Skip to comments.Mormon Doctrine on Shaking Hands With Spirits [The Other World Series]
Posted on 10/25/2011 6:55:29 AM PDT by Colofornian
SECTION 129 Doctrine and Covenants [One of 4 Mormon books of scripture] Instructions given by Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, February 9, 1843, making known three grand keys by which the correct nature of ministering angels and spirits may be distinguished...
13, There are both resurrected and spirit bodies in heaven; 49, Keys are given whereby messengers from beyond the veil may be identified.
1 THERE are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones
3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.
4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.
5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.
7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.
8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.
9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.
I remember hearing this as a kid and getting pretty nervous. My hell, I hope I don't have to use this. I won't be able to remember which is which. Plus, if a heavenly messenger comes, I want to hide, not do the handshake test to determine what actions to take.
It's hilarious if you think about it. They still really believe this stuff. Amazing
(Excerpt) Read more at exmormon.org ...
From the exMormon forum, citing Mormon "scripture" Doctrine & Covenants 129 and then commenting upon it: 4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you. 5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand...8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him. 9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God. I remember hearing this as a kid and getting pretty nervous. My hell, I hope I don't have to use this. I won't be able to remember which is which. Plus, if a heavenly messenger comes, I want to hide, not do the handshake test to determine what actions to take. It's hilarious if you think about it. They still really believe this stuff. Amazing
Smith taught that Satan had literal physical hands (D&C 124:10). Did Smith observe him to detect this firsthand?
Joseph Smith also offered another way to "distinguish" between a "good" angel and a "bad" one in a book published by Mormon leaders after his death.
There have also been ministering angels IN THE CHURCH which were OF SATAN appearing as an angel of light. [Note: Smith then went on to describe an entity appearing to a New York woman]
Smith continued: Many true things were spoken by this personage, and many things that were false. How, it may be asked, was this known to be a bad angel? By the color of his hair; that is one of the signs that he can be known by..." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Deseret News Press, 1938, pp. 214-215)
Whew! 'Tis good Smith had these "handshake" and hair-color discernments in place so he wouldn't get fooled about anything these entities were telling him!
Bottom-line, Smith had ZERO discernment on how to tell the difference between a demon masquerading as a ghost (Moroni), and a true angel.
As for Biblical discernment, test new revelations by old ones...not by hair color...not by handshakes with spirits -- as if they all had "shakeable" hands, anyway!
11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. (Acts 17:11)
As Johnny Carson would say, “that is some wild and crazy stuff.”
Mormon believers, you don't have much time left to leave the words of this conman and seek solace in the arms of Jesus.
Truly a noble endeavor.
What?!!! Mormons again?
“faith weakening again”
It is amazing that what are often direct quotes from lds leaders and “prophets” can be called faith weakening, in that actually seeing what lds “prophets” said may weaken the faith in them is I think not all that surprising
If you bought it somewhere else, your prayers will not be answered.
Doesn't Noah bear most of the blame here?
Absolutely, but I'm only in it for the chicks.
It is amazing that what are often direct quotes from lds leaders and prophets can be called faith weakening, in that actually seeing what lds prophets said may weaken the faith in them is I think not all that surprising
Yes, Bidimus. Laotzu and I actually seemingly (strangely) agree here: When Mormon "prophets" speak, yes, they weaken whatever residue genuine faith that might be present.
(Hence, he realizes we might not want to quote them)
I’m going to the grocery sometime today. When I get my candy corn, I’ll click back on this thread and read the Halloweenish refutations.
Yeah. I'll bet if we employ all those FREEPERS who like to psychoanalyze complete strangers, they might come up with the following for Laotzu:
Word origin of word giraffe: French girafe and Italian giraffa is said to be a corruption of Arabic zirafah, although the term is meaningless in Arabic too... (http://www.edenics.net/english-word-origins.aspx?word=GIRAFFE)
Therefore, the "giraffe" is symbolic for Laotzu's religious void and meaninglessness in his life.
With your help, we can show the shame and vengeance this original Mormon has brought onto us all.
God bless. Keep fighting the good fight.
“Therefore, the “giraffe” is symbolic for Laotzu’s religious void and meaninglessness in his life.”
According to Laotzu’s post #12, his cult provides access to “chicks” - which is more than many the members of most other religions and cults can say.
Godzilla thought it'd be a good idea if we had a "zombie thread resurrection for Halloween" re: this link.
Fiction again ?
I'll pull out the original documentation in a follow-up post (from E.D. HOwe's Mormonism Unvailed, a book I have, p. 187)... but Joseph Smith said that the devil once "appeared to him in the same form" as an angel had once told Mormon apostate Ezra Booth.
Booth said that the angel came "as having the appearance of a 'tall, slim, well built, handsome man, with a bright pillar upon his head.'" The devil then supposedly appeared to Smith "in the same form, excepting upon his head he hada 'black pillar,' and by this mark he was able to distinguish him from the former."
So Smith claimed another distinguishing mark was the color of the pillar (bright vs. black).
