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Mormons worship a different jesus
Ogden Standard-Examiner ^ | Oct. 19, 2011 | Betsy Harvey

Posted on 10/29/2011 6:37:27 AM PDT by Colofornian

This is in response to "People should learn about Mormons before criticizing." This is absolutely true and I have done just that. I am a Christian and have many Mormon friends, family and neighbors that I choose to love in spite of our differences. Just because Jesus Christ's name is on the church doesn't mean it's the same Jesus I worship. Gordon B. Hinckley, on June 6, 1998, in Geneva, Switzerland had stated that Mormons do not believe in the traditional Christ. They believe that Jesus is our elder brother.

Brigham Young stated on Feb. 8,1857 that the god of "this" world had sexual relations with Mary and fathered Jesus.

Traditional Christians have been criticized for centuries for their beliefs, so Mormons must accept the fact that they worship a different Jesus. I suggest they read the Bible and see the difference. Read Isaiah 14:14. In this country we have religious freedom to believe in many gods, no god or Yahweh (the everlasting God).

Betsy Harvey

North Ogden


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Other non-Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: anotherjesus; inman; lds; mormon; worship
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If you go back to the last 25 years of the 20th century into the beginnings of the 21st century -- per official Mormon publications -- they actually agreed with this distinction:

Lds "prophet" Gordon B. Hinckley: “There are those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.” (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998)

Hinckley again: As a Church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say. Our faith, our knowledge is not based on ancient tradition, the creeds which came of a finite understanding and out of the almost infinite discussions of men trying to arrive at a definition of the risen Christ. Our faith, our knowledge comes of the witness of a prophet in this dispensation who saw before him the great God of the universe and His Beloved Son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. ("We Look to Christ", from April 2002 General Conference.)

“It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons.” – LDS publication, Ensign Magazine, May 1977, p. 26

"And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.269).

So the Mormon official publications say they worship a different Christ...
The Mormon "prophet" said they speak about, believe and acknowledge a different Christ...
Most Christians say they worship, speak of and trust another Jesus...

So. We are seemingly on the same page...so why the few stragglers who are out of harmony???

1 posted on 10/29/2011 6:37:29 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

I read Ecclesiastes the morning.

Highly recommended.


2 posted on 10/29/2011 6:43:09 AM PDT by Eddie01
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To: Colofornian

Why does anyone care about how someone else worships? Who cares what the Mormons do or the Catholics or Protestants or Episcapalans or Luthrans etc... Everyone should worship as they see fit and the rest of us should mind our own business.

Religion is a very private and personal matter. It matters not to me how anyone worships. If that is their belief then so be it. Everyone to their own comfort zones.

I am Catholic and believe in God. I always have been and always will be. It is MY business. If someone doesn’t like that fact...then they should just butt out. Plain and Simple.

Sorry for the rant but I’m so sick of everyone butting into other people’s lives...we have enough of that with the government who also need to butt out.


3 posted on 10/29/2011 6:54:19 AM PDT by cubreporter (Rush Limbaugh... where would our country be without this brilliant man?)
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To: Colofornian

Why does anyone care about how someone else worships? Who cares what the Mormons do or the Catholics or Protestants or Episcapalans or Luthrans etc... Everyone should worship as they see fit and the rest of us should mind our own business.

Religion is a very private and personal matter. It matters not to me how anyone worships. If that is their belief then so be it. Everyone to their own comfort zones.

I am Catholic and believe in God. I always have been and always will be. It is MY business. If someone doesn’t like that fact...then they should just butt out. Plain and Simple.

Sorry for the rant but I’m so sick of everyone butting into other people’s lives...we have enough of that with the government who also need to butt out.


4 posted on 10/29/2011 6:54:19 AM PDT by cubreporter (Rush Limbaugh... where would our country be without this brilliant man?)
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To: cubreporter
Why does anyone care about how someone else worships?

