Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Mormon Professors Confuse Doctrine and Rumor
Mormon Coffee (Mormonism Research Ministry) ^ | Nov. 14, 2011 | Sharon Lindbloom

Posted on 11/15/2011 6:08:15 AM PST by Colofornian

If I want to know what Mormonism teaches about human beings becoming Gods and creating worlds, should I ask a Mormon? Last month (October 2011) New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd asked the planet question of two Mormons: Richard Bushman, the Visiting Professor in Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University, and Kent P. Jackson, associate dean of religion at Brigham Young University.

Dr. Bushman called the idea of devout Mormons having their own planets in eternity “Mormon lore” that stems from the Mormon belief that humans can become like God. He suggested that if Mormons can become like God, they might then be able to run a bit of God’s universe. Tagging the belief as “lore,” Dr. Bushman relegated the idea to the arena of mere tradition passed from person to person within the Mormon community by word of mouth.

Dr. Jackson went a step further. He said the idea of faithful Mormons being rewarded with their own planets in eternity is a “canard”; that is, “an unfounded rumor or story.” Nothing further needs to be said. End of discussion.

Maureen Dowd asked her question of two prominent Mormons in-the-know about LDS doctrine. She did exactly what most Mormons say non-Mormons need to do if they want to learn the truth about Mormonism. I’m not sure what Maureen Dowd learned the truth about, but it wasn’t the truth about Mormonism.

In a 2007 blog I provided teachings from LDS authorities on this topic (“…prophets, apostles, a Church-produced student manual and a doctrinal exposition by the First Presidency and the Twelve of the LDS Church all teaching ‘that those who attain exaltation become gods of their own planets and give birth to spirit children who pass from preexistence through corporeal life to the afterlife’”); I won’t repeat them here. Some Mormons like to apply the that-was-then-this-is-now disclaimer to that list of historic LDS teachings, but what of the current authoritative LDS teachings on the topic?

As is pointed out in an article at mrm.org, while serving as Prophet and President of the LDS Church, Spencer W. Kimball taught,

“Each one of you has it within the realm of his possibility to develop a kingdom over which you will preside as its king and god. You will need to develop yourself and grow in ability and power and worthiness, to govern such a world with all of its people.” (“’…the Matter of Marriage’” [address delivered at University of Utah Institute of Religion, 22 Oct. 1976], 2).

That was then–35 years ago. But this is now: President Kimball’s statement is quoted in three current LDS manuals. The manuals are produced by the Mormon Church for the purpose of teaching children (Chapter 4: Teaching Children: from Four to Eleven Years,” A Parent’s Guide), high schoolers (Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Seminary Teacher Resource Manual – Introduction), and college students (Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual 430 and 431, 29 [Chapter 10]).

Shortly before his death in 1901, fifth LDS Prophet and President Lorenzo Snow watched kindergarten children forming clay into spheres. President Snow turned to his companion and observed,

“…these children are now at play, making mud worlds, the time will come when some of these boys, through their faithfulness to the gospel, will progress and develop in knowledge, intelligence and power, in future eternities, until they shall be able to go out into space where there is unorganized matter and call together the necessary elements, and through their knowledge of and control over the laws and powers of nature, to organize matter into worlds on which their posterity may dwell, and over which they shall rule as gods.’” (Improvement Era, June 1919, 658–59)

That was then—110 years ago. But this is now: President Snow’s comment is included in a current LDS manual prepared by the Church Educational System to be used in teaching Mormon college students (Presidents of the Church: Student Manual Religion 345, p.90).

In his 1981 book, President Kimball Speaks Out, then-prophet Spencer W. Kimball wrote,

“Peter and John had little secular learning, being termed ignorant. But they knew the vital things of life, that God lives and that the crucified, resurrected Lord is the Son of God. They knew the path to eternal life. This they learned in a few decades of their mortal life. Their righteous lives opened the door to godhood for them and creation of worlds with eternal increase.” (91)

That was then—30 years ago. But this is now: President Kimball’s words are found quoted by Mormon Apostle Tom L. Perry in the August 2011 Ensign magazine (“The Tradition of a Balanced, Righteous Life,” 51). Additionally, though it was 14 years ago, Mr. Perry cited this same quote in his October 1997 General Conference address titled “Receive Truth” (Ensign, November 1997, 60).

