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Gay Episcopal Bishop to Preach at San Francisco Catholic Parish
Catholic Culture ^ | 11/22/11

Posted on 11/23/2011 11:11:08 AM PST by marshmallow

A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.

Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: catholic; ecus; episcopagan; episcopaganbishop; homonaziagenda; homonazibishop; homosexualagenda; homosexualbishop; religiousfaggot; religiousleft; romancatholic; sanfranpsycho; sanfransicko; sexualpaganism
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To: marshmallow; NYer; Tax-chick; Chode
"Oh now theys gone and done it! They gone and invited the devil into the House of the Lord. Oh they going to hell alright! I wash my hands of them GLORY HALLEJUAH!"
51 posted on 11/23/2011 5:19:11 PM PST by Morgana (Rent this Space....Cheap)
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To: marshmallow
Most Holy Redeemer parish USED to be staight-arrow, blue collar, until the early 1970's. My sister and her husband lived there. I visited my sister every weekend. We would go to the 5:30 P.M. Mass there then go back to her home for dinner. She was a GREAT cook.

Then the homosexual community moved into the neighborhood in the early 1970's. The parish stayed straight until Most Holy Redeemer SCHOOL closed. It closed because the straight parents MOVED AWAY.

After that the Most Holy Redeemer convent closed...no children, therefore nuns not needed...and it became a hospice for AIDS patients and the visiting families of those patients.

Over the years the Catholic homosexuals came to live in the neighborhood as well, the straight OLD Catholics died out and the parish became mostly homosexual.

Thus the visit from the "outreworld" person of the cloth. Sad. But it was sad from the early 1970's.

52 posted on 11/23/2011 5:36:24 PM PST by cloudmountain
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To: rzman21
The Gay Bishop is leading an Advent service, not a Mass.
I imagine the GB has been properly "vetted" for the service, otherwise he wouldn't be there.

That parish, Most Holy Redeemer, has never, in the last 45+ years, been "in trouble" with the archdiocese for doing ANYTHING outlawed or forbidden. Well, I never heard of it and it WOULD HAVE BEEN in the local Catholic newspaper. The old version used to be called The Monitor.

Archbishop Niederaur is an excellent bishop and very smart. It's necessary here. He replaced Archbishop William Joseph Levada, who became the new head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome.

Guess who he replaced?
Josef Ratzinger
Vatican City, May 13, 2005 / 12:00 am (CNA).- Pope Benedict XVI announced today that Archbishop William Joseph Levada, until now Archbishop of San Francisco, is succeeding him as the new Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

53 posted on 11/23/2011 5:49:43 PM PST by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain

My Eastern Orthodox acquaintance who pays attention to Roman Catholic Church politics was aghast when Pope Benedict named Archbishop Levada to succeed him.


54 posted on 11/23/2011 5:52:51 PM PST by rzman21
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To: chuckles

Nice to see an RC with some Christianity in his blood.

Please infect the rabid cliques hereon with same.


55 posted on 11/23/2011 5:54:28 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: metmom

Welllllll

since the Ashteroth-Mary-Goddess cult purportedly chooses what’s up/down, good/bad;

who God’s Mummy is;

when said Mummy gets to join the ‘hypostatic union of the Godhead’

etc. etc.

they probably figure they can choose when to call bad good; good bad and how to apply their DAFFYNITIONARY.


56 posted on 11/23/2011 5:57:53 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: rzman21

i was aghast when JP II invited all the world’s religions to Assisi to “pray” together.

i didn’t see him lift up Jesus Christ and preach him to all these pagans, which included hindus, sieks, muslims, animal worshippers, etc. etc.

could have been the most disgraceful act i ever saw, i knew the end was near and the great falling away was well under way.

there is a small remnant though of faithful believers, just not sure any of them are bishops or cardinals.


57 posted on 11/23/2011 6:01:41 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: metmom
>>Genuine salvation WILL result in a changed heart and life.<<

That is an undeniable fact. And it will be visible.

58 posted on 11/23/2011 6:13:06 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear; metmom

does “genuine salvation” result in telling continuous and delibrate “untruths” about what the Church teaches and believes?


59 posted on 11/23/2011 6:15:36 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
>>telling continuous and delibrate “untruths” about what the Church teaches and believes?<<

Give an example.

60 posted on 11/23/2011 6:27:17 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

post #27.

do you know who the father of lies is?

why do you do the will of this (f)ather?


61 posted on 11/23/2011 6:36:30 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
>>post #27.<<

That was truth. Do you not know when the CC adopted the “mother of God” and “queen of heaven” philosophy? Ephesus was the place where the temple to Diana was and the merchants there were worried about the loss of “queen of heaven” trinkets sales because Christianity was growing. The people also did not want to give up their “queen”. That had already started during Paul’s time. He mentioned it in his letter to the Ephesians.

>>do you know who the father of lies is?<<

Yep, and that’s who influenced the inclusion of pagan rituals, rites, holidays, and symbols into the CC.

