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Is Prodigal Son Church and Older Brother Israel?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2015:11-32&version=KJV | marbren

Posted on 10/15/2011 9:30:31 AM PDT by marbren

Luke 15:11-32

(KJV)

11And he said, A certain man had two sons:

12And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.

13And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

14And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.

15And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.

16And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.

17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

18I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,


TOPICS: Apologetics
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To: Iscool

i really can’t believe people are still looking for a physical kingdom, even after Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. then i remember faith is a gift and no one can understand spiritual truths unless the Holy Spirit leads them.


201 posted on 10/19/2011 2:33:30 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; marbren
Where does man get the authorization from God to change the meaning of Scripture?

We do not change the meaning of scripture by finding something that is already there. We know that there is at least one allegory in scripture. If there are others, then God has given us the means to discern them.
Matt 13:37-39 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
You will note that each of the items in this parable is given a meaning. Are these meanings the same when we encounter these symbols elsewhere in scripture?

Scripture specifically states in Romans 5 that Adam is a figure of Christ. There is no such statement about Issac and Joseph, but Christ said of scripture “they are they which testify of me.” Should we be looking for Christ in the Old Testament? Was it a prophecy when Abraham took Issac to sacrifice him? What about Joseph when he sent the gentiles out of the room and revealed himself to his brothers? Will Christ reveal himself to Israel when they come looking for spiritual food during the coming spiritual famine?
1 Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them [as] types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come. (Darby Translation)
How do you know there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel?
202 posted on 10/19/2011 3:21:12 PM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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To: Seven_0
We know that there is at least one allegory in scripture.

There is a difference between God including parables and allegories in His Scripture; parables and allegories which always stand for something, and man taking it upon himself to allegorize something in Scripture such as the literal thousand year kingdom of Christ which God never gave any indication that should be allegorized.

If God has put an allegory in the Bible, He did it for a reason. He never anywhere at any time authorized man to change the clear, literal meaning of Scripture.

Are these meanings the same when we encounter these symbols elsewhere in scripture?

We know that "tares" is used in Matthew and symbolizes the wicked unsaved at the end of the Tribulation who will be thrown into hell. I would say that you have to take each passage individually; Scripture interprets itself and there is no need for man to step in and decide that any Scripture needs to be changed from the way God wrote it.

Should we be looking for Christ in the Old Testament?

Absolutely. Here is a great site that gives Old Testament prophecies that were fulfilled by Christ.

Was it a prophecy when Abraham took Issac to sacrifice him?

Nope - God tells us it was a test. Nothing more needs to be read into it. God already told us what that was all about.

What about Joseph when he sent the gentiles out of the room and revealed himself to his brothers?

Tell me what God said about it. Does the passage indicate that what Joseph did was prophetic?

Will Christ reveal himself to Israel when they come looking for spiritual food during the coming spiritual famine?

Can you give me the Scripture you're referring to?

How do you know there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel?

From Seventy Prophetic Weeks of Daniel:

snip

The message God gave Gabriel to deliver to Daniel concerning the taking away of Israel's transgressions, the coming of Messiah, and the bringing in of the kingdom, is given in Daniel 9:2427. Gabriel informed Daniel that concerning the bringing in of the kingdom of God to Israel, a 70-week plan was in operation. During this period, Daniel's prayers would be answered. This plan involved the following things which Daniel prayed for:

1. Finish the transgression;
2. Make an end of sin;
3. Make reconciliation for iniquity;
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness;
5. Seal up the vision and prophecy; and
6. Anoint the Most Holy (place).

In considering the meaning of the 6 things which Gabriel prophesied, let us keep in mind that, according to verse 24, they concern Israel as a race, the holy city Jerusalem, the land of Palestine, the Temple, and the Messiah. The prophecy is Jewish from beginning to end. Gentiles are not even referred to in an indirect way, and the dispensation of grace is completely hidden from view. The single reference to any Gentile says "the people of the prince that shall come." This is a prince and a people who are not of Israel, and this single reference proves the Antichrist will not be an Israeli. Now we will consider the 6 things Gabriel promised Daniel relating to the kingdom over which the Messiah will reign: Finish the Transgression: "Finish the transgression" means that the transgression of Israel against the law and commandments of God will be brought to an end when Christ returns to rule on David's throne (Ezekiel 39:24-25).

