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The mystery of 666 Explained - Nero! {Ecumenical thread}
ecclesia.org ^ | 2009 | Richard Anthony

Posted on 12/22/2011 1:01:18 PM PST by Cronos

Apocalypse 13:16-18 is based on Ezekiel 8 and 9. The "mark" symbolized the spiritual condition of the inhabitants of Jerusalem. The ones with the "mark" were in allegiance with God. However, in Apocalypse, the mark is reversed. That is to say, the mark was on those who were against God and had allegiance to the "beast."

John wrote that the number "is the number of a man's name; and his number is 666." This tells us that those who received the "mark" were actually in allegiance with a "man," an actually person of the first century. So, who was he? Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus! Better known as Nero Caesar.

John used a puzzle called gematria in which numbers are used to represent certain letters. John used this puzzle to reveal Nero without actually writing down his name. Remember, the early churches were being persecuted during this time—not only from the Jews, but also from the Romans. The numerical values of the Hebrew letters in Neron Kesar (Nero Caesar) are:

Nero's Name

Nero Caesar fits the gematria code number "666." Using this code, his name would be rendered as "NRWN QSR." (NRWN QSR). The number values are:

N = 50
R = 200
W = 6
N = 50
Q = 100
S = 60
R = 200

which, when added together, equals 666. The fact that Nero fits the description of the "beast" is well documented. According to Suetonius, he murdered his parents, wife, brother, aunt, and many others close to him and of high station in Rome. He was a torturer, a homosexual rapist, and a sodomite. He even married two young boys and paraded them around as his wives. One of the boys, whose name was Sporus, was castrated by Nero. He was truly bestial in his character, depravity, and actions. He devised a kind of game: covered with the skin of some wild animal, he was let loose from a cage and attacked the private parts of men and women, who were bound at stakes. He also initiated the war against the Jews which led to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD..

Nero’s persecution, which was initiated in A.D.64, was the first ever Roman assault on Christianity. Roman historian Tacitus (A.D. 56-117) spoke of Nero's "cruel nature" that "put to death so many innocent men." He records the scene in Rome when the persecution of Christians broke out: "And their death was aggravated with mockeries, insomuch that, wrapped in the hides of wild beasts, they were torn to pieces by dogs, or fastened to crosses to be set on fire, that when the darkness fell they might be burned to illuminate the night." Christians were crucified, beheaded, burnt alive, and used as torches to light the palace gardens. Historically, Nero is the one that persecuted Christians beyond all comparison. St. John’s banishment to Patmos (where he wrote the book of Apocalypse) was itself a result of the great persecution of Nero. The apostle Paul was tortured and then beheaded by the evil Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67. The apostle Peter, who was crucified upside down, was another victim of Nero, .

As Church father Eusebius notes: "Nero was the first of the emperors who showed himself an enemy of the divine religion." Sulpicius Severus concurs: "He first attempted to abolish the name of Christian." In his Annals, Roman historian Tacitus points to those who were persecuted as "those who . . . were vulgarly called Christians." Roman historian Suetonius concurs, for in a list of the few "positive" contributions of Nero as emperor, he includes the fact that Nero persecuted Christians: "During his reign many abuses were severely punished and put down, and no fewer new laws were made:. . . . Punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition."

Noted church historian J. L. von Mosheim wrote of Nero's persecution: "Foremost in the rank of those emperors, on whom the church looks back with horror as her persecutors, stands Nero, a prince whose conduct towards the Christians admits of no palliation, but was to the last degree unprincipled and inhuman. The dreadful persecution which took place by order of this tyrant, commenced at Rome about the middle of November, in the year of our Lord 64. . . . This dreadful persecution ceased but with the death of Nero. The empire, it is well known, was not delivered from the tyranny of this monster until the year 68, when he put an end to his own life." (L. von Mosheim, Historical Commentaries, I:138,139).

His bestial cruelty is evidenced in the writings of the Roman historian Suetonius (A.D. 70-160), who speaks of Nero's "cruelty of disposition" evidencing itself at an early age. He documents Nero's evil and states: "neither discrimination or moderation [were employed] in putting to death whosoever he pleased on any pretext whatever." Suetonius notes that Nero "compelled four hundred senators and six hundred Roman knights, some of whom were well to do and of unblemished reputation, to fight in the arena."

Roman naturalist Pliny the Elder (A.D. 23-79) described Nero as "the destroyer of the human race" and "the poison of the world." Roman satirist Juvenal (A.D. 60-140) speaks of "Nero's cruel and bloody tyranny." Elsewhere, he calls Nero a "cruel tyrant."

