Posted on 01/11/2012 7:34:56 PM PST by RnMomof7
Christ acquired His humanity, a nature like unto ours in all things excepting sin, at His conception — body, soul, will, energies — not just his human body.
“Not assumed not redeemed!” as St. Maximus the Confessor and the other Fathers professed against monophysitism, monergianism and monothelitism.
Everyone of us, here on Earth, has a human mother & an eternal soul that came from God. We are commanded to Honor our mothers. Please pray on it.
Jesus as God turned his Human Body over to his Mother Mary. Jesus grew in her womb, nursed at her breast & was cared for as a small baby. Mary, his mother, taught Jesus how to talk, walk & play all the games mothers play with their babies. (Such as Peekaboo & pat-a-cake pat-a-cake baker's man.) Jesus Christ chose Joseph & Mary to care for him when he was young.
We should take to heart the message of the Bible when Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit said to Mary, ‘...the mother of my Lord...’
Actually, there is a strong tradition, historical memory I want to say, among Orthodox Christian Arabs that Mohammed was a Nestorian missionary who went rogue. Textual analyses of the Qu’ran support the tradition, as there are passages that are nonsense as Arabic, but perfectly good East Syriac.
I have even speculated that “the Angel Gabriel”, at least in the first-written Suras, was not a delusion of Mohammed’s that he messenger sent to Mary was speaking to him, but a reference to the Bishop of Kirkuk, at that time one Mar Gabriel, using the ancient custom found in the Apocalypse of St. John and the usage of Syriac speaking churches of referring to the local bishop as “the angel of [name of local church]”. (The Orthodox bishop of Bosra-Haran in Syria to this day bears the title “the Angel of Haran”.)
I know one thing, though, and that’s that many people come to Christ and are saved by Him without having all of their theology all hammered out ahead of time. Some people haven’t been raised with the theological teaching necessary to get an in depth understanding of who Jesus really is but they do know that He can save and He does.
Then the Holy Spirit will take care of the details.
>>That’s why the First Council of Nicaea was wrong, right? It was defined by Catholic bishops, so it has to be wrong.
Hey if the Church got it wrong at the Council of Ephesus, maybe it got Nicaea wrong as well like Dan Brown claims.
Or maybe the early fathers were just wrong when they discussed the books that belonged in the New Testament.
So, let's review. The criteria used to pretend Mary is not the Mother of God means that there's no Trinity, no valid canon of the Scriptures, the doctrine of "Scripture Alone" is just pure hokum, and there's no reason whatsoever to refuse to accept the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist unless you consider what Christ Himself said to be a lie or you do not accept that particular book of the Bible.
Those who can't handle Mary being the Mother of Jesus Christ who is God in the flesh need to get used to hearing the words, " I never knew you".
I’m gonna agree a bit with you here. We’re not all tasked to be theologians.
However, there are some basics that need to be orthodox and clearly taught since “ the best thing to safeguard the correct understanding of Christ is good teaching.”
We’re having a theological discussion here, one about correct teaching. We teach that if you have a problem acknowledging Mary as Theotokus, this quite likely concerns a problem of understanding about Christ.
We’re seeing how this comes out here on this thread.
Snowflake Sect? Who is that? and Why did you chop off half of my sentence?
"He did not call her mother He called her as Woman. It was John who wrote mother not Jesus." So I guess He never had a Mother?
If someone is born of a human female that means he or she has a mother.
But what a minute!! Let me take another Puff! Oh!! Wow!! I think I understand you! Yes! I see it!!
Oh! You are soooo right!
Puff the magic dragon lived by the sea!
To help increase your “understanding”:
http://www.layevangelism.com/qreference/chapter10.htm
>>Yes, but who devised the theology to stitch these passages together under the guidance of the Holy Spirit?
I’d say you are using borrowed Catholic theology.
Is your mother not the mother of your daddy parts?
So why then all the hyperventilating whenever a non-Catholic tries to express the belief that Jesus IS God in the flesh, incarnated, but say it doesn't by default make Mary the Mother of God? I think they could have done a good job of explaining the Deity of Jesus without going into what it made Mary. Of course, if one believes that Jesus is Almighty God, the Son of God, in the flesh, it only stands to reason that Mary gave birth to the incarnate Son of God. I think they went overboard by calling Mary the Mother of God because look at all the consternation it has caused not to mention the developing dogmas that were invented outside of Holy Scripture that gave her attributes reserved to God alone. From this decision of the Council, evolved the sinlessness of Mary, her ever-virgin state and her bodily assumption - dogmas that all the "faithful" are required to give ascent under threat of excommunication. "Because we said so" is the reason given.
