http://www.bookofmormontours.com/


101 posted on 10/14/2011 4:13:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
The fact that the LDS leadership (most if not all) is aware of the problems in their history, teachings, and doctrines and the evidence against it, yet rather than adress those issues or admit problems, they whitewash, cover up and flat out lie to the membership makes it lies, not just ‘research’.

From the Desk of TM:

Attention FreeRepublic Anti-ANTI Team:


An error occured in the last memo, as it was supposed to read:

...call them nasties...

not...

...call them NAZIs...

Hopefully no problems occured this weekend because of a Headquarter's foul up.

Keep up the good work on FR. We've been getting HUNDREDS of hitS on our websites by those evidently seeking the truth.


Watch next month's ENSIGN for the new membership figures; due, no doubt, to the tireless work by you faithful typists!

Sincerely (continue using THAT word),

Thomas Monson,
Business Executive


102 posted on 10/14/2011 4:14:33 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: cruise_missile
If Romney gets the nomination it will be the first time we have a guy running that thinks he is going to be a God versus one that already thinks he is one.

EXCELLENT tagline!

103 posted on 10/14/2011 4:15:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
And the LDS are aware they have different terms, yet word things specifically to deceive Christians.

Here is an alphabetical list of some of the more important terms and their meanings to a Mormon:

AARONIC PRIESTHOOD: This is called the lesser priesthood, and is usually held by young men starting at the age of 12 to the age of about 18. It is also held for a short time by men who have just become members.

AFTERLIFE: The Mormon afterlife is divided up into four levels. From the lowest to the highest they are: hell, and then three levels of heaven: the telestial, the terrestrial, and the place where God dwells, the celestial (also called the kingdom of God). The celestial is also divided, the highest level being "exaltation," or becoming a God.

APOSTLES: The Mormon Church claims to have the same organization as the primitive church that Jesus set up. They also have twelve apostles and sometimes use this as a proof of their divine appointment as the one true church. But they actually have fifteen or more most of the time. The general practice has been for a new president, who is also an apostle, to appoint counselors from the Quorum of the Twelve; then the openings left by the president and his counselors are filled, resulting in a total of fifteen.

ELESTIAL KINGDOM: See Heaven.

ELOHIM: The name of God the Father.

EXALTATION: This is becoming a God in the highest level of the celestial kingdom.

ETERNAL PROGRESSION: The teaching that each of us has the potential to become a God just like God the Father did. He was once a man capable of physical death, was resurrected and progressed to become a God. We can take a similar path and get all the power, glory, dominion, and knowledge the Father and Jesus Christ has. We then will be able to procreate spirit children who will worship us as we do God the Father.

GOD: Usually means God the Father. He was once a man like us capable of physical death and he progressed until he became a God. He has a body of flesh and bones, but no blood. Within Mormonism, Gods, angels, people and devils all have the same nature or substance but are at different stages along the line of progression to Godhood.

GRACE - The Mormon concept of grace means making oneself worthy of the grace of God by doing good works in the church, temple, and community.

HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

HELL: A place of torment from which the worst of sinners are resurrected (if they repent) into the Telestial kingdom; only a limited number remain in hell forever, - the devil and the demons and apostates who consciously reject and work against Mormonism.

HOLY GHOST: The third member of the Godhead, a personage of spirit, unlike the Father and Son who have bodies of flesh and bones.

JEHOVAH: The pre-incarnate name for Jesus Christ.

JESUS CHRIST: The spirit of Jesus Christ was the first spirit born to God the Father and his wife (Heavenly Mother). He progressed to become a God under the Father. (The Father is also the literal father of Jesus' body in the exact same way we were begotten by our earthly parents.) He now has a body of flesh and bones, but no blood. He is the spirit brother of Satan whose spirit was procreated in the same way as Jesus'. To Mormons, even the atonement of his shed blood is not enough to provide forgiveness of sin and bring eternal life. Stripped of his Deity and demoted to a partial Savior, the Jesus of Mormonism has been robbed of his power and authority. Not only is the Mormon Jesus one who had struggled to achieve his own salvation, he also failed to establish his church. Both in Jerusalem and in the America's where Jesus was supposed to have visited, he attempted to build a group of followers. But in each case, truth was overcome by the alleged early church apostasy into false teaching.

