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The mystery of 666 Explained - Nero! {Ecumenical thread}
ecclesia.org ^ | 2009 | Richard Anthony

Posted on 12/22/2011 1:01:18 PM PST by Cronos

Apocalypse 13:16-18 is based on Ezekiel 8 and 9. The "mark" symbolized the spiritual condition of the inhabitants of Jerusalem. The ones with the "mark" were in allegiance with God. However, in Apocalypse, the mark is reversed. That is to say, the mark was on those who were against God and had allegiance to the "beast."

John wrote that the number "is the number of a man's name; and his number is 666." This tells us that those who received the "mark" were actually in allegiance with a "man," an actually person of the first century. So, who was he? Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus! Better known as Nero Caesar.

John used a puzzle called gematria in which numbers are used to represent certain letters. John used this puzzle to reveal Nero without actually writing down his name. Remember, the early churches were being persecuted during this time—not only from the Jews, but also from the Romans. The numerical values of the Hebrew letters in Neron Kesar (Nero Caesar) are:

Nero's Name

Nero Caesar fits the gematria code number "666." Using this code, his name would be rendered as "NRWN QSR." (NRWN QSR). The number values are:

N = 50
R = 200
W = 6
N = 50
Q = 100
S = 60
R = 200

which, when added together, equals 666. The fact that Nero fits the description of the "beast" is well documented. According to Suetonius, he murdered his parents, wife, brother, aunt, and many others close to him and of high station in Rome. He was a torturer, a homosexual rapist, and a sodomite. He even married two young boys and paraded them around as his wives. One of the boys, whose name was Sporus, was castrated by Nero. He was truly bestial in his character, depravity, and actions. He devised a kind of game: covered with the skin of some wild animal, he was let loose from a cage and attacked the private parts of men and women, who were bound at stakes. He also initiated the war against the Jews which led to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD..

Nero’s persecution, which was initiated in A.D.64, was the first ever Roman assault on Christianity. Roman historian Tacitus (A.D. 56-117) spoke of Nero's "cruel nature" that "put to death so many innocent men." He records the scene in Rome when the persecution of Christians broke out: "And their death was aggravated with mockeries, insomuch that, wrapped in the hides of wild beasts, they were torn to pieces by dogs, or fastened to crosses to be set on fire, that when the darkness fell they might be burned to illuminate the night." Christians were crucified, beheaded, burnt alive, and used as torches to light the palace gardens. Historically, Nero is the one that persecuted Christians beyond all comparison. St. John’s banishment to Patmos (where he wrote the book of Apocalypse) was itself a result of the great persecution of Nero. The apostle Paul was tortured and then beheaded by the evil Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67. The apostle Peter, who was crucified upside down, was another victim of Nero, .

As Church father Eusebius notes: "Nero was the first of the emperors who showed himself an enemy of the divine religion." Sulpicius Severus concurs: "He first attempted to abolish the name of Christian." In his Annals, Roman historian Tacitus points to those who were persecuted as "those who . . . were vulgarly called Christians." Roman historian Suetonius concurs, for in a list of the few "positive" contributions of Nero as emperor, he includes the fact that Nero persecuted Christians: "During his reign many abuses were severely punished and put down, and no fewer new laws were made:. . . . Punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition."

Noted church historian J. L. von Mosheim wrote of Nero's persecution: "Foremost in the rank of those emperors, on whom the church looks back with horror as her persecutors, stands Nero, a prince whose conduct towards the Christians admits of no palliation, but was to the last degree unprincipled and inhuman. The dreadful persecution which took place by order of this tyrant, commenced at Rome about the middle of November, in the year of our Lord 64. . . . This dreadful persecution ceased but with the death of Nero. The empire, it is well known, was not delivered from the tyranny of this monster until the year 68, when he put an end to his own life." (L. von Mosheim, Historical Commentaries, I:138,139).

His bestial cruelty is evidenced in the writings of the Roman historian Suetonius (A.D. 70-160), who speaks of Nero's "cruelty of disposition" evidencing itself at an early age. He documents Nero's evil and states: "neither discrimination or moderation [were employed] in putting to death whosoever he pleased on any pretext whatever." Suetonius notes that Nero "compelled four hundred senators and six hundred Roman knights, some of whom were well to do and of unblemished reputation, to fight in the arena."