So back to my original question: If I want to know what Mormonism teaches about human beings becoming Gods and creating worlds, should I ask a Mormon? Should I ask LDS professors? Or should I consult the teachings of LDS prophets and apostles? Mormon professor Kent Jackson says the doctrine is nothing but a canard — an unfounded rumor — while Mormon prophets and apostles continue to proclaim the doctrine with clarity via official Church venues and publications. Which source is the best and most trustworthy source for learning the truth about Mormonism? And just as importantly, why don’t these sources agree?


TOPICS: Apologetics; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: belivelyingeyes; doctrine; gods; inman; lds; mittromney; mormon; mormonism; romney; romneysreligion
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-78 next last

1 posted on 11/15/2011 6:08:17 AM PST by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Battlestar Galactica - mormons in space PLACE MARKER


2 posted on 11/15/2011 6:19:08 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

this is why i question folks who are mormons, who either want to hold public office (and to a lesser extent, glenn beck).....if you cant see the contradictions historically in your faith, and there are a ton of them....how can i trust you in your decisions in the public forum???


3 posted on 11/15/2011 6:19:23 AM PST by raygunfan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: raygunfan
".if you cant see the contradictions historically in your faith, and there are a ton of them....how can i trust you in your decisions in the public forum???"

Yup!

4 posted on 11/15/2011 6:24:22 AM PST by haywoodwebb (The "Manchurian Candidate" Will Fall!! - - You Betcha!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: All; Ripliancum
From the article: Dr. Bushman called the idea of devout Mormons having their own planets in eternity “Mormon lore”...

We have our Bushman "lore" moments here on Free Republic, too -- where Mormons reduce clear Lds teachings to myths or accuse others of repeating "Evangelical...talking point[s]."

EXAMPLE

Oct. 23, 2011: A Freeper poster says about Mormonism: Well, the problem is that neither Judaism nor Catholicism thinks that we will all be gods and get our own planets... Mormons get our own planets? [post #7]

10 minutes doesn't even go by before a Mormon FREEPER scolds this poster; "Educate yourself. In my 40 plus years in the LDS church, I've never heard taught that we will all be gods of our own planets. That's a talking point of the evangelical opposition to the Church." [Post #10]

So here we have a Mormon FREEPER accusing another FREEPER of taking an "Evangelical...talking point" as factual...implying it isn't.

I later cited on that thread an Lds "prophet" -- Joseph Fielding Smith -- as teaching:

“To become like him we must have ALL the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an EARTH LIKE THIS ONE WE ARE ON and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and HAVE JURISDICTION OVER WORLDS, AND THESE WORLDS WILL BE PEOPLED BY OUR OWN OFFSPRING. WE WILL HAVE AN ENDLESS ETERNITY FOR THIS."
Source: Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:48, as cited by The Mormon Church’s annual Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1978-79, p. 131

The author of this thread's article notes the same thing occurring re: Richard Bushman...providing even additional Lds sources where Mormons will have their own planets' teaching is still taught to Mormon children:

From the article: ...while serving as Prophet and President of the LDS Church, Spencer W. Kimball taught, “Each one of you has it within the realm of his possibility to develop a kingdom over which you will preside as its king and god. You will need to develop yourself and grow in ability and power and worthiness, to govern such a world with all of its people.” (“’…the Matter of Marriage’” [address delivered at University of Utah Institute of Religion, 22 Oct. 1976], 2). That was then–35 years ago. But this is now: President Kimball’s statement is quoted in three current LDS manuals. The manuals are produced by the Mormon Church for the purpose of teaching children (Chapter 4: Teaching Children: from Four to Eleven Years,” A Parent’s Guide), high schoolers (Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Seminary Teacher Resource Manual – Introduction), and college students (Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual 430 and 431, 29 [Chapter 10]).