MARRIAGE: The Mormon Church teaches two types of marriage. One ends at death. The other is for "time and eternity." If the couple is married in a Mormon temple by someone with authority it is believed they will stay married in the next life. This kind of marriage is needed if they are to progress, not only as husband and wife, but as God and Goddess.

MELCHIZEDEK PRIESTHOOD: The higher of two categories of ministry in the LDS Church, assigned primarily to seasoned members over the age of 18, males only.

POLYGAMY: The practice of men having more than one wife was started by Joseph Smith in the early/mid 1830's and ostensibly ended in 1890. It is not now sanctioned by the LDS church headquartered in Salt Lake City. Members found practicing it are excommunicated. While the practice was ended, the revelation teaching it is still in Mormon scripture (Doctrine & Covenants 132). Some Mormon splinter groups believe the teaching was for eternity and still practice it. These modern-day polygamists (called fundamentalists) number in the 30,000-50,000 range.

PRE-EXISTENCE: The Mormon teaching that our spirits (Mormons and non-Mormons) were procreated in a premortal life by God the Father and our Mother in Heaven, that our spirits were born and raised to maturity before coming to earth to obtain physical bodies, and that the spirit of Jesus Christ was the first one born to our Heavenly parents.

PRIESTHOOD: A category of ministry in the LDS Church open to all worthy males 12 years of age or older, empowering them to act in God's name. Non-Mormons cannot hold the priesthood, hence they have no authority. Men of African descent have only recently (by special correction of the original revelations) been allowed to hold these offices.

PROPHET: The top leader of the Mormon Church is considered not only a prophet but is also a seer and revelator. He has the title "president." He is the only one who can speak for the whole church and receive new revelation for the whole church. When the current prophet dies, the most senior (time as an apostle, not age) of the twelve apostles, the president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, becomes the new president. He can appoint counselors, who receive their authority from him.

SALVATION: A word that Mormons qualify in one of three ways: unconditional or general salvation is simply resurrection from the dead, granted to all through Christ's atonement; conditional or individual salvation involves entering the celestial kingdom through works of Mormonism; full salvation means exaltation to become a God as a result of temple ceremonies and other works. The word 'salvation' can have a two-fold meaning: a) forgiveness of sins and b) universal resurrection:

The Mormons have several different levels of "salvation".

SATAN: One of the spirit children of God. As a consequence of their rebellion Satan and his angels cannot have mortal bodies - hence cannot progress.

SCRIPTURES: The Mormon Church has four documents it calls canonized scriptures: the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and the King James Version of the Holy Bible.

SON OF GOD: Along with Jesus Christ, all of us are viewed as the children of God, his literal spirit children. This makes us all - Mormons, non-Mormons, Jesus Christ and Satan - spirit brothers.

SPIRITS: Nonmaterial beings allegedly procreated in the pre-existence by God the Father and his wife. Jesus Christ, and even we ourselves, were supposedly born and raised to maturity as spirits before coming into bodies on this earth. The spirit of Satan was also procreated in this way. This makes Satan and Jesus Christ spirit brothers. Jesus selected a righteous path; Satan selected the opposite.

STANDARD WORKS: The four canonized scriptures (see Scripture above) used by the Mormon Church are called the Standard Works.

TEMPLE: One of about four dozen special (for LDS) buildings around the world in which sacred (to LDS) ceremonies are performed for the living and the dead; off limits to nonmembers and even to Mormons who lack a "temple recommend" from their leaders. Only about 20% of the Mormons qualify to go.

