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Mormon Hypocrisy
13 October 2011 | Gamecock

Posted on 10/13/2011 5:52:58 PM PDT by Gamecock

I subscribe to a Mormon apologetic Newsletter titled FAIR (Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research).

Normally it falls into my junk email account and I don't even open it, but today I had a few minutes and scanned the latest offering and was stunned to see the hypocrisy of the authors. Please note the entire email is posted below.

This particular issue has a great deal of whining about those mean Christians who make the spurious claim that Mormons are not Christians, but are a cult.

A couple of examples:

-"Mormons are a cult" epithets into the national spotlight. In his "On Faith" commentary this week, Church Public Affairs managing director Michael Otterson suggests why people make such claims and shares his own experience of being labeled not Christian.

Calling Mormonism a cult is old hat, and the voters are yawning.

-Texas Gov. Rick Perry's minister ally Robert Jeffress might think Mitt Romney's church is a cult, but a new documentary on the presidency and Mormonism suggests that Romney could snag the nation's top job despite the religious feud between Christians.

-....the "cult" of Mormonism means that you raise a solid family, work hard, make money and do good for the greater community of mankind, then by all means pass the Kool-Aid.

-It seems just too petty and small for a country as big as America to have. America, as a melting pot of many cultures and many beliefs, is supposed to be more tolerant of differences.

-Another woman in Texas remembers that her LDS congregation was banned from participating in a community-wide Christmas event and that non-Church members once barged into Sunday meetings shouting that Mormons were cult members and devil worshippers.

The reader will note, when comparing the above quotes with the below article, that the quotes originate from the MSM. Why would the MSM, a known enemy of Christianity, care if Christians consider Mormons a cult or not? I suggest that these quotes are really more of an attack on Christianity than some deep concern for Mormons. Notice how when Mormons talk family values the press fawns over them. When Christians do the same we are are intolerant of other lifestyles.

That being said, consider the above quotes. Christians who deny Mormons mainstream status are bigoted, intolerant, etc. But ask your self this: are Mormons not intolerant when they make the following claim: that Joseph Smith unearthed a book of golden plates from a New York hillside in 1827 with the help of an angel and translated hieroglyphics that detailed the true Christian faith.

So Mormons don't want to be Christians, but rather the "true Christian faith." Isn't that just a bit intolerant?

I suspect what is really going on here is that in reality the MSM sees Romney as a palatable Republican. They don't really care about Mormons, but are afraid of Cain and Perry.

Take a few minutes and scan the below and see what other nuggets jump out at you. There are more than a couple.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Other Christian; Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: antiamericanism; antimormonflamebait; antimormonjihad; brighamyoung; cult; flamebait; hemanmormonhaters; hypocrisy; josephsmith; lds; mormoaner; mormon; mormonhypocrisy; mormonism; mormons; religiousbigotry; religioushatespeech; religioushatred; religiousintolerance; whining; whiningcult; zealotry
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
I heard today that there is a move afoot to ALLOW royalty to actually marry a Catholic...a CATHOLIC!...lol

Mormons can scream all they want...Catholics have been persecuted, banned,treated like non citizens, and it happens to this day....

51 posted on 10/13/2011 7:52:16 PM PDT by cherry
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
So maybe the Mormons are also Christian because they are also anti-Christian just like all the other Christians.

Except that mormon make it doctrine, the others not so.

52 posted on 10/13/2011 7:56:05 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: svcw
Third paragraph of which post?

And BTW I do know about Mormonism. I lived next to Mormons, I was proselytized by Mormons. I have read literature by Mormons and anti-Mormons. I have seen documentaries by Mormons, anti-Mormons, and supposedly unbiased reporters.

My take is that in order to truly believe a particular faith you necessarily have to believe that it is the one true faith. This is true for all Christian faiths, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, etc.

And if you believe in a particular faith then you want everyone else to believe that as well. And if you are trying to sell your faith to others you will highlight the good points and downplay the bad points.

And if you look into the past of all faiths you will find that they killed innocents and harbored miscreants.

In what way is Mormonism different from Christianity in general that Catholicism isn't different from Protestantism?

We live in a pluralistic society. We seldom get to vote for the best candidate, or even a decent one. I am hoping that Cain emerges as the Republican candidate, but if not then I will have to consider voting for Romney.

If Romney is the Republican candidate and I decide to vote against him it will either be because I find him to be too liberal to solve our economic problems, or because living in California I can make a strategic vote for the Green Party candidate in hopes they will receive 5% of the national vote and become a thorn in the side of the Democrats.

It won't be because he wears special underwear, engages in secret rites, and believes that one day he will rule an entire planet.

(But after all, if he is one day going to rule an entire planet, don't you think we should give him the chance to rule over one country, just to give him a little experience?
/sarc)

53 posted on 10/13/2011 7:57:00 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

I would concede that evangelical religious beliefs by-and-large are closer to Christian orthodoxy than those of Mormons, but their beliefs regarding biblical authorship and science are so whacko that they make Mormon beliefs seem downright sensible.