Roman naturalist Pliny the Elder (A.D. 23-79) described Nero as "the destroyer of the human race" and "the poison of the world." Roman satirist Juvenal (A.D. 60-140) speaks of "Nero's cruel and bloody tyranny." Elsewhere, he calls Nero a "cruel tyrant."

Nero so affected the imagination that the pagan writer Apollinius of Tyana, a contemporary of Nero, specifically mentions that Nero was called a "beast": "In my travels, which have been wider than ever man yet accomplished, I have seen many, many wild beasts of Arabia and India; but this beast, that is commonly called a Tyrant, I know not how many heads it has, nor if it be crooked of claw, and armed with horrible fangs. . . . And of wild beasts you cannot say that they were ever known to eat their own mother, but Nero has gorged himself on this diet."


How Nero fulfills Prophesy

In Apocalypse 13:7, the Beast is said to "make war with the saints and to overcome them." Apocalypse 13:5 says that the beast would conduct such blasphemous warfare for a specific period of time: 42 months. The Neronic persecution was instituted in 64 AD and lasted until his death in June 68 AD, which is three and a half years, or 42 months! Nero fits the bill for the role of the beast!

Apocalypse 13:10 and 14 says the Beast not only slays by the sword, but ultimately is to die of a sword wound. Do you know how Nero died? According to Suetonius, he "drove a dagger into his throat, aided by Epaphroditus, his private secretary" (ch.49). Nero killed with the sword and was killed by the sword. That Nero did, in fact, kill by the sword is a well-attested fact. Paul, for example, is said to have died under Nero by decapitation by means of the sword. Tertullian credits "Nero's cruel sword" as providing the martyr's blood as seed for the church. He urges his Roman readers to "Consult your histories; you will there find that Nero was the first who assailed with the imperial sword the Christian sect."

Nero died in the middle of the war on June 8th, 68 AD, and Vespasian went back to Rome to fight to become the new emperor. During this time the Christians fled Jerusalem because they heeded the warning of Matthew 24:16; the Jews thought the respite was a sign from God of victory and they gathered in Jerusalem in great numbers. The Romans came back and destroyed the city.

Apocalypse 17:3 tells us that the beast is red. The red color may be indicative of the bloodshed caused by the beast. But Suetonius writes of the legend associated with Nero's ancestral parentage, which explains why he had a red beard, which was very unusual in those times.

Apocalypse 17:10 says, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." The five "kings" were not ruling at the same time, for the text stated "five are fallen," meaning that five of those kings had come and gone. Then "one is," meaning the "king" who was ruling at the time Apocalypse was written. Here, in this verse, we have one of the clearest proofs for Nero being the beast. If we simply examine the list of Roman Emperors, we will be able to determine who the sixth king was. Flavius Josephus clearly points out that Julius Caesar was the first emperor of Rome, followed by Augustus; Tiberius; Caius (Caligula); Claudius; and the sixth emperor was…Nero (Antiquities, books 18 and 19), who assumed imperial power upon the death of the fifth emperor, Claudius, in October, A.D. 54. The matter is confirmed just a little later in the writings of Roman historians: Suetonius (Lives of the Twelve Caesars and Dio Cassius, Roman History 5). Nero reigned from 54AD to June of 68AD. John informs us that the seventh king was "not yet come." That would be Galba, who assumed power upon Nero's death in June, A.D. 68. But he was only to continue a "short space." As a matter of historical fact, his reign lasted but six months until January 15, A.D. 69.

What about the Beast's death-wound and his subsequent resurrection? Let us now consider John's revelation of the Beast arising from the dead (Apocalypse 13:3-4). At this point we need to reflect upon a most significant series of historical events of the A.D. 60s. First, with the death of Nero, the Roman Empire's founding family vanished from rule. Following the death of Nero was the extinction of the Julian line. Immediately, the Roman Empire was hurled into civil wars of horrible ferocity and dramatic proportions. These civil wars would strike everyone as being the very death throes of Rome, the Beast generically considered. Before the world's startled eyes, the seven-headed Beast (Rome) was toppling to its death as its sixth head (Nero) was mortally wounded with the sword.

