Posted on 12/28/2011 5:47:17 PM PST by rzman21
idolatry.
Damn, my speeling.
FOTFLOL!!!!
In your dreams.......
On the contrary, we are set free from the bondage of Rome.
So tell me, who appointed you judge and jury concerning people's salvation? I thought that was Jesus' job. At least that's what Catholics tell us when they think they're being judged for not having the salvation they're not even sure they have themselves.
re: “Looks like you are just trying to be divisive.”
Don’t know what you are refering to. I haven’t even been on this thread. Look, just let it go for now, Ok? Have a Happy New Year and I pray the best for you and your family.
I hear the RCC accepts baptisms occurring in other churches as being valid?
Some yes, the primary requirement is the Triune formula, but I believe there are exceptions. I was baptized Lutheran and that was accepted.
The Church judges with the authority it received from Christ, so it is Christ who judges.
14. This holy Council first of all turns its attention to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself on scripture and tradition, it teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk. 16:16; Jn. 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it.
Vatican II Lumen Gentium
I guess Matthew 18:17 is not in your Bible. Look it up.
On the contrary, we are set free from the bondage of Rome.
>>You can be in denial and hide behind your twistings of scripture all you like just as Martin Luther did.
But that doesn’t change fact, as St. Irenaeus declared against the Gnostic heretics:
“[The Church] is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account we are bound to avoid them… We hear it declared of the unbelieving and the blinded of this world that they shall not inherit the world of life which is to come… Resist them in defense of the only true and life giving faith, which the Church has received from the Apostles and imparted to her sons.” (Against Heresies , Book III)
And St. Augustine, whose thought undergirds 80 percent of Protestant theology about salvation writes:
“No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church.” (Sermo ad Caesariensis Ecclesia plebem )
St. Cyprian of Carthage writes the following against the Novation heretics who left the Church of Rome to form their own rival body.
“The spouse of Christ cannot be adulterous; she is uncorrupted and pure. She knows one home; she guards with chaste modesty the sanctity of one couch. She keeps us for God. She appoints the sons whom she has born for the kingdom. Whoever is separated from the Church and is joined to an adulteress, is separated from the promises of the Church; nor can he who forsakes the Church of Christ attain to the rewards of Christ. He is a stranger; he is profane; he is an enemy. He can no longer have God for his Father, who has not the Church for his mother. If any one could escape who was outside the ark of Noah, then he also may escape who shall be outside of the Church. The Lord warns, saying, ‘He who is not with me is against me, and he who gathereth not with me scattereth.’ He who breaks the peace and the concord of Christ, does so in opposition to Christ; he who gathereth elsewhere than in the Church, scatters the Church of Christ. The Lord says, ‘I and the Father are one;’ and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, ‘And these three are one.’ And does any one believe that this unity which thus comes from the divine strength and coheres in celestial sacraments, can be divided in the Church, and can be separated by the parting asunder of opposing wills? He who does not hold this unity does not hold God’s law, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation.”
Cyprian,On Unity,6(A.D. 251),in ANF,V:423
“And besides, also, one only Catholic and Apostolic Church, which can never be destroyed, though all the world should seek to make war with it; but it is victorious over every most impious revolt of the heretics who rise up against it. For her Goodman hath confirmed our minds by saying, ‘Be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.’ “
Alexander of Alexandria,Epistle on the Arian Heresy,12(A.D. 321),in ANF,VI:296
“It follows after commendation of the Trinity, ‘The Holy Church.’ God is pointed out, and His temple. ‘For the temple of God is holy,’ says the Apostle, ‘which (temple) are ye.’ This same is the holy Church, the one Church, the true Church, the catholic Church, fighting against all heresies: fight, it can: be fought down, it cannot. As for heresies, they went all out of it, like as unprofitable branches pruned from the vine: but itself abideth in its root, in its Vine, in its charity. ‘The gates of hell shall not prevail against it.’ “
Augustine,Sermon to the Catechumens on the Creed,6:14(A.D. 377),in NPNF1,III:374
Those, therefore, who desert the preaching of the Church, call in question the knowledge of the holy presbyters, not taking into consideration of how much greater consequence is a religious man, even in a private station, than a blasphemous and impudent sophist. Now, such are all the heretics, and those who imagine that they have hit upon something more beyond the truth ... not keeping always to the same opinions with regard to the same things, as blind men are led by the blind, they shall deservedly fall into the ditch of ignorance lying in their path, ever seeking and never finding out the truth. It behoves us, therefore, to avoid their doctrines, and to take careful heed lest we suffer any injury from them; but to flee to the Church, and be brought up in her bosom, and be nourished with the Lord’s Scriptures. For the Church has been planted as a garden (paradisus) in this world; therefore says the Spirit of God, ‘Thou mayest freely eat from every tree of the garden,’ that is, Eat ye from every Scripture of the Lord; but ye shall not eat with an uplifted mind, nor touch any heretical discord.”