- - - - - -
Having been both, you are dead wrong on this. Also, all but a few ‘evangelicals’ (mostly KJV only independent baptists) do not go around trying to get people to leave mainline churches (like you listed) in favor of a non-denominational church. Also, Evangelicals don’t lie about their faith, especially to other Christians. We accept there can be differences, and we agree on the basics However the LDS intentionally deceive non-LDS to get them to join the ‘one true church’. Here is an example of a LDS/non-LDS convo showing how they intentionally lie and omit things.

Every LDS member is expected to find ‘investigators’ (people who would be interested in converting who take the missionary discussions - similar to RCIA). There is also a lot of people who hear things about beliefs but don’t know enough to know what the LDS are saying, that they use different meanings for terms, even though the LDS usually know that Christians mean different things. A typical exchange could go like this...

non - LDS - “I have a lot of Mormon friends, and they are nice people, but don’t Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers?”

LDS - No! We don’t believe that at all! Jesus is the only begotten Son of God! Joseph Smith saw Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and they said that all other churches had some problems and Joseph needed to start a Church that was the same as the one when Jesus Christ was on the Earth. Why don’t you come over for dinner and we will have the missionaries talk to you? There is a set of 6 discussions that they give that shows what we believe.

non-LDS - “Well, ok, but I read somewhere that Mormons believe they will become Gods”

LDS - “That was probably written by someone who has a grudge against the Church. They probably are one of the ones who gets paid to badmouth the Church or someone who couldn’t live by the principles of the Church so they left or they were offended by someone in their ward.

Ok, lets parse this. Notice how many times “the Church” is used. For the LDS it is all about “the Church”. LDS ‘testimonies’ often start out with “I know the Church is true”.

Then there is the automatic denial that Jesus and Satan are brothers. We saw it on this a thread the other day even. Now, all LDS know that their church teaches Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers. So why would you get a resounding “NO”? Because it makes their theology look silly. By stating “No” the LDS are lying to you, but they are thinking “Well they aren’t flesh brothers, just spirit brothers like we all are, Jesus is our Elder brother”. The other day an LDS came on one of these threads and stated “Jesus and Lucifer aren’t brothers, as if by Mary!”. Notice the subtlety of it. “As if by Mary” implying they aren’t physical brothers (which no one claimed). But they left out That Lucifer was the second born and Jesus was the firstborn of the spirit children.

Next we come to what would appear to be a rebuttal to the claim Jesus and Satan are brothers. “Jesus is the only begotten Son of God!” what they are not telling you is that they mean it in a literal sense. Jesus and Satan are SPIRIT brothers (like all of us) but Jesus is God’s physical son, God came down, had sex with Mary and conceived Jesus. So it isn’t a rebuttal at all and the LDS know that. They are intentionally twisting words to make you think they don’t believe Jesus and Satan are Spirit brothers.

Next Phrase - “Joseph Smith saw Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and they said that all other churches had some problems and Joseph needed to start a Church that was the same as the one when Jesus Christ was on the Earth.” This is referring to the “First Vision” (of which there are several contradictory accounts) and the Great Apostasy. The LDS will tone down things said about other Christians. In the first vision account, Smith isn’t told that other churches ‘had problems’ he was told “I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt http://lds.org/library/display/0,4945,104-1-3-4,00.html

“All wrong”, “Corrupt” and Creeds an abomination are not the same as “some problems” and the LDS know that. But they will soften it in order to not scare people off or to put the LDS church in a ‘better light’.

Next - about becoming Gods. Notice the LDS response is to go down a rabbit hole, rather than addressing the comment. Instead they lead the person to believe that the source was unreliable, or written by someone who had something to gain (money) or a former Mormon with a grudge. The question itself isn’t even addressed (lying by omission). It also causes the person to think that they might be wrong and that the LDS don’t believe that, even though the LDS person knows they do.

Finally, the invitation to meet with the missionaries. There is an assumption by many that these are people who know more about Mormonism than the average member and that isn’t true either. Most men and quite a few women serve LDS missions (I nearly did). They don’t have special knowledge. They also don’t tell you is the goal of those 6 discussions is to get you baptized Mormon and there is pressure put on you to read the Book of Mormon, pray about it, make commitments and convert. Those 6 discussions aren’t just a summary of LDS beliefs, they are the requirements for conversion and that is their goal. But they don’t tell you that, they make it sound like this is just a friendly way of talking to knowledgeable people about what the LDS believe.

Also, there is the doctrine of ‘line upon line, precept upon precept’ or “milk before meat”, that coverts are only told doctrines when they are spiritually ready to hear them. The missionary discussions are the barest of milk. You learn one set of things in them, and then after you convert you start to learn the rest of LDS theology. Then after a year of faithful membership (sometimes more) you get to go to the LDS temple and learn the ‘meat’ doctrines and are sworn to secrecy (used to have to swear blood oaths).


54 posted on 10/13/2011 8:00:31 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: svcw
"Every guy who comes to your door disparages Christianity"

The Mormon that came to my door tried to convert me by reading me Bible stories. There was no disparagement involved.

My Mormon next door neighbors never disparaged Christianity.

The Mormon who was part of our group of friends in High School never disparaged Christianity nor any of the Mormons I met at the dances, basketball games, or camps he dragged me to.

If anything the Mormons were akin to Christians like Joel Osteen: always emphasizing the positive and not spending much time on scripture or the downsides of not living a Christian life.