62 posted on 11/23/2011 6:57:31 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris Read now First Council of EphesusFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search This article covers the Ecumenical council of 431. For other councils by this name, see Council of Ephesus. First Council of Ephesus Date 431 Accepted by Roman Catholics, Old Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Oriental Orthodox, Lutherans Previous council First Council of Constantinople Next council Council of Chalcedon Convoked by Emperor Theodosius II Presided by Cyril of Alexandria Attendance 200-250 (papal representatives arrived late) Topics of discussion Nestorianism, Theotokos, Pelagianism Documents and statements Nicene Creed confirmed, condemnations of heresies, declaration of "Theotokos" Chronological list of Ecumenical councils The First Council of Ephesus was the third ecumenical council of the early Christian Church, held in 431 at the Church of Mary in Ephesus, Asia Minor. The council was called amid a dispute over the teachings of Nestorius, Patriarch of Constantinople. Nestorius' doctrine, Nestorianism, which emphasized the disunity between Christ's human and divine natures, had brought him into conflict with other church leaders, most notably Cyril, Patriarch of Alexandria. Nestorius himself had requested that the Emperor convene council, hoping to prove his orthodoxy, but in the end his teachings were condemned by the council as heresy. Nestorius' dispute with Cyril had led the latter to seek validation from Pope Celestine I, who authorized Cyril to request that Nestorius recant his position or face excommunication. Nestorius pleaded with Roman Emperor Theodosius II to call a council in which all grievances could be aired, hoping that he would be vindicated and Cyril condemned. Approximately 250 bishops were present. The proceedings were conducted in a heated atmosphere of confrontation and recriminations and created severe tensions between Cyril and Theodosius. Nestorius was decisively outplayed by Cyril and removed from his see, and his teachings were officially anathematized. This precipitated the Nestorian Schism, by which churches supportive of Nestorius, especially in Persia, were severed from the rest of Christendom and became known as the Nestorian Church or the Church of the East, recently divided between the Assyrian Church of the East and the Ancient Church of the East. Nestorius himself retired to a monastery, always asserting his orthodoxy. The council is accepted as the Third Ecumenical Council by Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, and a number of other Western Christian groups. Contents [hide] 1 History 1.1 Political context 1.2 Theological context 1.3 Convocation 1.4 Assembly 1.5 First session - June 22 1.6 Arrival of the Antiochene delegation 1.7 Second Session - July 10 1.8 Third Session - July 11 1.9 Fourth Session - July 16 1.10 Fifth Session - July 17 1.11 Sixth Session 1.12 Seventh Session - July 31 2 Canons and declarations 3 Confirmation of the Council's Acts 4 Aftermath 4.1 Conciliation 5 References 6 Sources 7 External links [edit] History[edit] Political contextMcGuckin cites the "innate rivalry" between Alexandria and Constantinople as an important factor in the controversy between Cyril of Alexandria and Nestorius.[1] However, he emphasizes that, as much as political competition contributed to an "overall climate of dissent", the controversy cannot be reduced merely to the level of "personality clashes" or "political antagonisms". According to McGuckin, Cyril viewed the "elevated intellectual intellectual argument about christology" as ultimately one and the same as the "validity and security of the simple Christian life".[2] Even within Constantinople, some supported the Roman-Alexandrian and others supported the Nestorian factions. For example, Pulcheria supported the Roman-Alexandrian popes while the emperor and his wife supported Nestorius.[3] [edit] Theological contextSee also: Nestorianism Contention over Nestorius' teachings, which he developed during his studies at the School of Antioch, largely revolved around his rejection of the long-used title Theotokos ("Mother of God") for the Virgin Mary. Shortly after his arrival in Constantinople, Nestorius became involved in the disputes of two theological factions, which differed in their Christology. McGuckin ascribes Nestorius' importance to his being the representative of the Antiochene tradition and characterizes him as a "consistent, if none too clear, exponent of the longstanding Antiochene dogmatic tradition." Nestorius was greatly surprised that what he had always taught in Antioch without any controversy whatsoever should prove to be so objectionable to the Christians of Constantinople. Nestorius emphasized the dual natures of Christ, trying to find a middle ground between those that emphasized the fact that in Christ God had been born as a man, insisted on calling the Virgin Mary Theotokos (Greek: Θεοτόκος, "God-bearer"), and those that rejected that title because God as an eternal being could not have been born. Nestorius suggested the titleChristotokos (Χριστοτόκος, "Christ-bearer"), but this proposal did not gain acceptance on either side. Nestorius tried to answer a question considered unsolved: "How can Jesus Christ, being part man, not be partially a sinner as well, since man is by definition a sinner since the Fall". To solve that he taught that Mary, the mother of Jesus gave birth to the incarnate Christ, not the divine Logos who existed before Mary and indeed before time itself. The Logos occupied the part of the human soul (the part of man that was stained by the Fall). But wouldn't the absence of a human soul make Jesus less human? Nestorius rejected this proposition, answering that, because the human soul was based on the archetype of the Logos, only to become polluted by the Fall, Jesus was "more" human for having the Logos and not "less". Consequently, Nestorius argued that the Virgin Mary should be called Christotokos, Greek for "Birth Giver of Christ", and not Theotokos, Greek for "Birth Giver of God". Nestorius believed that no union between the human and divine were possible. If such a union of human and divine occurred, Nestorius believed that Christ could not truly be con-substantial with God and con-substantial with us because he would grow, mature, suffer and die (which Nestorius argued God cannot do) and also would possess the power of God that would separate him from being equal to humans. According to McGuckin, several mid-twentieth century accounts have tended to "romanticise" Nestorius; in opposition to this view, he asserts that Nestorius was no less dogmatic, uncompromising than Cyril and that he was fully just as prepared to use his political and canonical powers as Cyril or any of the other hierarchs of the period.