From the article: Shortly before his death in 1901, fifth LDS Prophet and President Lorenzo Snow watched kindergarten children forming clay into spheres. President Snow turned to his companion and observed, “…these children are now at play, making mud worlds, the time will come when some of these boys, through their faithfulness to the gospel, will progress and develop in knowledge, intelligence and power, in future eternities, until they shall be able to go out into space where there is unorganized matter and call together the necessary elements, and through their knowledge of and control over the laws and powers of nature, to organize matter into worlds on which their posterity may dwell, and over which they shall rule as gods.’”(Improvement Era, June 1919, 658–59)

Beware "face value" convos with Mormons when they tell you what they believe.

They duck. Accuse you falsely. Obfuscate. Redefine words. Some even prevaricate -- thinking that you only deserve "milk" as a babe and therefore are not "worthy" to eat Mormon meat.

5 posted on 11/15/2011 6:35:46 AM PST by Colofornian (I’ve been amazed at some of the JoPologists and McScuses that have been surfacing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: raygunfan; haywoodwebb
this is why i question folks who are mormons, who either want to hold public office (and to a lesser extent, glenn beck).....if you cant see the contradictions historically in your faith, and there are a ton of them....how can i trust you in your decisions in the public forum???

Bingo! Contradictions galore. Discernment in conceding them: zero.

6 posted on 11/15/2011 6:38:30 AM PST by Colofornian (I’ve been amazed at some of the JoPologists and McScuses that have been surfacing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

How can someone hold up a book they claim to be the inspired word of God, and at the same time refer to details in that book as a “canard”???

Are they admitting that Joseph Smith was writing from his own opinion or speculation???

They cannot have it both ways.

This is why we cannot afford to have someone like Mitt Romney as president. They are simply unable to deal with common sense reality.

Compartmentalization can be costly. TOO costly given that much power.


7 posted on 11/15/2011 6:39:59 AM PST by Safrguns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: raygunfan
If you can believe in the various contradictions, are you the person I should trust to be in charge of the greatest country in the world or the person to hold the nuclear "football?"

NO

8 posted on 11/15/2011 6:41:08 AM PST by zerosix (native sunflower)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Clear, concise, and to the point. Thank you. These inconsistencies are why I can’t vote for Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman. If they refuse to clearly look at these serious problems within their religion, why would I expect them to “rightly divide” issues for this nation? I would respect them more if they simply said, “Yes, I think one day I’ll be god-like and rule a planet.”

This business of then-and-now cannot be trusted. The Bible says Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. (Heb. 13:8) Any religion claiming to be Christian, as Mormonism claims, should be in line with Jesus. Again in James 1:17 the Bible says God does not change. Truth is TRUTH — it does not do then and now.

Anyone who cannot recognize the absolute nature of truth as it originates from God cannot be trusted to hold public office. That is what we have now in the Presidency.


9 posted on 11/15/2011 6:42:32 AM PST by daisy mae for the usa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Dr. Bushman [Richard Bushman, the Visiting Professor in Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University] called the idea of devout Mormons having their own planets in eternity “Mormon lore” that stems from the Mormon belief that humans can become like God. He suggested that if Mormons can become like God, they might then be able to run a bit of God’s universe. Tagging the belief as “lore,” Dr. Bushman relegated the idea to the arena of mere tradition passed from person to person within the Mormon community by word of mouth.

Dr. Jackson [Kent P. Jackson, associate dean of religion at Brigham Young University] went a step further. He said the idea of faithful Mormons being rewarded with their own planets in eternity is a “canard”; that is, “an unfounded rumor or story.” Nothing further needs to be said. End of discussion....

....If I want to know what Mormonism teaches about human beings becoming Gods and creating worlds, should I ask a Mormon? Should I ask LDS professors? Or should I consult the teachings of LDS prophets and apostles? Mormon professor Kent Jackson says the doctrine is nothing but a canard — an unfounded rumor — while Mormon prophets and apostles continue to proclaim the doctrine with clarity via official Church venues and publications. Which source is the best and most trustworthy source for learning the truth about Mormonism? And just as importantly, why don’t these sources agree?

Which source is authoritative? Which source claims to speak with authority? Mormonism trumpets the claim that, because they don't have paid clergy, their clergy can be trusted. I take that to mean, from a Mormon point of view, that a paid and tenured university professor cannot be trusted.

Twelve Apostates

10 posted on 11/15/2011 7:05:31 AM PST by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2703506/posts?page=518#518)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns
"Are they admitting that Joseph Smith was writing from his own opinion or speculation???..."

