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Why the need for secret death oaths in the LDS Temple Endowment Ceremony? [Secretive Mormon church]
i4m.com (Rethinking Mormonism) ^

Posted on 12/11/2011 7:30:58 AM PST by Colofornian

God Doesn't Need Secrecy or Death Oaths

Book of Mormon, Ether 8:19

"For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations, neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but in all things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man."

Satan Uses Death Oaths, Especially Oaths of Secrecy and Loyalty

Book of Moses 5:29

"And Satan said unto Cain: Swear unto me by thy throat, and if thou tell it thou shalt die; and swear thy brethren by their heads, and by the living God, that they tell it not; for if they tell it, they shall surely die;"

Book of Mormon, Helaman 6:21-22

"But behold, Satan did stir up the hearts of the more part of the Nephites, insomuch that they did unite with those bands of robbers, and did enter into their covenants and their oaths, that they would protect and preserve one another in whatsoever difficult circumstances they should be placed...they did have their signs, yea, their secret signs, and their secret words; and this that they might distinguish a brother who had entered into the covenant..."

The Prophet Joseph Smith Condemned Oaths of Secrecy

"I would further suggest the impropriety of the organization of bands or companies, by covenant or oath, by penalties or secrecies; but let the time past of our experience and sufferings by the wickedness of Doctor Avard suffice and let our covenant be that of the Everlasting Covenant, as contained in the Holy Writ and the things that God hath revealed to us. Pure friendship always becomes weakened the very moment you undertake to make it stronger by penalty oaths and secrecy."

- The Prophet Joseph Smith, "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," p. 146

Death Oaths Made by All Mormon Temple Patrons Prior to the 1930's:

ADAM : "We, and each of us, covenant and promise that we will not reveal any of the secrets of this, the first token of the Aaronic priesthood, with its accompanying name, sign or penalty. Should we do so, we agree that our throats be cut from ear to ear and our tongues torn out by their roots."

ADAM: "All bow your heads and say Yes."

TEMPLE PATRONS: "Yes." (All patrons sit down.)

PETER: "The brethren and sisters will now stand, push back the seats, place the robe on the left shoulder, and receive the Second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood. We and each of us do covenant and promise that we will not reveal the secrets of this, the Second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name, sign, grip or penalty. Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

"All bow your heads and say yes."

TEMPLE PATRONS: "Yes." (All patrons sit down.)

PETER: "We and each of us do covenant and promise that we will not reveal any of the secrets of this, the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, with its accompanying name, sign or penalty. Should we do so, we agree that our bodies be cut asunder in the midst and all our bowels gush out."

"All bow your heads and say yes."

TEMPLE PATRONS: "Yes." (All patrons sit down.)

Death Oaths Made by All Mormon Temple Patrons from the 1930's until April 1990:

Mormon Temple Death Oath #1:

ELOHIM: "All arise." (All patrons stand.)

ELOHIM: "Each of you make the sign of the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, by bringing your right arm to the square, the palm of the hand to the front, the fingers together, and the thumb extended. This is the sign. Now, repeat in your mind after me the words of the covenant, at the same time representing the execution of the penalty."

"I ________, think of the new name, covenant before God, angels and these witnesses that I will never reveal the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name and sign, and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken."

(Patrons perform the action as the Officiator guides them.)

"That will do." (Patrons sit down.)

Mormon Death Oath #2:

PETER: "The sign is made by bringing the right hand in front of you, with the hand in cupping shape, the right arm forming a square, and the left arm being raised to the square. This is the sign. (The officiator demonstrates.) The Execution of the Penalty is represented by placing the right hand on the left breast, drawing the hand quickly across the body, and dropping the hands to the sides. I will now explain the covenant and obligation of secrecy which are associated with this token, its name, and sign, and penalty, and which you will be required to take upon yourselves."

PETER: "All arise. (All Patrons stand.) Each of you make the sign of the Second Token of the Aaronic priesthood by bringing the right hand in front of you, with the hand in cupping shape, the right arm forming a square, and the left arm being raised to the square. This is the sign."

"Now, repeat in your mind after me the words of the covenant, at the same time representing the Executing of the Penalty."