Because I'm right and everyone else is wrong, don'tcha know? Hahaha I can sit an a pew (any pew) and be pretty sure there are people all around me who don't worship the "same" as me... which is why I don't much bother with pews any more. But when I see divisive nonsense statements like these, I just say, "Peeeeee - you". ;-)

5 posted on 10/29/2011 7:01:54 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: Colofornian

“Mormons worship a different jesus”

Yes, I believe that to be true from what I have read about the religion.


6 posted on 10/29/2011 7:03:01 AM PDT by Grunthor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0heL2Czeraw)
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To: Colofornian
This is in response to "People should learn about Mormons before criticizing."

Yup. That sounds like VERY good advice!


 

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses  5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses  8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses  8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses  10:230).
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses , vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

7 posted on 10/29/2011 7:03:50 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian

i am sick of so called “Mormon” issue - i am interested in how people act, not Whom/what they worship. many call themselves “Christian” and do not act like it. i am more interested in the government getting out of the way of business so the economy can recover. that is an issue well worth debating.


8 posted on 10/29/2011 7:04:49 AM PDT by avital2
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To: cubreporter
Sorry for the rant but I’m so sick of everyone butting into other people’s lives...

Yeah...

That's just TERRIBLE when it happens!


 
Matthew 15:16
   "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

Matthew 23
 
  1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
  2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
  3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
  5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
  6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
  7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
  8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
  9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.
 12.  For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 
 14.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 
 15.   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
 


Mark 7:26-27
 26.  The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
 27.  "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
 

And St. Paul chimes in...

Galatians 5:12
   As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
 


9 posted on 10/29/2011 7:05:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian

I know some Baptists who believe Jesus isn’t the Son of God therefore Baptists don’t believe Jesus is the Son of God.

The United Methodist Church has an official pro-life position therefore Methodists are pro-life.


10 posted on 10/29/2011 7:05:16 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: cubreporter

“Why does anyone care about how someone else worships?”

I understand the question. I have voiced it myself from time to time and I can tell you that I do not care how or what mormons worship.

It is the unfortunate fact that they keep referring to themselves as “Christian” when they clearly are not “Christian” any more that a Buddhist is.


11 posted on 10/29/2011 7:05:19 AM PDT by Grunthor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0heL2Czeraw)
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To: rhombus
But when I see divisive nonsense statements like these, I just say, "Peeeeee - you". ;-)

I know exACTly what you mean!!


 
Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?
 
Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
 
 
 
 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.



12 posted on 10/29/2011 7:06:11 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: cubreporter; Colofornian

I’m suprised you are Catholic and believe that way.
It matters because Mormons bring forth a different Jesus and different Gospel than the Jesus that Christians worship ( Catholic and Trinitarian Protestants ) They are leading souls astray every day, and we should all care about that.


13 posted on 10/29/2011 7:07:08 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: avital2
i am sick of so called “Mormon” issue

Here's a simple solution...just ignore any thread that has "mormon" in its title.

If you think you're sick of the mormon issue now, if Romney gets the nomination you will be REALLY sick of seeing it from the liberal press.

52,000 missionaries are sent out daily by the mormon church to tell Christians that their Christian faith is bogus...we Christians are pretty sick of that too.

14 posted on 10/29/2011 7:08:29 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (If other churches were dead dunking mormons to save them mormons would be furious.)
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To: Elsie

Feel better? I hope so.


15 posted on 10/29/2011 7:09:37 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: Colofornian

The Old Testament Jews were looking forward to a Messiah. When Christ came as that true Messiah/Savior, they condemned Him essentially as a false pretender. Was He different from the “orthodox” mainstream view in that culture of what He was “supposed” to be? Yup; and that was because the devout Jews’ traditional view and expectations had been modifed and altered from truth over the centuries. The traditional understanding of the Messiah, then as in our day, had strayed from the truth in important ways.