55 posted on 10/13/2011 8:03:27 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: brent13a

LDS relies heavily on ignorance of the masses. Even more so than I originally thought.

- - - -
Yes they do and they encourage that ignorance. It is a common theme to hear leaders (and other rank and file LDS) warn other members not to ‘think themselves out of the Church”.

I was warned several times not to try to prove ‘anti-Mormons’ wrong because it would ‘destroy my testimony’ and in way, they were right because when I found out the ‘antis’ were not lying but the LDS leadership was I left Mormonism.


56 posted on 10/13/2011 8:03:41 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: reaganaut
One of the things that disturbs me about Mormonism is their secretiveness. Evangelicals are definitely not secretive about their beliefs which is a major plus.

The only thing they were deceitful about was acting more tolerant up front than they really were down deep. They also seemed to be rather wimpy in their proselytizing efforts: going after Christians with whom they already had a lot in common, rather that out-and-out atheists and agnostics.

I realize this is not true of all evangelicals, and I realize that many of those that appeared deceitful to me may have been more deceiving themselves then knowingly trying to deceive me. Still it left a bad taste. Especially when all the smiles and hugs and directed Bible studies ultimately led to Tony Alamo tracts and YEC drivel.

57 posted on 10/13/2011 8:12:10 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Gamecock

If Romney is the nominee, I’ll vote for him; he may be a RINO, but he won’t ruin this country like Obama is. What I don’t get is why Mormons seem obsessed with saying that they are Christians. Why can’t their religion stand on its own two feet? If you’re a Mormon, say so, but don’t say your a Christian. The same with Jehovah’s Witnesses; I met one today and after I said I was a Christian, she immediately said, “so am I.” Hey, if you want to believe in that religion, I can’t stop you, but don’t call yourself something you’re not.


58 posted on 10/13/2011 8:17:32 PM PDT by Hammer Tym (Skateboarding is a crime)
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To: reaganaut

He all have our methods.


59 posted on 10/13/2011 8:19:22 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: The_Reader_David
I've done that, those young men get speechless.

If they believe in Christ as we do, "I ask them why do you need another BOOK?", "The Bible is just fine for me".

They can't answer that one either.

I see them everywhere, mostly loafing around on those bicycles, think they ever convert anyone? heehee.

60 posted on 10/13/2011 8:24:47 PM PDT by annieokie
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To: who_would_fardels_bear; svcw

And BTW I do know about Mormonism. I lived next to Mormons, I was proselytized by Mormons. I have read literature by Mormons and anti-Mormons. I have seen documentaries by Mormons, anti-Mormons, and supposedly unbiased reporters.

- - - - -
So, IOW, you know NOTHING about Mormonism. Got it.

I used to be Mormon, I lived it.

What the LDS puts out, what the LDS missionaries say isn’t what the LDS really believe or is sugar coated for PR. The ‘antiMormon’ stuff can be good or bad, depending on who did it, for example, the stuff from Ed Decker is no where near as reliable as the stuff from UTLM.ORG (Tanners).

Christians believe they are the one true faith, but we don’t believe our denomination is the oNLY true one (with a few execptions like KJV only Baptists). We accept other denominations as being Christian. You seem to be stuck on an erroneous belief of Christians calling other Christians non Christian and that isn’t the case.

Other churches accept each other’s baptism, for example, Methodists, Catholic, Orthodox and Evangelicals accepts each other’s baptism and/or confirmation for church membership and conversion. However, NONE of them accept Mormon baptism. Christians of all denominations agree on the important things, like the person work and nature of Christ however the LDS do not. Mormons reject the Bible except for a few poof texts (other churches do not). And since Vatican II, Catholics no longer consider Protestants to be outside the faith, however they do still exclude the LDS.


61 posted on 10/13/2011 8:25:30 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

Yes, it does - if it goes against the Bible. Now if you want to say that the Bible is wrong, that is another thing.


62 posted on 10/13/2011 8:25:39 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: Gamecock; All
IS MITT ROMNEY A RACIST BIGOT OR IS HE A LIAR?

And the Lord had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 5:21

Dear Mitt,

We have a simple question that requires a simple YES or NO answer.

Do you believe the Book of Mormon is true?

Please answer either YES or NO .

Sincerely,

Main Stream Media


The Mormon Church's past is indeed racist. From its scripture, to its doctrine, to teachings by top leadership, to its overt treatment of Blacks and American Indians – it is easy find hundreds of examples of overt racism – like the above quote from one of Mormonism’s most sacred books.

If Mitt says YES, then he has proven himself a bigot. If Mitt says NO, then he has lived a lie throughout his entire life.

Any of you Freepers dumb enough to think the MSM will not ask this question, or one like it, and then hammer home Mitt’s response if he becomes the Republican nominee?

63 posted on 10/13/2011 8:28:33 PM PDT by Zakeet (If it ain't broke, the Wee Wee will fix it until it is)
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To: reaganaut
"You seem to be stuck on an erroneous belief of Christians calling other Christians non Christian and that isn’t the case."

Have you ever visited a creationism vs. evolution thread on FR? A Free Will / Predestination thread?