TRINITY: This word is used by Christians to summarize the Biblical teaching that within the one true God is three persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. They share the same nature or substance so that there are not three Gods, but three persons in the one God. Mormons say they also believe in the Trinitarian concept of God. But really what they mean are that God the Father is a God, God the Son is another God, and God the Holy Ghost is a third God and they are "one God" because they are "one in purpose." Mormons often have an incorrect understanding of what Christians mean by the "Trinity." They say Christians believe that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one person (i.e., Monophysiteism) or that God shows himself as the Father or the Son or the Holy Ghost (i.e. Modalism).

VIRGIN BIRTH: A concept negated by the view that God, a resurrected man with flesh and bones according to Mormon teachings, literally fathered Jesus in the flesh in the same way in which earthly men father their children. Despite the documented position of previous Mormon prophets, presidents, and apostles about the nature of Christ's conception, modern LDS apologists maintain that "Christ was born of a virgin". How can they? By changing the definition of the word "virgin". The reasoning goes like this: since Mary had sexual relations with an immortal man, not a mortal man, the phrase "virgin birth" still applies.

WORD OF WISDOM: The name for the Mormon Church's teaching requiring abstinence from tobacco, alcohol, and hot drinks (tea and coffee).



104 posted on 10/14/2011 4:17:09 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: JustTheTruth
I think that you may be missing the larger point that the more exposure this debate gives to people about the LDS church, whether critical commentary or not, will inevitably lead to more LDS church investigators and an accelerated growth rate for the church. Increased opposition leads to faster growth

I guess the WISE thing to do would be to IGNORE all of MORMONism's false claims and it will wither away.

105 posted on 10/14/2011 4:18:49 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
...until I learned otherwise...
106 posted on 10/14/2011 4:20:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: brent13a
LDS relies heavily on ignorance...
107 posted on 10/14/2011 4:21:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: brent13a
LDS relies heavily on ignorance...

...and that's why we are on FR every day; tirelessly (well...) posting the Teachings, Writings and History of MORMONism.

(The big bunch of them anyway; out in SLC. How could ANYONE keep up with the REST of them??)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sects_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement

108 posted on 10/14/2011 4:23:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
I reluctantly voted for McCain (rather than against Obama) because he is a war hero,

I don't think we have any running this time; but Willard served a mission in France; does THAT count?

109 posted on 10/14/2011 4:25:33 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: cherry
Catholics have been persecuted, banned,treated like non citizens, and it happens to this day....

That's why Catholics are such GOOD prospects: it feels like HOME!

110 posted on 10/14/2011 4:28:01 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
If Romney is the Republican candidate and I decide to vote against him it will either be because I find him to be too liberal to solve our economic problems, or because living in California I can make a strategic vote for the Green Party candidate in hopes they will receive 5% of the national vote and become a thorn in the side of the Democrats.

OH?

I voted for Perot becuase the 'pubs were leaving me.

That worked out particularly well...

111 posted on 10/14/2011 4:30:23 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
But after all, if he is one day going to rule an entire planet, don't you think we should give him the chance to rule over one country, just to give him a little experience?

I like how you think!

112 posted on 10/14/2011 4:31:23 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

If anything the Mormons were akin to Christians like Joel Osteen: always emphasizing the positive and not spending much time on scripture or the downsides of not living a Christian life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing


113 posted on 10/14/2011 4:34:33 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
If anything the Mormons were akin to Christians like Joel Osteen: always emphasizing the positive and not spending much time on scripture or the downsides of not living a Christian life.

...did god REALLY say...

114 posted on 10/14/2011 4:35:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
Especially when all the smiles and hugs and directed Bible studies ultimately led to Tony Alamo tracts and YEC drivel.

I see you've experienced some LB yourself!

115 posted on 10/14/2011 4:36:49 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Hammer Tym
... don’t call yourself something you’re not.

AMEN!