Tacitus's detailed account of the ruin wreaked upon Rome almost equals in psychological horror, cultural devastation, and human carnage that which befell Jerusalem during the Jewish War, as recorded by Josephus and Tactius. The Roman civil wars were the first fruits of Nero's death. Josephus records that the destruction was so horrible, that the general Vespasian, "was not able to apply himself further in other wars when his native country was laid waste." Josephus agrees that during this time Rome was brought near to utter "ruin." He notes that "about this time it was that heavy calamities came about Rome on all sides." According to 4 Ezra 12:16-19, written around A.D. 100, the Empire was "in danger of falling": "In the midst of the time of that kingdom great struggles shall arise, and it shall be in danger of falling; nevertheless it shall not fall then, but shall regain its former power."

But what eventually occurred at the end of these death throes? Suetonius informs us that: "The empire, which for a long time had been unsettled and, as it were, drifting through the usurpation and violent death of three emperors, was at last taken in hand given stability by the Flavian family." Josephus sets forth this view of things when he writes: "So upon this confirmation of Vespasian's entire government, which was now settled, and upon the unexpected deliverance of the public affairs of the Romans from ruin, Vespasian turned his thoughts to what remained unsubdued in Judea." Thus, after a time of grievous civil wars, the Empire was revived by the ascending of Vespasian to the purple.

The point is not that Nero’s name is the primary identification of 666. The point is, instead, what the number meant to the seven churches. St. John’s Biblically informed readers will have already recognized many clear indications of the Beast’s identity. Nero arrived on the scene as the first great persecutor of the Church, the embodiment of the "666-ness" of the Empire, and – Lo and behold! – his very name spells out 666! It is significant that "all the earliest Christian writers on the Apocalypse, from Irenaeus down to Victorious of Pettau and Commodian in the fourth, and Andreas in the fifth, and St. Beatus in the eighth century, connect Nero, or some Roman emperor, with the Apocalyptic Beast ." There should be no reasonable doubt about this identification. St. John was writing to first-century Christians, warning them of things that were "shortly" to take place. They were engaged in the most crucial battle of history, against the Dragon and the evil Empire which he possessed. The purpose of the Apocalypse was to comfort the Church with the assurance that God was in control, so that even the awesome might of the Dragon and the Beast would not stand before the armies of Jesus Christ. Christ was wounded in His heel on Friday, the sixth day, the Day of the Beast – yet that is the day He crushed the Dragon’s head. At his most powerful, St. John says, the Beast is just a six, or a series of sixes; never a seven.

It is charged by some that Neron Kesar is merely a convenient "misspelling" of Nero’s name in Hebrew. This objection overlooks the fact that before the modern introduction of dictionaries the world was simply not as concerned as we are about uniformity in the spelling of names. Alternate spellings were common (e.g. "Joram" and "Jehoram" in the Old Testament), especially in the transliteration of words into a foreign tongue. But the allegation of misspelling is wholly wrong anyway. The form Neron Kesar is the linguistically "correct" Hebrew form, is the form found in the Talmud and other rabbinical writings, and was used by Hebrews in the first century, as archaeological evidence has shown. As F. W. Farrar observed, "the Jewish Christian would have tried the name as he thought of the name-that is in Hebrew letters. And the moment he did this the secret stood revealed. No Jew ever thought of Nero except as ‘Neron Kesar,’ and this gives at once . . . 666" (The Early Days of Christianity, Chicago and New York: Belford, Clarke& Co., 1882, p. 540). Of some related interest is the fact that if Nero’s name is written without the final "n" (i.e., the way it would occur to a Gentile to spell it in Hebrew), it yields the number 616 — which is exactly the variant reading in a few New Testament manuscripts. The most reasonable explanation for this variant is that it arose from the confusion over the final "n".

It may now be pointed out that in an Aramaic document from Murabba’at, dated to the "second year of the emperor Nero," the name is spelled ‘rsq nwrn’ as required by the theory (i.e., that 666 signifies Nero). The last two consonants of ‘rsq’ are damaged, but enough is preserved to show that no vowel-letter was written between the ‘q’ and ‘s’ (Apocalypse 13:18 and a Scroll from Murabba’at). The evidence can be seen by consulting the French work edited by P, Benoit, J. T. Milik, and R. DeVaux, Discoveries in the Judean Desert of Jordan II (Oxford, 1961), page 18, plate 29.

The Christians of the first century were under the military authority of Rome, a nation which openly proclaimed its rulers, the Caesars, to be divine. All those under the jurisdiction of Rome were required by law to publicly proclaim their allegiance to Caesar by burning a pinch of incense and declaring, "Caesar is Lord". Upon compliance with this law, the people were given a papyrus document called a "libellus", which they were required to present when either stopped by the Roman police or attempting to engage in commerce in the Roman marketplace, increasing the difficulty of "buying or selling" without this mark. This is the

essence of Scripture’s warnings to the early Christians against taking upon themselves the "mark of the beast".