It's interesting that Smith apparently conceded the devil appeared to him. All it would have taken was a Gal. 1 "angel of light" proclaiming another gospel -- and obviously Smith was easily taken in.
"No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. " Also Acts 2:34 (NKJV):
"For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool." ' "
THERE IS NO ONE IN HEAVEN ONLY GOD AND HIS ANGLES
What the OP said?
I’m not getting the Giraffe-Mormon connection. I mean, aren’t giraffes among the most harmless animals on the planet?
And howcum there aren’t any crosses on the Mormon temples? What is the sacrifice of Jesus without His cross?
And the things J. Smith & his successors said about the Catholic Church! Yeah, I’m Catholic and a drunk as most Catholics are, but why the teetotallers’ hatred of the whole lot of us who daily pray toward Rome?
In my Church we believe this:
“Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it”
You are thinking about the evangelicals and pentecostals who subjugate women. That was a funny cartoon you posted of an evangelical pastor getting off on spanking his wife. Ha ha. When I belonged to Faith, Hope & Love Church in Issaquah WA, we were taught to obey our husbands and that our husbands should have the final say on the big decisions. That was just one of the things I questioned.
I love my Church; I love my Savior Jesus Christ who is my Advocate with the Father. I am thankful every day that some mere human is not my judge. Whew!
P.S. I also attended Kentwood Family Church in Kent WA for a time (Pentecostal Church of God) and one of the brothers accused us women of making him sin because of our clothing.
Again, the evil goofy man in your cartoon is an evangelical or a pentecostal - not a Mormon.
Offer up your prayers to St Gerry for just 10 days. You will be glad you did.
Right.......... And you can't get to the celestial kingdom unless your husband calls you and then the good part, you'll be popping out celestial babies for eternity. You know if you read the bible, it specifically states that nobody will be married in heaven, let alone be a breeding factory for their husband.........
You love your church above Jesus? That's telling.
P.S. I also attended Kentwood Family Church in Kent WA
You're a mormon and you've attended other churches before, tell me, of all the places you've attended, which group talked more about Jesus? Which sang more praises to Jesus. And which devoted more time to a false prophet?
Sandy, you should only put your faith in Jesus. He should be the focus of everything you do. If the churches you've attended didn't follow scripture, leave. But you've put your faith in men instead of Christ.
If you really love Jesus ... read the bible and compare it, word for word with the works and statements of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
Apostle Paul spelled it out perfectly in Gal 1 6-9. Read that and pray.
No Other Gospel
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under Gods curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under Gods curse!
That should be a huge clue to Mormons that they are a cult when they put their “church” above everything else. God help them.
Of course you forget how your mormon prophets and apostles treated women like cattle during the days of polygamy.
The Role of Women in Mormonism - Very troubling.
1. There is no place in the hierarchy for women in the Mormon Church. All women serve under the men. They can never officiate in any ordinance or assist in any way. They cannot even hold their own baby to give it a name and a blessing.
2. No real redress - They have no real voice or redress if it conflicts with a man in authority. Just try it and find out. They might talk big about it, but in reality, it does not exist. Even getting an apology, or acceptance of responsibility from a male is almost always impossible, if a female has been wronged in any way.
3. Secondary to men and even young boys - The position of women in the church is as a "help meet" and and a lot of lip service is given to women's greater "spirituality" However, the fact of the matter is that her son as early as when he becomes an aaronic priest has the headship over his mom.
4. Obedience to men never women - In theory the teachings/doctrine makes a grand attempt to make women equal to men.
Women are to obey the Lord (obedience is the first law of heaven and earth),obey the Priesthood leadership, obey their husbands as they are the Priesthood holders, and obey male leadership in the home (which, technically can be a 12 year old Deacon- on up), etc.
Now to the crux of the matter: the doctrine of obedience is a higher doctrine than equality. Love, in Mormonism is conditional, based on obedience.
Women are not just second class in Mormonism, they are technically third class -- below the Aaronic Priesthood, which is often their sons!
5. Polygamy as a law of heaven is demeaning - Polygamy is seen as the worse disrespect of women and children and feeds into making women obedient, brood-mare slaves.
6. Role of women as mothers - Women are to be the mothers and the men are are to officiate in the priesthood. They are told that this is how Heavenly Father wants it. There is some lip service given to the notion that women are "more spiritual" than men and often given some level of appreciation for their "worthiness" by the leaders.
7. Men must give approval for a woman to have a "calling" - A woman's husband or father is consulted first before a calling is extended to a female.
8.Confession by females to males - A female is commanded to confess her sins and transgressions to a male - husband, bishop,stake presidency, regional representatives, etc, never the other way around.
And since you like to cite Hinkley SD heres one - "Women have their place," [President of the Mormon Church Gordon B. Hinckley] said. "When all is said and done, there's no substitute for having a woman in the home. . . . If you ask our women, you'll find them happy with what they have. They're not out yelling and chanting." Gordon B. Hinckley: March of 1997 the San Francisco Chronicle.
This Baptist knows that you are my sister in Christ. God Bless.