64 posted on 10/13/2011 8:32:39 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Zakeet
If your point is that Mitt will be damaged by the MSM for his Mormonism, then what's new? Perry, if he is the nominee, will be castigated for being a Texas redneck, a bible-thumper, and a crony capitalist. Cain will be castigated for being an Uncle Tom.

Whoever we choose will be dumped on. Mitt will be damaged more by Romneycare than Mormonism if he is the nominee.

65 posted on 10/13/2011 8:35:47 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

Its called lying for the lord. Again I say you know nothing of mormonISM.


66 posted on 10/13/2011 8:38:00 PM PDT by svcw (Those who are easily shocked... should be shocked more often. - Mae West)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear; svcw; Elsie; ejonesie22; greyfoxx39

The Mormon that came to my door tried to convert me by reading me Bible stories. There was no disparagement involved.

- - - - -
RED FLAG THAT SHOWS YOU HAVE NOT MET LDS MISSIONARIES.

LDS missionaries (I trained for an LDS mission but left at the last moment for health reasons) do not tried to convert me by reading me Bible stories. In fact they avoid the Bible in their set of discussions unless it is to take a verse out of context as a ‘proof text’. The introduction conversation doesn’t mention the Bible at all. Rather the focus is on the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith and the First Vision.

Mormons don’t talk bad about Christians to their faces, they do it behind their backs. It is to make ‘the Church’ look good. However here are some quotes by LDS leadership which are believed and used by the LDS still today....

Scripture:

“And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth...”

- Doctrine and Covenants, section 1, verse 30

Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. (1805 - 1844):

“My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.”
“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: ‘they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.’”
“He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, ‘Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.’ I then said to my mother, ‘I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.’ It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me?

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Joseph Smith–History, v. 1, pp. 8–26

“What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270

“...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60

“Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 1, p. xl

Prophet Brigham Young (1801 - 1877):

“He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong; that they were following the precepts of men instead of the Lord Jesus; that He had a work for him to perform, inasmuch as he should prove faithful before Him.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 171

“Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 176

“When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was groveling in darkness.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 73

“With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 199

“The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 171

“...the time came when Paganism was engrafted into Christianity, and at last Christianity was converted into Paganism rather than converting the Pagans. And subsequently the Priesthood was taken from among men, this authority was re-called into the heavens, and the world was left without the Priesthood—without the power of God—without the Church and Kingdom of God.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 22, p. 44

Apostle Heber C. Kimball (1802 - 1868):

“Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers’ sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.

- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89

Prophet John Taylor (1808 - 1887):

“Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.”

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 167

“Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom.”

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 10, p. 127

“What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast.”

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

“What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God.”

- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

Apostle Orson Pratt (1811 - 1881):

“Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon’ whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255

“But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of Christian Churches ... But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 172

“... who, in his right mind, could, for one moment, suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse of the whole Bible has escaped pollution so as to convey the same sense now that it did in the original.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, “The Bible and Tradition, without Further Revelation, an insufficient Guide,” Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon – No. 3, December 1, 1850, p. 47; see Abanes, One Nation Under Gods, p. 383-384

“This great apostacy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now. A short time after the death of the last of the Apostles, the Christian Church, what few of them remained, were persecuted from mountain to mountain, from den to den, from one cave of the earth to another, and from nation to nation until they were entirely exterminated and rooted out of the earth. Well, what was left? An apostate Christianity, a Christianity without revelators, without any voice of God, without any Prophets to unfold the future, without visions, without any communications from the heavens.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 44

“This class of men, calling themselves Christian, uniting with the various forms of the pagan religion, adopting many of their ceremonies and institutions, became very popular, and finally some of the pagans embraced Christianity and were placed, as it were, upon the throne, and what they termed Christianity became very popular indeed. How long has this order of things existed, this dreadful apostacy, this class of people that pronounced themselves Zion, or Christians, without any of the characteristics of Zion? It has existed for some sixteen or seventeen centuries. It has spread itself and grown and gone into the four quarters of the earth. It is the great ecclesiastical power that is spoken of by the revelator John, and called by him the most corrupt and most wicked of all the powers of the earth, under the name of spiritual Babylon, or in other words Babel, which signifies confusion. This great and corrupt power is also represented by John as presenting a golden cup to the nations, full of all manner of filthiness and abominations.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 14, p. 346

“But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be. They say, “We have built chapels unto the name of the Lord; we call our Churches Christian Churches, they are called the Church of Christ, St. John’s Church, St. Paul’s Church, St. Peter’s Church, and after others of the ancient Apostles;” and one who had never studied the pattern which God has given of the Christian Church would almost really believe that they are Christian Churches. But there has been a long apostacy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance, and they are represented in the revelations of St. John as a woman sitting upon a scarlet colored beast, having a golden cup in her hand, full of filthiness and abominations, full of the wine of the wrath of her fornication; that in her forehead there was a name written—”Mystery, Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots.” This kind of a church has existed in great abundance, for as John the Revelator says, she was to have her dominion upon many waters, and she was to make all nations drunken with the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 172

“Q. After the Church of Christ fled from earth to heaven, what was left? A. A set of wicked Apostates, murderers, and idolaters, who, after having made war with the saints, and overcome them, and destroyed them out of the earth, were left to follow the wicked imaginations of their own corrupt hearts, and to build up churches by human authority, and to follow after the cunning craftiness of uninspired men; having no Apostle, Prophet, or Revelator to inquire of God for them: and thus, because of wickedness, the Church, and Priesthood, and gifts, and ordinances and blessings of the everlasting Gospel, were taken from the earth, and reserved in heaven until the fulness of times, when it was predicted that they should again be restored among men to continue until the end should come.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, Chapter 16, p. 205

Prophet Wilford Woodruff (1807 - 1898):

“The Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called”

- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 196

Apostle George Q. Cannon (1827 - 1901):

“After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon.”

- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324

Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith (1876 - 1972):

“Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness.”

- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 266

“For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the ‘Christian’ churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men.”

- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 282

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie (1915 - 1985):

“...the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, ...But with the Bible it was not and is not so....it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization [Christianity], founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was.”

- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13

“Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.”

- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46

“... all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ.... in large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed the Unknown Gods.”

- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 269, 374-375

Prophet Ezra Taft Benson (1899 - 1994):

“This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth...”

- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 164-165

Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley (1910 - ):

“We accept that as a statement which came to him [Joseph Smith’s vision in which he was told all other religions were “abominations”], which is printed, of course, and published in his history as a statement. But we go forward with a friendly relationship, with a respect for people everywhere and with an effort to accept them as we meet them and, where opportunity exists, to talk with them and explain to them what we believe.... We don’t criticize them for what they believe. We accept the good that comes of that understanding which they have, but we feel we having something to offer beyond what they have.”

- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, interview with Richard Ostling, as quoted in Mormon America, by Richard and Joan Ostling, p. 323

“Said he [a Protestant minister] ‘I’ve been all through this building, this temple which carries on its face the name of Jesus Christ, but nowhere have I seen any representation of the cross, the symbol of Christianity. I have noted your buildings elsewhere and likewise find an absence of the cross. Why is this when you say you believe in Jesus Christ.’ I responded:‘ I do not wish to give offense to any of my Christian brethren who use the cross on the steeples of their cathedrals and at the altars of their chapels, who wear it on their vestments, and imprint it on their books and other literature. But for us, the cross is the symbol of the dying Christ, while our message is a declaration of the living Christ.’ He then asked: ‘If you do not use the cross, what is the symbol of your religion?’ I replied that the lives of our people must become the only meaningful expression of our faith and, in fact, therefore, the symbol of our worship.”

- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, April 1975

Others:

“… we can see the situation in which the world now stands that the eyes of the whole world are blinded, that the chuches have all become corrupted, yea every church upon the face of the earth; that the Gospel of Christ is nowhere preached.”

- Lucy Mack Smith, Joseph Smith Jr.’s mother, letter to Solomon Mack, January 6, 1831, reprinted, in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, v. 1, p. 216

“God is not at its head, making that church [i.e., Christianity] – following the appearance in it of Satan – no longer the church of God. To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the apostles is not to say that all that is in it is Satanic.”

- Kent P. Jackson, “Early Signs of Apostasy,” Ensign, December 1984, p. 9


67 posted on 10/13/2011 8:39:11 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

Let’s skip all your bather about mormonISM (which is clear you know nothing about)and concentrate on how you are undecided between Cain and Romney. Really? You are undecided between a liberal and a conservative, you stretch the bounds of credulity.


68 posted on 10/13/2011 8:43:24 PM PDT by svcw (Those who are easily shocked... should be shocked more often. - Mae West)
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To: mylife

Agreed. See my tagline. I do what I do because I’ve seen it work and work well.


69 posted on 10/13/2011 8:46:37 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: reaganaut
Praise the Lord for bringing you out of that Cult, and Bless you for your testimony regarding the lies the Mormans teach.
70 posted on 10/13/2011 8:47:29 PM PDT by annieokie
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

Tony Alamo tracts and YEC drivel.

- - - - -
Tony Alamo is a cult leader, not a Christian.


71 posted on 10/13/2011 8:48:28 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: annieokie; The_Reader_David

I see them everywhere, mostly loafing around on those bicycles, think they ever convert anyone? heehee.

- - - - -
Going door to door, not really. The converts come from other members inviting their friends “Every member a missionary” and prepping their friends/acquaintances to meet with the LDS missionaries and help with the pressure to convert (and there IS pressure).


72 posted on 10/13/2011 8:50:57 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: svcw
"how you are undecided between Cain and Romney"

Learn to read.

I did not say that I was undecided between Cain and Romney. I said that if Romney is the nominee I would be undecided between voting for him or voting for someone else.

So I'm not a big Romney supporter. I know that a lot of people say they will never vote for Romney, but there were a lot of people saying they could never vote for McCain either, and then they went on this whiner's brigade about how we had to hold our noses and vote for the lesser of two evils or vote for Palin and hope for heavenly intervention.

If the worst case scenario happens and Romney is the nominee then I might check back on all the Mormon-bashing threads and see which of you is still adamantly opposed to him becoming President.

73 posted on 10/13/2011 8:53:04 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: reaganaut
"Tony Alamo is a cult leader, not a Christian."