116 posted on 10/14/2011 4:37:34 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Zakeet
The Mormon Church's past is indeed racist. From its scripture, to its doctrine, to teachings by top leadership, to its overt treatment of Blacks and American Indians – it is easy find hundreds of examples of overt racism – like the above quote from one of Mormonism’s most sacred books.

NO!!! It CAN'T be TRUE!





"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.



Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'



August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)



1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."



We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.



Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).



When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."



When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)





Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

 

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

 

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

 



 

117 posted on 10/14/2011 4:41:02 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
Whoever we choose will be dumped on. Mitt will be damaged more by Romneycare than Mormonism if he is the nominee.

Maybe, but he WILL be damaged by BOTH!

118 posted on 10/14/2011 4:49:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
LDS missionaries (I trained for an LDS mission but left at the last moment for health reasons) do not tried to convert me by reading me Bible stories.


 
 
Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

 
 
Timeline...    Subject...
 
0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."
1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."
2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."


119 posted on 10/14/2011 4:51:08 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut

Nice guy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Alamo


120 posted on 10/14/2011 4:54:40 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
Even I know that, but you need to inform the evangelicals that passed around his literature while praising his great wisdom and holiness.

If (when?) they show up on FR, we will.

121 posted on 10/14/2011 4:56:16 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: boatbums; Ronin
Once that happens, any nice things they have said about Mormonism will go right into the memory hole ...


 


 
Eerily familiar...
 
 

Party ownership of the print media
made it easy to manipulate public opinion,
and the film and radio carried the process further.


 



16. Ministry Of Truth

.......

The Ministry of Truth, Winston's place of work, contained, it was said, three thousand rooms above ground level, and corresponding ramifications below.

The Ministry of Truth concerned itself with Lies. Party ownership of the print media made it easy to manipulate public opinion, and the film and radio carried the process further.

The primary job of the Ministry of Truth was to supply the citizens of Oceania with newspapers, films, textbooks, telescreen programmes, plays, novels - with every conceivable kind of information, instruction, or entertainment, from a statue to a slogan, from a lyric poem to a biological treatise, and from a child's spelling-book to a Newspeak dictionary.

Winston worked in the RECORDS DEPARTMENT (a single branch of the Ministry of Truth) editing and writing for The Times. He dictated into a machine called a speakwrite. Winston would receive articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to alter, or, in Newspeak, rectify. If, for example, the Ministry of Plenty forecast a surplus, and in reality the result was grossly less, Winston's job was to change previous versions so the old version would agree with the new one. This process of continuous alteration was applied not only to newspapers, but to books, periodicals, pamphlets, posters, leaflets, films, sound-tracks, cartoons, photographs - to every kind of literature or documentation which might conceivably hold any political or ideological significance.

When his day's work started, Winston pulled the speakwrite towards him, blew the dust from its mouthpiece, and put on his spectacles. He dialed 'back numbers' on the telescreen and called for the appropriate issues of The Times, which slid out of the pneumatic tube after only a few minutes' delay. The messages he had received referred to articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to rectify.

In the walls of the cubicle there were three orifices. To the right of the speakwrite, a small pneumatic tube for written messages; to the left, a larger one for newspapers; and on the side wall, within easy reach of Winston's arm, a large oblong slit protected by a wire grating. This last was for the disposal of waste paper. Similar slits existed in thousands or tens of thousands throughout the building, not only in every room but at short intervals in every corridor. For some reason they were nicknamed memory holes. When one knew that any document was due for destruction, or even when one saw a scrap of waste paper lying about, it was an automatic action to lift the flap of the nearest memory hole and drop it in, whereupon it would be whirled away on a current of warm air to the enormous furnaces which were hidden somewhere in the recesses of the building.

As soon as Winston had dealt with each of the messages, he clipped his speakwritten corrections to the appropriate copy of The Times and pushed them into the pneumatic tube. Then, with a movement which was as nearly as possible unconscious, he crumpled up the original message and any notes that he himself had made, and dropped them into the memory hole to be devoured by the flames.