Make an End of Sin: The end of sin is when the sinner accepts Jesus Christ as the One who died for sin. The sin mentioned by Gabriel meant the sins of Israel. Israel, as a nation, has not up to this time accepted Jesus Christ as the Messiah; therefore, the nation as a whole continues in sin. Israel will be saved from their sins by receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord when He appears to the nation in all His glory (Romans 11:26-27).

Make Reconciliation for Iniquity: Iniquity means wickedness and a sinful condition-lost in sin. Today moral conditions in Israel are about the same as they are in the U.S., but when Jesus Christ returns as King of Israel and the law goes forth from Jerusalem, the iniquity of Israel will be taken away. Every living Jew will look upon Him whom they pierced and mourn for Him as the only Son. As promised, they will become a nation of priests for God to all the world (Zechariah 12:10-12; Revelation 1:5-7).

Bring in Everlasting Righteousness: No individual, including the Jew, has any righteousness of his own. The only righteousness that man can attain is that righteousness which is by faith in Jesus Christ, and that is in imputed righteousness. Righteousness shall prevail over all Israel when Jesus Christ is received as the Messiah. This truth is declared in Jeremiah 23:6.

Seal Up the Vision and the Prophecy: This does not mean the particular vision and prophecy which God delivered to Daniel. It means all visions and all prophecies recorded in the Bible. All the prophecies recorded in the Bible were revealed to Israelites, and all prophecy is sealed up in Israel. Daniel was commanded to seal up the book of his prophecy until the time of the end, meaning when the Jews began to return to the land. And only when the Jews began to return to their land did men begin to understand the prophecies that applied to the last days. Gentile ministers today expound the prophecies that were given to the Jews, but the time is coming when Christ returns that the gift of prophecy and visions will again be sealed up in God's covenant people (Joel 2:27-28).

Anoint the Most Holy: This anointing of the Most Holy, or Holy of Holies, means the sanctification of the Temple with the presence of Messiah. This will not occur until the Lord comes to His Millennial Temple. We read of this glorious event in Ezekiel 43:2, 4-5.

All of the things Daniel prayed for Israel will be fulfilled when Israel looks upon the One whom the nation nailed to a cross and receives Him as the Messiah. The hope of those things promised by God in the covenants lies in a Savior, a Redeemer, a Deliverer, the One whom the New Testament reveals as the Lord Jesus Christ. The Messiah, according to Gabriel, would come to Israel at the end of the 69 prophetic weeks, only to be cut off. But there is still one week left-the 70th week, and it is the last day of this week that holds the prophecy of His coming again.

So far in our study of the ninth chapter of Daniel, we have discussed the first 69 of the 70 prophetic weeks, a period of 483 years. According to Gabriel, the period was to begin with the signing of a decree to rebuild Jerusalem. It is agreed by the vast majority of biblical authorities that Christ was crucified at the age of 33 1/2 years. Therefore, it occurred in A.D. 34. It has been discovered, and widely reported in thousands of reliable publications, that an error was made by the Romans of 4 years in setting up their calendar, the same calendar we use today. This was a plus factor, therefore we have to add to the 34 years, 4 more years. We then subtract from the 69 weeks, 483 years, the sum of 34 years and 4 years, and we arrive at 445 years. Artaxerxes signed the decree to rebuild Jerusalem in 445 B.C., proving beyond any reasonable doubt that Jesus Christ is the Messiah of Israel. The Messiah had to be cut off in A.D. 34, and Christ is the only person that history records as claiming to be this Promised One.

Gabriel also prophesied that after the Messiah was cut off that Jerusalem and the Temple would be destroyed. This happened. And so we read again in Daniel 9:26, "and the end thereof shall be with a flood." What end? The end of the 70 weeks, the last week, a period of 7 years known as the Great Tribulation. The prophecy of Gabriel indicated that between the 69th and 70th weeks there would be a breach, and we know this breach as the diaspora of the Jews, and the dispensation of grace for the Gentiles. This breach has now lasted for almost 2,000 years. We read again in Daniel 9:26, "and unto the end of the war desolations are determined." So we know that the 70th week will be a time of desolations-war, pestilences, and famine. Jesus Himself referred to the final week of Daniel in Matthew 24:15-16, 21-22.

