Posted on 01/11/2012 7:34:56 PM PST by RnMomof7
Mary: Mother of God?
This article is prompted by an ad in the Parade Magazine titled: "Mary Mother of God: What All Mankind Should Know." The offer was made for a free pamphlet entitled "Mary Mother of Jesus" with this explanation: "A clear, insightful pamphlet explains the importance of Mary and her role as Mother of God."
This is quite a claim, to say the least! Nowhere in the Bible is Mary said to be the mother of God. I touched on this subject in a series on "Mary Co-Redeemer with Christ" printed recently.
Question: If Mary is the Mother of God, Who, may I ask, is the Father of God? Does God have a Father, and if He does, Who is His Mother?
The phrase "Mother of God" originated in the Council of Ephesus, in the year 431 AD. It occurs in the Creed of Chalcedon, which was adopted by the council in 451 AD. This was the declaration given at that time: "Born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God according to the Manhood." The purpose of this statement originally was meant to emphasize the deity of Christ over against the teaching of the Nestorians whose teaching involved a dual-natured Jesus. Their teaching was that the person born of Mary was only a man who was then indwelt by God. The title "Mother of God" was used originally to counter this false doctrine. The doctrine now emphasizes the person of Mary rather than the deity of Jesus as God incarnate. Mary certainly did not give birth to God. In fact, Mary did not give birth to the divinity of Christ. Mary only gave birth to the humanity of Jesus. The only thing Jesus got from Mary was a body. Every Human Being has received a sinful nature from their parents with one exception: Jesus was not human. He was divine God in a flesh body. This is what Mary gave birth to. Read Hebrews 10:5 and Phil 2:5-11.
Please refer to Hebrews 10:5 where we see. "...Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me."
The body of Jesus was prepared by God. In Matthew 1:18, "she was found with child of the Holy Ghost."
The divine nature of Jesus existed from before eternity, and this cannot be said of Mary Jesus never called her "mother". He called her "woman".
This doctrine deifies Mary and humanizes Jesus. Mary is presented as stronger that Christ, more mature and more powerful that Christ. Listen to this statement by Rome: "He came to us through Mary, and we must go to Him through her." The Bible plainly states that God is the Creator of all things. It is a blasphemous attack on the eternity of God to ever teach that He has a mother. Mary had other children who were normal, physical, sinful human beings. In the case of Jesus Christ, "His human nature had no father and His divine nature had no mother."
It is probably no coincidence that this false doctrine surrounding Mary was born in Ephesus. Please read Acts 19:11-41 and see that Ephesus had a problem with goddess worship. Her name was Diana, Gk. Artemis. You will not have to study very deep to find the similarities between the goddess Diana and the Roman Catholic goddess, Mary. It should be noted that the Mary of the 1st century and the Mary of the 20th century are not the same. Mary of the 1st century was the virgin who gave birth to the Messiah. Mary of the 20th century is a goddess created by the Roman Catholic Church. A simple comparison of what the Bible teaches about Mary and what the Roman Catholic Church teaches about her will reveal two different Marys. Mary is not the "Mother of God." If she were she would be GOD! There is only one true, eternal God. He was not born of a woman. Any teaching on any subject should be backed up by the word of God. If it cannot be supported by Scriptures, it is false doctrine.
I told you.
Jesus’ proclamation from the cross, “Woman, behold your son. Son, behold your mother.”
I know protestants must reject that is what Jesus meant, but again, if one looks throughout history, one sees that Christians thought of Mary as their mother because of those very words of Jesus.
In the Catholic Church ‘Idolatry’ is giving >divine honors to a creature. Adoration (worship) is an due God. Mary is venerated in the Catholic Church. (We are speaking about a mother & we should always be polite.)
I don't recall the prayer, though I may have heard it more than once. There are a gazillion prayers in the Catholic Church. Notice the word —intercession— in the prayer. The wording of the prayer sounds like >Love too. Mary as the mother of Jesus is also ‘our’ mother. Some people are consumed with the Love for God & the entire Kingdom of Heaven.
Anything you want to find out about the Catholic Church is on the Web. Sometimes you need ‘Official Church teachings’ to get the correct information. There are also numerous -world wide- associations that are especially devoted to Saint Mary. The other mothers in the world >Love Mary & understand what is to suffer as a mother. It must have been horrific for her to see her son Crucified for the Sins of others.
I remember who you are because you like Sarah Palin. Thumbs up on that one. BUT BUT, do you go to church? I originally thought most people were ‘normal’ on FreeRepublic. I do have >complete trust that you are ‘normal’ as you like Sarah Palin.> Hopefully, Sarah Palin will become our Saint Sarah Palin & vanquish the demons in the USA.
I think you need to study up on what the RCC actually says Jevette.
“The Catholic Church is Israel.” [http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2011/01/catholic-church-is-israel.html]
Catholics acknowledge that the Church is spiritual Israel or, in Catholic parlance, the "new Israel" (cf. CCC 877)
877 Likewise, it belongs to the sacramental nature of ecclesial ministry that it have a collegial character. In fact, from the beginning of his ministry, the Lord Jesus instituted the Twelve as "the seeds of the new Israel and the beginning of the sacred hierarchy." Chosen together, they were also sent out together, and their fraternal unity would be at the service of the fraternal communion of all the faithful: they would reflect and witness to the communion of the divine persons. For this reason every bishop exercises his ministry from within the episcopal college, in communion with the bishop of Rome, the successor of St. Peter and head of the college. So also priests exercise their ministry from within the presbyterium of the diocese, under the direction of their bishop. [http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/877.htm]
The CC most certainly thinks they have replaced Israel.