"I, _________, think of the first given name, solemnly covenant, before God, angels, and these witnesses that I will never reveal the second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name, and sign, and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken."

(Patrons perform the action as the Officiator guides them.)

"That will do." (All patrons sit down.)

Mormon Temple Death Oath #3:

PETER: "All arise. (All patrons stand.) Each of you make the sign of the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood or Sign of the Nail by brining the left hand in front of you with the hand in cupping shape, the left arm forming a square; also by bringing the right hand is also brought forward, the palm down, the fingers close together, the thumb extended, and by placing the thumb over the left hip. This is the sign."

"Now repeat in your mind after me the words of the covenant, at the same time representing the Execution of the Penalty:"

"I solemnly covenant in the name of the Son that I will never reveal the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood or Sign of the Nail, with its accompanying name,and sign and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken."

(Patrons perform the action as the Officiator guides them.)

"That will do." (All patrons sit down.)

Even today, Mormon Temple patrons make the oaths of secrecy above, although without the gruesome penalties.

Also, all Mormon Temple Patrons today still make an oath to sacrifice their lives and all they posses for the church:

TEMPLE NARRATOR: (All patrons stand.) "And as Jesus Christ has laid down his life for the redemption of mankind, so we should covenant to sacrifice all that we possess, even our own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God."

"All arise. Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of you solemnly covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this alter that you will observe and keep the Law of Sacrifice, as contained in the Old and New Testament, as it has been explained to you. Each of you bow your head and say "yes.""

TEMPLE PATRONS: "Yes."

ELOHIM: "That will do." (All patrons sit down.)

TEMPLE NARRATOR: (All patrons stand.) "Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in this, (The Officiator holds up a copy of the Doctrine and Covenants again.), the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion."

Each of you bow your head and say "yes."

TEMPLE PATRONS: "Yes."

PETER: "That will do." (All patrons sit down.)

So why does God need death oaths in the temple covenants?

If these death oaths were necessary for exaltation, then why were they removed from the covenants?

Is it any wonder that faithful Mormons will give up everything, including their own family members and integrity to the cause of the church?

It's likely that death oaths were originally introduced into the endowment ceremony in order to conceal the secret practice of polygamy in Nauvoo. For details, see: http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temple_legacy.htm

Why else would God need us to make death oaths of secrecy or loyalty?


TOPICS: Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: inman; lds; mormon; secrets; temple
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The Book of Mormon condemns "secret combinations." For example, even more explicitly, it says: "But behold, Satan did stir up the hearts of the more part of the Nephites, insomuch that they did unite with those bands of robbers, and did enter into their covenants and their oaths, that they would protect and preserve one another in whatsoever difficult circumstances they should be placed... they did have their signs, yea, their secret signs, and their secret words; and this that they might distinguish a brother who had entered into the covenant..."

IOW...covenants and oaths that depend upon "secret signs" and "secret words" that would, Masonic-like, "distinguish a brother who had entered into the covenant" was condemned as Satanic in the 1830 Book of Mormon.

But guess what? The Mormon church ignored their own Book of Mormon and transplanted Masonic-like death oaths into their secret Mormon temple worship between the latter 1920s til 1990!

Even today, they retain the oath Mitt Romney took:

From the article: ...all Mormon Temple Patrons today still make an oath to sacrifice their lives and all they posses for the church: TEMPLE NARRATOR: (All patrons stand.) "And as Jesus Christ has laid down his life for the redemption of mankind, so we should covenant to sacrifice all that we possess, even our own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God."

Of course, to the Mormon, "the Kingdom of God"=the Mormon church. And people wonder what Romney might do on behalf of the Mormon church when he already has covenanted to "sacrifice all" he has for the church!

From the articleIt's likely that death oaths were originally introduced into the endowment ceremony in order to conceal the secret practice of polygamy in Nauvoo. For details, see: http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temple_legacy.htm

1 posted on 12/11/2011 7:31:04 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Simple lds requires these secret death oaths to maintain control, that’s what cults do - maintain control by any means necessary.