Saundra, we know the domestic violence rate in the Salt Lake City region (55% Mormon) is high.
We know that even in Provo, manipulation of women goes on at a high rate...especially from younger Mormon males.
You don't have to take my word for it; it's an open tale told by BYU profs even in the books they write.
BYU prof was talking about the Mormon doctrine of "personal revelation" in his book Following Christ published by your Mormon church under Deseret Book (1995). Here's what he had to say about Mormon male manipulation:
"I encounter another form of this snare almost every year at BYU. I am regularly approached by some student (male or female, though the majority are female) with the following story: 'Brother Robinson, my boyfriend (or girlfriend, as the case may be) is a returned missionary, and he has a revelation that I am supposed to marry him. I'm not really in love with this person, but should I marry him anyway? I don't want to disobey the Lord.'" (p. 103)
Robinson concluded that "This is someone who is trying to use your religion to manipulate and control you...The Saints need to become more sophisticated in detecting spiritual snake-oil dealers." (p. 104)
While Robinson is right on this count, he utterly fails in the book to identify the root of the problem here. You see, once you have a spiritual snake-oil salesman like Joseph Smith con dozens of women into marrying him, including 11 women already married and cohabitating with their husbands, and once you have Smith injecting this doctrine of open revelation, then the precedent tends to be set. Almost anything goes.
Mormons are always telling other Mormons the Lord this, and the Lord that. Manipulating them so they'll hand over investment $...two more headlines just in less than a week this past week re: more Mormon financial swindlers.
This BYU prof's bottom line conclusion? "For me, one of Elder Delbert L. Stapleys' more memorable observations, and one of my favorite quotations from general authorities, was 'The Saints are suckers.' Many of the Saints are indeed suckers...unfortunately, we will be held accountable for allowing ourselves to be deceived. After all, we have been explicitly forewarned." (pp. 104, 113)
You've been "forewarned" Saundra. Over and over and over again. You've been manipulated. Suckered. Duped. Peddled an alien form of religion. Masterminded by the enemies of darkness.
Even your BYU professors recognize some of this: "The Saints need to become more sophisticated in detecting spiritual snake-oil dealers. Whether they're peddling marriage or plural marriage or revelations or books or politics or special doctrines or special diets or herbs and vitamins or the 'original' Greek (or Hebrew) or financial advice or 'LDS' investments or whatever--if they are using religion to help sell their product or point of view, then they represent the cunning snares of Satan."
It's been pointed out countless times on these sites (by Godzilla) how Smith tried to originally sell off the rights to the Book of Mormon in Canada for pure cash flow reasons.
The sister-in-law (Abigail Harris) of one of the alleged three Book of Mormon witnesses, Martin Harris -- the wife of a Quaker minister -- filled out a sworn affidavit Nov. 28, 1833. She recounted how Martin Harris and his wife was visiting her home, where they discussed the "Mormonites." Abigail in her affidavit related how Martin Harris' wife wanted Martin tio quite Mormonism 'cause "she believed it was all false and a delusion."
Abigail was shocked by Martin Harris' reply: "What if it is a lie; if you will let alone I will make money out of it!" Abigail closed her affidavit by relating: "I was both an eye and an ear witness of what has been stated above, which is now fresh in my memory, and I give it to the world for the good of mankind. I speak truth and lie not, God bearing me witness."
Lucy Harris, Martin's wife, corroborated the claim in her Nov. 29, 1833 statement, saying that she was "realizing that I must give an account at the bar of God for what I say." (Mormonism Unvailed, by E.D. Howe, Zanesville, Ohio, 1834)
In my Church we believe this:
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it
So what does that mean ???
BTW Got ladder ???
I’ve had this problem with atheists that when they’ve known Christians who sin they think the religion is flawed or that they’ve went to a church and the experience was awful so they believe there must not be a God...
Some people think once they step through the doors of a certain church or faith, sin magically disappears from their life...that everything in their life should be perfect.... if it doesn’t they internalize it as either the religion’s fault or their own.
The truth is we all have sin, and we will continue to sin. There is no temple or church that will take that away, only Jesus. There are no ritual that we can preform, no amount of church retreats or outings that will take that away. We are to be dependent only in Christ.
The problem with Mormonism is that they work to remove Christ’s importance in our lives by placing silly ceremonies in temples as the ultimate goal to work for. The more the Mormons do for the church, the less they do for Christ because he is not found in temple achievements. And working towards being temple worthy doesn’t remove sin from your life. Being sealed in a temple won’t bring about a celestial marriage. If that were true, Jesus would have taught his followers and the Apostles would have preached it.
What I don’t understand is why so many Mormons hold unto the belief that their temple rituals will save them when it isn’t in the bible?
If Mormons are the “true church” surely there would be unity between the bible and the mormon teachings. The Apostle Paul would not have warned so many of the coming prophets who would pervert the gospel. There would be evidence that the Lamanites and Nephites existed and most of all, the LDS leaders would not have to keep editing the Mormon message.
If you notice, several mormons who post here will put “church” first over Jesus.