Nero so affected the imagination that the pagan writer Apollinius of Tyana, a contemporary of Nero, specifically mentions that Nero was called a "beast": "In my travels, which have been wider than ever man yet accomplished, I have seen many, many wild beasts of Arabia and India; but this beast, that is commonly called a Tyrant, I know not how many heads it has, nor if it be crooked of claw, and armed with horrible fangs. . . . And of wild beasts you cannot say that they were ever known to eat their own mother, but Nero has gorged himself on this diet."


How Nero fulfills Prophesy

In Apocalypse 13:7, the Beast is said to "make war with the saints and to overcome them." Apocalypse 13:5 says that the beast would conduct such blasphemous warfare for a specific period of time: 42 months. The Neronic persecution was instituted in 64 AD and lasted until his death in June 68 AD, which is three and a half years, or 42 months! Nero fits the bill for the role of the beast!

Apocalypse 13:10 and 14 says the Beast not only slays by the sword, but ultimately is to die of a sword wound. Do you know how Nero died? According to Suetonius, he "drove a dagger into his throat, aided by Epaphroditus, his private secretary" (ch.49). Nero killed with the sword and was killed by the sword. That Nero did, in fact, kill by the sword is a well-attested fact. Paul, for example, is said to have died under Nero by decapitation by means of the sword. Tertullian credits "Nero's cruel sword" as providing the martyr's blood as seed for the church. He urges his Roman readers to "Consult your histories; you will there find that Nero was the first who assailed with the imperial sword the Christian sect."

Nero died in the middle of the war on June 8th, 68 AD, and Vespasian went back to Rome to fight to become the new emperor. During this time the Christians fled Jerusalem because they heeded the warning of Matthew 24:16; the Jews thought the respite was a sign from God of victory and they gathered in Jerusalem in great numbers. The Romans came back and destroyed the city.

Apocalypse 17:3 tells us that the beast is red. The red color may be indicative of the bloodshed caused by the beast. But Suetonius writes of the legend associated with Nero's ancestral parentage, which explains why he had a red beard, which was very unusual in those times.

Apocalypse 17:10 says, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." The five "kings" were not ruling at the same time, for the text stated "five are fallen," meaning that five of those kings had come and gone. Then "one is," meaning the "king" who was ruling at the time Apocalypse was written. Here, in this verse, we have one of the clearest proofs for Nero being the beast. If we simply examine the list of Roman Emperors, we will be able to determine who the sixth king was. Flavius Josephus clearly points out that Julius Caesar was the first emperor of Rome, followed by Augustus; Tiberius; Caius (Caligula); Claudius; and the sixth emperor was…Nero (Antiquities, books 18 and 19), who assumed imperial power upon the death of the fifth emperor, Claudius, in October, A.D. 54. The matter is confirmed just a little later in the writings of Roman historians: Suetonius (Lives of the Twelve Caesars and Dio Cassius, Roman History 5). Nero reigned from 54AD to June of 68AD. John informs us that the seventh king was "not yet come." That would be Galba, who assumed power upon Nero's death in June, A.D. 68. But he was only to continue a "short space." As a matter of historical fact, his reign lasted but six months until January 15, A.D. 69.

What about the Beast's death-wound and his subsequent resurrection? Let us now consider John's revelation of the Beast arising from the dead (Apocalypse 13:3-4). At this point we need to reflect upon a most significant series of historical events of the A.D. 60s. First, with the death of Nero, the Roman Empire's founding family vanished from rule. Following the death of Nero was the extinction of the Julian line. Immediately, the Roman Empire was hurled into civil wars of horrible ferocity and dramatic proportions. These civil wars would strike everyone as being the very death throes of Rome, the Beast generically considered. Before the world's startled eyes, the seven-headed Beast (Rome) was toppling to its death as its sixth head (Nero) was mortally wounded with the sword.

Tacitus's detailed account of the ruin wreaked upon Rome almost equals in psychological horror, cultural devastation, and human carnage that which befell Jerusalem during the Jewish War, as recorded by Josephus and Tactius. The Roman civil wars were the first fruits of Nero's death. Josephus records that the destruction was so horrible, that the general Vespasian, "was not able to apply himself further in other wars when his native country was laid waste." Josephus agrees that during this time Rome was brought near to utter "ruin." He notes that "about this time it was that heavy calamities came about Rome on all sides." According to 4 Ezra 12:16-19, written around A.D. 100, the Empire was "in danger of falling": "In the midst of the time of that kingdom great struggles shall arise, and it shall be in danger of falling; nevertheless it shall not fall then, but shall regain its former power."