Even good men such as Saul of Tarsus, steeped in the mainstream religious thinking of his time, were zealously persecuting the Messiah even while, as they supposed, they were acting in His service.

No matter how emphatically and derisively mainstream Jewry rejected Christ then - or how energetically “mainstream” Christians reject Him and restored truths about Him now, reality about God stands independent of the philosophies and doctrines of man.

We are fortunate to live in circumstances where we are free to worship according to the dictates of our own consciences. You are free to persist relentlessly in your (fruitless) efforts to attack the Restored Church of Jesus Christ. My only suggestion to you is that you consider whether you, like Saul of old, may be “kick(ing) against the pricks.”


16 posted on 10/29/2011 7:13:40 AM PDT by JustTheTruth
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To: avital2
i am sick of so called “Mormon” issue - i am interested in how people act, not Whom/what they worship.

Shocking isn't it, people discussing religion, on the religion forum

17 posted on 10/29/2011 7:16:17 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Of course Obama loves his country but Herman Cain loves mine.)
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To: cubreporter

Very well put, cubreporter.
I agree.


18 posted on 10/29/2011 7:17:35 AM PDT by Verbosus (/* No Comment */)
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To: cubreporter
If it were just a matter of different beliefs about the recipe for a cake I'd agree with you. However Catholics and Other Christians think it is a matter of life and death and the Jesus told us it is our business to let someone on the wrong path know they are heading for the cliff of destruction. If we fail to tell them, their loss is on our head. If we tell them and they continue down the path they are lost, but we are held blameless. The Christian belief is that Jesus, God the Son, is the only way to Heaven. We want others to be in Heaven and thus we are commanded to point the correct way. Christians also believe that all we can do is the pointing but God the Holy Spirit alone opens the hearts and minds That is why we care not about how someone else worships but about just Who they worship. From Mormon doctrine we see that the one they worship is not the same God that promises salvation, but another entity they choose to call by the same name.
19 posted on 10/29/2011 7:20:10 AM PDT by cotton
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To: cotton
If we fail to tell them, their loss is on our head. If we tell them and they continue down the path they are lost, but we are held blameless

God made that point abundantly clear to Ezekiel.

20 posted on 10/29/2011 7:23:22 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Of course Obama loves his country but Herman Cain loves mine.)
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To: cubreporter
Sorry for the rant but I’m so sick of everyone butting into other people’s lives

You mean like when those young men in white shirts and ties ride their bikes to your house, introduce themselves as elders, and then try to get you to abandon your Catholicism? Back to the point of this thread - they aren't trying to convert you because you have the same Jesus they claim.

21 posted on 10/29/2011 7:23:38 AM PDT by CommerceComet (Governor Romney, why would any conservative vote for the author of the beta version of ObamaCare?)
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To: cubreporter
As a born again Christian, I have a responsibility to present the Truth.

I care a great deal about where you will spend eternity.

22 posted on 10/29/2011 7:24:44 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek (He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty Psalm 91:)
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To: cotton
If we fail to tell them, their loss is on our head. If we tell them and they continue down the path they are lost, but we are held blameless

As a Catholic or "Other Christian", when someone tells you that they think you might be on the wrong path (with or without Bible quotes), is it your duty to correct them or do you just smile, say you disagree and say "God bless"? Which path works best for you? (just curious, not challenging you).

23 posted on 10/29/2011 7:31:50 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: avital2
The MOST important issue in ones life is where they will spend eternity.

This is a RELIGION forum.

24 posted on 10/29/2011 7:32:23 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek (He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty Psalm 91:)
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To: cubreporter

Well said. Thank you.