Let us now continue and read more about this last week in Daniel 9:27:

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Who is the "he" that is going to confirm the covenant with "many" in Israel for one week, or 7 years? What is the covenant he is going to confirm? What is this person going to do in the Temple in the middle of the 70th week? And what is determined to be poured upon the desolate?

There are some who teach that Jesus Christ, the Messiah, confirmed the covenant with Israel. However, there is no evidence that Jesus confirmed any covenant with Israel. Also, there is certainly no evidence that Jesus anointed the Most Holy, restored the kingdom of Israel at that time, took away ungodliness from Jacob, or brought in everlasting righteousness. Quite the contrary is true. In reality, there is only one possible antecedent to the pronoun "he." That person is the prince described in the previous verse, the prince of the Roman Empire. Just as Titus was a prince of the Roman Empire, even so the Antichrist will be a prince of the revived Roman Empire. The dispensation of grace is not in view. It exists only as the times of the Gentiles referred to by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse.

The prophecy process from the cutting off of the Messiah and the destruction of Jerusalem that was to occur after the fulfillment of the 69th week leads right into the Tribulation period. Certainly, Titus made no covenant or treaty, nor confirmed any agreement with the Jews. He was the absolute victor. Titus did attempt to negotiate a cessation of hostilities with Josephus, but the Jews refused. The reason they refused to agree to a peace treaty was that until the very end they were expecting the Messiah to come and save them. This was also recorded by Josephus. The Messiah did not come because they did not cry out to God to send Jesus back. The Jews have yet to repent for killing the Messiah; they have not as a race been converted through faith in Jesus Christ as the Messiah; they have not as yet cried out to God to send Jesus back. Only when the Jews believe in Jesus and cry for Him to return will the Deliverer roar out of Zion; and all Israel will be saved.

As declared at the beginning of Daniel 9:27, the minute the prince of the revived Roman Empire affixes his signature to a treaty with the government of Israel, confirming the covenant, the 70th week will begin. Since 1948 there have been numerous attempts to bring peace between Israel and the surrounding Arab nations, but to date all such attempts have failed.

Now we notice in verse 27 that the treaty that will be entered into between Israel and the Antichrist will not be just any ordinary treaty. We are told it will be "the covenant." We understand that God confirmed many covenants with Israel, but when the Scriptures refer to "the covenant," there is only one covenant in consideration. It is the first covenant God made with Abraham-an agreement entered into between Abraham and God to the effect that the land of Palestine be given to the patriarch's seed for a future mighty nation, an everlasting inheritance (Gen. 12:1-2).

At this moment, the U.S. and Israel are trying once more to get the Arab nations to recognize Israel's right to exist as a nation on the land covered in God's covenant with Abraham. This in itself is an important sign that the 70th prophetic week of Daniel is about to begin, and the coming of Jesus Christ is even at the door. One day, soon, these peace negotiations will succeed. There will be a treaty between Israel and the Arab nations.

It is evident from the prophecies associated with the 70th week that once the Antichrist signs the covenant, Israel will receive the right to resume sacrificial worship on the Temple Mount. Jews from the tribes of Levi and descendants of Aaron are being trained in Temple worship today, so this could occur quite rapidly. But we read in Daniel 9:27 that in the middle of the week (the middle of the Tribulation) the man of sin will cause the sacrifice in the Temple to cease. The covenant is broken.

Matthew 24:15-21 reveals that when Antichrist stops the sacrifice, the Jews are to flee to the mountains; and we believe the place to which they will go will be Petra. According to Revelation 12:6,14, those Jews that escape will be hidden for 1,260 days, or a time, times, and a half a time. A "time" in Jewish reckoning was one year, from one Passover to the next. A "time" would be one year; "times"-two years; "half a time"-one-half a year.

The Antichrist will confirm the covenant in Israel with many. Not all the Jews will be deceived; some will oppose it. The Antichrist will not initiate this covenant; he will simply agree to honor the covenant God made with Abraham concerning the land of Canaan. The peace treaty confirming the covenant, which entails Israel's right to the land, will bold for 31/2 years. It appears from prophecy that the first 31/2 years of Daniel's 70th week will witness a turbulent political and religious world adjustment. These changes will lead up to the projection of the revived Roman Empire of Europe as a world power. The little horn ("horn" always stands for "unit of power" when used in Scripture) of this European federation will rise to a position of world leadership, and we are told that by peace he will deceive many. Paul indicates that all the world will be deceived by him.