Even I know that, but you need to inform the evangelicals that passed around his literature while praising his great wisdom and holiness.

74 posted on 10/13/2011 8:54:58 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: annieokie

Praise the Lord indeed! I am humbly grateful that I was rescued out of Mormonism.


75 posted on 10/13/2011 9:01:25 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

Your post glosses over a camel as it tries to swallow a gnat.

At the end of the day, ALL Christian churches have a shared belief in the core elements of Christianity. Mormons do not. That is why Mormonism isn’t a Christian faith.

Mormonism is a collection of heresies the Christian church condemned, masonism, new age religion and paganism.


76 posted on 10/13/2011 9:02:27 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (You know, 99.99999965% of the lawyers give all of them a bad name)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

They are cult followers not Evangelicals. Again with the over reaching definition of ‘Christian’.


77 posted on 10/13/2011 9:03:11 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Nowhere did I say that Mormonism is Christian. I am sorry if I implied otherwise.

What my main point was is that I do not consider a Mormon a liar for calling himself a Christian. I do not hold it against Romney in any way.

I would vote for a Mormon. I would have voted for Orrin Hatch if he were the nominee in the 80's.

If Romney is the nominee and I don't vote for him it won't be because he is Mormon.

We have more to fear from the scum that oozed out of Skull & Bones than whatever shenanigans are going on in the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City.

78 posted on 10/13/2011 9:07:19 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: reaganaut
These were members of Inter Varsity Christian Fellowship.

Is that a cult? I might say so, but you probably wouldn't.

79 posted on 10/13/2011 9:08:30 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: reaganaut
I really knew the answer to that, they are just occupying and spending their youth. lol

I suspected that the converts were mostly from acquaintances of Mormons.

The few Mormons that I know, all seem to have some emotional mental instability going on, most likely prior to joining. They were in emotional need of "Petting/stroking", so to speak, and the Mormons saw that weakness and were more than ready to fill the bill. Sort of like a slick salesman seeing his next victim and ready to say whatever it takes to make the sale.

These people most likely never knew the Real Christ, so they were susceptible to anything that looked "GOOD".

Tell me, how did you finally learn the truth about Christ and get out of the Mormon cult? I would love to hear your testimony on that, as well as reading all your inside information about MormonISM on this thread.

80 posted on 10/13/2011 9:11:56 PM PDT by annieokie
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To: Ronin
Once that happens, any nice things they have said about Mormonism will go right into the memory hole and a full scale assault on every controversial aspect of LDS Church history will hit every MSM outlet because they want the Republicans to lose and they will use any weapon they can grasp to make that happen.

You got that right! Can we PLEASE not fall for it again GOP? PLEASE???

81 posted on 10/13/2011 9:12:39 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: brent13a

brent13a wrote:
“While Pauline Christianity is FAR from what Jesus originally professed to his disciples, Mormonism is so beyond even Pauline Christianity that it’s indistinguishable from any pagan cult I’ve ever read about.”

FAR, huh? Care to expand on that?


82 posted on 10/13/2011 9:21:56 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

who would fardels bear wrote:
“When was the last time the Mormons made statements disparaging any Christian faith or committing acts against any Christian faith?”

You are right. It has been quite awhile; perhaps even half a century.

Mormons used to decry and mock Christianity. John Taylor, the third Mormon president, was noted for his ability - while a missionary in Europe - to tear Christianity apart and mock the unreasonableness of a Triune God. Mormons used to denigrate and rail against the government of the United States of American and the various states in which they resided for evil-doing. They even fought a war with the United States in 1850’s. Mormons used to speak out defiantly in favor of plural marriage and its virtues, Brigham Young and John Taylor were lions in this fight. Mormons used to proclaim that there was only one way for a man to atone for abominable sin: to have his throat cut and spill his own blood in atonement for his sins.

Now they identify themselves with Christianity and proclaim they are offended when their Christianity is questioned. Now they are among the most loyal of Americans. Now they preach family values to everyone. Now they demand tolerance for the aberrant. In other words they have caved in to pressure on nearly everything that they held dear a century or more ago. What are we to make of this?

Well, let’s see. When I run into an individual who, under pressure, goes back on nearly everything he claimed to hold dear, what does this tell me about his principles?

So, “who would fardels bear,” I recognize the facticity of what you are saying. However, while it seems to inspire confidence in you, it simply makes me question all the more what is there when all the obfuscations have been peeled away. Is there any there there? I think not.

Nice try. But your argument doesn’t hold water.


83 posted on 10/13/2011 9:46:18 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: reaganaut

Reaganaut, I have no doubt that you and your husband are both wise and kind. May you continue to so treat Mormon missionaries ... if you have the chance.


84 posted on 10/13/2011 9:52:24 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear; Elsie

When was the last time the Mormons made statements disparaging any Christian faith or committing acts against any Christian faith?
____________________________________

When was the last time you read the disparaging words made against the Christian faith that Mormons chiseled IN STONE in Temple Square in Salt Lake City ??

Courtesy PING to Elsie, the keeper of the pic


85 posted on 10/13/2011 10:22:38 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Belteshazzar
FAR, huh? Care to expand on that?