25 posted on 10/29/2011 7:36:36 AM PDT by UncommonJudge (Captions on for the hearing impaired.)
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To: cotton
If it were just a matter of different beliefs about the recipe for a cake I'd agree with you. However Catholics and Other Christians think it is a matter of life and death and the Jesus told us it is our business to let someone on the wrong path know they are heading for the cliff of destruction. If we fail to tell them, their loss is on our head. If we tell them and they continue down the path they are lost, but we are held blameless. The Christian belief is that Jesus, God the Son, is the only way to Heaven. We want others to be in Heaven and thus we are commanded to point the correct way. Christians also believe that all we can do is the pointing but God the Holy Spirit alone opens the hearts and minds That is why we care not about how someone else worships but about just Who they worship. From Mormon doctrine we see that the one they worship is not the same God that promises salvation, but another entity they choose to call by the same name.

Excellent! Bears repeating.

26 posted on 10/29/2011 7:39:19 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (If other churches were dead dunking mormons to save them mormons would be furious.)
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To: JustTheTruth; Colofornian
You are free to persist relentlessly in your (fruitless) efforts to attack the Restored Church of Jesus Christ. My only suggestion to you is that you consider whether you, like Saul of old, may be “kick(ing) against the pricks.”

Paul was also very outspoken about false teachers and even if an angel presents another gospel contrary to his.

My suggestion is that Colo's has made that consideration

Was smith visited - no

Is the bom another testament - no

Is mormonism the 'restored' church - no, it is restored paganism

27 posted on 10/29/2011 7:44:00 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Colofornian

28 posted on 10/29/2011 7:46:19 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: JustTheTruth; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Zakeet; Tennessee Nana; aMorePerfectUnion; ..
No matter how emphatically and derisively mainstream Jewry rejected Christ then - or how energetically “mainstream” Christians reject Him and restored truths about Him now, reality about God stands independent of the philosophies and doctrines of man.

The reality is that anti-Christian claims like the above do not go over well on FreeRepublic.

"The traditional understanding of the Messiah, then as in our day, had strayed from the truth in important ways."...only in the minds of those who follow the conman Joseph Smith.

29 posted on 10/29/2011 7:50:31 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (If other churches were dead dunking mormons to save them mormons would be furious.)
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To: Colofornian

I think that as Christians seeking to evangelize, we should be concerned about another’s religious beliefs.

When that is not the issue, and we are engaged in the polis, the community, the everyday life of working with merchants, politicians, petty bureaucrats, neighbors, teachers, etc., our concern should be one of values.

While I find the Mormon statement of beliefs in conflict with Christianity, I find their values admirable.

So, I would not choose or allow a Mormon to be a spiritual leader. But, a community leader - yes.


30 posted on 10/29/2011 7:51:28 AM PDT by SuzyQue
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To: cubreporter

Don’t you get it? Religion becomes everyone’s political problem only when the candidate is a Republican.

Obama’s church doesn’t matter...see, he’s OBAMA, you know, The One, The Messiah.

Romney is a dirty Republican...HIS religion must be put under a microscope.


31 posted on 10/29/2011 7:53:28 AM PDT by kjo
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To: cubreporter
Why does anyone care about how someone else worships?

The Mormon issue is somewhat benign but I suspect you'll be singing a different tune when the Muslims, as they are doing in England, France and Scandinavia, begin to demand changes to our Constitution and legal system to accommodate their "religious practices".

32 posted on 10/29/2011 7:57:43 AM PDT by O6ret (for)
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To: cubreporter

Truth in advertising.


33 posted on 10/29/2011 8:01:05 AM PDT by DManA
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To: SuzyQue
So, I would not choose or allow a Mormon to be a spiritual leader. But, a community leader - yes.

Perhaps you would find a quick glimpse to be helpful of just what this "mormon community leader" believes and what mormon values are.

HAVE YOU NOTICED THIS ABOUT MORMONS?

34 posted on 10/29/2011 8:01:22 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (If other churches were dead dunking mormons to save them mormons would be furious.)
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To: JustTheTruth; Godzilla
Well, thank you for stating your opinion.