But what eventually occurred at the end of these death throes? Suetonius informs us that: "The empire, which for a long time had been unsettled and, as it were, drifting through the usurpation and violent death of three emperors, was at last taken in hand given stability by the Flavian family." Josephus sets forth this view of things when he writes: "So upon this confirmation of Vespasian's entire government, which was now settled, and upon the unexpected deliverance of the public affairs of the Romans from ruin, Vespasian turned his thoughts to what remained unsubdued in Judea." Thus, after a time of grievous civil wars, the Empire was revived by the ascending of Vespasian to the purple.

The point is not that Nero’s name is the primary identification of 666. The point is, instead, what the number meant to the seven churches. St. John’s Biblically informed readers will have already recognized many clear indications of the Beast’s identity. Nero arrived on the scene as the first great persecutor of the Church, the embodiment of the "666-ness" of the Empire, and – Lo and behold! – his very name spells out 666! It is significant that "all the earliest Christian writers on the Apocalypse, from Irenaeus down to Victorious of Pettau and Commodian in the fourth, and Andreas in the fifth, and St. Beatus in the eighth century, connect Nero, or some Roman emperor, with the Apocalyptic Beast ." There should be no reasonable doubt about this identification. St. John was writing to first-century Christians, warning them of things that were "shortly" to take place. They were engaged in the most crucial battle of history, against the Dragon and the evil Empire which he possessed. The purpose of the Apocalypse was to comfort the Church with the assurance that God was in control, so that even the awesome might of the Dragon and the Beast would not stand before the armies of Jesus Christ. Christ was wounded in His heel on Friday, the sixth day, the Day of the Beast – yet that is the day He crushed the Dragon’s head. At his most powerful, St. John says, the Beast is just a six, or a series of sixes; never a seven.

It is charged by some that Neron Kesar is merely a convenient "misspelling" of Nero’s name in Hebrew. This objection overlooks the fact that before the modern introduction of dictionaries the world was simply not as concerned as we are about uniformity in the spelling of names. Alternate spellings were common (e.g. "Joram" and "Jehoram" in the Old Testament), especially in the transliteration of words into a foreign tongue. But the allegation of misspelling is wholly wrong anyway. The form Neron Kesar is the linguistically "correct" Hebrew form, is the form found in the Talmud and other rabbinical writings, and was used by Hebrews in the first century, as archaeological evidence has shown. As F. W. Farrar observed, "the Jewish Christian would have tried the name as he thought of the name-that is in Hebrew letters. And the moment he did this the secret stood revealed. No Jew ever thought of Nero except as ‘Neron Kesar,’ and this gives at once . . . 666" (The Early Days of Christianity, Chicago and New York: Belford, Clarke& Co., 1882, p. 540). Of some related interest is the fact that if Nero’s name is written without the final "n" (i.e., the way it would occur to a Gentile to spell it in Hebrew), it yields the number 616 — which is exactly the variant reading in a few New Testament manuscripts. The most reasonable explanation for this variant is that it arose from the confusion over the final "n".

It may now be pointed out that in an Aramaic document from Murabba’at, dated to the "second year of the emperor Nero," the name is spelled ‘rsq nwrn’ as required by the theory (i.e., that 666 signifies Nero). The last two consonants of ‘rsq’ are damaged, but enough is preserved to show that no vowel-letter was written between the ‘q’ and ‘s’ (Apocalypse 13:18 and a Scroll from Murabba’at). The evidence can be seen by consulting the French work edited by P, Benoit, J. T. Milik, and R. DeVaux, Discoveries in the Judean Desert of Jordan II (Oxford, 1961), page 18, plate 29.

The Christians of the first century were under the military authority of Rome, a nation which openly proclaimed its rulers, the Caesars, to be divine. All those under the jurisdiction of Rome were required by law to publicly proclaim their allegiance to Caesar by burning a pinch of incense and declaring, "Caesar is Lord". Upon compliance with this law, the people were given a papyrus document called a "libellus", which they were required to present when either stopped by the Roman police or attempting to engage in commerce in the Roman marketplace, increasing the difficulty of "buying or selling" without this mark. This is the

essence of Scripture’s warnings to the early Christians against taking upon themselves the "mark of the beast".