I don't know where to start.
For one, Jesus never labeled himself a 'christian'.
His disciples never labeled themselves as 'christians'.
The first gathering of followers in Jerusalem after Jesus' execution were not 'christians' and never would have labeled themselves as such.
They were all jews, or proselytes.
Like I stated above, Jesus taught from Torah/Tanakh as did his followers and their immediate descendants. They did not bring a brand 'new testament', Jesus brought a renewed testament, just like the prophet Jeremiah describes.
Christianity & the 'christian church' (while later existing parallel to the assemblies in Jerusalem) was a development wholly separate from the disciples and what they taught from Jesus.
There was no "collaboration" between Jerusalem and Antioch, no melding, and no constant crossing of paths until the 4th & 5th centuries. In the 4th and 5th centuries Rome became the predominant religious power and all the descendant groups from Jerusalem and the original disciples (Nazoreans, Ebionites, Elcasaites, Mattheans, Johannites, etc) were labeled heretics, the evil Judaizers.
It did not matter they had direct lineage and providence back to Jesus and the original disciples.
Greek Gentile christianity has ruled ever since, utilizing Paul's Greek writings to obscure and misdirect Jesus' Words and his original teachings.

Before you label me batsht crazy and a cultist have you ever asked yourself how Jesus and his disciples and their immediate descendants got along teaching without any of Paul's writings? How did they originate the movement without any of Paul's writings? How did they continue the movement if they never had Paul's collected epistles?

It doesn't matter to most people, but it does to me. It matters a lot to me. It matters to me how the originals of the originals followed what Jesus taught and professed. When you stray from that you get crap like Mormonism and Scientology.
86 posted on 10/13/2011 10:24:05 PM PDT by brent13a (Freerepublic is a great sight for conservative news, if you can stomach the cop hating.)
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To: reaganaut
You know, after reading about all that, the very thought of having a guy like Romney - a bishop or some other kind of “higher up” in the LDS organization - makes my skin crawl. Imagine having someone like Tom Cruise - a Scientologist and the REAL wacko stuff they believe - running our country! YES, it matters VERY much what someone believes about everything because it will affect everything they do.
87 posted on 10/13/2011 10:27:46 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: Belteshazzar
FAR, huh? Care to expand on that?

If you really care to see I'm not entirely full of it or are even a bit interested I'd say start looking at some stuff from Geza Vermes and Gerd Ludemann and go from there.
88 posted on 10/13/2011 10:53:18 PM PDT by brent13a (Freerepublic is a great sight for conservative news, if you can stomach the cop hating.)
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To: brent13a

Well, brent13a, your answer is very high on the passion index and very low on the verification index. Lots of assertions, no grounding of them in the extant sources.

Please realize that when you make such a sweeping statement as you did in the post to which I first responded, it should be backed up with some justification.
1) Jesus never labeled Himself a Christian.
OK, no argument. He didn’t. On the other hand, a Christian is by definition a follower of Christ. So ...
2) His disciples never labeled themselves as “christians.”
No, they didn’t. But did they profess themselves to be followers of Him who said He was “the way, the truth, and the life”? I think yes. So, if we label them followers of Christ, are we wrong? I think not.
3) Regarding the first gathering of Christians and what they would have labeled themselves.
First, see above. Then, no, they didn’t. But I don’t really think you can read their minds any better than I can. The bottom line is that they followed Him and professed Him. Show how that is wrong.
4) They were all jew or proselytes.
Yup. And then the followed the promised Messiah.
5) Jesus taught from the Torah/Tanakh.
Yup. And it testified of Him, and that all who would have life must come to Him, must be His followers. (John 5:39)
6) Christianity was wholly separate from Jesus’ disciples.
Well, brent13a, that assertion will take a bit of disproving. And I just don’t think you are up to it. But then no one else is either.
7) There was no collaboration between Jerusalem and Antioch.
I see. And the proof of that is?
What you say thereafter is a bit convoluted. So, I will refrain from responding.

Well, I did not label you “batsht crazy and a cultist.” You are the one who brought it up.

I will agree with you about Mormonism and Scientology, though perhaps for different reasons. And I would certainly choose different terminology to describe them.


89 posted on 10/13/2011 10:57:59 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: brent13a

I’d say Geza and Gerd are “full of it,” to use your colorful phrasing. They follow a long line of such “wise” men.


90 posted on 10/13/2011 11:02:12 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Belteshazzar
To each his own then. I know my history, my passion comes from the history. Just like I abhor leftist progressives rewriting history about our country's founding so goes the same for my spiritual beliefs. You can call Vermes and Ludemann crazy but within the halls of religious scholastics they are still considered giants and their work is constantly referenced.

30ad - Execution of Jesus

31ad to 69ce - establishment of James and the Jerusalem church and the original disciples there. The first assemblies of believers in Jesus' Way happen there.

50ad - Paul meets with James in Jerusalem

51ad - Paul writes his first letter/epistle

67ad - Paul dies

70ad - Destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, scattering of the 'Jerusalem Church' to various groups

71ad to 300ad - the establishment and settlement of splinter groups descended from James and the Jerusalem church (Nazarenes, Ebionites, Matteans, Nicolaitons) throughout Asia, Syria, etc.