What happened in the unseen labyrinth to which the tubes led, he did not know in detail, but he did know in general terms. As soon as all the corrections which happened to be necessary in any particular number of The Times had been assembled and collated, that number would be reprinted, the original copy destroyed, and the corrected copy placed on the files in its stead.

In the cubicle next to him the little woman with sandy hair toiled day in day out, simply at tracking down and deleting from the Press the names of people who had been vaporized and were therefore considered never to have existed. And this hall, with its fifty workers or thereabouts, was only one-sub-section, a single cell, as it were, in the huge complexity of the Records Department. Beyond, above, below, were other swarms of workers engaged in an unimaginable multitude of jobs.

There were huge printing-shops and their sub editors, their typography experts, and their elaborately equipped studios for the faking of photographs. There was the tele-programmes section with its engineers, its producers and its teams of actors specially chosen for their skill in imitating voices; clerks whose job was simply to draw up lists of books and periodicals which were due for recall; vast repositories where the corrected documents were stored; and the hidden furnaces where the original copies were destroyed.

And somewhere or other, quite anonymous, there were the directing brains who co-ordinated the whole effort and laid down the lines of policy which made it necessary that this fragment of the past should be preserved, that one falsified, and the other rubbed out of existence.

 
 


122 posted on 10/14/2011 4:58:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tennessee Nana
Courtesy PING to Elsie, the keeper of the pic

Not QUITE chisled, but that's a mere detail...



123 posted on 10/14/2011 5:01:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: brent13a
Greek Gentile christianity has ruled ever since, utilizing Paul's Greek writings to obscure and misdirect Jesus' Words and his original teachings.

John 6:28-29 (niv)

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”


124 posted on 10/14/2011 5:03:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
In what way is Mormonism different from Christianity in general that Catholicism isn't different from Protestantism?

There are many other examples.
125 posted on 10/14/2011 5:21:24 AM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: brent13a
For one, Jesus never labeled himself a 'christian'. His disciples never labeled themselves as 'christians'.

Well, since he is the "Christ" in "Christian," I am not suprised that Jesus himself did not label himself that way, since a Christian is a follower of Christ.

As for the disciples:

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

126 posted on 10/14/2011 5:46:55 AM PDT by alnick
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

Certainly you are.
If you support Cain then would go to Romney in a heart beat, you are choosing between a conservative and liberal.
It is that simple.
The two men are diametrically opposed.
How on earth can you switch from one to the other as though they are nearly the same.


127 posted on 10/14/2011 6:57:55 AM PDT by svcw (Those who are easily shocked... should be shocked more often. - Mae West)
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To: reaganaut

LDS ‘testimonies’ often start out with “I know the Church is true”.
__________________________________________

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

The so called “church” is made up of men, right ???

Well when the Mormons tossed out the Christian Bible out went this verse...

Let God be true and every man a liar ...Romans 3:4

As a Christian my testimony is “I know God is True”

Jesus said to the Mormons, “I AM the Truth, the Life and the Way. No man or woman comes to the Father except by Me.” John 14:6


128 posted on 10/14/2011 7:07:41 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

“We have more to fear from the scum that oozed out of Skull & Bones than whatever shenanigans are going on in the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City. “

Unless you are one of the deceived, set on a path to eternal hell. In that case, you would have more to fear from eternal loss than anything temporary.

Because of this, I am not voting for a RINO who is also a mormon. Both temporary and eternal consequences.

We each follow our own conscience.


129 posted on 10/14/2011 7:11:35 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (You know, 99.99999965% of the lawyers give all of them a bad name)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear; narses
When was the last time the Mormons made statements disparaging any Christian faith or committing acts against any Christian faith?

I personally have sat in the pew and heard local leaders condemn Christianity, claiming that it came from a poisoned tree...in particular, I remember a "talk" on the evils of the "Mariology" of the Catholic church.