2 posted on 12/11/2011 7:34:19 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Colofornian

those are plagiarized from Masonic rites and rituals


3 posted on 12/11/2011 7:35:12 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Vendome
those are plagiarized from Masonic rites and rituals

Freemasonry and Mormonism share more than just oaths. A lot of Mormon temple buildings are virtually indistinguishable from Masonic temple buildings.

4 posted on 12/11/2011 7:40:21 AM PST by Disambiguator
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To: All
Just posted: ABC Nightline Mormon Secrets meets That 70's show v [v = Roman numeral 5]

90-second YouTube clip posted by just returned ex-Mormon missionary.

5 posted on 12/11/2011 7:42:43 AM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Disambiguator

In what way?


6 posted on 12/11/2011 7:49:20 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: All
Hence, we see Web headlines like: Mormonism's Real Secret Doctrine

Of course, when you have these kind of bizarre beliefs as posted in the previous post, mum's the word.
Secret, secret, secret
Fulness of the gospel NOT in the Book of Mormon. Secret to prospects - they'd look in vain for the primary Mormon teachings to be taught there.
Original "old plates" Joseph supposedly found. Secreted away.
The founder, Joseph not telling wife Emma about women he had affairs with (Fanny & others) 1831 & beyond. Secret.
Mormons not putting the polygamy doctrine in writing until the 1850s. Secret.
Bloody victims' clothes & orphans from Mountain Meadows Massacre, 1857. Secret for two years.
Mountain Meadows Massacre culprits. Conspired amongst each other to never tell. Secret.
Mormonism openly false 19th century teachings like Adam-is-god and blood atonement. Unacknowledged as former teachings. They wish these were a secret.
Mormon polygamists hiding out from the feds in 1880s. Secret hideaways.
Lds Plural marriages 1890-1910. Secret.

Still today:
Lds temple ceremonies. Secret.
Lds weddings in temples. Secret.
Secret underwear power. Very secret.
Mormons believe thousands of deceased Mormons practicing polygamy in another realm. "Open" Secret.
History not "faith promoting" to Lds church and former leaders. Tendency to tuck away. Secreted away.
fLDS families -- the "living daguerreotype" of what 19th century Mainstream Mormon families were often like -- tucked away in out-of-the-way communities. Treated like the crazy aunt to lock away in the basement closet.

No wonder a BYU history prof wrote a book, "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View." "Magic" is a sub-category of the occult. And what does the word "occult" mean? (Yup, Latin for "hidden" -- as in secret).

7 posted on 12/11/2011 7:55:19 AM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: All
Hence, we see Web headlines like: Mormonism's Real Secret Doctrine

Of course, when you have these kind of bizarre beliefs as posted in the previous post, mum's the word.
Secret, secret, secret
Fulness of the gospel NOT in the Book of Mormon. Secret to prospects - they'd look in vain for the primary Mormon teachings to be taught there.
Original "old plates" Joseph supposedly found. Secreted away.
The founder, Joseph not telling wife Emma about women he had affairs with (Fanny & others) 1831 & beyond. Secret.
Mormons not putting the polygamy doctrine in writing until the 1850s. Secret.
Bloody victims' clothes & orphans from Mountain Meadows Massacre, 1857. Secret for two years.
Mountain Meadows Massacre culprits. Conspired amongst each other to never tell. Secret.
Mormonism openly false 19th century teachings like Adam-is-god and blood atonement. Unacknowledged as former teachings. They wish these were a secret.
Mormon polygamists hiding out from the feds in 1880s. Secret hideaways.
Lds Plural marriages 1890-1910. Secret.

Still today:
Lds temple ceremonies. Secret.
Lds weddings in temples. Secret.
Secret underwear power. Very secret.
Mormons believe thousands of deceased Mormons practicing polygamy in another realm. "Open" Secret.
History not "faith promoting" to Lds church and former leaders. Tendency to tuck away. Secreted away.
fLDS families -- the "living daguerreotype" of what 19th century Mainstream Mormon families were often like -- tucked away in out-of-the-way communities. Treated like the crazy aunt to lock away in the basement closet.