140ad - Marcion established the first collection of Paul's letters

180ad - Irenaeus collected & accepted all Paul's letters except Philemon

300ad-330ad Emperor Constantine solidifies the labeling of heretics (nazoreans/ebionites=judaizers, etc) against the catholic church

382ad - Vetus Latina bible collective

400ad - The Latin Vulgate is published

31ad - 100ad onward, the assembly of disciples in Jerusalem taught The Way of Jesus from there. Paul's letters didn't exist yet or they weren't collected together. Paul's letters were never collected together by any of the descendants of the 'Jerusalem Church'. The same as there was never a "New Testament" bible produced by James, or the Nazoreans, the Ebionites, etc.
91 posted on 10/13/2011 11:37:31 PM PDT by brent13a (Freerepublic is a great sight for conservative news, if you can stomach the cop hating.)
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To: The_Reader_David
I strongly suggest the method, whatever confession of Christianity (or non-Christian religion) you adhere to: just preach to them when they turn up and after a while, they stop.

Just like on FR; after we have pointed ...out the errors of their respective confessions...

92 posted on 10/14/2011 3:45:49 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: jiminycricket000
If, as they believe, that Jesus Christ is not God Incarnate, is not Divine, then they pray and live in vain.

Well, to be honest, they DO believe that Jesus is devine and GOD in the flesh, but it's the EXTRA beliefs and rituals that puts them into the CULT definition.

93 posted on 10/14/2011 3:49:08 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: jiminycricket000
...MITT ROMNEY is a loser.

Yeah; but THIS time he is not facing that formidable foe: John McCain!!

94 posted on 10/14/2011 3:50:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Steelfish
Mormons rarely if even have any great intellects...

But their archeologists are HIGHLY rated...

...by UFO groups.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_and_the_Book_of_Mormon

95 posted on 10/14/2011 3:53:33 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
I reluctantly voted for McCain (rather than against Obama) because he is a war hero, he has experience, and the economy was going to hell. I also liked his running mate.If you think most people on FR voted FOR McCain rather than against Obama you are on the wrong web site.
96 posted on 10/14/2011 3:54:39 AM PDT by conservaterian (Sarah/DeMint '12-XXX= Now what? Cain?)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
It seems that only people that are aggressively anti-Mormon are evangelical Protestants people who have...

...actually READ the Bible and can spot a HERESY when they see it!

97 posted on 10/14/2011 3:57:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

Preface to the Book of Mormon 1830 Ed.

 

PREFACE.

TO THE READER—

    As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by the evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated, by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi, which was an account abridged from the plates of Lehi, by the hand of Mormon; which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again—and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over again, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated, which ye have retained; and behold ye shall publish it as the record of Nephi; and thus I will confound those who have altered my words. I will not suffer that they shall destroy my work; yea, I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil. Wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, I have, through his grace and mercy, accomplished that which he hath commanded me respecting this thing. I would also inform you that the plates of which hath been spoken, were found in the township of Manchester, Ontario county, New-York.

        THE AUTHOR.


98 posted on 10/14/2011 4:04:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dragonblustar
AUTHOR!!!


99 posted on 10/14/2011 4:06:33 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dragonblustar
Its got to be frustrating not finding any evidence to corroborate the book of Mormon.

Ya think?


 
MORMON
Chapter 6

The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battles—Mormon hides the sacred records in the hill Cumorah—The Lamanites are victorious, and the Nephite nation is destroyed—Hundreds of thousands are slain with the sword. About A.D. 385.

1 And now I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites.

2 And I, Mormon, wrote an epistle unto the king of the Lamanites, and desired of him that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah, and there we could give them battle.

3 And it came to pass that the king of the Lamanites did grant unto me the thing which I desired. 

4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.

5 And *when three hundred and eighty and four years had passed away, we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah.

6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.

7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.

8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers.

9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war.

10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.

11And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.

12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.

13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.

14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.

15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each; yea, even all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen; and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.

16 And my soul was rent with anguish, because of the slain of my people, and I cried:

17 O ye fair ones, how could ye have departed from the ways of the Lord! O ye fair ones, how could ye have rejected that Jesus, who stood with open arms to receive you!

18 Behold, if ye had not done this, ye would not have fallen. But behold, ye are fallen, and I mourn your loss.

19 O ye fair sons and daughters, ye fathers and mothers, ye husbands and wives, ye fair ones, how is it that ye could have fallen!

20 But behold, ye are gone, and my sorrows cannot bring your return.

21 And the day soon cometh that your mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies which are now moldering in corruption must soon become incorruptible bodies; and then ye must stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, to be judged according to your works; and if it so be that ye are righteous, then are ye blessed with your fathers who have gone before you.

22 O that ye had repented before this great destruction had come upon you. But behold, ye are gone, and the Father, yea, the Eternal Father of heaven, knoweth your state; and he doeth with you according to his justice and mercy.


 
 
Mormon 8:2
And now it came to pass that after the great and tremendous battle at Cumorah, behold, the Nephites who had escaped into the country southward were hunted by the Lamanites, until they were all destroyed.


100 posted on 10/14/2011 4:11:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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