I'd rather have Lds like yourself state their views -- with some thought put into them like what you have offered -- than simply sulk or hurl invectives or judge motivations.

We are fortunate to live in circumstances where we are free to worship according to the dictates of our own consciences.

My Q back to you JTT...I know this is your 11th article of faith...and therefore you seemingly "have" to believe it...It's tantamount to a "creed..." But have you ever dissected what this means -- if thoroughly applied?

I mean, JusttheTruth, what if I took Smith's "civil" tolerant sounding statement and started applying it theologically?

What? Mormons believe that smoking peyote or something more -- if done under a religious conviction -- is a "privilege" unto man and that God sanctions people "worship[ing] how...or what...may"???

Would that include Manasseh & others engaging in child sacrifice in the OT?
Or what about prostitutes @ some of the pagan temples? This is a god who sanctions that as an endorsement to the point He's willing to build an "article of faith" around it? Wow! (Mormons are pretty liberal, after all)

So the next time a head-hunting, head-shrinker or voodoo thread comes up, should I say, "You Mormons be sure to peep up and 'bless' that with your 'article of faith' endorsement, too"??

You know, JTT, for some reason, the Mormon god contradicts the god of the Bible: "You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods." (Deut. 12:31)

So did you know that the 11th article of faith contradicts the Old Testament?

You know, I RARELY agree with Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie...But even the Lds “apostle” Bruce McConkie got this one right (I know, quite rare):

“True and saving worship is found only among those who know the truth about God and the Godhead and who understand the true relationship men should have with each member of that Eternal Presidency.” [Come Unto Christ Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 45 (1983, 1986)]

35 posted on 10/29/2011 8:01:30 AM PDT by Colofornian (When Lds cite 175 yo quotes, that's "spiritual" talk; when YOU cite 'em, LDS go 'calendar' on YOU)
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Mormons teach the resurected Jesus of the Bible. Most other “Christians” teach the Jesus of the Pagan Constantine. Read Eusibius if you don’t believe me.


36 posted on 10/29/2011 8:02:55 AM PDT by webboy45
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To: greyfoxx39

There’s a lot there, Greyfox. What, specifically, are you referring to?


37 posted on 10/29/2011 8:07:17 AM PDT by SuzyQue
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To: webboy45; Colofornian
Read Eusibius if you don’t believe me.

This subject has been covered numerous times on FR. If you don't believe me, read this FR thread The Nicene Creed and the Invention of the Trinity

The first comment gives additional links...(if you don't believe me.)

38 posted on 10/29/2011 8:15:17 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (If other churches were dead dunking mormons to save them mormons would be furious.)
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To: rhombus
I try to give them the reason for my Hope. I try to do this with gentleness and humility. It is nice of them to attempt to lead me in what they think is the correct path. Conversation with them may, or may not result in a change in their perception. By listening I am better able to understand the other person and why they believe what they believe. In this understanding I may be better able to give clarity to my own belief and improve my articulation of it. However I do not expect to see any immediate “conversion”. My job is only to deliver the message.
39 posted on 10/29/2011 8:17:57 AM PDT by cotton
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To: cotton

Thanks. Mission Accomplished!


40 posted on 10/29/2011 8:20:10 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: webboy45
Mormons teach the resurected Jesus of the Bible. Most other “Christians” teach the Jesus of the Pagan Constantine. Read Eusibius if you don’t believe me.

Hardly webby. Show us where in the bible heavenly father started his progression to godhood as a man. Show us where in the bible Jesus started his existence as a spirit child of Elohiem and one of his wives. Show us where in the bible the atonement was achieved in the garden. Show us in the bible where Jesus had to progress to godhood on his own.

Talk to us about 'paganism' webbie. Mormon pantheon of gods and goddesses where the head god departs Kolob (olympus) goes and has sex with a human and 'begets' a divine man. And then mythical adventures occur in the western hemisphere (as of yet to be pinpointed)

BTW webbie - the Trinity,by name, was taught for at LEAST more than 100 years prior to Nicea.