[4] Nestorius's opponents charged him with detaching Christ's divinity and humanity into two persons existing in one body, thereby denying the reality of the Incarnation. Eusebius, a layman who later became the bishop of the neighbouring Dorylaeum was the first to accuse Nestorius of heresy but his most forceful opponent however was Patriarch Cyril of Alexandria. Cyril argued that Nestorianism split Jesus in half and denied that he was both human and divine. Cyril appealed to Pope Celestine I, charging Nestorius with heresy. The Pope agreed and gave Cyril his authority to serve a notice to Nestorius to recant his views within ten days or else be excommunicated. Before acting on the Pope's commission, Cyril convened a synod of Egyptian bishops which condemned Nestorius as well. Cyril then sent four suffragan bishops to deliver both the Pope's commission as well as the synodal letter of the Egyptian bishops. Cyril sent a letter to Nestorius known as "The Third Epistle of Saint Cyril to Nestorius." This epistle drew heavily on the established Patristic Constitutions and contained the most famous article of Alexandrian Orthodoxy: "The Twelve Anathemas of Saint Cyril." In theseanathemas, Cyril excommunicated anyone who followed the teachings of Nestorius. For example, "Anyone who dares to deny the Holy Virgin the title Theotokos is Anathema!" Nestorius however, still would not repent. McGuckin points out that other representatives of the Antiochene tradition such as John of Antioch, Theodoret and Andrew of Samosata were able to recognize "the point of the argument for Christ's integrity" and concede the "ill-advised nature of Nestorius' immoveability."[5] Concerned at the potential for a negative result at a council, they urged Nestorius to yield and accept the use of the title Theotokos when referring to the Virgin Mary.[6] For example, John of Antioch wrote to Nestorius urging him to submit to the Pope's judgment and cease stirring up controversy over a word that he disliked (Theotokos) but which could be interpreted as having an orthodox meaning especially in light of the fact that many saints and doctors of the church had sanctioned the word by using it themselves. John wrote to Nestorius, "Don't lose your head. Ten days! It will not take you twenty-four hours to give the needed answer.... Ask advice of men you can trust. Ask them to tell you the facts, not just what they think will please you.... You have the whole of the East against you, as well as Egypt." Despite this advice from his colleagues, Nestorius persisted in maintaining the rightness of his position. [edit] ConvocationOn 19 November, Nestorius, anticipating the ultimatum which was about to be delivered, convinced Emperor Theodosius II to summon a general council through which Nestorius hoped to convict Cyril of heresy and thereby vindicate his own teachings. Theodosius issued a Sacra calling for the metropolitan bishops to assemble in the city of Ephesus, which was a special seat for the veneration of Mary, where the theotokos formula was popular. Each bishop was to bring only his more eminent suffragans. The date set by the Emperor for the opening of the council was Pentecost (7 June) 431.[7] McGuckin notes that the vagueness of the Sacra resulted in wide variations of interpretation by different bishops. In particular, the vastness of John of Antioch's ecclesiastical territory required a lengthy period to notify and gather his delegates. Because the overland trip from Antioch to Ephesus was long and arduous, John composed his delegation of his metropolitan bishops who were restricted to bring no more than two suffragans each. By doing so, he minimized the number who would have to travel to Ephesus. Neither of the emperors attended the council. Theodosius appointed Count Candidian as the head of the imperial palace guard to represent him, to supervise the proceedings of the Council, and to keep good order in the city of Ephesus. Despite Nestorius' agenda of prosecuting Cyril, Theodosius intended for the council to focus strictly on the christological controversy. He thus gave Candidianus strict directions to remain neutral and not to interfere in the theological proceedings. It is generally assumed that Candidian initially maintained his neutrality as instructed by the emperor and only gradually became more biased towards Nestorius. McGuckin, however, suggests that Candidian may have favored Nestorius from the start.[8][9] [edit] AssemblyCelestine sent Arcadius and Projectus, to represent himself and his Roman council; in addition, he sent the Roman priest, Philip, as his personal representative. As Celestine's representative, Philip should have had primacy; however, because Philip was not a bishop, he could not preside over the council. It thus fell to Cyril as Patriarch of Alexandria to be president. Celestine had directed the papal legates not to take part in the discussions, but to give judgment on them.[10] Bishops arrived in Ephesus over a period of several weeks. While waiting for the other bishops to arrive, they engaged in informal discussions which James Craigie Robertson characterizes as tending to "exasperate rather than heal their differences".