No wonder a BYU history prof wrote a book, "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View." "Magic" is a sub-category of the occult. And what does the word "occult" mean? (Yup, Latin for "hidden" -- as in secret).

8 posted on 12/11/2011 7:55:28 AM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: All
Hence, we see Web headlines like: Mormonism's Real Secret Doctrine

Of course, when you have these kind of bizarre beliefs as posted in the previous post, mum's the word.
Secret, secret, secret
Fulness of the gospel NOT in the Book of Mormon. Secret to prospects - they'd look in vain for the primary Mormon teachings to be taught there.
Original "old plates" Joseph supposedly found. Secreted away.
The founder, Joseph not telling wife Emma about women he had affairs with (Fanny & others) 1831 & beyond. Secret.
Mormons not putting the polygamy doctrine in writing until the 1850s. Secret.
Bloody victims' clothes & orphans from Mountain Meadows Massacre, 1857. Secret for two years.
Mountain Meadows Massacre culprits. Conspired amongst each other to never tell. Secret.
Mormonism openly false 19th century teachings like Adam-is-god and blood atonement. Unacknowledged as former teachings. They wish these were a secret.
Mormon polygamists hiding out from the feds in 1880s. Secret hideaways.
Lds Plural marriages 1890-1910. Secret.

Still today:
Lds temple ceremonies. Secret.
Lds weddings in temples. Secret.
Secret underwear power. Very secret.
Mormons believe thousands of deceased Mormons practicing polygamy in another realm. "Open" Secret.
History not "faith promoting" to Lds church and former leaders. Tendency to tuck away. Secreted away.
fLDS families -- the "living daguerreotype" of what 19th century Mainstream Mormon families were often like -- tucked away in out-of-the-way communities. Treated like the crazy aunt to lock away in the basement closet.

No wonder a BYU history prof wrote a book, "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View." "Magic" is a sub-category of the occult. And what does the word "occult" mean? (Yup, Latin for "hidden" -- as in secret).

9 posted on 12/11/2011 7:55:36 AM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: All
Hence, we see Web headlines like: Mormonism's Real Secret Doctrine

Of course, when you have these kind of bizarre beliefs as posted in the previous post, mum's the word.
Secret, secret, secret
Fulness of the gospel NOT in the Book of Mormon. Secret to prospects - they'd look in vain for the primary Mormon teachings to be taught there.
Original "old plates" Joseph supposedly found. Secreted away.
The founder, Joseph not telling wife Emma about women he had affairs with (Fanny & others) 1831 & beyond. Secret.
Mormons not putting the polygamy doctrine in writing until the 1850s. Secret.
Bloody victims' clothes & orphans from Mountain Meadows Massacre, 1857. Secret for two years.
Mountain Meadows Massacre culprits. Conspired amongst each other to never tell. Secret.
Mormonism openly false 19th century teachings like Adam-is-god and blood atonement. Unacknowledged as former teachings. They wish these were a secret.
Mormon polygamists hiding out from the feds in 1880s. Secret hideaways.
Lds Plural marriages 1890-1910. Secret.

Still today:
Lds temple ceremonies. Secret.
Lds weddings in temples. Secret.
Secret underwear power. Very secret.
Mormons believe thousands of deceased Mormons practicing polygamy in another realm. "Open" Secret.
History not "faith promoting" to Lds church and former leaders. Tendency to tuck away. Secreted away.
fLDS families -- the "living daguerreotype" of what 19th century Mainstream Mormon families were often like -- tucked away in out-of-the-way communities. Treated like the crazy aunt to lock away in the basement closet.

No wonder a BYU history prof wrote a book, "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View." "Magic" is a sub-category of the occult. And what does the word "occult" mean? (Yup, Latin for "hidden" -- as in secret).

10 posted on 12/11/2011 7:55:50 AM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: All

sorry about multiple postings...was getting both server prob pop-ups and service unavailable pop-ups & assumed these weren’t posting


11 posted on 12/11/2011 7:57:40 AM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Colofornian

Curse those evil mormons and their policy of “Having a years worth of food on hand for their family” it is all part of their plan to ruin everything and then live off their one year of food while everyone else starves to death.