I heard many times that "anyone with a DROP of negro blood should never be allowed to enter the temple, and laudatory stories of some temple worker who "had a feeling and refused entry to a couple" only to find out later that the man was 1/32nd negro.

Mormons will have to wait a few years until all of those who are witnesses to the present day anti-Christian mormon church have died, in order to whitewash the brand completely.

130 posted on 10/14/2011 7:15:34 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Joseph Smith, America’s first Comic Book author. He Produced the Adventures of Nephi-Mormon-Moroni)
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To: brent13a

brent13a:
“31ad to 69ce - establishment of James and the Jerusalem church and the original disciples there. The first assemblies of believers in Jesus’ Way happen there.”

Who do you mean when you say “the original disciples”?


131 posted on 10/14/2011 7:29:34 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: greyfoxx39; who_would_fardels_bear
I personally have sat in the pew and heard local leaders condemn Christianity, claiming that it came from a poisoned tree...in particular, I remember a "talk" on the evils of the "Mariology" of the Catholic church.

I heard many times that "anyone with a DROP of negro blood should never be allowed to enter the temple, and laudatory stories of some temple worker who "had a feeling and refused entry to a couple" only to find out later that the man was 1/32nd negro.

I too have heard these lessons in Mormon Church services, mostly Sunday School.

132 posted on 10/14/2011 7:40:53 AM PDT by colorcountry (Comforting lies are not your friends. Painful truths are not your enemies.)
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To: Elsie

Thanks, Elsie. Good reminders - specific, concrete, sourced - of what the foundation of Mormonism is. So much of this is either unknown or forgotten today. I mentioned some of these things to a lady about a week ago, she looked at me as if I couldn’t possibly be right. I didn’t argue with her. I just encouraged her to go and look up the facts for herself. I hope she does.


133 posted on 10/14/2011 7:50:39 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Elsie

All those Laminites and not one clay pot left behind? How do the Mormon’s explain this?

Were the Laminites the first and last eco friendly tribe to never leave a trace of their existence?


134 posted on 10/14/2011 7:56:30 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Elsie
http://www.bookofmormontours.com/

Oh my word...That's too funny. And deeply disturbing too!

One thing I'd have to say, if Romney were to ever get the GOP nomination, the Mormons would be hammered because the left would go after them full force. The only reason they can get away with that kind of non-sense is that there's no pay off for the media to expose them.

135 posted on 10/14/2011 8:03:04 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: dragonblustar

“One thing I’d have to say, if Romney were to ever get the GOP nomination, the Mormons would be hammered because the left would go after them full force.”

Don’t be too sure of that. Does the left go after jihadist muslims full force? Does it seem put off by the creep of Sharia into western society?


136 posted on 10/14/2011 8:14:33 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear; colorcountry; aMorePerfectUnion; Godzilla; Gamecock
The foundation of the Protestant church was the beginning of a great heresy which continues to this day.

The Catholic Church is an ongoing nightmare of corruption, pagan ritual and kowtowing to an imperfect human agent.

Those two statements sound pretty "anti-Christian to me.

At least some folks believe one or both of these statements.

Yeah, and these "folks" call themselves mormons.

It seems that only people that are aggressively anti-Mormon are evangelical Protestants

Let's see a source for this claim.

137 posted on 10/14/2011 8:23:09 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Joseph Smith, America’s first Comic Book author. He Produced the Adventures of Nephi-Mormon-Moroni)
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To: Belteshazzar
Don’t be too sure of that. Does the left go after jihadist muslims full force? Does it seem put off by the creep of Sharia into western society?

How many muslims are in the GOP? The left goes after anything GOP to make sure their brand, "democrat party", stays on top. If there was a popular muslim in the GOP, watch the media trip over themselves to attack him and his religion.

138 posted on 10/14/2011 8:24:30 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
Many words in this post #11 by you. Many straw men set up in defense of mormonism. Many criticisms of Christians, especially Evangelicals.