[11] As the metropolitan of Ephesus, Memnon was already present with his 52 bishops. Nestorius and his 16 bishops were the first to arrive shortly after Easter. As archbishop of the imperial city of Constantinopolis, he traveled with a detachment of troops who were under the command of Count Candidian. McGuckin notes that the troops were not there to serve as Nestorius' bodyguard but to support Candidian in his role as the emperor's representative. However, McGuckin theorizes that Candidian's progressive abandonment of neutrality in favor of Nestorius may have created the perception that Candidian's troops were, in fact, there to support Nestorius.[12] Candidian ordered all monks and lay strangers to leave the city; he further instructed the bishops not to leave on any pretext until the council was concluded.[13] Several sources comment that the purpose of this injunction was to prevent bishops from leaving the council to appeal to the emperor directly.[citation needed] According to McGuckin, Memnon, as bishop of Ephesus, commanded the "fervent and unquestioned loyalty" of the local populace and thus could count on the support of local factions to counterbalance the military might of Candidian's troops.[14] In view of the verdict of Rome against Nestorius, Memnon refused to have communion with Nestorius, closing the churches of Ephesus to him.[15] Cyril brought with him 50 bishops, arriving only a few days before Pentecost.[16] There were very few bishops representing the West, the papal representatives did not arrive until July.[17] The Palestinian delegation of 16 bishops and Metropolitan Flavian of Philippi arrived 5 days after the date that had been set for opening the council, and aligned themselves with Cyril.[18] At this point, Cyril announced his intention to open the council; however, Candidian enjoined him from doing so on the grounds that the Roman and Antiochean delegations had not arrived yet.[6] Cyril initially acceded to Candidian's injunction knowing that he could not legally convene a council without the official reading of the Emperor's Sacra.[19] A number of bishops, who were undecided between Nestorius and Cyril, did not want to give Cyril, as one party in the dispute, the right to chair the meeting and decide the agenda;[20] however, they began to take Cyril's side for various reasons.[21] Various circumstances including a detour necessitated by flooding as well as sickness and death of some of the delegates seriously delayed John of Antioch and his bishops.[22] It was rumored that John might be delaying his arrival in order to avoid participating in a council which was likely to condemn Nestorius as a heretic.[23] [edit] First session - June 22Two weeks after the date set for the council, John and the bulk of his Syrian group (42 members) had not yet appeared. At this point, Cyril formally opened the council on Monday 22 June by enthroning the Gospels in the centre of the church, as a symbol of Christ's presence among the assembled bishops.[24] Despite three separate summons, Nestorius refused to acknowledge Cyril's authority to stand in judgment of him and considered the opening of the council before the arrival of the Antiochene contingent as a "flagrant injustice".[6][25] The 68 bishops who opposed the opening the council entered the church in protest, arriving with Count Candidian who declared that the assembly was illegal and must disperse.[26] He urged Cyril to wait four more days for the Syrian delegation to arrive.[27] However, since even the bishops opposed to opening of the council were now present, Cyril maneuvered Candidian by means of a ruse to read out the text of the Emperor's decree of convocation, which the assembly then acclaimed as recognition of its own legality.[28] [edit] Arrival of the Antiochene delegationWhen John of Antioch and his Syrian bishops finally reached Ephesus five days after the council, they met with Candidian who informed them that Cyril had begun a council without them and had ratified Celestine's conviction of Nestorius as a heretic. Angered at having undertaken such a long and arduous journey only to have been pre-empted by actions taken by Cyril's council, John and the Syrian bishops held their own Council with Candidian presiding.[29][30] This council condemned Cyril for espousing the Arian, Apollinarian and Eunomian heresies and condemned Memnon for inciting violence. The bishops at this council deposed both Cyril and Memnon.[6] Initially, the emperor concurred with the actions of John's council but eventually withdrew his concurrence.[citation needed] [edit] Second Session - July 10The second session was held in Memnon's episcopal residence. Philip, as papal legate, opened the proceedings by commenting that the present question regarding Nestorius had already been decided by Pope Celestine as evidenced by his letter which had been read to the assembled bishops in the first session. He indicated that he had a second letter from Celestine which was read to the bishops now in attendance. The letter contained a general exhortation to the council, and concluded by saying that the legates had instructions to carry out what the pope had decided on the question and expressed Celestine's confidence that the council would agree. The bishops indicated their approval by acclaiming Celestine and Cyril. Projectus indicated that the papal letter enjoined the council to put into effect the sentence pronounced by Celestine. Firmus, the Exarch of Caesarea in Cappadocia, responded that the pope's sentence had already been carried out in the first session. The session closed with the reading of the pope's letter to the emperor.