Don’t they know they are BREAKING THE LAWs that our great savior FDR had put in place during WW-II to prevent Hoarding of precious food supplies....?????

/SARC TAG


12 posted on 12/11/2011 8:28:08 AM PST by GraceG
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To: Colofornian


13 posted on 12/11/2011 8:51:25 AM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas gerit)
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To: Colofornian

Maybe the server is suffering a DOS attack from so many Mormons try to convert it to Mormonism! LOL!


14 posted on 12/11/2011 9:06:49 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Colofornian

“Death Oaths Made by All Mormon Temple Patrons from the 1930’s until April 1990:”

What happened in April of 1990 to have these death oaths rescinded?


15 posted on 12/11/2011 9:08:20 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: svcw

I wonder if Saundra has ever spoken these death oaths? She’ll probably deny it.


16 posted on 12/11/2011 9:09:42 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Colofornian

Still today:
Lds temple ceremonies. Secret.
Lds weddings in temples. Secret.
Secret underwear power. Very secret.

No former Mormons have come forward and written any books or published anything online revealing these secrets? What’s the secret behind the magic underwear?


17 posted on 12/11/2011 9:14:28 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

My guess is no. Only 15% approx are temple worthy. There are dozens of rules that lds have to swear to even get the temple recommendation. Funny side notes, Reid, Huntsman and Romney are all considered “worthy” for that TR.


18 posted on 12/11/2011 9:49:07 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Vendome

The architecture of the buildings is too similar to be coincidence.

This is not a hard and fast rule, but I’ve seen a lot of Masonic temples and Mormon temples that look very much alike.


19 posted on 12/11/2011 11:30:49 AM PST by Disambiguator
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: Jack Hydrazine; reaganaut
What happened in April of 1990 to have these death oaths rescinded?

Very good question.

Multiple reasons actually (which are related to the multiple changes)...reasons that happened both almost simultaneously as well as sequentially.

#1...In the 1970s, the Lds upticked their number of converts from a Christian background:
Since most Mormon converts in the 1970's and 1980's were coming from a Christian background, it was becoming apparent to LDS leaders in the 1980's that ridiculing the Protestant minister in the temple film was offensive to many new converts. There were even some reports of converts attending the temple once, and vowing to never return -- sometimes even refusing to return to any LDS meetings.
Source: Why the temple ceremony was changed in 1990 - LDS-Mormon

What was happening is that during temple endowments (where Mormons learn the secret handshakes that get them into their Heaven), Protestant ministers were portrayed as ‘hirelings of Satan.’ So this was obviously provocative; offensive to say the least.

#2...Whether there was a direct linkage or not, temple attendance was down into the mid-to-late 1980s.

#3..."In 1987, David John Buerger (an active but liberal Mormon), published an article in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, a liberal Mormon publication which is not controlled by the LDS church. In the article, Buerger suggested that LDS church leaders needed to seriously consider making changes in the temple endowment ceremony to counter declining rates of attendance."
Source:
Source: Why the temple ceremony was changed in 1990 - LDS-Mormon

#4..."Although possibly just a coincidence, the Mormon Church issued a survey to about 3,400 members in Canada and the U.S. to determine members' opinions concerning temple work and various other topics only a few months after the 1987 Buerger article. Soon after the 1988 survey, plans were underway to change the endowment ceremony again (the ceremony had been modified many times since its introduction in Nauvoo, Illinois in the early 1840's)."
Source: Why the temple ceremony was changed in 1990 - LDS-Mormon

So, besides the Protestant-ministers-as-hirelings offensive portion removed, what were the other four primary changes?

a. All penalties (and gestures like throat slashing, chest slashing and bowel slashing) were eliminated.

Obviously, 'twas overboard; not very "P.R." oriented; too violent in an increasingly violent late 1980s culture; and too obviously both pagan and Masonic riddled.

b. The strange words "Pay Lay Ale" (meaning "Oh God hear the words of my mouth") were eliminated. Ed Decker says the actual direct meaning of the Hebrew words ("Pele Heylel") is "Marvelous Lucifer"
Source: Is Lucifer the god of the Mormon Temple? [The OTHER World Series]

c. Women's promise to be obedient to husbands was modified.

