If Mormonism is 'anti-Christian,' then how can it be considered 'Christian?'

Colofornian | Dec. 13, 2011 | Colofornian [Vanity]

[reaganaut]

First of all, that isn’t mormon ‘fringe’ it is MAINSTREAM MORMON DOCTRINE. These people acted on the orders of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other LDS prophets who were gods on earth to them. Not ‘fringe’ at all.

Secondly, they cannot place those actions solely in the past because they still teach the doctrines.

Thirdly, their own founding prophet, the one they sing praises to (and basically worship) stated that he was to be a ‘second mohammed’ and that ‘it shall be Mormonism or the sword’. I can give you references for all this if you wish.

Mormonism is A LOT A LOT closer to Islam (and in bed with Islam) than most Americans realize.

[reaganaut]

Give it up, he is too dense to realize the threat.

[Godzilla]

No where; at no time; has Mormonism threatened our Constitution; much less the people/culture of those who live by it!

for much of its existence, mormon temple ceremonies included a blood oath of vengeance against the US Gov't. It was removed in 1920. If that doesn't constitute a threat, then you better clarify what you mean.

[cricket]

How do you feel about the Masons? They still do their 'rituals'. . .but has it impacted your quality of life? Have they ever? How about that 'Mason neighbor'. Afraid to go to sleep at night? Please; put these these things in some kind of 'context'. . .and again; prioritize the threats posed.

We have real and critical threats to America. Just not buying; that the Mormon Church should be at top of my list. SORRY! Not buying it.

(Again; do not support Mitt; but do not 'fear' him as a 'Mormon' either. We are in far greater danger with our Muslim/Maoist/Leftist Presidential Leadership. A 'leadership' so imaginged; of course. Save for the consequences, that is.)

[cricket]

How do you feel about the Masons? They still do their 'rituals'. . .but has it impacted your quality of life? Have they ever? How about that 'Mason neighbor'. Afraid to go to sleep at night? Please; put these these things in some kind of 'context'. . .and again; prioritize the threats posed.

We have real and critical threats to America. Just not buying; that the Mormon Church should be at top of my list. SORRY! Not buying it.

(Again; do not support Mitt; but do not 'fear' him as a 'Mormon' either. We are in far greater danger with our Muslim/Maoist/Leftist Presidential Leadership. A 'leadership' so imaginged; of course. Save for the consequences, that is.)

[Godzilla]

How do you feel about the Masons?

Do / did they make a blood oath to enact revenge against the country. . . . (crickets from cricket)

We have real and critical threats to America. Just not buying; that the Mormon Church should be at top of my list. SORRY! Not buying it.

Then go down to your local recruiter's office and join the military. Blathering on the internet won't solve that.

(Again; do not support Mitt; but do not 'fear' him as a 'Mormon' either. We are in far greater danger with our Muslim/Maoist/Leftist Presidential Leadership. A 'leadership' so imaginged; of course. Save for the consequences, that is.)

My, religion forms romney's fundamental world view. I don't fear him. But since you dropped in to the RELIGION Forum, discussing mormonism (or any other religious topic) IS the norm. Have a nice day.

[cricket]

Like Catholocism; and Christianity, for that matter. Much is written in Biblical 'stone'; and much is synthesized, and reconstituted by 'choice'/conscience. Not saying that is 'the right way'; nor diminishing moral standards; just stating what is today; a factoid of sorts.

Do I think Mitt is going to brandish a sword on behalf of his 'Mormonism'. . .Nope.

As for it being closer to Islam; will have to get a 'whole lot closer' by it's actual 'fruits'; for me to worry.

Meantime; the Leftist/Socialists/communists of the world have even 'more' in common with Islam. One has only to check the very 'real' associations and influences that gave Nazism it's focus and MO. Just google; for example; 'Hitler and the Imams' WW2 etc.

(By this turn of Nazi influence; we still do not run; or hide, of course; in presence of 'Liberals' - though probably; we should. . .)

[Elsie]

A very impressive Three Minutes' Hate !

No, Ma'am; we do this for a lot long than 3 minutes a day. More like 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M. 6 days a week.

[Elsie]

Have only appreciation for Mormons; no fear; like that expressed on varioius threads here.

Fear; eh?

And on various threads, too!

Could you LINK to some of this FEAR?

---

 

Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

 

Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

 

 

 

 

 

Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 

Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

 

1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

 

Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

 

 

1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.