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: apocalypse; godsgravesglyphs; preterism
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To: BereanBrain
>Last time I checked, the world is NOT getting better -- that check was wrong -- the Gospel is spreading in China and in Africa and in India -- Africa has 500 million Christians in 2010, compared to about 15 million odd in 1910. Christianity in China is exploding, Christians in Korea are in fact sending missionaries to the rest of the world, Christianity is spreading in India, causing caste tensions etc. etc. but the Gospel IS spreading and will continue to spread for much longer

so, yes, the world IS getting better

41 posted on 12/22/2011 10:36:44 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: BereanBrain
>Last time I checked, the world is NOT getting better -- that check was wrong -- don't look at things only from the US perspective -- 9/11 was a tragedy for us, but it was a continuation in Islam's war -- their ability to murder was already demonstrated in the Bombay bomb blasts of 1993, in their attacks in Afghanistan and the Philippines and East Timor and Nigeria. Even historically, 9/11 was more like a stab with a blunt pen-knife in the calf rather than a deep wound -- we have the scar, but this was not in the same league as islam's attack on the Byzantine Empire or worse the Parthian Empire. This was not in the same league as the Moors overtaking Hiszpania or the Ottomans reaching the very gates of Vienna.
42 posted on 12/22/2011 10:40:03 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: BereanBrain
Some folks like Edgar C. Whisenant, claimed he had cracked the biblical code and had unlocked the time table in his book 88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988 -- all those 88 reasons were wrong.
43 posted on 12/22/2011 10:41:18 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: BereanBrain
Note that Apocalypse 22:10 has the angel saying to John in 70- AD: And he saith to me: Seal not the words of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. -- at hand for the destruction by Titus Flavius Vespasianus
44 posted on 12/22/2011 10:49:19 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: circlecity

That depends on when one says it was written — either at the end of Domitian (94 AD) or in 68-69 AD when Nero was still around.


45 posted on 12/22/2011 10:52:48 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: circlecity

I don’t technically “buy” either of these — whichever way I believe that Christ reigns in heaven. There will be an end, but Christ told us not to focus on the when.


46 posted on 12/22/2011 10:54:06 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: rzman21

yes, it is not in the Divine Liturgy after all..


47 posted on 12/22/2011 11:01:17 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: Boogieman

in fact, even if it was written after 95 AD, it still talks about Nero’s fall and the time up to Titus Flavius Caesar Domitianus Augustus


48 posted on 12/22/2011 11:02:42 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: FateAmenableToChange

Not really, this was written to the 7 churches facing persecution under Nero and then Domitian.


49 posted on 12/22/2011 11:04:40 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: patlin
Paul rejected the Rabbinic oral law(Talmud) that said circumcision of the flesh was required for salvation, period.

ok, so do you mean that circumcision is not required as per the Torah?

because you also said Paul were Jewish who followed Messiah in the keeping and teaching of Torah

50 posted on 12/22/2011 11:05:50 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: jjotto

From what i’ve read of Jewish commentaries on the book of Apocalypse, the book is dismissed entirely. Is that a fair statement?


51 posted on 12/22/2011 11:07:06 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: Campion

“An angel told Daniel to “seal up the book” because they described things which would happen 500 years after he wrote. An angel tells John that he’s writing about events which “must soon happen,” and they’re 2000+ years in the future? Doesn’t make sense” —> good point.


52 posted on 12/22/2011 11:07:44 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: jjotto
even in the bizarro world of Judaizing Christians, some statements of purported facts stun even a character as jaded as me!

These harken back to the Ebionites of the early centuries!! But there are other strange religions out there in the middle east -- the Mandeans are intriguing: they reject Moses, Jesus AND Mohammed as false prophets and claim their prophets were Adam, Seth etc. etc. up until John the Baptist.

53 posted on 12/22/2011 11:09:59 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: zot; GreyFriar

Wait a minute — weren’t you guys also discussing this in 430 AD when Attila was at the gates? :) and then Alaric sacked the city later? and in 999? and when the Mongols threatened Europe? and on September 11, 1683 :)


54 posted on 12/22/2011 11:12:09 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: Cronos; BereanBrain; GiovannaNicoletta; Quix
"so, yes, the world IS getting better"

Yes and one day we can all say "peace and safety" and then...well nevermind.

The 'world' might be getting better but spiritually speaking (at least in regard to those who have the ability to visit vast and sudden destruction on others at the press of a button)it is in dire straights.