Actually, from JS's "book" and later talks and writings, even he disagreed with what he had said earlier,....errrrr what God had told him to say differed from what God had told him to say - before.

11 posted on 11/15/2011 7:12:17 AM PST by zerosix (native sunflower)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy

Should I believe Mitt...or my own lying eyes?


12 posted on 11/15/2011 7:14:46 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (If other churches were dead dunking mormons to save them mormons would be furious.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Thanks for posting. According to the LDS professors in the article, there is no substance to some of the beliefs that Church leaders & Prophets clearly taught and continue to teach. What is particularly disturbing to me is the attempt by current LDS leaders and professors to publicly distort and deny their own teachings while attacking others who simply document those teachings. In a lot of ways it is similar to how Muslims apologists react when one points out the truth about Islam not being the “religion of peace” they maintain it is. Instead of acknowledging Islam's record both in the past and present, they accuse others of being “Islamophobes”. Likewise, those who tell the facts about Mormon teachings are “anti-Mormons”. Never-mind what the truth is.

No doubt what I just wrote will put me in the Mormon hater category. But that could not be farther from the truth. I have close Mormon friends whose friendships I treasure.

13 posted on 11/15/2011 7:26:44 AM PST by Nevadan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns
How can someone hold up a book they claim to be the inspired word of God, and at the same time refer to details in that book as a “canard”???

Are you talking about the Book of Mormon? Nothing in there says anything about becoming a God. Joseph Smith hadn't thought it up yet when he thought up the BOM.
14 posted on 11/15/2011 7:58:54 AM PST by GLDNGUN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

There is no religion more consistant than Mormonism. The doctrine comes from the Bible and other standard works and from prophets when they are speaking propheticly. However, some of what some Mormons believe comes from intepretations of the standard works, and we try to differentiate between doctrine and interpretation. That man may become like God is doctrine, well established by the Bible and the Doctrine and Covenents. The questions of planets and who rules over what are interpretations, not doctrine.


15 posted on 11/15/2011 9:23:34 AM PST by webboy45
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: webboy45

holy moley, not sure even where to begin on that statement....


16 posted on 11/15/2011 9:54:29 AM PST by raygunfan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: webboy45; Colofornian; ejonesie22; Elsie; greyfoxx39; SZonian
There is no religion more consistant than Mormonism.

Right - 3000+ changes to the bom all WITHOUT the benefit of either the peep stone or the gold tablets

Smith and church doctrine at the time - forbade plural marriages, all the while smith and his inner circle were marrying all sorts of women, some in their early teens and others who were still married to another man.

Consistent in that the prophet proclaimed that it was the pure word from God that polygamy would never cease - suddenly got a 'revelation' that polygamy was finished as government troops were en route to arrest him and disenfranchise the mormon church.

Same consistency that had polygamy practiced in secret by prophets and apostles - even though the 'revelation' of 'god' was to stop the practice.

The same consistency that had smith speaking for and against slavery, and the mormon church forbidding blacks from holding the priesthood until lawsuits by the dozen were crashing through the office doors of SLC. Then another 'revelation'.

That man may become like God is doctrine, well established by the Bible and the Doctrine and Covenents.

Sorry webbie, the Bible repudiates the concept and D&C is a fallible document written by the hand of man that is unreliable - after all, IF polygamy is no longer necessary to attain godhood, why is Sect 132 still present.

But then such statements directed in the "TO:" box to no one show such a bold witness.

17 posted on 11/15/2011 9:54:32 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: webboy45
BoM - Polygamy is forbidden.

Jacob 2:27 (from the BOM) reads, "Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none." And Jacob 2:24 says, “Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.”

Yet, we have the D&C Sect. 132 stating that opposite. How is that consistent?

Let me guess, JS was "speaking propheticly [sic]" when he "revealed" this?

Or what about this; Why were the words "white and delightsome" in 2 Nephi 30:6 changed to "pure and delightsome" right around the same time as the Civil rights for blacks campaign was ramping up?

Or; Why does the Book of Mormon state that Jesus was born in Jerusalem (Alma 7:10) when history and the Bible state that he was born outside of Jerusalem, in Bethlehem?