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: apocalypse; godsgravesglyphs; preterism
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To: Cronos

I’m sorry you do not understand the difference between salvation and blessing.


181 posted on 12/24/2011 12:58:40 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: Iscool

you may want to read Matthew 24, you may learn something.


182 posted on 12/24/2011 2:48:28 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Matthew 24 is about the 1st resurrection of the saints(Rev 20:4-6), not the 2nd one at the end of time when hasatan is thrown in the pit forever. There is a difference. A HUGE difference.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them and the lives of those who had been beheaded because of the witness they bore to Yeshua and because of the Word of Elohim, and who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not receive his mark upon their foreheads or upon their hands. And they lived and reigned with Messiah for a thousand years

Rev 20:5 (and the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended) this is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and set-apart is the one having part in the first resurrection. The second death possesses no authority over these, but they shall be priests of Elohim and of Messiah, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

183 posted on 12/24/2011 3:24:40 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Matthew 25 is about the 2nd resurrection of the Sunday churchers


184 posted on 12/24/2011 3:25:32 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
you may want to read Matthew 24, you may learn something.

Maybe I'll do that...What book is Matthew 24 in anyway...

185 posted on 12/24/2011 5:09:39 PM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: PetroniusMaximus

mega dittos!


186 posted on 12/24/2011 7:14:58 PM PST by LiteKeeper ("Who is John Galt?")
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To: patlin
oh, I do, but YOU said I can not seem to find the verses in Scripture wherein Paul say not to keep Torah. Where Paul out right rejected circumcision.

I'm sorry you have not read Galations 5:2-4
2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

And 1 Cor 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised --> so Paul is saying not to follow the Torah's teaching on circumcision, hence your statement is incorrect.

187 posted on 12/25/2011 5:01:18 AM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: ChocChipCookie

Good question — because the regular name by which a Roman was called was by his praenomen (family name) and the “tribe name” hence Nero Caesar.


188 posted on 12/25/2011 5:15:18 AM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: Iscool

Maybe I’ll do that...What book is Matthew 24 in anyway...

this comment explains all the ignorance of Christianity shown this past year.


189 posted on 12/25/2011 8:29:17 AM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Cronos
so Paul is saying not to follow the Torah's teaching on circumcision, hence your statement is incorrect

Acts 15:20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah.

1st of all, one can not get the contet of what a letter is about by starting in middle or the closing of a letter. So what does Paul say at the opening of these 2 letters you cite.

1Cor 1:4 I thank my Elohim always concerning you for the favour of Elohim which was given to you by Messiah 9 Elohim is trustworthy, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Yeshua Messiah 10 And I appeal to you, brothers, by the Name of Yeshua Messiah, that you all agree, and that there be no divisions among you 13 Has the Messiah been divided? 14 I thank Elohim that I immersed not one of you except Crispus and Gaios, 15 that no one should say that I immersed into my own name 18 For the word of the stake is indeed foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of Elohim

Division amongst the ranks because of the house of Shammai that was going around and telling the new believers in Messiah that they had to be circumcised in the flesh before they could enter back into covenant and be saved from ther penalty of sin which is death.

1Co 3:1 And I, brothers, was not able to speak to you as to spiritual ones but as to fleshly, as to babes in Messiah. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food, for until now you were not able to receive it 9 For we are fellow workers of Elohim, you are the field of Elohim, the building of Elohim 16 Do you not know that you are a Dwelling Place of Elohim and that the Spirit of Elohim dwells in you 23 And you belong to Messiah, and Messiah belongs to Elohim 1Co 4:1 Let a man regard us as servants of Messiah and trustees of the secrets of Elohim

2Cor 3:4 And such trust we have toward Elohim, through the Messiah ... 13 and not like Mosheh, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel should not look steadily at the end of what was passing away ... But their minds were hardened, for to this day, when the old covenant is being read, that same veil remains, not lifted, because in Messiah it is taken away. But to this day, when Mosheh is being read, a veil lies on their heart. And when one turns to the Master, the veil is taken away.

Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or Elohim? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I should not be a servant of Messiah. 11 And I make known to you, brothers, that the Good News announced by me is not according to man 15 But when it pleased Elohim, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me by His favour, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might bring Him, the Good News, to the gentiles Gal 2:4 But as for the false brothers, sneakingly brought in, who sneaked in to spy out our freedom which we have in Messiah Yeshua in order to enslave us Gal 3:11 And that no one is declared right by Torah before Elohim is clear, for “The righteous shall live by belief.” 12 And the Torah is not of belief, but “The man who does them shall live by them.” 13 Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the Torah, having become a curse for us 14 in order that the blessing of Aḇraham might come upon the nations in Messiah Yeshua

And what is the curse? It is the penalty of death due for sin. For if Torah taught by Messiah Yeshua is gone, then what defines sin?

Gal 3:16 But the promises were spoken to Aḇraham, and to his Seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Messiah. 17 Now this I say, Torah, that came four hundred and thirty years later, does not annul a covenant previously confirmed by Elohim in Messiah, so as to do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is by Torah, it is no longer by promise, but Elohim gave it to Aḇraham through a promise. 19 Why, then, the Torah? It was added because of transgressions, until the Seed should come to whom the promise was made. And it was ordained through messengers in the hand of a mediator. 20 The Mediator, however, is not of one, but Elohim is one. 21 Is the Torah then against the promises of Elohim? Let it not be! For if a law had been given that was able to make alive, truly righteousness would have been by Torah Gal 4:9 But now after you have known Elohim, or rather are known by Elohim, how do you turn again to the weak and poor elementary matters, to which you wish to be enslaved again?

Circumcision of the heart is of no value if Torah is gone because that would mean the promise of Abraham of also null and void. Vainly the Judaizers preached works of the flesh, but YHVH has always sought works of the heart. The law is still the same, it is the instrument in which it is followed that makes it either a blessing or a curse. Also according to these Words of Paul, it is not Messiah who resides in our hearts, it is Elohim and thus it is Elohim's Torah which He has written on our hearts. Not some new covenant that Christendom teaches Yeshua Messiah brought.

When Messiah Yeshua spoke that he came to 'fulfill' it is the same word he used in Mt 3:15 when he said, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Thus when religious doctrine claims that Torah is done away with, in the statement, that doctrine is also claiming that righteousness is done away with. Which as one can clearly see in Galatians, Paul once again rejected any notion that Torah was done away with.

So it is your statement that is incorrect.

190 posted on 12/25/2011 9:14:48 AM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: Cronos
Mt 22:Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[Dt 6:5] 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[Lev 19:18] 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

The 2 greatest commandents quoted from Torah by Messiah Yeshua. They were not new as the doctrine of Christendom professes and teaches.

191 posted on 12/25/2011 9:42:21 AM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: ravenwolf

John was writing from the view of God, not of man. (Prophetically).

One day (with the Lord) is as a thousand years. Shortly could be 2, or 3 thousand years.

Looking at the scriptural references as a whole, the prophecy that Israel must be regathered only occurred recently (in our generation).

No man shall know the time, but we WILL (if we are listening to God), know the “season”.

THe 1,000 year reign WILL be a reign of Christ’s rule on earth. So nations will not be ruled by despots, tryrants, dictators, or religious posers such as we have now.


192 posted on 12/25/2011 5:11:18 PM PST by BereanBrain
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To: patlin
don't divert -- let's repeat your statement about Paul again -- I can not seem to find the verses in Scripture wherein Paul say not to keep Torah. Where Paul out right rejected circumcision. -- evidently whoever this "we" is, doesn't read Galatians 5:2-3
2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

And evidently this "we" doesn't read Corinthians either where Paul says Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. 1 Cor 7:18

So pretty evidently your statement about Paul (above) is incorrect, as is your other statement ON THE CONTRAIRE, WE DO READ FROM THE 1ST CENTURY WRITINGS -- unless Galatians and 1 Corinthians are not in what this "we" read.