[23] [edit] Third Session - July 11Having read the Acts of the first session, the papal legates indicated that all that was required was that the council's condemnation of Nestorius be formally read in their presence. When this had been done, the three legates each confirmed the council's actions, signing the Acts of all three sessions. The council sent a letter to Theodosius indicating that the condemnation of Nestorius had been agreed upon not only by the bishops of the East meeting in Ephesus but also of the bishops of the West who had convened at a synod in Rome convened by Celestine. The bishops asked Theodosius to allow them to go home since so many of them suffered from their presence at Ephesus.[23] [edit] Fourth Session - July 16At the fourth session, Cyril and Memnon presented a formal protest against John of Antioch for convening a separate conciliabulum. The council issued a summons for him to appear before them, but he would not even receive the envoys who were sent to serve him the summons.[23] [edit] Fifth Session - July 17 This section requires expansion. [edit] Sixth SessionAt this session, the bishops approved Canon 7 which condemned any departure from the creed established by the First Council of Nicaea, in particular an exposition by the priest Charisius. According to a report from Cyril to Celestine, Juvenal of Jerusalem tried and failed to create for himself a patriarchate from the territory of the Antiochene patriarchate in which his see lay. He ultimately succeeded in this goal twenty years later at the Council of Chalcedon.[23] [edit] Seventh Session - July 31At this session, the council approve the claim of the bishops of Cyprus that their see had been anciently and rightly exempt from the jurisdiction of Antioch. The council also passed five canons condemning Nestorius and Caelestius and their followers as heretics and a sixth one decreeing deposition from clerical office or excommunication for those who did not accept the Council's decrees. [edit] Canons and declarations Cyril of AlexandriaThe Council denounced Nestorius' teaching as erroneous and decreed that Jesus was one person, not two separate people: complete God and complete man, with a rational soul and body. The Virgin Mary was to be called Theotokos a Greek word that means "God-bearer" (the one who gave birth to God). The Council declared it "unlawful for any man to bring forward, or to write, or to compose a different (ἑτέραν) Faith as a rival to that established by the holy Fathers assembled with the Holy Ghost in Nicæa".[31] It did not specify whether it meant the Nicene Creed as adopted by the First Council of Nicaea in 325, or as added to and modified by the First Council of Constantinople in 381. In addition to its condemnation of Nestorianism, the council also condemned Pelagianism.[32] Eight canons[33] were passed: Canon 1-5 condemned Nestorius and Caelestius and their followers as heretics Canon 6 decreed deposition from clerical office or excommunication for those who did not accept the Council's decrees Canon 7 condemned any departure from the creed established by the First Council of Nicaea, in particular an exposition by the priest Charisius. Canon 8 condemned interference by the Bishop in affairs of the Church in Cyprus and decreed generally, so that no bishop was to "assume control of any province which has not heretofore, from the very beginning, been under his own hand or that of his predecessors ... the Canons of the Fathers be transgressed".[34] [edit] Confirmation of the Council's ActsThe bishops at Cyril's council outnumbered those at John of Antioch's council by nearly four to one. In addition, they had the agreement of the papal legates and the support of the population of Ephesus who supported their bishop, Memnon. However, Count Candidian and his troops supported Nestorius as did Count Irenaeus. The emperor had always been a staunch supporter of Nestorius, but had been somewhat shaken by the reports of the council. Cyril's group was unable to communicate with the emperor because of interference from supporters of Nestorius both at Constantinople and at Ephesus. Ultimately, a messenger disguised as a beggar was able to carry a letter to Constantinople by secreting it in a hollow cane. Although Emperor Theodosius had long been a staunch supporter of Nestorius, his loyalty seems to have been shaken by the reports from Cyril's council and caused him to arrive at the extraordinary decision to ratify the depositions decreed by both councils. Thus, he declared that Cyril, Memnon, and John were all deposed. Memnon and Cyril were kept in close confinement. But in spite of all the efforts of the Antiochene party, the representatives of the envoys whom the council was eventually allowed to send, with the legate Philip, to the Court, persuaded the emperor to accept Cyril's council as the true one. Seeing the writing on the wall and anticipating his fate, Nestorius requested permission to retire to his former monastery. The synod was dissolved in the beginning of October, and Cyril arrived amid much joy at Alexandria on 30 October. Pope Celestine had died on July 27 but his successor, Sixtus III, gave papal confirmation to the council's actions. [edit] AftermathFurther information: Church of the East Major christological schisms and related early councilsThe events created a major schism between the followers of the different versions of the council, which was only mended by difficult negotiations. The factions that supported John of Antioch acquiesced in the condemnation of Nestorius and, after additional clarifications, accepted the decisions of Cyril's council. However, the rift would open again during the debates leading up to the Council of Chalcedon. Nestorian priests in a procession on Palm Sunday, in a 7th- or 8th-century wall painting from a Nestorian church in ChinaPersia had long been home to a Christian community that had been persecuted by the Zoroastrian majority, which had accused it of Roman leanings. In 424, the Persian Church declared itself independent of the Byzantine and all other churches, in order to ward off allegations of foreign allegiance. Following the Nestorian Schism, the Persian Church increasingly aligned itself with the Nestorians, a measure encouraged by the Zoroastrian ruling class. The Persian Church became increasingly Nestorian in doctrine over the next decades, furthering the divide between Christianity in Persia and in the Roman Empire. In 486 the Metropolitan of Nisibis, Barsauma, publicly accepted Nestorius' mentor, Theodore of Mopsuestia, as a spiritual authority. In 489 when the School of Edessa in Mesopotamia was closed by Byzantine Emperor Zeno for its Nestorian teachings, the school relocated to its original home of Nisibis, becoming again the School of Nisibis, leading to a wave of Nestorian immigration into Persia. The Persian patriarch Mar Babai I (497–502) reiterated and expanded upon the church's esteem for Theodore, solidifying the church's adoption of Nestorianism.