If, as claimed by mormons, the BoM "contains the fullness of the everlasting gospel®", why are additional works [read temple stuff] required?

Why do you baptize for the dead when both Mosiah 3:25 and the Bible state that there is no chance of salvation after death?

If having a physical body is necessary to become a god, how did Jesus become a god before he had a body?

Why are Mormon Temple ceremonies secret [argued by mormons to be "sacred" not "secret"] to the public when the Old Testament temple ceremonies were open to public knowledge?

Many more questions here...http://www.contenderministries.org/mormonism/fairlds50questions.php

18 posted on 11/15/2011 10:19:29 AM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: GLDNGUN

>>> Are you talking about the Book of Mormon? Nothing in there says anything about becoming a God. Joseph Smith hadn’t thought it up yet when he thought up the BOM.

Of course I’m talking about the BOM.
But I said nothing about that particular claim being in there.
There is a multitude of inconsistencies and fabrications within the BOM that illustrates my point.

And all you need to prove that God didn’t write it is ONE.


19 posted on 11/15/2011 10:19:44 AM PST by Safrguns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

I’m conflicted...


20 posted on 11/15/2011 11:05:53 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

If God said it,

I Believe it,

That settles it....

How hard would that be?

No reason for duplicitous values, that are antagonistic to God’s clarity.


21 posted on 11/15/2011 11:07:31 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

So the liberals are starting to become experts on Mormon theology?


22 posted on 11/15/2011 11:19:14 AM PST by cruise_missile
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Godzilla

Pwned


23 posted on 11/15/2011 11:27:44 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (You know, 99.99999965% of the lawyers give all of them a bad name)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: cruise_missile

“So the liberals are starting to become experts on Mormon theology?”

Liberals and FR anti Mormons in bed with each other. Kind of creepy.


25 posted on 11/15/2011 12:05:59 PM PST by Saundra Duffy ( For victory & freedom!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: UtahGirl1; Jim Robinson
LIve and let live. I really doubt any of this will have any affect on how a Mormon President of the United States runs this great country — unless it's with strong values and moral conviction. Sounds good to me. Go Mitt!

You signed on today to post this drivel.

IBTZ

I smell some ozone coming on


26 posted on 11/15/2011 12:07:13 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: webboy45
Oh Webby my boy, there is no “like god” LDS become gods in their little story line.

As far as consistency, really. come one my Boy, how much scripture form the very prophets themselves has been tossed under the bus...

27 posted on 11/15/2011 12:16:38 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: webboy45
That man may become like God is doctrine, well established by the Bible

Show me.

Besides mormonISM does not teach LIKE God but will BE god.

28 posted on 11/15/2011 12:17:00 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: webboy45

Consistent - blacks barely human, now nearly human
Consistent - polygamy ok, now not ok
Consistent - coffee ok, now not ok
Consistent - alcohol ok, now not ok
Just to name a few


29 posted on 11/15/2011 12:19:46 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: UtahGirl1
UG, this is a Conservative site.

“Go Mitt” is not really the thing to say unless you left “away” out after the go...

30 posted on 11/15/2011 12:22:23 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Saundra Duffy

At lest those on FR who are anti-mormonISM quote directly from lds sites.


31 posted on 11/15/2011 12:22:34 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: UtahGirl1

If you want to support Romney even though he is a liberal.
supports homosexual agenda
supports abortion
supports government health care
does not support the 2nd amendment
...............and more liberal areas
Be my guest, don’t pretend however that he is a conservative, he is not.
And for crying out loud don’t support him just because he is lds......really boring on your part.


32 posted on 11/15/2011 12:25:35 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Saundra Duffy
Oh please Duffy, a Mitt lover accusing ANYONE of being in bed with liberals is past funny...

Your little world is just not quite aligned with reality...

33 posted on 11/15/2011 12:30:15 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: GLDNGUN
Are you talking about the Book of Mormon? Nothing in there says anything about becoming a God. Joseph Smith hadn't thought it up yet when he thought up the BOM.

And it doesn't say much about ANY of the SECRET rites that MORMONs perform in their Temples.

NONE of their 'scripture' has them listed; so the ONLY logical conclusion that a rational person could come up with is that they are MAN-MADE 'tradtions'.