The world is getting better....nuke Mecca and Medina now huh?.The god of this world will soon have some folks saying "peace and safety" but we are not,or should not,be ignorant of him or his deceits.

55 posted on 12/22/2011 11:18:32 PM PST by mitch5501 (My guitar wants to kill your momma!)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; Ruy Dias de Bivar; Lee N. Field; jjotto; Campion
well, I don't know enough of (and don't care to waste time on) what dispensationalists may or may not believe. I think it is normal for human beings of a certain taint of mind to think of impending doom. there have been many periods throughout history when people have claimed that the end-times have come.

The end of Jerusalem in 69 AD is a very good example -- to Jews of that time, it WAS the end of the World. Judaiism was never the same after that -- it moved towards rabbinical Judaiism.

The Samaritans (or, as they call themselves, Israelites) who retained the Levitical priesthood and did not move to the rabbinical "way" give us an indication of the way it was.

But I digress -- for Jews and for that Jewish sect, Christianity, the destruction of Jerusalem WAS the end of the world, and this 7 headed beast that had conquered and destroyed it with "all the armies of the world" must have seemed insurmountable -- after all the Judeans had thrown everything at it and lost terribly (and the Romans knew how to destroy -- Cartageo delenda est). For the Christians who retained the very, very close ties to Judaism, Jewish law etc. it was the same tragedy as for the Jews, but probably worse and they disappeared. For those who had moved away and not tied themselves to Jerusalem, per se, the events of 69 AD were still the end of "the world", an era. They did not know what would happen next.

that is why, as campion pointed out, John was told not to close the book as the events are at hand.

56 posted on 12/22/2011 11:27:33 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: Vermont Lt
That is why Apocalypse was rejected by many Early Christians - the Syriac Christians, the one's closest to the action so to speak rejected it utterly as this book was used by the Montanists

As I pointed out in post 4, Augustine in the 4th century said The evangelist John has spoken of these two resurrections in the book which is called the Apocalypse, but in such a way that some Christians do not understand the first of the two, and so construe the passage into ridiculous fancies.

-- even Martin Luther considered it to be "neither apostolic nor prophetic" and stated that "Christ is neither taught nor known in it"

57 posted on 12/22/2011 11:29:15 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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To: Cronos; BereanBrain

time I checked, the world is NOT getting better — that check was wrong — people in India, China, South America, Asean, even Africa are living longer, healthier lives with more of the necessities of life
“The levels of poverty in each of those countries has dropped significantly comparing 2010 with 1980 — families where parents were illiterate laborers are now living as middle-class households with a roof over their heads, food, etc.

so, yes, the world IS getting better “

It’s just a sign of Daniel’s prophecy...”that in the latter days knowledge shall increase”. Science has allowed a bubble of better health and nutrition for larger segments of the world’s population. But science hasn’t increased Christ consciousness and morality. Rather we see “the great apostacy”! Hence...”the people shall travel to and fro” the sense of that verse suggesting moral rootlessness!


58 posted on 12/22/2011 11:44:21 PM PST by mdmathis6 (Christ came not to make mankind into God but to put God into men!)
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To: Cronos
ok, so do you mean that circumcision is not required as per the Torah?

Here is where the “BIG LIE”, the heresy begins ... with those that claim Torah is connected to salvation. It is NOT.

What Torah brings is the blessings our Heavenly Father wished to bestow on us and the blessings ARE the terms of the covenant.

Dt 30:18-20 “I set before you blessing and cursing”

Just as there are terms to every covenant such as a marriage covenant which IS the foundation of the new covenant as it has always been the foundation of ALL covenants YHVH made with His chosen, the elect according to the fore knowledge of YHVH.

So yes, Torah does require circumcision for blessing but it is NOT a requirement for salvation. YHVH from the beginning has always put circumcision of the heart over that of the flesh. YHVH made covenant with Abraham and Abraham was blessed long before YHVH commanded him to be circumcised. If one studies, one finds that circumcision came about out of disobedience. Well that and the fact that “blood is one of the signs” of the covenant. But let's go back to the blessing and cursing.

What benefits come from circumcision? Life and health that leads to a long life. It is proven medical fact that uncircumcised males live shorter lives and are prone to infections that lead to a shortened life. These diseases also can and are passed to women which affects their ability to conceive. Thus blessings for those that follow Yah’s instructions and curses for those that don't. Blessings and curses just don't affect one person, they affect everyone around that person.