The Abomination of Desolation by the Antichrist will usher in a period of 31/2 years of desolation. Gabriel informed Daniel that the last half of the 70th week will be a time of war, and the end will come with a flood. This will evidently not be a flood of water, but a flood of Tribulation judgments. It will not rain for the second half of the Tribulation; therefore, the flood is to be understood symbolically-a judgment of fire and desolation comparable to the destruction left by the flood of Noah's day.

From the book of Revelation we know that universal judgment will come, and the pale horse of death will claim hundreds of millions. The desolation the Antichrist will cause is mentioned in four places in Daniel and many places in other prophecies. For example, we read of this time in Ezekiel 29:10-12: "Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene (Aswan) even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years. And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years."

203 posted on 10/19/2011 4:26:00 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: roamer_1; Yehuda
Where are they?

Hiding in plain sight. Joseph was presumed to be long dead, yet he was the prime minister of Egypt. There's a reason that America is under assault by Ishmaelites, Edomites, Amalekites, the Erev Rav, and the native rabble who collectively seek to profane, rob, and destroy those who hold to the truths and values of the Founding Fathers.

There's a reason America is not like the other nations. It's the reason the above entities wish to cut her down to their base level, strip her bare, and steal her birthright blessings. Same reason they hate little Israel.

Most people get that while not every Jew resides in Eretz Israel, the land is the nation that represents the House of Judah. Yet try to explain that there is another nation, the grandest most blessed nation on the face of the earth, that represents the House of Joseph/Ephraim, and the lost-tribes-cult accusations start flying. Yet America's enemies sure seem to have an innate sense that America and Israel are one enemy.

The combined houses are the force that will be able to destroy Esau, so no wonder the intensity of the mocking. It also goes a long way in explaining why supposed prophetic knowledge and insight generates much noise and breathless anticipation, but reveals nothing. Esau's vast religious empire is about to go up in flames. It's not a beit sefer (school), it's a beit sheqer (house of lies).

Obadiah 1.18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

204 posted on 10/19/2011 6:18:05 PM PDT by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
If God has put an allegory in the Bible, He did it for a reason. He never anywhere at any time authorized man to change the clear, literal meaning of Scripture.

I almost agree with this sentence except for the word “clear.”

Tell me what God said about it. Does the passage indicate that what Joseph did was prophetic?

History is prophetic and Joseph is a good place to start. But first:
Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
God has hidden things and he intends for us to find them. He did not tell us where to look or even what it is we will find, only that there is honor to search. Not just a few things but enough to last a lifetime. You will lock yourself out of a large portion of God’s blessings if you refuse to look.

You will do well to challenge me. Lets take the sword of the spirit together and practice using it.

The events of the life Joseph remind us of Christ so much that we say he is a type of Christ. As with any analogy, there are similarities and differences. Joseph was beloved of the father, rejected by his brothers, death in symbol only, rose to second in command over Egypt, and took a gentile bride.

Some events have not happened yet, in particular the seven years of plenty and the seven years of famine. Scripture uses the physical things to explain spiritual things, so I think we will be looking for a spiritual famine. (Amos 8:11)

It was famine that drove Josephs brothers to Egypt for food. They were not looking for Joseph nor did they recognize him at first. What an event it must have been when he said to them “I am Joseph.” I believe that God has orchestrated such an event to bring Israel to Christ during the Tribulation.

There are two things that occur here if you are trying to fit this into prophecy, will there be seven years of plenty and the fact that this event happened two years into the seven year famine.
205 posted on 10/19/2011 10:13:10 PM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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To: Ezekiel; Yehuda
Hiding in plain sight. Joseph was presumed to be long dead, yet he was the prime minister of Egypt. There's a reason that America is under assault by Ishmaelites, Edomites, Amalekites, the Erev Rav, and the native rabble who collectively seek to profane, rob, and destroy those who hold to the truths and values of the Founding Fathers.

Manifest Destiny in a way that no one understands, evidently. There is no doubt in my mind that YHWH Himself ordained the rise and purpose of these states. It causes me to weep that she is being overrun by jackals and hyenas.