[35] [edit] ConciliationThe essential issue at the Council over the Virgin Mary was resolved in the 1994 Common Christological Declaration between the Catholic Church and the Assyrian Church of the East, removing the dispute between those two churches. [edit] References^ Anthony McGuckin, Saint Cyril of Alexandria and the Christological Controversy (St. Vladimir Seminary Press ISBN 9780881412598), p. 12 ^ McGuckin, pp. 19-21 ^ Gabra, Gawdat (2009). The A to Z of the Coptic Church. Scarecrow Press. p. 97. ^ McGuckin, p. 21 ^ McGuckin, pp. 22-23 ^ a b c d Kelly, Joseph (2009). The ecumenical councils of the Catholic Church: a history. Liturgical Press. http://books.google.com/books?id=Pg35WfMdM-QC&pg=PT74&dq=%22Council+of+Ephesus%22+Candidian&hl=en&ei=nk5_Tq3IKOfUiALjgLW6Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22Council%20of%20Ephesus%22%20Candidian&f=false. ^ McGuckin, pp. 53-54 ^ McGuckin, p. 53 ^ "Saint Cyril of Alexandria and the Council of Ephesus". http://www.lacopts.org/articles/saint-cyril-of-alexandria-and-the-council-of-ephesus. Retrieved 2011-09-25. ^ Catholic Encyclopedia ^ Robertson, James C. (1854). History of the Christian Church. John Murray. p. 405. http://books.google.com/books?id=zdAAAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA405&dq=%22Council+of+Ephesus%22+Candidian&hl=en&ei=tR6ETpT0GcfTiAK63fXTDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22Council%20of%20Ephesus%22%20Candidian&f=false. ^ McGuckin, p. 54 ^ James Craigie Robertson (1854). History of the Christian Church. John Murray. pp. 405–. http://books.google.com/books?id=zdAAAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA405. Retrieved 8 October 2011. ^ McGuckin, p.55 ^ McGuckin, pp. 57-58 ^ McGuckin, pp. 54-56 ^ McGuckin, p. 57 ^ McGuckin, p. 57 ^ McGuckin, J (2004). Saint Cyril of Alexandria and the Christological Controversy. NY: St Vladimir's Seminary Press. p. 78. "Nonetheless he must have been acutely aware that he could claim no legal status for his synod under imperial law until the official reading of the Emperor's Sacra had taken place." ^ McGuckin, p. 60 ^ McGuckin, pp. 60-65 ^ McGuckin, pp. 58-59 ^ a b c d e "Catholic Encyclopedia". http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=4311. ^ McGuckin, p. 77 ^ Catholic Encyclopedia ^ McGuckin, pp. 77-78 ^ Gibbon. The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. p. 115. ^ McGuckin, J (2004). Saint Cyril of Alexandria and the Christological Controversy. NY: St Vladimir's Seminary Press. p. 79. ^ McGuckin, p. 59 ^ J. B. Bury (1958). History of the later Roman Empire from the death of Theodosius I to the death of Justinian. Courier Dover Publications. pp. 353–. ISBN 978-0-486-20398-0. http://books.google.com/books?id=Jn3pi1wWBNsC&pg=PA353. Retrieved 8 October 2011. ^ Canon VII ^ Excursus on Canon IV ^ The Canons of the Two Hundred Holy and Blessed Fathers Who Met at Ephesus ^ Canon VIII ^ "Nestorian". Encyclopedia Britannica. Retrieved January 28, 2010. [edit] SourcesBellitto, Christopher M. The General Councils: a History of the Twenty-One Church Councils From Nicaea to Vatican II. Mahwah, New Jersey: Paulist P, 2002. 22-25. [edit] External linksEight canons promulgated by the Council of Ephesus Medieval Sourcebook: Documents and letters concerning the Council of Ephesus Extracts from the Acts of the council Catholic Encyclopedia: Ephesus, Council of Michael J. Svigel, "The Phantom Heresy:Did the Council of Ephesus (431) Condemn Chiliasm?" (Note that while this article argues that chiliasm was not explicitly condemned at this council, the line in the Nicene Creed stating that "His [Jesus'] kingdom shall have no end" is often interpreted as having been inserted in opposition to chiliasm, and this creed was reaffirmed by this council. In particular, if the Kingdom of Christ shall have no end, then it will not terminate after 1000 years, and it is argued that it was with this intent that the phrase was added.) Council of Ephesus [show]v · d · eEcumenical councils — (See also First seven Ecumenical Councils) Councils recognized by: Councils names (with year) West & East E. Orthodox, Roman Catholic & Old Catholic Nicaea I (325) · Constantinople I (381) · Ephesus (431) · Chalcedon (451) · Constantinople II (553) · Constantinople III (680–81) · Nicaea II (787) Eastern Orthodox only & partly recognized Quinisext Council (692) · Constantinople IV (879–80) · Constantinople V (1341–51) · Synod of Jerusalem (1672) Roman Catholic only Constantinople IV (869–70) · Lateran I (1123) · Lateran II (1139) · Lateran III (1179) · Lateran IV (1215) · Lyon I (1245) · Lyon II (1274) · Vienne (1311–12) · Constance (1414–18) · Florence (1431–45) · Lateran V (1512–14) · Trent (1545–63) · Vatican I (1869–70) · Vatican II (1962–65) Reformed (Calvinism) only Synod of Dort (1618–19) · Westminster Assembly (1643–49) Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvinists & other Protestants recognize the first four of these councils, and in some cases the first seven. 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63 posted on 11/23/2011 7:11:17 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