Ya gotta remember the full emergence of the feminist movement then.

d. The intimate position at the veil (foot to foot, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand on shoulder and mouth to ear) was eliminated.

Yup. I'm sure potential "sexual harassment" issues figured into this change.

Ya just gotta wonder: Did God change his mind about pagan-like rituals? Masonic-riddled rituals?

I know some Web sites exist recording all the ritual changes made periodically. This one did ... but is now defunct: http://www.lds-temple.org/

21 posted on 12/11/2011 12:20:58 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: firebasecody
Simple. The Mormon church has just claimed this week that it isn't "insular" or "secretive."

Stuff like this shows otherwise.

22 posted on 12/11/2011 12:26:30 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Jack Hydrazine; Saundra Duffy; svcw
I wonder if Saundra has ever spoken these death oaths? She’ll probably deny it.

What year did you become a Mormon, Saundra?

23 posted on 12/11/2011 12:36:35 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Colofornian

What if you work your way up into the Mormon church, get your TR, and then start producing YouTube videos of the secrets? What kinds of sanctions or discipline will they throw at you?


24 posted on 12/11/2011 12:59:11 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Colofornian
I have a challenge for you. Instead of stressing over The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, why not try to find out what “secrets” are kept in the bowels of the Vatican. That should keep you occupied for quite some time and you can take a rest from your incessant Morman bashing.
25 posted on 12/11/2011 1:46:34 PM PST by Saundra Duffy ( For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

“What kinds of sanctions or discipline will they throw at you?”

Our Temples are sacred holy places.


26 posted on 12/11/2011 1:51:37 PM PST by Saundra Duffy ( For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Jack Hydrazine

Nope. The lds “temples” are secret.
Sandy are you allowed in?


27 posted on 12/11/2011 1:53:46 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: svcw

Kinda reminds me of a Shiner who told me in one breath the Freemasons aren’t a secret organization. Then in the next breath he related how he went to Egypt with his Freemason brothers and conducted secret rituals in their rooms. I wanted to burst out laughing.

So Mormonism is just like that - A non-secret organization with secrets that if revealed will put you on double secret probation!


28 posted on 12/11/2011 3:47:04 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Jack Hydrazine
Thank you for "answering" with a non-answer. Actually, you're "answer" tells Jack and myself that you were a Mormon by at least April, 1990.

Jack, to answer then your wonderment from post #16 the answer is a probable "yes."

29 posted on 12/11/2011 3:53:19 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
double secret probation ........... Animal House Pictures, Images and Photos
30 posted on 12/11/2011 4:00:52 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: svcw

Romans 1 is the best answer to the cultic secrecy that is employed by Mormons and others.

Read it, and the mumbo-jumbo of heretical sects will appear CLEARLY WRONG in the view of any Biblical Christian.


31 posted on 12/11/2011 4:18:28 PM PST by Scanian
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To: Colofornian

INTREP: They do not want to reveal that Joseph Smith lifted the secret ceremonies from the Masons!


32 posted on 12/11/2011 4:20:48 PM PST by LiteKeeper ("Who is John Galt?")
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To: Scanian
When Jesus was Crucified the Temple curtain was torn from top to bottom, to open the temple that all may enter. No more secrets.
Thanks.
33 posted on 12/11/2011 4:21:30 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Vendome

Why should the Mormon secrecy bother Evangelicals considering that so many Evangelicals are Freemasons?

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/august/7.18.html


34 posted on 12/11/2011 4:22:35 PM PST by rzman21
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To: svcw

When the tabernacle was first established the Holy place could only be approached by certain ones at certain times.

When the veil of the temple was rent in twain certain mysteries were also meant to be unveiled and the unapproachableness (my word) was done away with.


35 posted on 12/11/2011 4:26:36 PM PST by Radix ("..Democrats are holding a meeting today to decide whether to overturn the results of the election.")
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To: rzman21

What’s an Evangelical?


36 posted on 12/11/2011 4:32:09 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: rzman21

I’m a Mason. doesn’t bother me a bit. Just pointing out the obvious from an informed position.