Does history indeed show that?
The Bible shows that we are One New Man. "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances: for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace:" Eph. 2:15.
I think God has a better opinion of His Church, the Body of Christ, than history has. I'll stay with God's opinion.
Well there certainly was some corruption that lingered. The were after all bought up on the Catholic faith.
I refer to Asmodeus. Reading Tobit might prove of interest.
They'll hold their breath and turn blue until God gives control of their own salvation over to them.
“The CC most certainly thinks they have replaced Israel.”
In your bizarro world maybe. Taking the point of view that Christmas and Easter are pagan, that the Catholic Church teaches idolatry and that Church on Sunday is a man made tradition without meaning (oh and do please correct me if I misunderstood your views, you are often obtuse and difficult to follow), well that odd - even bizarro - worldview makes it very difficult to accept any of your opinions about what the Universal Church teaches as having any probative value at all. Nothing personal, but really, why would you expect anyone with any understanding of true Christianity to take you seriously?
****The CC most certainly thinks they have replaced Israel.***
That is not Replacement Theology. The passage never says that the Church has replaced Israel.
The use of the word collegial here demonstrates what the Church believes is our relationship to Israel. Just as Scripture tells us that we are now coheirs...
Ephesians 3 Brothers and sisters: You have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for your benefit, namely, that the mystery was made known to me by revelation. It was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit: that the Gentiles are coheirs, members of the same body, and copartners in the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
***the seeds of the new Israel***
The new Israel is the community of ALL believers, whether Jew or Gentile bound together under the New and Everlasting covenant which is Jesus Christ.
Those Jews living under the old covenant, while still heirs to the promises of God, have chosen to remain in the old rather than believe in Jesus. They are not part of the Church and they still exist, they have not been replaced.
?
See 1267. Trying to explain what we believe to people who think we are pagan idolators may be asking too much of their own prejudiced worldviews.
www.nfl.com/promotions/directv/sundayticket
You have hit the nail right on the thumb.
I will tell you, participating in this thread has been a real education for me. This is why I am here and why sometimes I cannot stay away. It has been a fascinating discussion, very enlightening in so many ways.
Last night, after signing off, I couldn’t help but continue to think of the various things I had read on here throughout the day.
My last thought was of the irony that this thread is and that thought led me to realize again how God acts through His Church.
The discussion started off as a thread about “Mary, Mother of God” but for the whole day, all I and many others here did was discuss Jesus and His two natures.
And so I thought, this is exactly what the Catholic Church is always saying.....that Mary always points to and leads us to her Son.
Mary is who and what she is because Jesus is Who and What He is.
Mary is a signpost to Jesus. The Church has always believed it, ever since St. Luke wrote (painted) the first icon - of Mary. The Church will always believe it. Mary says to the waiters at Cana "Do whatever He tells you".
You may or may not decline to make use of that signpost. That is not the issue. But if one takes it upon one's self to declare one's own salvation, why then, the example of Mary has to be a rather irritating thorn. Mary submitted to God. The monastics submitted to God. The Church submits to God. Protestants, especially the failed Catholics, do not submit. They wish to overcome and conquer.
Remember your Milton...
Unlike you, I am a devotee of Jesus Christ, and follow his commandments.
.
I heard on the Rush Limbo show some time ago that the ‘cops’ were just going to let the fans of some NFL teams enter the stadiums & then they were going to put bars on all the exits so no one could get out.
Rush Limbo also then talked about FEMA camps. Danged if I know whether Rush Limbo was joking or not! I thought I should mention it as I wouldn’t anyone in my Church to miss a Holy of Obligation & end up in a FEMA camp.
Did you not understand? Sorry. The Catholic Church is NOT spiritual Israel. The Church the BOdy of Christ is ONE NEW MAN, not one man improved upon. NEW means something that has never been before. If you think you are spiritual Israel, then you’re obviously NOT one NEW man. But if you studied your Bible like God tells us to do, you would have already known that. 2 Tim. 2:15.
First, to pray to her implies that she can hear anyone on earth who calls out to her. That is a divine attribute.
O holy Mary, my Mistress, into thy blessed trust and special blessing, into the bosom of thy tender mercy,
This starts off with looking for blessings and mercy from Mary, rather than God.
this day, every day of my life and at the hour of my death, I commend my soul and body; to thee I entrust all my hopes and consolations, all my trials and miseries, my life and the end of my life,
Then the soul and body are entrusted not to God but to Mary. All hope is placed in Mary rather than Jesus.
that through thy most holy intercession and thy merits, all my actions may be ordered and disposed according to thy will and that of thy divine Son. Amen.
The intercession and merits of Mary replace the intercession and merits of Jesus. Finally it equates the will of Mary to the will of God.
BUT BUT, do you go to church?
Yes.
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)
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