Most people get that while not every Jew resides in Eretz Israel, the land is the nation that represents the House of Judah. Yet try to explain that there is another nation, the grandest most blessed nation on the face of the earth, that represents the House of Joseph/Ephraim, and the lost-tribes-cult accusations start flying. Yet America's enemies sure seem to have an innate sense that America and Israel are one enemy.

I pretty well agree with all of that. I adhere pretty closely to what the Bible has to say, and I study the prophets vociferously. If one is to believe YHWH (and I DO), this key element cannot be denied, at least in concept. I have bumped into 'lost tribe cult' stuff myself along the way, but rejected the focus thereof. Still, there is something there, a pearl in the midst of the oyster. That pearl is what I have been worrying out, long before I ever ran into any cult, because it comes straight out of the Word. I am not committed to the idea that one can name the US (though I lean toward Manasseh in my research... no matter, still Joseph), But by the prophets, and by evident history, one can certainly narrow it down to a few choices in the far west. The earthly 'sides of the north'. I dare say you and I are in agreement on many things.

But what the scoffers don't understand is that there is a curse that goes along with this thing - That YHWH has declared that even though Ephraim is numbered as the sands of the sea, He will make Ephraim as rare as the gold of Ophir, so any thought of a braggadocios position would need rethinking. If we are a part of the tribes, then there are terrible times coming. And I do think there must be more than us. All of the tribes have a part in the time of the end - and they are all identified as being present (though Dan is a mystery)... Beginning in Genesis 49, where Jacob relates what will befall the tribes in the last days.

The combined houses are the force that will be able to destroy Esau, so no wonder the intensity of the mocking. It also goes a long way in explaining why supposed prophetic knowledge and insight generates much noise and breathless anticipation, but reveals nothing. Esau's vast religious empire is about to go up in flames. It's not a beit sefer (school), it's a beit sheqer (house of lies).

I agree wholeheartedly. It is written. Odd that He will fill the bow of Judah with the arrows of Ephraim... Ephraim has always been described as the bowman... curious isn't it?

But there is more - study the term 'well with no water' (Joseph was thrown therein). It figures later in prophecy (Zec or Zeph IIRC)... There is going to be a betrayal among Joseph's brothers, and if I am right, Judah and Joseph will both be heading into captivity (again, a bitter thing if we are of Joseph). They are saved out of it, by the skin of their teeth (guess who). it is after this (this being tied to YHWH's declaration that they should return to the Fortress) that YHWH goes before them in the clouds as in ancient days... and I think this is the moment when the two sticks are finally joined. While I think the war of Magog is the next 'big thing', it is the joining of Ephraim and Judah that will reveal many things, not the least of which is a revelation of truth for and to them both.

...And as a side note, it is an interesting parallel that the 12th Mahdi (You may know him better as Appollyon. Abaddon) is supposedly hiding in a 'well with no water'... Not betting upon the profane, just sayin there is a linkage.

Good night, if you are still up. I won't see your reply until tomorrow.

206 posted on 10/20/2011 12:23:40 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1; Yehuda
The irony of the identity movement is that they exemplify the "lost" in "lost tribes". They've identified themselves, but not in the way they think they have.

Meanwhile, Ahab and Jezebel have taken up residence in the White House, profaning and defiling our hallowed place of national dignity and honored traditions. Indeed, an obamanation of desolation, standing where it ought not. They kick off their shoes and plop their dirty feet on the furniture, and host parties with hiphop thugs. It's spiritually no different than Belshezzar partying and boozing it up with the palace sycophants, all happily chugging from the holy temple vessels.

To make the symbolism come full circle, Stevie Wonder sang "very superstitious, writing's on the wall" at the WH inaugural bash. Here's a video (not sure which event this one is, but it's at the White Hut).

For some reason, America is the target nation for this lawless destroyer usurper. To destroy the head of Joseph (the US) is to finish off the House of Israel before they figure out who they are. Obama and his vast locust swarm of desolators are in a big hurry.

Dark days ahead.


Ephraim = double ash heap

Yet five days before the inauguration of desolation, there was this scene (again in diaspora central):


On the 15th day of the first month, the people were torn from the heavens, yet were lifted up on an eagle's wings, and carried across the river.

That's just not something you see every day.

Another interesting thing is that Gilad Shalit was released after 1941 days (if that were a year it would be 70 years), on the day of Sukkot that Joseph is the honored guest.

207 posted on 10/20/2011 5:14:46 AM PDT by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: Seven_0
I almost agree with this sentence except for the word “clear.”