37 posted on 12/11/2011 4:41:59 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Our Temples are sacred holy places.

LOL, full of furniture that looks like it from the foyer of a fancy hotel with a cheap movie to watch.

Restored - ha. Not a single "temple" found in first century excavations or archaeology like a modern mormon temple. Not a restoration of first century Christianity, but a restoration of the same old satanic lies about becoming 'gods'.

38 posted on 12/11/2011 5:57:44 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Colofornian

Have any Mormons ever be killed for giving away the secrets?


39 posted on 12/11/2011 6:06:53 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Colofornian; Jack Hydrazine

Another reason for the changes that isn’t often mentioned was the “Pace Memo” relating to the Satanic Ritual Abuse scare of the early 1990’s. After a 30 month investigation by the Utah AG’s office there was no evidence found. However, about the same time as the changes, Glenn Pace (an LDS General Authority) issued an internal LDS memo that sugguests that the victims had flashbacks when going through the LDS endowment ceremony for the first time which is in part what led to the changes.

The LDS endowment is hyped (even on this thread) as being sacred, but reality is it is silly. Members are constantly told that the temple is the most sacred and most spiritual rituals they will go through - they are primed for this ‘very spiritual experience’, yet most ex-mos admit that their first reaction going through for the first time was “WTH????”.

Here are some links, one to the text of the LDS temple ceremonies now with links to historical ones, one about the Pace Memo written while the AG investigation was just starting (and a huge topic of the news in Utah at the time), and several about peoples reaction to the LDS endowment ceremony.

http://ldsendowment.org/

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no80.htm

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon243.htm

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon285.htm

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon523.htm

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon564.htm

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon033.htm


40 posted on 12/11/2011 6:30:34 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Jack Hydrazine; Colofornian

Have any Mormons ever be killed for giving away the secrets?

- - - - - - -
Not for about 100 years (blood atonement).


41 posted on 12/11/2011 6:32:19 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Colofornian
Why the need for secret death oaths in the LDS Temple Endowment Ceremony? [Secretive Mormon church]

 
Don LeFevre, a past spokesman for the church has said the church,
 
 "...strongly advises its members not to affiliate with organizations that are secret, oath-bound,
 or would cause them to lose interest in church activities."
 
[Salt Lake Tribune Section D1, Monday Feb. 17, 1992]
 
 
There goes all the Temple Recommends!
 

42 posted on 12/12/2011 4:21:25 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Jack Hydrazine; Saundra Duffy
I wonder if Saundra has ever spoken these death oaths? She’ll probably deny it.

She never seems to 'speak' to anything.

She is REALLY good at ignoring though.

43 posted on 12/12/2011 4:31:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Disambiguator
The architecture of the buildings is too similar to be coincidence.



Fantasy Land indeed!

Orlando
San Deigo

44 posted on 12/12/2011 4:32:46 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
Ya just gotta wonder: Did God change his mind about pagan-like rituals? Masonic-riddled rituals?

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President


45 posted on 12/12/2011 4:34:38 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
What year did you become a Mormon, Saundra?

What year did you get your TEmple Recommend®, Saundra?

46 posted on 12/12/2011 4:35:38 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Our Temples are sacred holy places.

Can YOU enter them?

47 posted on 12/12/2011 4:36:47 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Saundra Duffy
“What kinds of sanctions or discipline will they throw at you?”

Even with NO YT videos; folks can SEE what kinds of stuff gets 'thrown' at Apostate MORMONs right here on FR!

48 posted on 12/12/2011 4:38:00 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Saundra Duffy
“What kinds of sanctions or discipline will they throw at you?”

If a Salt Lake City MORMON decides that WW was full of it, and starts PRACTICING what MORMON scripture commands in D&C 132; they will be EXCOMMUNICATED!

Right, Sandy!?

49 posted on 12/12/2011 4:39:13 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: rzman21
Why should the Mormon secrecy bother Evangelicals considering that so many Evangelicals are Freemasons?

Why should sin bother Evangelicals considering that so many Evangelicals have sin in their lives?

50 posted on 12/12/2011 4:40:49 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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