Skip to comments.Covington Bishop: No holding hands during mass
Posted on 11/30/2011 5:08:01 PM PST by TSgt
COVINGTON, Ky. - Bishop Roger Foys of the Covington Diocese decreed that parishioners should not hold hands during the Lord's Prayer.
In his decree Bishop Foys writes:
Special note should also be made concerning the gesture for the Our Father. Only the priest is given the instruction to "extend" his hands. Neither the deacon nor the lay faithful are instructed to do this. No gesture is prescribed for the lay faithful in the Roman Missal ; nor the General Instruction of the Roman Missal , therefore the extending or holding of hands by the faithful should not be performed.
"I'm a little bit surprised," said Dan Ryan of Edgewood.
9 News spoke Ryan as he picked up his son from Covington Catholic High School.
"It helps keep us together as a family you know the motto that says a family that prays together stays together. I think there's a whole lot of room for interpretation there I think again we're talking about individual decisions and individual options there should be some discretion it sounds like to me," said Ryan.
"First, I didn't know that was an edict that Bishop Foys made but my family and I do hold hands while we say the Lord's Prayer but the way I feel about it is if that is not part of liturgy then we will follow the liturgy," said J. Zang of Crestview Hills.
In a statement to 9News diocesan spokesman Tim Fitzgerald said, "Bishop Foys purpose [in issuing the decree] was to reiterate the directives guiding the celebration of the Mass as specified by the Second Vatican Council and related Vatican documents, fulfilling his role as chief teacher of the diocese; he did so as the new translation of the Roman Missal was first used in the diocese and in the United States last weekend. The decree concerned the proper texts of Mass prayers; liturgical music; gestures for priests, deacons, religious and lay faithful; the location of the choir and other musicians; and prayerful silence before and after Mass.
Peter was the leader:
1. Jesus named him Rock (check for rock references in Isaiah again)
2. he gave him the keys
3. he told him to “feed my sheep”
4. read what the early church (i.e. post Acts) thought - nobody thought James was the leader and everyone thought Peter was the leader.
If your views are right how come nobody thought the way you did for 1500 years.
Heres the ESVA version of Isaiah 31:9
Isaiah 31:9 His rock shall pass away in terror, and his officers desert the standard in panic, (ESVA) (English Standard Version Anglicised)
The problem with that version is that its translated in a way that leads the reader in English to a wrong idea. The word translated rock there means a stronghold. The armies would have areas they considered strongholds but God is saying even their strongholds wont protect them when He comes against them.
Look at the King James translation.
Isaiah 31:9 And he shall pass over to his strong hold for fear, and his princes shall be afraid of the ensign, saith the LORD, whose fire is in Zion, and his furnace in Jerusalem. (KJV) Compare to Judges 20:47 But six hundred men turned and fled to the wilderness unto the rock Rimmon, and abode in the rock Rimmon four months. The rock Rimmon was their stronghold.
The same word is used in Isaiah 26.
Isaiah 26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength: (some translations have rock)
Sine Jehovah is a fake word I have some problems with your translation. But I digress...
So I am Catholic, what is your denomination since it rejects Peter’s primacy? I would like to know.
Also do you think that examining the views of the early church (first 100 years or so) is useful for interpretting scripture?
LOL Pigeon holing are you?
JHVH - Tetragrammaton
Like this one:"Peter was "Apostle to the Circumcision."
I bet that this was taken from a book outside the bible. I doubt this was figured alone just by scripture. Which shows for some to believe this they have to go outside the bible. It's kind of funny when you declare only the bible. Which takes away the solo scripture. Just typical " Sola Scriptural" hogwash like it wrote itself. The church came first was fully established, They wrote the bible. Not to be bible alone so 7000 ways to sunday worship only interpretion by millions.
They accuse the Catholic Church of mishandling the word but come up with this definition. Proably never heard until the last 500 years.
Heres what Paul said about Peter.
Galatians 2:8 For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me (Paul) toward the Gentiles: (KJV)
>>I bet that this was taken from a book outside the bible. I doubt this was figured alone just by scripture.<<
Galatians 2:8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. (NIV)
>>Which shows for some to believe this they have to go outside the bible. It's kind of funny when you declare only the bible. Which takes away the solo scripture.<<
Galatians 2:7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised (NASB)
>>They accuse the Catholic Church of mishandling the word but come up with this definition. Proably never heard until the last 500 years.<<
Galatians 2: 8 for he that wrought for Peter unto the apostleship of the circumcision wrought for me also unto the Gentiles; (ASV)
Do Catholics read ANY version of the Bible?
Jesus said to them again, Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.
Sorry, I am not buying that. Dictating posture for prayer? Really?
So you think he stayed that way. Just from that letter alone.
So lets run up another wacky repeat ping of nonsense repeats. All been written on these threads.
I dont know what you use for scripture but I think Ill just let you figure things out with whatever it is you read or follow. K?
Have you never read ACTS and how Peter stands up at the First Council and settles the argument with Paul.
It’s right there in the Bible. The Council of Jerusalem.
So you did not read this in a outside author’s book then look it up in the bible? You read scripture first since you were a kid not looking up outside books to get ideas what a verse means? It’s only the bible? Let’s be honest. You are pure Sola Scriptura. No outside ideas? Never read an outside book to influence you?
Do the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John pertain only to the Jews?
The Greek bible and the ESV (my favorite) do not use the “apostle to/of the uncircumcised” language.
But the Greek Bible was translated from the KJV so it might not be right./sarc
Romans 11:13 Now I [PAUL] am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry
1 Timothy 2:7 For this I [Paul] was appointed a preacher and an apostle ( I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
Galatians 2:7-9 7On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8(for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
Yep, I have read and studied it. Peter stands to affirm that indeed the Jews and the Gentiles should all be the same when it comes to salvation. Then it was Barnabas and Pauls turn after which it was James who at the end of the conference gives his decision.
Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. 13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Clearly it was James who was the leader in Jerusalem.