Actually, the word "clear" is very appropriate. Unless a Biblical text indicates that something is allegorical or symbolic, it is to be taken literally.

Take the example I gave of a literal, one thousand year kingdom where Christ rules and reigns. Not only is there no indication in that text that the Millennial Kingdom is to be taken as anything other than literal, the Old Testament is full of specific details about Christ's literal Millennial Reign.

When God gives no sign that a passage is symbolic, and in those passages that are symbolic it is always symbolism that He has written, not something that is plain, clear language that a man at some point in time didn't like so he changed the meaning of the Scripture, then and only then are we to read the symbolic passage symbolically.

God has hidden things and he intends for us to find them. He did not tell us where to look or even what it is we will find, only that there is honor to search. Not just a few things but enough to last a lifetime. You will lock yourself out of a large portion of God’s blessings if you refuse to look.

"Looking for hidden things" is all well and good, but nowhere does God tell us to take it upon ourselves to change His Scripture while we're "looking for the hidden things". "Looking for the hidden things" is not a signal for fallen man to go through the Bible, find something that he doesn't immediately understand, and instead of continuing to study and search, go ahead and allegorize what he doesn't understand into something that he wishes that God had written instead of what He did write.

As for Amos 8, Amos was a contemporary of Isaiah. Though he was primarily sent to warn the Northern Kingdom, it’s easy to see the fulfillment of Amos 8:9 in the day on which Jesus was crucified. Verse 10 was partially fulfilled by the believers who mourned the Lord’s death on that Passover, but its ultimate fulfillment is confirmed by Zechariah 12:10-14. Just before the 2nd Coming, the entire nation will mourn over the realization of what their ancestors allowed to happen. Amos 8:11 is often quoted in connection with the End times saying that the anti-Christ will attempt to remove any reference to God and His word from Earth.

You will only see the spiritual famine of Amos 8:11 if you miss the Rapture.

208 posted on 10/20/2011 2:36:47 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking... (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Actually, the word "clear" is very appropriate. Unless a Biblical text indicates that something is allegorical or symbolic, it is to be taken literally.

How many events in Joseph’s life that are parallel to the life of Christ do you need to take notice? I am aware that the Bible is inspired and I do not try to change the meaning. God is careful in these matters and every word that he has given us is profitable

Since you want authorization, lets look at another example:
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Here it is plain that Adam is a figure of Christ. Roman 5 points out a number of similarities and differences but lets go to Genesis 2-4. The next two verses will associate Eve with the church.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:31-32 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
The wording here connects the two passages. Eve was created in Adam even as we are created in Christ (Ep 2:10). Adam chose to die with Eve rather that live without her. Is this a coincidence?

Another example from scripture: “God is light.” We know that light is a trinity. In the middle of the electromagnetic spectrum is the visible light which is Christ, That part of light which we can see with our eyes.
Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
Lets just deal with the allegories that are authorized by scripture. You will be surprised how many of them there are.

Take the example I gave of a literal, one thousand year kingdom where Christ rules and reigns. Not only is there no indication in that text that the Millennial Kingdom is to be taken as anything other than literal, the Old Testament is full of specific details about Christ's literal Millennial Reign.

I accept the literal interpretation of the one thousand year millennium, but numbers in scripture also have meaning. The numerical structure of scripture is awesome.

You will only see the spiritual famine of Amos 8:11 if you miss the Rapture.

Israel will see it. If Israel were converted to Christ before the rapture, she would be taken
209 posted on 10/20/2011 11:28:14 PM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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To: marbren

NO.

and this envy of anything Jewish is about silly as allgetout

nobody talked that junk when I was a kid once

if I was a Jew watching Christians wax on and on

I’d watch out...like a Virgin at a Pagan BBQ oughta


210 posted on 10/20/2011 11:32:06 PM PDT by wardaddy (Nothing lasts forever.....that is evident)
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To: yldstrk

a footpath to relativism


211 posted on 10/20/2011 11:34:16 PM PDT by wardaddy (Nothing lasts forever.....that is evident)
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To: wardaddy

Jews are indeed watching, and do feel like virgins at a pagan BBQ in places like FR. Perhaps leftist Jew-hate is just political while religious Jew-hate is far more frightening.


212 posted on 10/21/2011 3:52:18 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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