One of the oft cursed Torah instructions is that of food. Well ask yourself, wouldn't the Creator of all things know what is healthy for us and what is not? Would He not know what we put in our bodies brings either life or death, blessing or cursing? Of course He knew and thus the reason He set instruction as to what curses the body and what doesn't and since He doesn't change and neither does the DNA of what He called abomination where food is concerned. Would you as a parent set before your child something to eat that you knew was going to harm them physically and possibly even mentally? Our Heavenly Father is no different. He loves us so much that He took special care to let us know what is healthy for us and what is not and I thank Him for it daily as I no longer suffer from the affects of arthritis that I was not able to take medication for due to an allergy against all aspirin products. No more swelling and no more aches and pains with the ever changing barometer. The blessing has no only affected me, it has affected those around me that don't have to aid me in minuscule daily chores anymore like opening a new jar of pickles etc, etc.

Thus it is up to every individual what they chose as YHVH gave us the gift of choice, choose He which is Life or choose death. This is the crux of what Messiah and ALL his apostles taught. Learning Torah(which means instruction, not law) is not an overnight thing. No one is perfect, nor can we ever be but we are to seek righteousness and righteousness is following the ways of YHVH, not the ways of man.

John 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. 17 If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. 18 He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him. 19 Did not Moses give you the Torah, yet none of you keeps the Torah?

The Greek word “nomos” (law) was translated from the Hebrew word “torah” which is found in Ex 12:49 AND NOT to be confused with Eph 2 "ordinances" which is the Greek word “dogma” translated from the Hebrew word “dath” that is 1st found in Dan 2:13 where a decree was sent out by order of the king.

Acts 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Thus, as with any home or civilized society, the foundation is formed with instructions on how to keep peace and unity with the house or society. In the home we call them ‘house rules”, in societies that are called ‘constitutions’. One is always under them, but not until we break them do we become subject to the penalty for breaking them and it was the “penalty” that was nailed to the cross, not the actual ‘house rules/constitution’.

Thus if we are the children of YHVH, then we are all subject to His house rules, ONE for all and all for ONE.

“One Nation, Under YHVH, with Liberty and Justice for All ... James 1:25 “But he who looks into the perfect Torah of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.” We can chose to be blessed or we can choose to be cursed, but if one rejects Torah as not for him then I give you with the words of Paul & John that the doctrine of Christendom conveniently omits in their teaching.

Rm 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the Torah of God, nor indeed can be.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him ... 1John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God

Righteousness is obedience to YHVH, period. It is that simple and all He has ever asked is for His children to seek righteousness knowing full well that we are human. The definition of Faith is complete trust, the kind of trust every child has towards their parents. Faith is knowing He YHVH, as a loving parent, is always there to catch us when we stumble and pick us up when we fall with a firm but loving hand. Abraham, Isaac & Jacob were far from perfect, but they were faithful in seeking righteousness, therefore they found grace in the eyes of YHVH and from their righteousness, we are blessed. And it is our duty to continue that blessing for all generations to come by teaching our children and grandchildren in order that they are blessed and cloaked in the armor of YHVH so that they too can continue passing the blessings onto their future generations.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not ... 7Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you

John 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man

59 posted on 12/23/2011 2:08:40 AM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin
No one is perfect, nor can we ever be but we are to seek righteousness and righteousness is following the ways of YHVH, not the ways of man.

And...

Abraham, Isaac & Jacob were far from perfect, but they were faithful in seeking righteousness, therefore they found grace in the eyes of YHVH and from their righteousness, we are blessed.

I am pointing these out because in them *is* Hashem's definition of perfect. Noone can obtain "perfection" as man defines it, because noone can pin it down. What is acceptable in one place is an abomination in another. The goalpost can be raised or relocated, or a reward for "proper" behavior withdrawn or given to another. And people act as if it is Hashem who makes impossible demands.

Hashem's perfect:

Gen 6.9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect* in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Gen 17.1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect*.

*tamim - complete, whole, entire, sound

1 Kings 11.4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect* with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father. 5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. 6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.

Isa 38.2 Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the LORD, 3 And said, Remember now, O LORD, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect* heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.

*shalem - complete, safe, peaceful, perfect, whole, full, at peace

Acts 13.21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years. 22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Luke 5.22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts? 23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk? 24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house. 25 And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God.

John 5.5 And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole? 7 The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me. 8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. 9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

60 posted on 12/23/2011 3:29:18 AM PST by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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