 

 

1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

 

2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

 

 

 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

 

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

 

 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

 

 

Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

 

 

Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

 

 

Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

 

 

 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

 

 

 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

 

 

2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

[Elsie]

...the 'false' that needs no 'resisting'...

Are you a CHRISTIAN?

[Elsie]

Mormonism is A LOT A LOT closer to Islam (and in bed with Islam) than most Americans realize.

 

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

• Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

• Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

• Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

• As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

• Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

• Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

• Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

• Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

---

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

[cricket]

But since you dropped in to the RELIGION Forum

Oh, now I get it! Actually; just fell into this; unaware per 'forum' as I was checking general 'Forum and 'latest posts' only - and NOT Religious Forum, in particular. NOT that it should matter.

As for the Mason's 'blood oaths'; guess it depends on what 'country' they may find themselves in; if even metaphorically. . but better watch out for that 'Mason' neighbor, nonetheless.

I digress; however. And there ARE related reasons; that I do not want Mitt as 'choice'; but not because he is "Mormon" rather it is his suffering what is now; an all to typical Republican malaise. Like many Repubs; and many NOT Mormon, of course; Mitt does not recognize or is reluctant, to identify the Muslim enemies within our Government/Country. Of course, neither did/does Christian Repub Rick Perry or Mayor Bloomberg (Jewish Faith), and other Repubs; for that matter; per RNC and 'Conservative' pact Repub influence.

IMHO; we have much to fear from this 'blindness' - if only blindness of convenience; or severe PC myopia.

No question, IMHO; that we have more to fear, from the 'likes of' Grover Norquist; Conservative Activist - and not a Mormon; and from his like-minded Repub/Conservative compatriots - than we do, from any 'just only Mormon'.

Unfortunately; Mitt is not 'just' a Mormon. He is an all to 'status-quo, succored' Republican.

Will leave the rest of the 'religious debate' to those inclined; but if I feel compelled. . .will 'go there' - or 'here' as the case may be. . .

[cricket]

As a Christian; do you find yourself so tempted by the clearly false; and so must resist? Or. . .do you recognize the false; and so simply ignore it . . .(and so not give it ‘power’). . . Genuine Faith brings ‘freedom’; not the constraints - and ties - of resistance. Not that every person of Faith is necessarily, entirely ‘free’. . .but speaks to a ‘finer point’; in any event.

[reaganaut]

Do your research. Mitt will push Mormonism and defer to his prophet. Guaranteed.

Second, it isn’t like Catholicism or Christianity in general. Not at all. And it isn’t fringe Mormonism at all.

Third, you keep spouting about a subject you have no clue on and have been proven wrong. It would behoove you to read “American Massacre”, “Blood of the Prophets”, “Under the Banner of Heaven”, “When Salt Lake City Calls” at a minimum. After you have done your homework, then tell me Mormonism isn’t a threat.

FWIW, Mormons sided in with the Nazi’s during WWII.

But go ahead, worry about yourself and your physical welfare. Go ahead and be short sighted. Leave us Christians to worry about the souls of others. Hell is worse than a RINO.

And I don’t have issues with Masons, my ancestors for the last 8 generations have been Masons.

[reaganaut]

Oh, and it is ok that you can’t multi-task. We can.

[cricket]

Glad to hear that you can multi-task. And so; what is your problem?

[cricket]

And I don’t have issues with Masons, my ancestors for the last 8 generations have been Masons.

Nor do I; but reading some of those texts/rituals/blood oaths; surely can be as scary as reading a book on Mormons; doncha think?

Per your fear; just 'HOW' might Mitt 'push' Mormonism? (Like he did when Governor of Massachussetts?) Like his Father did; when he was Governor of Michigan? Oh, never mind. Again; am far more worried about the Islamic flag; materializing atop our White House; per their promise.

You - and others here - can worry about the 'Mormon threat'; (and the next generation of the Osmond family) and I will concentrate on the 'barbarians at our gates; and those inside as well.

[cricket]

OKay. . .if not ‘fear’; then ‘what’. Hate? Oh, that works. If neither fear nor hate; then ‘what’? Never mind; a ‘rhetorical’ - almost - question; so really; no answer needed. Particularly if you cannot answer w/o long - and longer - rows of Scripture to speak for you; as I already, get ‘fully’ and totally. . .your point.

[Elsie]

As a Christian; do you find yourself so tempted by the clearly false; and so must resist? Or. . .do you recognize the false; and so simply ignore it.

Nothing in my reply #49 addresses your question(s) here?

[Elsie]

Are you a CHRISTIAN?

Unanswered, but your reply tends to give clues.