What kind of mess was that? If you think I’m going to give that a minutes time forget about it.


64 posted on 11/23/2011 7:14:16 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

I read it without pausing to breathe once!


65 posted on 11/23/2011 7:15:06 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: CynicalBear

it’s posted to expose your “untruths” about what the Council of Ephesus taught.

the know nothings don’t realize the Council had everything to do with the person of Jesus Christ and His divinity and absolutely nothing to do with worshipping Diana.

these aren’t even good untruths, you must be having an off day. get some rest and try again tomorrow.


66 posted on 11/23/2011 7:18:03 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: rzman21
My Eastern Orthodox acquaintance who pays attention to Roman Catholic Church politics was aghast when Pope Benedict named Archbishop Levada to succeed him.

Since Pope Benedict was first introduced to me by what his colleagues thought of him, that he has a "towering intellect" and a "backbone of tempered steel" I am going to have to go with HIS decisions about personnel.
No disrepect to your Eastern Orthodox acquaintance.

67 posted on 11/23/2011 7:35:02 PM PST by cloudmountain
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; CynicalBear

Paragraphs and HTML are your friends.


68 posted on 11/23/2011 7:35:33 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Photobucket

69 posted on 11/23/2011 7:36:10 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: CynicalBear
What kind of mess was that? If you think I’m going to give that a minutes time forget about it.

Lol.

70 posted on 11/23/2011 7:36:43 PM PST by cloudmountain
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To: Revolting cat!
I read it without pausing to breathe once!

Lol.

The guy musta had a HATEFUL Englaish grammar teacher....especially at the time of punctuation.

71 posted on 11/23/2011 7:38:26 PM PST by cloudmountain
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; smvoice; metmom; boatbums
>> these aren’t even good untruths, you must be having an off day<<

You don’t even know your church history?

First Council of Ephesus
Canons and declarations

The Virgin Mary was to be called Theotokos a Greek word that means "God-bearer" (the one who gave birth to God). [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/First_Council_of_Ephesus]

And from catholictradition. Org

It is a common notion to summarize the Council of Ephesus as the event "where Mary's title, Mother of God, was defended and solemnly proclaimed." This is, of course, true.

http://catholictradition.org/Mary/council-ephesus2.htm

72 posted on 11/23/2011 8:07:27 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear; one Lord one faith one baptism; metmom; boatbums

If they hang around here reading non-Catholics posts long enough, they just might learn their church history...;)


73 posted on 11/23/2011 8:16:36 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing is for an eternity..)
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To: smvoice; one Lord one faith one baptism; metmom; boatbums

Yet they have the audacity to call us liars.


74 posted on 11/23/2011 8:21:47 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear; metmom; boatbums; smvoice

i suggest you look up “Nestorius” and “Nestorianism”, educate yourself and stop making a fool of yourself.

i know nothings like knowing nothing, but just for kicks some may want to actually read and learn.

but, it’s more fun telling “untruths” i know, you see the natural man must do the will of his father.

Jesus said so.

this may suprise the know nothings, but Christians believe Jesus is God. Christians believe He always was God and always will be God. Christians also believe that Mary bore Jesus in her womb. Christians believe the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and Jesus was conceived.
it also may suprise the know nothings that Christians believe Mary is to be called Theotokos, which means God bearer.
Why do Christians believe this? Because Mary bore Jesus, who is God, therefore she is rightly called “God bearer”

uh oh, the know nothings just got an education on Christianity!!


75 posted on 11/23/2011 8:21:51 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: CynicalBear; metmom; smvoice; boatbums

no, no no, the RM says calling someone a “liar” is against the rules.

therefore, i can only point out the “untruths” being told.

like.....the council of ephesus was about the Church embracing the pagan practice of worshipping diana.

LOL!!

like i said, you must be tired from eating the turkey early, that’s not even a good “untruth”

i suggest you rest up and the god of this world will inspire a much better “untruth” for you to tell.

i have confidence in you!!


76 posted on 11/23/2011 8:27:26 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: metmom

Please point where I offered ANY excuse and justification for this sort of dissent. The issue I had is the presentation of this kind of moral heresy as Catholic teaching, which it isn’t. Catholic moral teaching on homosexuality is crystal clear. The Episcopalian homosexual activist referredd to here is a PROTESTANT, and he is introducing his Protestant subjective approach to sexual morality into the Catholic Church, granted with the connivance of homosexualists dissenters within the Church. But the sinful actions of Catholics, including priests, and any lack of discipline of them, changes not one whit of the correct moral teaching on homosexuality handed down from the Apostles. Protestants, without any teaching authority founded on the successor of Peter and the apostles, will inevitably go the way of moral heresy, since inclination to sexual sin is very strong in fallen man, and without any authoritative teaching, people will find justification and excuses.


77 posted on 11/23/2011 8:31:05 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Did you not read post 72? Or did you not comprehend?


78 posted on 11/23/2011 8:36:23 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

And Catholic bashers are out in force tonight.


79 posted on 11/23/2011 8:37:18 PM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade, There are only two sides. Pick one.)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; CynicalBear; metmom; boatbums
You..a teacher? You don't even know the meaning of your own screen name.lol!

As a "teacher of Christianity" you are the Waffle House of Brennan's. But I'm sure that is making it personal, so I can't say that. You SEEM to be the Waffle House of Brennan's.

80 posted on 11/23/2011 8:38:10 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing is for an eternity..)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; metmom; boatbums; smvoice
>> i suggest you look up “Nestorius” and “Nestorianism”, educate yourself and stop making a fool of yourself.<<

I suggest you look up what happened in sessions 4,5,6 and 7 after they dispensed with the issue with Nestorius.