Might as well just openly support Romney for the nomination.

139 posted on 10/14/2011 8:30:43 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Joseph Smith, America’s first Comic Book author. He Produced the Adventures of Nephi-Mormon-Moroni)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

Show me ONE post that bashes mormons. Just one.
Put up the info, or retract the statement.


140 posted on 10/14/2011 8:40:01 AM PDT by svcw (Those who are easily shocked... should be shocked more often. - Mae West)
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To: dragonblustar

dragonblustar, you are surely correct in what you say.

However, you somewhat make my point for me. The issue for the left will not be Romney’s mormonism. It will be his usefulness/harmfulness quotient for the left. If it is deemed that he is unthreatening in the long run and that mean-spirited opposition to him more likely to damage the leftist brand, his mormonism will not be that much of an issue. The left is ultimately grounded in a godless, man-is-the-measure-of-all-things understanding of the world. It knows how to use, misuse, and abuse religion of every sort for its own purposes.

Besides which, at its heart, mormonism is not conservative. It is radically revisionist when it comes to society and government. Look at its early history and fundamental teachings (e.g. plural marriage, redistributionist economics, very undemocratic/representational government), much of which is concealed and toned down in our era. It is not hard to see where a Harry Reid can say - as he just did - that it is easier to be a Democrat and a good Mormon than to be a Republican and a good Mormon.


141 posted on 10/14/2011 8:41:07 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

When was the last time the Mormons made statements disparaging any Christian faith or committing acts against any Christian faith?
__________________________________________

Check Post #123

The words on the plaque include:

“I ASKED WHICH OF THE SECTS WAS RIGHT AND WHICH I SHOULD JOIN. I WAS ANSWERED I MUST JOIN NONE OF THEM. THEY WERE ALL WRONG. THEY TEACH FOR DOCTRINE THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN”

Meanwhile that 2nd part of your question “committing acts against any Christian faith?”

The answer includes...Every time they knock on the door of a Christian...


142 posted on 10/14/2011 8:45:01 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Elsie
ELESTIAL KINGDOM: See Heaven.

Thank you for this list, which I will pass on to a neighbor who's wondering why people are fussing about Mitt being Mormon.

I'm wondering if it's supposed to be "ELESTIAL" or "CELESTIAL" here.

143 posted on 10/14/2011 9:02:54 AM PDT by Tea Party Hobbit (The RINOs lack all conviction, and the Dems are full of passionate intensity)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
I’m a Christian conservative. You’re not a Christian conservative.

Well said. IMO, WFB is just a bomb-thrower and his posts are very anti-Christian.

144 posted on 10/14/2011 9:04:48 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Joseph Smith, America’s first Comic Book author. He Produced the Adventures of Nephi-Mormon-Moroni)
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To: Tea Party Hobbit
I'm wondering if it's supposed to be "ELESTIAL" or "CELESTIAL" here.

Quite probably the latter.

Thanks for catching that typo!


JESUS: Hey Smith!       Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But.... 

145 posted on 10/14/2011 10:25:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tea Party Hobbit
I'm wondering if it's supposed to be "ELESTIAL" or "CELESTIAL" here.

Quite probably the latter.

Maybe not!


HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

Telestial - where unbelievers go
Terrestrial - for religious people who aren't Mormons and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the
Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church.

146 posted on 10/14/2011 10:28:33 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: annieokie

The few Mormons that I know, all seem to have some emotional mental instability going on, most likely prior to joining. They were in emotional need of “Petting/stroking”, so to speak, and the Mormons saw that weakness and were more than ready to fill the bill.

These people most likely never knew the Real Christ, so they were susceptible to anything that looked “GOOD”.

- - - - -
Regarding the fact that they don’t know the real Christ you are correct. I (like other LDS converts) thought we were Christians but were really CINOs.