I think y'all can believe whatever you want about the subject, but other Christians can disagree and STILL be Christians. Nobody here is disrespecting Mary.
LOL!
Christology is at the root of all theology. How you understand Christology determines just about everything else.
The Liberal Protestants seem to have graduated from Nestorianism and Apollinarianism into full-blown Arianism or Modalism, for example.
What we have seen on this thread is warmed over Nestorianism and Apollinarianism.
Where, for example, does it say in the Bible that the Holy Spirit is God as Macedonius argued?
Or where does it say that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate, distinct persons like Sabellius argued against in favor of Modalism?
Mat 3:13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him.
Mat 3:14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
Mat 3:15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented.
Mat 3:16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;
Mat 3:17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
Here you have the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit together in one place at one time. Each distinctly, individually seen. It was not invented, it is a reality.
I don't see how you don't see the contradiction here. Isn't God Incarnate fully God?
If we said "Mary is the mother of the Godhead, or the Most Holy Trinity or God the Father or the Holy Spirit... that would be an error in the other direction.
I think it's fine to say Mary is the mother of God Incarnate. But to say she is *not* the mother of God is to make another error.
If your point here is we can, in common use mean the Holy Trinity when we say God, so we could have a problem saying Mary is the mother of God because we don't mean the Holy Trinity… then I would say, well, let's use clearer language when we talk, no problem, now we both know what we mean.
If it's a problem in this regard, it's no problem. What we see here is not that kind of problem, we're not confusing the terms, but objecting to a clear usage.
Bottom line, you can call Mary "Mary" if you wish. It is denying that she is the mother of God, understanding the terms, that usually is due to an error about Christ.
From this decision of the Council, evolved the sinlessness of Mary, her ever-virgin state and her bodily assumption - dogmas that all the “faithful” are required to give ascent under threat of excommunication.
>>You are incorrect.
Patristic teachings about Mary’s sinlessness, her perpetual virginity, and her Dormition predated the Council of Ephesus by centuries.
http://www.cin.org/users/jgallegos/mary.htm
What’s wrong with excommunication?
Actually Jesus is the Word aka. Scripture.
Luke 2:41-50
41 His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover.
42 And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast.
43 When they had finished the days, as they returned, the Boy Jesus lingered behind in Jerusalem. And Joseph and His mother[a] did not know it;
44 but supposing Him to have been in the company, they went a day’s journey, and sought Him among their relatives and acquaintances.
45 So when they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking Him.
46 Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.
47 And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.
48 So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously.”
49 And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?”
50 But they did not understand the statement which He spoke to them.
Here you have the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit together in one place at one time. Each distinctly, individually seen. It was not invented, it is a reality.
>>But it does not come out and say that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God or that they are three distinct persons and not modes of the same deity.
It took 400 years of wrangling to extinguish those heresies that had other ideas.
You’ve been taught to believe in the Trinity, so that’s how you read the passage. But in antiquity it wasn’t always clear to Gentile converts who were used to a multiplicity of deities or to Jews who had been taught God’s radical monotheism.
Jesus is God, genius.
"And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"Luke 1:43
"Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." Matthew 1:23
"Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call His name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of David His father; and He shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever." Luke 1:31-32
"And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." Luke 1:35
"But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent his Son, made of a woman, made under the law:" Galatians 4:4
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw His glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14
"I and the Father are one." John 10:30
"And he that seeth Me, seeth Him that sent Me." John 12:45
"Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known Me? Philip, he that seeth Me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?" John 14:9
"Thomas answered, and said to Him: My Lord, and my God." John 20:28
"For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally;" Colossians 2:9
"Looking for the blessed hope and coming of the glory of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ," Titus 2:13
Only RC Tradition establishes THAT title.
Hardly.
"In this work whereby she was made the Mother of God, so many and such good things were given her that no one can grasp them .... Not only was Mary the mother of Him who is born [in Bethlehem], but of Him who, before the world, was eternally born of the Father, from a Mother in time and at the same time man and God." Martin Luther
"It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of His Son, granted her the highest honor .... Elizabeth calls Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God." John Calvin
"It was given to her what belongs to no creature, that in the flesh she should bring forth the Son of God." Ulrich Zwingli
Ignore them in favor of God's Word.
Sounds like your comprehension of Scripture is quite lacking which isn't unusual since you have obviously never read much of it.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.