Read other ANF if you don't believe me.

41 posted on 10/29/2011 8:26:02 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Elsie

Yep myths and geneaologies.


42 posted on 10/29/2011 8:28:12 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: Colofornian

From the statue in Temple Square down town SLC

“I ASKED WHICH OF THE SECTS WAS RIGHT AND WHICH I SHOULD JOIN. IWAS ANSWERED I MUST JOIN NONE OF THEM. THEY WERE ALL WRONG. THEY TEACH FOR DOCTRINE THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN

The Smith family was excommunicated from the Palmyra Presbyterian Church in Palmyra, NY in March, 1830 for preaching blasphemy...

Joey Smith later wrote about that period...

I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” (Joseph Smith Pearl of great Price (JS History 1:20)

“It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons.” – LDS publication, Ensign Magazine, May 1977, p. 26

Not the same Jesus

“There are those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ.

No, I don’t.

The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.”

– LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998)


43 posted on 10/29/2011 8:33:10 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: cubreporter

I’m so sick of everyone butting into other people’s lives.
________________________________________________

So you get those 50,000 Mormons knocking on your door and butting into your life too and telling you that Christianity is wrong and you need to be a Mormon. too ???

Yes it is sickening isnt it ???


44 posted on 10/29/2011 8:38:28 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: cubreporter
"...Why does anyone care about how someone else worships? Who cares what the Mormons do or the Catholics or Protestants or Episcapalans or Luthrans etc... Everyone should worship as they see fit and the rest of us should mind our own business."

AMEN! The only "religion" we should be concerned about is Islam which at its core wants to stifle personal belief and liberty and condones killing anyone who does not share their belief.

45 posted on 10/29/2011 8:40:16 AM PDT by The Great RJ ("The problem with socialism is that pretty soon you run out of other people's money" M. Thatcher)
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To: Tennessee Nana

50,000 Mormons have knocked on your door? I don’t think 50,000 people have knocked on my door ever. I would move if I was you.


46 posted on 10/29/2011 8:44:16 AM PDT by beandog (Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand)
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To: avital2
i am more interested in the government getting out of the way of business so the economy can recover.

Oddly enough there are vast portions of FR where you can discuss politics and the economy. And yet you wander into the Religion Forum and chide us for discussion religion?

that is an issue well worth debating.

What good is an economic recovery if a person lose's his/her eternal salvation

47 posted on 10/29/2011 8:51:35 AM PDT by Gamecock (I’m so thankful for [the] active obedience of Christ. No hope without it. JGM)
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To: The Great RJ
AMEN! The only "religion" we should be concerned about is Islam which at its core wants to stifle personal belief and liberty and condones killing anyone who does not share their belief.

Really, you should only care about Islam? What about the merging of Christianity and Islam? Would you be concerned about that? There are a few mega church pastors trying to that very thing, calling it Chrislam. Now granted Rick Warren doesn't advocate killing but the Muslims, who believe that Jesus will return and convert into a muslim and tell his followers to do the same, will preach that people who do not covert should be killed. When Christianity is watered down and tried to be made into something its not, there's only an evil result.

When people are deluded into thinking Mormons are Christians, they open the door to other kinds of false teachings and beliefs,.

48 posted on 10/29/2011 8:55:51 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: beandog

Moving does not good...

Just ask people who try to leave the Mormon cult...

The Mormon Inc finds them and keep right on pestering them to “come back”


49 posted on 10/29/2011 8:58:15 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: cubreporter
Religion is a very private and personal matter. It matters not to me how anyone worships. If that is their belief then so be it. Everyone to their own comfort zones.

I am Catholic and believe in God.

I guess Obama's ties to Rev. Write didn't bother you?

You stated you believe in God but do you believe in his son, Jesus?

50 posted on 10/29/2011 8:59:27 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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