193 posted on 12/25/2011 10:13:26 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: patlin
Do not read in snippets -- Romans 3 says 20: Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before him. For by the law is the knowledge of sin. as well as
21. But now without the law the justice of God is made manifest, being witnessed by the law and the prophets -- Paul talks of ripping the Torah's laws such as circumcision, so hence your statement above about Paul teaching the Torah is wrong.
194 posted on 12/25/2011 10:17:23 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: aruanan; PetroniusMaximus; GiovannaNicoletta; one Lord one faith one baptism; Gamecock
Aruanan: Sorry, Petronius, you're conflating different things because you've already assumed them to be descriptions of the same event. That's you, not Paul, doing that. The letters to the Thessalonians were written at least 16 years before the earliest possible date of composition for Revelation (67 or 68AD) and Paul didn't refer to "the man of sin, the son of perdition" as "the beast." Furthermore, it doesn't at all follow that what Paul said cannot be true at the same time that "the beast" in Revelation (the first beast) was referring to the historical Nero

well said, our friends are mixing Thessalonians with Revelation's commentary on Nero with Daniel's commentary on Antiochus IV

Revelation was for the situation AT HAND -- Nero's persecution of Christians. it is over and Nero is dead despite the 3 imposters who came 10, 15 and 20+ years after 68 AD

195 posted on 12/25/2011 10:37:20 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: Cronos
Talk about reading in snippets, it is not I that does, it is the doctrine of Christendom that is founded in snippets disregarding the words of Messiah and his apostles.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness

1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

1Co 10:1 For I do not wish you to be ignorant, brothers, that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 1Co 10:2 and all were immersed into Mosheh in the cloud and in the sea, 1Co 10:3 and all ate the same spiritual food, 1Co 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed, and the Rock was Messiah

Gal 3:13 Messiah redeemed us from the curse(penalty of death) of the Torah, having become a curse for us 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the nations in Messiah Yeshua

Dt 11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; 27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: 28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day

Circumcision...it is not about salvation, it is about blessing that comes from obedience for according to Paul, obedience IS righteousness and we are all to run the race of righteousness for if the works are of the heart, the works are not of us but of the Spirit that resides in our hearts. The same Spirit that circumcised our hearts in order that the sin of the flesh no longer dulls HIS Light of righteouness that HE planted in us when we accepted HIM into our heart. Therefore, the works that come of the heart is God's Light to the world because those works are HIS, not ours. We are HIS servants, created for the sole puprose to serve HIM as HE instructs.

196 posted on 12/25/2011 11:24:18 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: Cronos
well said, our friends are mixing Thessalonians with Revelation's commentary on Nero with Daniel's commentary on Antiochus IV

Yes, but read the rest, the "on the other hand." Neither view fits the actual language in Revelation.
197 posted on 12/26/2011 5:37:43 AM PST by aruanan
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To: BereanBrain

John was writing from the view of God, not of man. (Prophetically).

One day (with the Lord) is as a thousand years. Shortly could be 2, or 3 thousand years.

Looking at the scriptural references as a whole, the prophecy that Israel must be regathered only occurred recently (in our generation).

No man shall know the time, but we WILL (if we are listening to God), know the “season”.

THe 1,000 year reign WILL be a reign of Christ’s rule on earth. So nations will not be ruled by despots, tryrants, dictators, or religious posers such as we have now.


Looking at the scriptural references as a whole, the prophecy that Israel must be regathered only occurred recently (in our generation).

Ain,t the gathering of Isreal supposed to be in the last days, in the latter years? since that started in 1948 don,t that mean we are living in the last days now?

Personally i believe not only the time has a different Prophetic meaning, but also the meaning of the prediction itself.

I can not help but to believe that the thousand year reign of Christ has been fulfilled, and that Satan has been released for a spell.

But i admit i am not looking at technicalities, but just the broader view of it.

Jesus said that his Gospel would be preached to all of the world and then the end would come, we know there were Priests spreading the gospel to most of the world for over a thousand years before 1948.

But only after 1948 has it been possible by radio and tv to spread the gospel to all of the world literally.and that has happened.


198 posted on 12/26/2011 6:27:39 AM PST by ravenwolf (reIf you believe that Nero was the anti-Christ, and among othJust a bit of the long list of proofsre)
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To: Cronos

It’s obvious that there are as many different convictions in the inerrancy of a particular Biblical interpretation, as there are interpreters. Anyone who ventures a post like this is asking for a verbal haymaker.

That is why I do so appreciate your bravery in commenting.


199 posted on 12/26/2011 1:27:02 PM PST by worst-case scenario (Striving to reach the light)
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To: ravenwolf

If Satan has been released for a spell, which period of 1,000 years was he bound (please show me 1,000 years without war on earth)


200 posted on 12/26/2011 4:02:29 PM PST by BereanBrain
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