Regarding mental instability, not quite so sure. Mormonism CAUSES instability, but they LDS missionaries target those going through ‘life changes’ (just married, new baby, death in family) because they are more easily converted. I was taught that methond in trainign for my LDS mission. So they do prey on the weak and uniformed.

However, once in Mormonism, the pressure to perform is so great that it often leads to other, more serious metnal issues. For example, depression is extremely high among Mormon women. Also there is no real forgiveness either...one of their prophets said the following...

Mankind has the ability to perfect himself and become an omniscient and omnipotent God (p.2).

No one can repent on a cross, nor in prison, nor in custody (p.167).

Forgiveness is cancelled on reversion to sin (p.169).

Discontinuance of sin must be permanent (p.176).

Keeping God’s commandments brings forgiveness (p.201).

Salvation by grace alone was originated by Satan (p.206).

Only by living all of the commandments can a Mormon be sure he is forgiven (p.208).

Personal perfection is an achievable goal (p.209).

The time to become perfect is now, in this mortality (p.210).

Forgiveness could take “centuries” and is granted based on a Mormon’s humility, sincerity, works, and attitudes (p.325).

The repentance which merits forgiveness requires the transgressor to reach the point where the very desire or urge to sin is “cleared out of his life” (pp.354-355).

The Miracle of Forgivenes by Spencer W. Kimball

As for how I left, that is a long complicated story and I am still working on paring down my testimony a bit. Short version, I was confronted by a Christian bookstore owner with the same methods you see people complain on here. He didn’t let up, he didn’t invite me to a church picnic, he kept pounding me with LDS sources and the Bible and eventually got me mad enough to prove him wrong, so I set out to prove Mormonism false, to prove what I had been told about anti-Mormons (that they hate Mormons, lie, twist quotes and make things up) only to find out after about a year of real research that it was the LDS church lying to me. There were other factors as well, but that was the biggie.

Coming to Christ came later. After I had been out about 6 months (really ‘inactive’, hadn’t had my name removed yet), I moved home from Utah. There, I called my good friend from preschool, jr. High and High school, a Christian boy (man) who had told me right after I converted to Mormonism, that even though we grew up together, he could no longer be friends with me because it hurt him to much to know I was going to Hell. That conversation stuck with me the entire time I was LDS and it hurt to lose my best friend over my conversion. So, when I no longer believed, I called him to tell him I had left. He asked to go to a political party with him, we got there and our candidate had already conceded so he took me to church (AWANA). They needed help every week so I volunteered to listen to kids recite Bible verses and that is where I learned about salvation by Grace through faith. I am now happily married (for 16 years) to that young man.


147 posted on 10/14/2011 11:27:20 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Belteshazzar

We moved to another state since then and the LDS missionaries don’t tract our town very often, but I keep praying they show up.


148 posted on 10/14/2011 11:33:41 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: boatbums

YES, it matters VERY much what someone believes about everything because it will affect everything they do.

- - - -
Exactly what I have been saying here for a long time against the cries of ‘Romeny’s Mormonism doesn’t matter’, YES IT DOES.


149 posted on 10/14/2011 11:57:11 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Gamecock

To me, what is a cult and what isn’t, comes down to the question of authority.

Protestants see the Bible alone as their highest authority. All who substitute something else as that highest authority are cults.

The RCC, of course, as everybody knows, see their RCC “traditions” as that highest authority, traditions which establishes the Papacy as that highest authority. It is not the Bible alone, Papists add their “traditions” with the Bible as their authority.

Modern Judaism is Talmudic and sees the Talmud (many include the Kabbalah) with the Old Testament as their highest authority.

Islam has their Koran, of course, as their highest authority.

Mormonism, very similar to Talmudism and Islam, has their writings of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, as their highest authority. Again, not the Bible alone, but the Bible with other writings.

A non-cultist, in my view, looks to the Bible alone as his highest authority. It is Mormonism’s authoritative “sacred” writings that renders them a cult of the first order.


150 posted on 10/14/2011 12:54:12 PM PDT by sasportas
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