Posted on 10/23/2011 4:30:28 PM PDT by freejohn
I hope that it's okay to post this in the Religion forum!?
I have been thinking about this for quite some time now and have come to my own conclusion and that is .. GOD HAS TO EXIST and not only does he exist .. He is the main argument Against the now popular 'Multi-verse' scenario!
Scientists from many different areas are pondering an infinite number of universes to explain our existence.
They talk about 'string theories' and 'infinite universes' where anything and everything can and does exist!
An example may be that in one universe, I am alive but in another I never was.
In one universe, I am a doctor while in others I may be a lawyer or an Indian Chief while in THIS one .. I'm just another 'smuck'! *)
IF the multi-verse theory were correct then GOD would HAVE to exist simply because 'Scientists' say ALL things MUST take place in 'Infinite Universes'!
Now .. Wouldn't it make sense that if GOD were to exist in even one of these universes then NONE of the rest of those universes could or would exist!?
GOD is a GOD of ORDER and Not a GOD of DISORDER so-o-o .. HOW could such a chaotic universe or in this case Chaotic Universes exist!?
I believe that Science has backed itself into a hole on this one!
(or maybe just created another paradox?)
What do you think?
If you were able to get beyond the multi-use of the word 'exist' in my ramblings .. I would Really like you Scientific and Religious thinkers input on this! 8)
Norman Geistler Turek wrote, “I Don’t Have Enough Faith to be An Atheist”. It is an excellent starting point.
Why?
Holy writ states that we are in God. How that works out physically im not sure but I know that the answer will reflect that truth.
Wow .. You've gone way beyond my pay grade on this one.
My GOD would Have to exist in ALL universes simply because he is or was the creator.
I can only go on what the Bible has to say and that is .. God is the beginning and the end of ALL things .. whether in the Heavens or upon the Earth!?.
You want to argue semantics?
Thank You reasonisfaith!
Your posting name, Really Does suit you! 8)
I believe you’re superimposing our astonishingly limited understanding of existence on Gods ability to see order in infinite chaos.
In other words, our minds couldn’t track all the atoms in one drop of water, whereas an infinitely knowing God would see order in all the atoms of every drop of water on Earth.
One day a physics student who is studyimg solar activity asks
THE QUESTION.
Stars are lossing their fuel and the universe is shutting down one star at a time. The student asks. "Can entropy be reversed?
Multivac transports humanity to a parallel universes as the last of the suns in our universe blinks out. Multivac ponders this question for the longest time and then finally he peeked back into this universe and says
LET THERE BE LIGHT!
To the past, as shown by both the General and Special Theories of Relativity.
In a multi-universe scenario, the different universes could be all around you and you wouldn’t know it, because our 3-D brains cannot process 4-D images or anything.
Read one of Michio Kaku books on the subject, he would explain it in a way that’s easy for an average person to grasp.
I would count on time travel with some certainty. How is God able to prophesy and predict the future not just hundreds of years but millennium with accuracy? God is not boxed in by time or space or science, He is the Author of it. Time will have no meaning in Heaven once the judgement is executed.
Must I Google the word? LOL
Just kidding my friend.
I would say that "On my street are many mansions" but that would not leave a door open for many universes!?
Since any “verse” would be a result of God’s creation, then God will always be the Creator of those things, so He would always be above all....not a part of any created order.
FJ,
How ‘bout y’all invest in a basic education in fundamental logic techniques. There you will encounter the concept of ‘logical fallacies’ and how they corrupt our thinking and the products thereof.
You have just provided a splendid example of
Begging the Question / Circular Reasoning
An argument is circular if its conclusion is among its premises, if it assumes (either explicitly or not) what it is trying to prove. Such arguments are said to beg the question. A circular argument fails as a proof because it will only be judged to be sound by those who already accept its conclusion.
Anyone who rejects the argument’s conclusion should also reject at least one of its premises (the one that is the same as its conclusion), and so should reject the argument as a whole. Anyone who accepts all of the argument’s premises already accepts the argument’s conclusion, so can’t be said to have been persuaded by the argument. In neither case, then, will the argument be successful.
For example —
(1) The Bible affirms that it is inerrant.
(2) Whatever the Bible says is true.
Therefore:
(3) The Bible is inerrant.
In case you missed it, your argument consists of —
Within an infinity of Universes, ANYTHING that CAN exist WILL exist.
GOD must exist somewhere within such an infinity of Universes.
If GOD exists anywhere, “ ... then NONE of the rest of those universes could or would exist!?”
St. Anselmo’s proof that God exists depended upon accepting the premise ‘God is Perfect’ and concluding ( after appropriate hand-waving ) that He could not be ‘perfect’ if He did NOT exist, therefore He MUST exist. See the fallacy at work here ?
St. Thomas Aquinas’s proofs ( there are many ) go something like this:
In the Universe, all things that exist are the product of other things that already existed. This progression cannot continue infinitely as there most be SOMETHING that existed as the first producer of whatever came next. This first producer ( ‘first cause’ ) we have all agreed to call ‘God’. Do you see the fallacy operating here ?
This form of the argument is grossly simplified. If you insist on more elaborate forms, they are easy to find.
In any case, your presentation does not rate a passing grade in terms of logic. I will refrain from passing judgement on the theological motivations that produced it — Coach always said ‘Piling-on don’t prove nothin’ except your lack of sportsmanship.’
One Man’s Opinion
21stCenturion
The Bible was written to be understood by all, including people with absolutely zero formal education living two millennia ago.
Do you deep down believe that God created the universe in six days? Literally? 24 hour days? How do we know what a 'day' is to God?
You are getting into an area that becomes .. What can GOD do that Man can never do then.
I also know that there are some things that GOD cannot do.
Well science does, by inductive reasoning, agree that the universe had a beginning. That much science and theistic cosmology agree upon. The moment, just prior to the singularity,...that point in the history of the universe when time, space, energy and matter came to be....what caused it. Why would nothing suddenly create...it is not a scientific concept or a valid philosophical concept. To creeate everhything from nothing. Nothing exist at that time...science tells us....So, by inductive reasoning something, beyond time and space, some atemporal entity had to be the cause...had to make a personal decision to create from nothing...Creatio ex nihlo. To create 10 to the 78th power number of atoms calculated to exist in this universe....out of nothing....this is what Biblical scolars reference as the power of His Word. Creatio ex nihlo.
Since we don’t know the reason for our existence beyond the fact that we exist and God loves creating, it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that our purpose goes beyond our existence on this lonely little planet.
Perhaps we are to populate all these universes.
Spot on. As yet another exercise in sci-fi stated:
"Your odyssey shall know no end. You will prosper in new worlds, new galaxies. You will populate the deepest reaches of space."
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