81 posted on 11/23/2011 8:39:13 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear; smvoice; metmom; boatbums

did you post #27 or did someone break into your house and post that under your name?

post #72 doesn’t say the Church embraced the pagan practice of worshipping diana at the Council of Ephesus, post #27 makes that untrue charge.

people who tell “untruths” have a hard time keeping their stories straight, do you notice that?

i also notice all the other “christians” on here that know #27 is an “untruth”, but saying nothing to defend the truth.

they loved the “untruth” more than the truth.

sad.


82 posted on 11/23/2011 8:42:52 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: CynicalBear

Jesus Christ is God, the second person of the holy Trinity. He is one person with two natures, human and divine. Mary was the human mother of Jesus Christ, and hence “Mother of God”. I guess you and the others that take cheap shots at the Council of Ephesus and go on about the pagan “Diana” are Nestorians rather than Orthodox Christians.


83 posted on 11/23/2011 8:42:58 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: sageb1; CynicalBear; metmom; smvoice; boatbums

always my friend, always.

the devil never sleeps. and he always attacks the Church.


84 posted on 11/23/2011 8:44:21 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: metmom

ZOUNDS, Sounds like my old friend Paul, he was really something.


85 posted on 11/23/2011 8:45:06 PM PST by BooBoo1000 ("Think for yourself")
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To: smvoice

i am schooling you a lot lately.

Christianity is true my friend.


86 posted on 11/23/2011 8:46:17 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Unam Sanctam; CynicalBear; metmom; smvoice

their head is going to burst if you give them too much truth at once.

you lost them at Jesus Christ is God.


87 posted on 11/23/2011 8:48:20 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Morgana

YES Sister, you get my vote, Praise the Lord.


88 posted on 11/23/2011 8:53:30 PM PST by BooBoo1000 ("Think for yourself")
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To: Morgana

YES Sister, you get my vote, Praise the Lord.


89 posted on 11/23/2011 8:53:38 PM PST by BooBoo1000 ("Think for yourself")
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; CynicalBear; metmom; boatbums
The devil doesn't give a rip about your church. He has that, already. What he cares about is the preaching of the Cross. That is his torment. That was his downfall and his complete destruction. It's just a matter of time before it's over for him. You know what's taking so long? God's patience. He's not willing that any should perish. He has given the Church the Body of Christ a commission to preach. The reconciliation of God and man through the finished work of Christ. 2 Cor. 5:14-21. And He is awaiting the last person to believe and be made part of the Body. Every day He gives us is another day to give someone the gospel of their salvation. But it won't last forever.

Your church figures in no way in this, except for the fact of the apostacy and the future of her. He is not saving groups, or institutions, or nations. He is saving individuals right now. Whosoever believes.

90 posted on 11/23/2011 8:53:55 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing is for an eternity..)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Yes, Christianity IS true my friend. However, Catholicism is NOT, my friend.


91 posted on 11/23/2011 8:56:06 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing is for an eternity..)
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To: CynicalBear; smvoice; metmom; boatbums

which of those four sessions ( 4, 5, 6 or 7 )
did they declare that diana is to be worshipped?

you are up.

( did anyone ever tell you if you are in a hole, you should stop digging? )


92 posted on 11/23/2011 8:58:17 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: smvoice

keep reading my posts, you will become a Christian eventually.


93 posted on 11/23/2011 9:00:48 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; smvoice; metmom; boatbums

Diana was the original “queen of heaven” in Ephesus. Catholics simply changed the name. Jesus nor the Apostles ever sanctioned anything like the veneration of Mary. “Queen of heaven” is a pagan belief adopted by Catholics to attract pagans to the church. That entire practice has been called an abomination by God and is recorded as far back as Jeremiah.


94 posted on 11/23/2011 9:03:45 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Unam Sanctam

Go back and read Jeremiah to see what God thinks of the whole “queen of heaven” concept.


95 posted on 11/23/2011 9:05:17 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

I was attacked by a Protestant girl when I was in 6th grade. 1963. We were waiting for a cab to take us to church school and a classmate came up to us and yelled that we thought we were better than everyone else. We were in shock because we’d never been taught that. It was many years later that I realized how many kids had been taught to hate Catholics. What Christians really need to be railing against is left versus right instead of denominations. The Church is not the enemy. Leftists invade all denominations. They are the enemy.


96 posted on 11/23/2011 9:05:38 PM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade, There are only two sides. Pick one.)
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To: CynicalBear; smvoice; boatbums; metmom

that’s all very interesting.

can you answer my question, post #27 says the Council of Ephesus adopted the pagan practice of worshipping diana.

did this happen in session 4, 5, 6 or 7?

you are up.


97 posted on 11/23/2011 9:07:23 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: smvoice; one Lord one faith one baptism; metmom; boatbums
>> The devil doesn't give a rip about your church. He has that, already.<<

And it’s end will be rather fiery and dramatic.

98 posted on 11/23/2011 9:08:48 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

4,5, 6 or 7?


99 posted on 11/23/2011 9:15:11 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
It’s written about here: http://catholictradition.org/Mary/council-ephesus2.htm

"Mother of God"

It is a common notion to summarize the Council of Ephesus as the event "where Mary's title, Mother of God, was defended and solemnly proclaimed." This is, of course, true.

Do your own research about the history of your church.

100 posted on 11/23/2011 9:15:58 PM PST by CynicalBear
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