Irenaeus,Against Heresies,5:20 (A.D. 180),in ANF,I:547-8
“We must hold to the Christian religion and to communication in her Church, which is Catholic and which is called Catholic not only by her own members but even by all her enemies. For when heretics or the adherents of schisms talk about her, not among themselves but with strangers, willy-nilly they call her nothing else but Catholic. For they will not be understood unless they distinguish her by this name which the whole world employs in her regard”
Augustine,The True Religion, 7:12(A.D. 390),in JUR,3:40
Inasmuch, I repeat, as this is the case, we believe also in THE HOLY CHURCH, [intending thereby] assuredly the CATHOLIC. For both heretics and schismatics style their congregations churches. But heretics, in holding false opinions regarding God, do injury to the faith itself; while schismatics, on the other hand, in wicked separations break off from brotherly charity, although they may believe just what we believe. Wherefore neither do the heretics belong to the Church catholic, which loves God; nor do the schismatics form a part of the same, inasmuch as: it loves the neighbor, and consequently readily forgives the neighbor’s sins, because it prays that forgiveness may be extended to itself by Him who has reconciled us to Himself, doing away with all past things, and calling us to a new life. And until we reach the perfection of this new life, we cannot be without sins. Nevertheless it is a matter of consequence of what sort those sins may be.”
Augustine,On Faith and Creed,10:21(A.D. 393),in NPNF1,III:331
“I have often then inquired earnestly and attentively of very many men eminent for sanctity and learning, how and by what sure and so to speak universal rule I may be able to distinguish the truth of Catholic faith from the falsehood of heretical depravity; and I have always, and in almost every instance, received an answer to this effect: That whether I or anyone else should wish to detect the frauds and avoid the snares of heretics as they arise, and to continue sound and complete in the Catholic faith, we must, the Lord helping, fortify our own belief in two ways; first, by the authority of the Divine Law, and then, by the Tradition of the Catholic Church. But here some one perhaps will ask, Since the canon of Scripture is complete, and sufficient of itself for everything, and more than sufficient, what need is there to join with it the authority of the Church’s interpretation?’ For this reason,—because, owing to the depth of Holy Scripture, all do not accept it in one and the same sense, but one understands its words in one way, another in another, so that it seems to be capable of as many interpretations as there are interpreters. For Novation expounds it one way, Sabellius another, ... Arius ... another ... Pelagius ... another. Therefore, it is very necessary, on account of so great intricacies of such various error, that the rule for the right understanding of the prophets and apostles should be framed in accordance with the standard of Ecclesiastical and Catholic interpretation”
Vincent of Lerins,Commoniories,2:4,5(A.D. 434),in NPNF2,XI:132
People who were born into Protestantism have an excuse, but apostate Catholics simply do not unless they converted with their parents before the age of reason.
Okay. Now, why would you accuse Catholics of idolatry?
Very good. The god in the mirror is most proud of you.
It isn’t just the Triune formula, there are other factors. For example, RCC will accept Orthodox and Evangelical adult baptism, but in NO case will accept Mormon or JW baptisms.
Mormons do use the ‘Triune formula’ but don’t accept the Trinity doctrine.
On the contrary, we are set free from the bondage of Rome.
>>I have far more respect for Lutheranism than this.
Maybe she should consider the LCMS or WELS.
“Methodists are Baptists without guns.”
;)
“How can you dialog with a side that isn’t interested in dialog?”
You can’t. They have concrete minds— all mixed up and permanently set.
You guys may know a lot about your religious fathers, your catechism and your religious history, but the bible ain't your forte'...
I don't believe you'd know if it was an auto manual or not...But one's thing is clear, it's a complete mystery to you guys...
You can have your revisionist interpretation of the Bible.
It won’t save you. I’ve repeatedly shown from the Bible where Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide are unscriptural. Biblical literalism is a fool’s paradise.
Believe what you like man, it’s a free country.
Tell me what does the Song of Songs talk about? I take it you interpret that literally too.
Look up verse 4:5.
If we look to Philo of Alexandria in the 1st century A.D., the Jews believed the Bible should NOT be interpreted literally.
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patrology/schoolofalex/I-Intro/chapter3.html
Literalism is a 20th century reactionary American innovation.
Song of Songs 8:10
“Literalism is a 20th century reactionary American innovation.”
Agree wholeheartedly.
Whoever wrote this is ignorant of the words of God...
Evangelicals are paying the price dearly for their rejection of reason as postmodernism slowly rots away their churches.
Self-righteousness is only going to drive more young Evangelicals into the arms of atheism and agnosticism because feelings have taken center stage, and the young don’t care about doctrine.
You haven't shown any such thing...Not a single time...
HaaaHaaaaa...If the scriptures aren't literal, why did God have them written...Practicing a comedy routine??? Or maybe his bible was pretty light and he needed some filler material...
You crack me up...
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