34 posted on 11/15/2011 12:41:31 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: webboy45
There is no religion more consistant than Mormonism.

O...
K...

Doctrine and Covenants

Section 124:144

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/124?lang=eng

And a commandment I give unto you, that you should fill all these offices and aapprove of those names which I have mentioned, or else disapprove of them at my general conference;

35 posted on 11/15/2011 12:42:39 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: webboy45
There is no religion more consistant than Mormonism.

O...
K...

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President


36 posted on 11/15/2011 12:43:06 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: SZonian
Polygamy is forbidden.

 

Polygamy: How it all got Started


 
 
 
Joe: Hey Emma!   Guess what!?
 
Emma: You KNOW I hate these guessing games! What is it, Dear?
 
Joe: I heard a voice, probably the Lord, tell me I must take other wives.
 
Emma: WHAT!?   You ding bat!  Don't you KNOW what our precious BOOK says?   After all; YOU are the one that translated it!
 
Joe: Books; schmooks.   All I know is I've been COMMANDED to take other wives and you are to OBEY ME!!!
 
 
Emma:      "Though shalt NOT commit ADULTERY!!!"
 
 
Joe: Silly Woman!  You KNOW better than to take things out of CONTEXT!!!
 
 
 
 
 

 
...and the rest is HISTORY...
 

 
 
 
 
 
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI
CHAPTER 2
 
  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
 

Or even HERE:
 

 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
 
 
1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
 
 
 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.



 
 
Emma: That's IT!   I'm LEAVING your sorry *!!!
 
Joe:  DARN you Emma; you were TOLD to accept this!!   Wait!!!   I hear a voice again!!!
 
 


 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
 
  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 
 
  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice.


39 posted on 11/15/2011 12:44:46 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: UtahGirl1
I thought, well, that's probably reserved for those of the utmost faith and devotion — somewhat beyond the concept of “the three degrees of Glory” or the “Celestial Kingdom” — all phrases and terms that I was comfortable with because I understood the broader meaning of those concepts.

So, are you WORTHY?

Are you a FULL tithe payer?

Do you have a current TR?

THOSE folks are the ones who get the goodies of MORMON 'faithfulness'!

40 posted on 11/15/2011 12:46:42 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: UtahGirl1
LIve and let live.

Sounds good to me!

Oh, BTW; do you SUPPORT or REPUDIATE the following statements?


 

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses  5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses  8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses  8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses  10:230).
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses , vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

41 posted on 11/15/2011 12:49:07 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: UtahGirl1
Well maybe you should have stopped by the first page...

This is a Conservative site.

“Go Mitt” not exactly a conservative sentiment.

But given your sign in date, where you decided to jump in and such I have this little inkling in the back of my mind you are very familiar with what FR is all about.

42 posted on 11/15/2011 12:50:48 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: UtahGirl1
Did I miss something?

Yes.

Any one promoting ROMNEY on this website won't be around very long.

You'll get some slack for being new; but once you READ what the OWNER of this site says, then you've been warned.

43 posted on 11/15/2011 12:52:22 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Jim Robinson

Forgot to ping you to above...


44 posted on 11/15/2011 12:53:04 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]




Click the Pic               Thank you, JoeProBono

Gary Has Not Been Seen Since He Parachuted to Safety!

Follow the Exciting Adventures of Gary the Snail!


Become a Monthly Donor
Sponsors will contribute $10
For each New Monthly Donor

45 posted on 11/15/2011 12:58:12 PM PST by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Elsie

46 posted on 11/15/2011 1:02:56 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Elsie
.0
47 posted on 11/15/2011 1:03:48 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: webboy45
There is no religion more consistant than Mormonism.

O...
    K...

 

 

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints


  1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
  3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
  4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
  5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
  6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
  7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
  8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
  9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
    We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
  10. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may
  11. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
  12. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

© 2011 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information.

48 posted on 11/15/2011 1:06:34 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Elsie
We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things.

http://lds.org/ensign/2005/07/believe-all-things?lang=eng

49 posted on 11/15/2011 1:09:29 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

I smell retread...


50 posted on 11/15/2011 1:11:50 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-78 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson