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Mary: Mother of God?
What Does the Bible say? ^ | 01/11/2012 | Bro. Lev Humphries,

Posted on 01/11/2012 7:34:56 PM PST by RnMomof7

Mary: Mother of God?

This article is prompted by an ad in the Parade Magazine titled: "Mary Mother of God: What All Mankind Should Know." The offer was made for a free pamphlet entitled "Mary Mother of Jesus" with this explanation: "A clear, insightful pamphlet explains the importance of Mary and her role as Mother of God."

This is quite a claim, to say the least! Nowhere in the Bible is Mary said to be the mother of God. I touched on this subject in a series on "Mary Co-Redeemer with Christ" printed recently.

Question: If Mary is the Mother of God, Who, may I ask, is the Father of God? Does God have a Father, and if He does, Who is His Mother?

The phrase "Mother of God" originated in the Council of Ephesus, in the year 431 AD. It occurs in the Creed of Chalcedon, which was adopted by the council in 451 AD. This was the declaration given at that time: "Born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God according to the Manhood." The purpose of this statement originally was meant to emphasize the deity of Christ over against the teaching of the Nestorians whose teaching involved a dual-natured Jesus. Their teaching was that the person born of Mary was only a man who was then indwelt by God. The title "Mother of God" was used originally to counter this false doctrine. The doctrine now emphasizes the person of Mary rather than the deity of Jesus as God incarnate. Mary certainly did not give birth to God. In fact, Mary did not give birth to the divinity of Christ. Mary only gave birth to the humanity of Jesus. The only thing Jesus got from Mary was a body. Every Human Being has received a sinful nature from their parents with one exception: Jesus was not human. He was divine God in a flesh body. This is what Mary gave birth to. Read Hebrews 10:5 and Phil 2:5-11.

Please refer to Hebrews 10:5 where we see. "...Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me."

The body of Jesus was prepared by God. In Matthew 1:18, "she was found with child of the Holy Ghost."

The divine nature of Jesus existed from before eternity, and this cannot be said of Mary Jesus never called her "mother". He called her "woman".

This doctrine deifies Mary and humanizes Jesus. Mary is presented as stronger that Christ, more mature and more powerful that Christ. Listen to this statement by Rome: "He came to us through Mary, and we must go to Him through her." The Bible plainly states that God is the Creator of all things. It is a blasphemous attack on the eternity of God to ever teach that He has a mother. Mary had other children who were normal, physical, sinful human beings. In the case of Jesus Christ, "His human nature had no father and His divine nature had no mother."

It is probably no coincidence that this false doctrine surrounding Mary was born in Ephesus. Please read Acts 19:11-41 and see that Ephesus had a problem with goddess worship. Her name was Diana, Gk. Artemis. You will not have to study very deep to find the similarities between the goddess Diana and the Roman Catholic goddess, Mary. It should be noted that the Mary of the 1st century and the Mary of the 20th century are not the same. Mary of the 1st century was the virgin who gave birth to the Messiah. Mary of the 20th century is a goddess created by the Roman Catholic Church. A simple comparison of what the Bible teaches about Mary and what the Roman Catholic Church teaches about her will reveal two different Marys. Mary is not the "Mother of God." If she were she would be GOD! There is only one true, eternal God. He was not born of a woman. Any teaching on any subject should be backed up by the word of God. If it cannot be supported by Scriptures, it is false doctrine.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS: blessedvirginmary; calvinismisdead; divinity; humanity; ignoranceisbliss; mariolatry; mary; motherofgod; nestorianheresy; nestorians; perpetualvirginity; theotokos
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To: boatbums; CynicalBear

So, let’s look at the passages you have posted.

***John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.***

When we read before and after this passage, we understand that Jesus is speaking of His Ascension, not His resurrection. We know this because after His resurrection, He was seen and heard and touched. We also know that the Holy Spirit did not come to them at Pentecost until after He had ascended. Therefore, this passage does not say in particular that His body was glorified, or a different one than the one that died and was buried.

***John 12:16 These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.***

Again, this passage refers to the ascension, because the Holy Spirit came to lead them after Jesus ascended into heaven, not after the resurrection.

***Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. ***

This passage does indeed refer to Jesus’ glorious body, and it also mentions that Jesus is able to subdue all things to Himself. But, let us consider at what point Jesus was able to do this. We know that Jesus, truly human was subject to the same temptations of the body that we ourselves are subject. But, we know that Jesus was able to subdue those temptations, and did so before His death and resurrection.

Here, Paul is saying that when we take on Christ, it is His abiding/working within us that subdues OUR bodies, changing that body so that its vile(sinful)nature is not what we succumb to, but is overcome(changed) and subdued by His love within us.

***Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.***

I am not sure why this was included regarding this conversation. This passage is in regards to the eternal priesthood of Jesus and not in regards to His body. Maybe you could explain to me why you included it.

***John 20:26-28 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”***

Now, this passage clearly shows that the body of the risen Christ is the same body which died and was buried. I am guessing that you included it because Jesus came and stood among them in a locked room.

Consider though, these instances whereby Jesus did similar feats while in His human body.

Jesus went out into the desert for forty days and forty nights and survived without food and water. Can any other human do this? Matthew 4:2

Jesus walked on water. Remember, Jesus sends them out on the water without Him and then, suddenly, He is there, walking on the water. The Apostles think they are seeing a ghost, but He assures them they are not. Do you see the parallel here to when He comes to them in the Upper Room? Matthew 14:22-33, Mark 6:45-52, John 6:16-21

In Luke 4, we read that those in His hometown rejected Him. They forced Him out of town, to the edge of a cliff where they intended to hurl Him down over the cliff. At the end of that story, we read that Jesus “passed through their midst” and went on His way. How did that happen? Scripture doesn’t say. It doesn’t say that they changed their minds and let Him go or that anyone stopped them. It simply says, He passed through their midst and went on His way.

In three of the Gospels, we read how Jesus calmed the sea by merely speaking to the winds and the water.
Matthew 8:23-27, Luke 8:23-25, Mark 4:37-41

And lastly, He bore the terrible scourging of the Roman soldiers and then carried His cross.

These things Jesus did before He was glorified.

Again, Scripture never says anything about His body being different than the one that died and was buried. The passages you cite do not say that Jesus’ body is no longer human, or that it was glorified. In fact, Scripture makes pains to emphasize that the risen body of Jesus was the same body and still human, because Jesus’ resurrected body still bore His wounds and He ate with them.


801 posted on 01/13/2012 11:01:59 AM PST by Jvette
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To: lastchance

Right again, as you swallow yet another camel...


802 posted on 01/13/2012 11:02:10 AM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: stonehouse01

Thanks very much for your reply.

In short, they have lost the Church, or willingly left her.

No idea of worship, no idea of Communion of Saints, no One Lord, one faith, one baptism. No idea of what is an idol, what is an icon, what is idolatry and what is not. Yet oh so willing to proclaim it.

Just individuals without relationship to orthodox faith, teaching, worship.

No knowledge or appreciation of history, ignorance of the basic concepts, judging the one holy and apostolic Church from individual prejudices, old resentments and ignorance.

Anytime we probe further into these surface-deep doctrines and beliefs, the fail on their own weight or reveal their absurdity.

Just individual with no coherence, no shared beliefs except what they oppose: anything that threatens their independence and perceived right to determine everything on their own authority. Chasing their own tails and call it following Christ.

I have sympathy for this, it is a sad a lonely thing to be alone in one’s own church.

But I don’t see any reason to take their opinions seriously or give any credence when ignorance has been so thoroughly exposed.


803 posted on 01/13/2012 11:05:48 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: metmom

“God’s not smart enough to have contigency plans, ...”

It’s not about contingencies. It’s about free will. Eve chose to say yes to Satan thereby closing the gates of heaven.

The only way to cancel out Eve’s mistake and simultaneously preserve mankind’s free will was for Mary to choose with her free will to say yes to God.

Mary’s yes is the perfect parallel to Eve’s no. Any contingency would wipe out our free will. God preserves our free will at all costs, even if we freely choose hell.

That’s why we love the Blessed Mother. If she had said no the gates of heaven would remain closed.


804 posted on 01/13/2012 11:06:28 AM PST by stonehouse01
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To: Jvette; boatbums; CynicalBear

>> “Scripture never says anything about His body being different than the one that died and was buried” <<

.
Wrong as wrong can be.

Scripture says that a biological, corruptible body cannot enter into the presence of God, and must be changed. It must “put on” incorruption.


805 posted on 01/13/2012 11:07:17 AM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: dagogo redux

I agree that it is sad that we argue over some things when the real issue that is presented in the bible from Genesis to Revelation is that man is a sinner, we broke Gods commandment first in the garden, and that nature was passed on to every man. But God promised to send someone to redeem us back to Him. That someone was Jesus. The Old Testament is filled with prophesy’s about Him. He is called The Son of God, Son of Man, The Great I AM, Counselor, Prince of Peace... Names that are attributed to God.

Jesus demonstrated and stated that He is God, He accepted worship from individuals that He healed and even raised from the dead. God said that He is a jealous God and will not share his worship with anyone. King Herod, was in Caesarea and people from Tyre and Sidon requested to have an audience as there was some quarrel with them and him. When King Herod had spoken to them, the people resopnded to him “the voice of a god, not a man” and they kept shouting that, and because King Herod would not give the praise to God, he was struck dead on the spot.(Acts 12:20-25) Thomas, one of Jesus disciples, when seeing Him physically alive after his crucifixion, death, burial, and ressurection said to Him “ My Lord and My God” and worshiped Him. Phillip, another disciple said to Him “show us the Father and it will be enough” Jesus said to him, “Phillip, have I not been with you long enough for you to know that I and the Father are one.’ The Jewish authorities had tried to stone Jesus many times because He said that He was equal with God. Read John, chaper 8, where Jesus states that I AM, which is the name that God used for himself when Moses asked Him what he should say to the leaders of Israel while still in Egypt, before the exodus.

The bible is not a mess. To those who have not acceptd Gods gift of forgivness and salvation through Jesus, yes, the Bible will seem a mess. To those who have been saved by the Grace of God through Jesus, the Bible is clear in its message that we all must be saved.


806 posted on 01/13/2012 11:11:56 AM PST by coincheck (Time is Short, Salvation is for Today)
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To: editor-surveyor
And another dodge.

I simply went by the definition in God’s word: If it is intended to look like God, it is an idol.

So are they idols or not? Why are avoiding this question? Can't you tell the difference?

Why should anyone trust your opinion applying God's word on idol worship, if you can't tell what is an idol and what is not - and why?

If you don't know what an idol is, your statements on idolatry are absolutely worthless.

807 posted on 01/13/2012 11:12:39 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Jvette

Many thanks for this fine post, done with clarity and with charity.


808 posted on 01/13/2012 11:12:59 AM PST by Running On Empty (The three sorriest words: "It's too late")
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To: D-fendr

“I don’t see any reason to take their opinions seriously ..”

No credence given whatsoever! One hopes that the scales will fall, but we will need the saints intercession for such a miracle.

Thank you for your insightful apologetics!


809 posted on 01/13/2012 11:13:43 AM PST by stonehouse01
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To: stonehouse01; metmom

>> “ If she had said no the gates of heaven would remain closed.” <<

.
Scripture please!

You picked that absurd idea out of thin air. The scriptures do not indicate that Mary said yes, nor that she had any say whatsoever. Gabriel presented to her what was definitely going to happen, and she doubted and resisted (both sins, BTW) and made excuses, but Gabriel pressed onward, not even acknowledging her opinion.


810 posted on 01/13/2012 11:14:59 AM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: dagogo redux

I agree that it is sad that we argue over some things when the real issue that is presented in the bible from Genesis to Revelation is that man is a sinner, we broke Gods commandment first in the garden, and that nature was passed on to every man. But God promised to send someone to redeem us back to Him. That someone was Jesus. The Old Testament is filled with prophesy’s about Him. He is called The Son of God, Son of Man, The Great I AM, Counselor, Prince of Peace... Names that are attributed to God.

Jesus demonstrated and stated that He is God, He accepted worship from individuals that He healed and even raised from the dead. God said that He is a jealous God and will not share his worship with anyone. King Herod, was in Caesarea and people from Tyre and Sidon requested to have an audience as there was some quarrel with them and him. When King Herod had spoken to them, the people resopnded to him “the voice of a god, not a man” and they kept shouting that, and because King Herod would not give the praise to God, he was struck dead on the spot.(Acts 12:20-25) Thomas, one of Jesus disciples, when seeing Him physically alive after his crucifixion, death, burial, and ressurection said to Him “ My Lord and My God” and worshiped Him. Phillip, another disciple said to Him “show us the Father and it will be enough” Jesus said to him, “Phillip, have I not been with you long enough for you to know that I and the Father are one.’ The Jewish authorities had tried to stone Jesus many times because He said that He was equal with God. Read John, chaper 8, where Jesus states that I AM, which is the name that God used for himself when Moses asked Him what he should say to the leaders of Israel while still in Egypt, before the exodus.

The bible is not a mess. To those who have not acceptd Gods gift of forgivness and salvation through Jesus, yes, the Bible will seem a mess. To those who have been saved by the Grace of God through Jesus, the Bible is clear in its message that we all must be saved.


811 posted on 01/13/2012 11:15:33 AM PST by coincheck (Time is Short, Salvation is for Today)
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To: stonehouse01; D-fendr

>> “Thank you for your insightful apologetics!” <<

.
Apologetics for Satan? Now that is a new one for the RF.


812 posted on 01/13/2012 11:17:27 AM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: metmom
I find it highly unlikely that any Jewish girl would have turned down the privilege of being the Messiah's mother.

About as unlikely as turning down the privilege of walking with God in the Garden of Eden?

:)

813 posted on 01/13/2012 11:17:27 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

:) :) :)


814 posted on 01/13/2012 11:19:48 AM PST by Running On Empty (The three sorriest words: "It's too late")
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To: editor-surveyor; stonehouse01
Apologetics for Satan?

Your opinion is thus-far worthless. It doesn't even withstand the slightest examination. And, we see in your recent posts, that even an attempt at defending your opinion is gone.

Devoid of coherent response; only accusations and insults remain.

815 posted on 01/13/2012 11:22:30 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Indeed! Paul says that “the last Adam”, Christ, was raised up as a spirit. (1 Cor. chapter 15)

Paul contrasts the “corruptible” fleshly body with the “incorruptible” spirit body and sums up in vs. 50 by saying plainly, ‘flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom’.

Conclusion: No bodily assumptions, Not Jesus, not Mary, not anyone’s flesh and blood body taken into heaven.

816 posted on 01/13/2012 11:26:42 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: metmom; stonehouse01; smvoice

It’s irrelevant what Jesus looked like and probably the reason we don’t have any pictures is so that nobody violates the 2nd commandment and makes images to worship.

I think the important part is in creating an image which purports to be Christ, which knowingly is *not* Christ - The image above is surely familiar to everyone... In my own particularly Reformed Protestant home and religious environment, this image is probably the most significant depiction of Christ. I grew up thinking this WAS a picture of Christ, as no one bothered to tell a child that it was merely an artist's conception.

The imposition of this image, at some subconscious level, remains in me. Call it a bias... a preconceived notion... It is one that I am very cautious about. What does one do if an entity appearing as this image approaches in dream or vision? One who is not well armored might accept that entity on face value, simply because the visual image is already in place.

Likewise, what of a world leader who has these attributes? How much of his rise to power might be credited simply to his looks? Don't believe it? Laughing it off? Not so fast... Do an image search for 'Maitreya' and look at the similarity of features. Depictions which are not accurate can be dangerous things.

It’s bad enough that anyone worships a small, white, round wafer because it allegedly represents Christ.

More than that - It doesn't represent Him... According to what I have been told, they believe it IS Him. Odd how the ceremony is so similar to the ceremony of the other 'wafer god', Mithras, isn't it?

817 posted on 01/13/2012 11:31:00 AM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: gghd; smvoice; metmom
>> We know Christ built a Church & it was built on Peter.<<

Nonsense. The church is built on Christ. There is no other Rock.

Deut. 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

2 Sam. 22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; 3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.

Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."

Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."

Rom. 9:33, "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed."

1 Cor. 3:11, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ,"

1 Cor. 10:4, "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock (petras) which followed them; and the rock (petra) was Christ."

>> Holy Mother our Church makes sense.<<

Not when you read scripture.

Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Believe what you will but scripture contradicts the CC all to often to trust your eternal future to that type of organization.

818 posted on 01/13/2012 11:36:25 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: roamer_1

Yes, we’ve already learned on here that the whole incarnated god, resurrected god, etc. is just warmed-over myth.

Be careful what you say from ignorance.


819 posted on 01/13/2012 11:37:00 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
>>If you cannot be given examples and say whether they are idols or not and why, there is no reason for anyone to put any credence in your judgement of idols or idol worship.<<

If scripture doesn’t convince you that what the CC does is contrary to God’s will there is nothing I can add. Continue using “images of God” at you own risk.

820 posted on 01/13/2012 11:38:42 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: D-fendr; roamer_1

>> “Be careful what you say from ignorance.” <<

.
Be careful what you Project, from ignorance!


821 posted on 01/13/2012 11:44:02 AM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: D-fendr; editor-surveyor; metmom; lastchance; smvoice
What is your obsession with what I think? Are Catholics so indoctrinated to follow man that they have reduced scripture to a nuisance or diversion? Scripture clearly states that making images of God is against His will and gives clear results for doing so.

What does “changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man” mean to you?

822 posted on 01/13/2012 11:46:17 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
Dodge, dodge, dodge, deflect. Rinse and repeat.

If scripture doesn’t convince you that what the CC does is contrary to God’s will there is nothing I can add.

Yet you willingly add your opinion and accusations of idolatry - until challenged, then you fold, again.

It is not scripture that's being examined here; it's your interpretation, your view, your opinion.

If you don't know what is an idol, your proclamations on here about idolatry are completely worthless.

Your whole basis for doctrine has be exposed as self-negating, your opinions on scripture are just that, your opinions which cannot withstand examination.

823 posted on 01/13/2012 11:46:17 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: CynicalBear

I was pinged in the post you site, I assure you I don’t care what you think. I do care that you spread error and are not able to grasp the flaws in your argument.


824 posted on 01/13/2012 11:51:42 AM PST by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: CynicalBear
What is your obsession with what I think?

I don't care what you think, it's just your opinion relevant to no one but you. If you leave the accusations and attacks out of it, then I won't expose your thinking for what it is.

Don't define your faith by attacking the Church and I won't call you on it. If you can't or won't defend your attacks, just stop them.

825 posted on 01/13/2012 11:52:04 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr; CynicalBear

>> “Dodge, dodge, dodge, deflect. Rinse and repeat.” <<

.
Is exactly what catholics do when presented with the scriptures, which condemn every practice that is at the heart of catholic ‘worship.’

.


826 posted on 01/13/2012 11:52:52 AM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: wmfights

I have an idea that Mary worship might very well be one of the main central attractions which will unite the false religions...They all have a female goddesses, just differing names.

Cathoicism couldn’t very well create a ‘new’ female goddess to appease the demands of the pagans they brought into the church so many years ago, so it made perfect sense to create one out of Mary without seemingly breaking the commands of Gods, and create the word venerating for their worship of her which would then Justify to themselves this was acceptable...well...you get the picture....Mary will be the central draw of commonality among the religions uniting.


827 posted on 01/13/2012 11:53:15 AM PST by caww
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To: editor-surveyor

Editor do you agree that mankind is made in the image and likeness of God? Do you believe that Christ Himself is the First Born Image of the Invisible God?

Do you allow any photographs of yourself to be taken? I am presupposing you are not Amish.


828 posted on 01/13/2012 11:53:54 AM PST by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: D-fendr

And it’s out of the ballpark as D-fendr wings one over the plate for a home run.


829 posted on 01/13/2012 11:55:35 AM PST by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: editor-surveyor; CynicalBear

One would have to know what worship is to speak about it. The same worship that the early martyrs of the Church sacrificed their lives for.

But thanks for your accusations, I’ll give them the consideration they deserve.


830 posted on 01/13/2012 11:56:33 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: lastchance

>> “do you agree that mankind is made in the image and likeness of God?” <<

.
Made in the image and likeness of God by God!

Can you grasp the difference?


831 posted on 01/13/2012 11:59:06 AM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: editor-surveyor; Jvette; boatbums; CynicalBear

Ya know, I do have to give this one to Editor Surveyor. Christ’s body as our bodies will be was changed. That does not contradict Him offering physical proof to Thomas of His wounds.


832 posted on 01/13/2012 12:00:05 PM PST by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: editor-surveyor

So no photos of your dear ones, then?


833 posted on 01/13/2012 12:02:29 PM PST by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: Jvette; boatbums; smvoice; caww; RnMomof7
>> In fact, Scripture makes pains to emphasize that the risen body of Jesus was the same body and still human<<

There is so much error in that post that I will only respond with on portion of scripture which your post calls a lie.

1 Corinthians15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

If you claim it was the same body after resurrection as it was before you must deny that Jesus was truly human.

834 posted on 01/13/2012 12:03:46 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: D-fendr
Yes, we’ve already learned on here that the whole incarnated god, resurrected god, etc. is just warmed-over myth.

I have no idea how this statement applies to my post.

Be careful what you say from ignorance.

By all means, enlighten me.

835 posted on 01/13/2012 12:04:19 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: narses
Are you claiming that Catholic’s worship idols?

Of course they do and obvious to any other than catholics. Nothings changed since they first brought idolatry into the church...they just added more along the way...

...colored it in with flavorful language and then taught the people that a duck isn't a duck....

if one prays to an idol,.. bows to an idol,.. marches in parades with idols,... throws flowers before idols,.... kisses idols,... lights candles for idols,... builds shrines to celebrate idols... statues of idols,.....but it's not idolatry or worship...R-i-g-h-t-ooooo...Got it.

836 posted on 01/13/2012 12:04:54 PM PST by caww
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To: roamer_1
You're already enlightened. Just apply what you posted to Christ in the same manner.

If one applies, then the other applies.

And then you're well on the road to a common atheist position.

Hence, be careful, friend, understand what you are saying before you say it.

837 posted on 01/13/2012 12:08:37 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: caww
if one prays to an ido

What is an idol, caww? Would you know one if you saw it?

838 posted on 01/13/2012 12:10:38 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: metmom

Mother of God?.....can’t be...sh’ed have to have been before God was to be his mother...and HE is from etermity to eternity, no beginning or end......but catholicism loves to keep Mary on the frontburning she’s the common denominator among all pagan and false religions...she’s the tie that will bind them together in that time when religions unite...even the eeuroweenies and new agers will come on board as they too have their femals Goddess.....a female goddess thread runs thru all false religions and cults.


839 posted on 01/13/2012 12:11:19 PM PST by caww
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To: caww
I have an idea that Mary worship might very well be one of the main central attractions which will unite the false religions...They all have a female goddesses, just differing names.

I have a similar concern - the linkage between the Roman 'Mary' and Islam's 'Fatima' is being woven even now by the vision at Fatima. Islam already reveres Mary, and blending her with Mohammed's daughter (who has the same visceral following in Islam as Rome has toward Mary) sets the stage for a goddess level unification.

840 posted on 01/13/2012 12:11:44 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: D-fendr; presently no screen name; smvoice; RnMomof7; metmom; boatbums; caww; editor-surveyor; ...
>> Your whole basis for doctrine has be exposed as self-negating, your opinions on scripture are just that, your opinions which cannot withstand examination.<<

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Whether an image of what you think God looks like, whether you think you are worshiping that image or not, it’s idolatry according to the clear teaching of scripture. The Catholic Church and those who follow the teaching of that church are using “images of God” and are practicing idolatry.

I pray the number of times I was given the opportunity to post those verses allowed for more who lurk to see the truth of scripture and the deceit of the RCC. Thank you for the opportunity.

841 posted on 01/13/2012 12:12:24 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: lastchance

>> “So no photos of your dear ones, then?” <<

.
I don’t mind so much the camels that you swallow,

But please don’t offer me one to swallow too. This example of gnat straining is more than enough.


842 posted on 01/13/2012 12:13:45 PM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: lastchance
>> I do care that you spread error and are not able to grasp the flaws in your argument.<<

Then maybe you should show me from scripture where God rescinded His restriction on making images of Him and said it was something that could be done.

843 posted on 01/13/2012 12:14:54 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: editor-surveyor

Scripture says that a biological, corruptible body cannot enter into the presence of God, and must be changed. It must “put on” incorruption.

Do you really not understand that Paul is speaking here to US, that we must put on the incorruptibility of CHRIST?

He is not speaking of Christ here, otherwise, he would be saying that Jesus was subject to sin, which is heresy.


844 posted on 01/13/2012 12:16:23 PM PST by Jvette
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To: D-fendr
>>I don't care what you think<<

Bwahahahahahahahaha!

>>If you can't or won't defend your attacks, just stop them.<<

I has become obvious that just posting scripture attacks the CC.

845 posted on 01/13/2012 12:17:16 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: D-fendr
Why would you ask?..... No doubt I'm familiar with what idolatry is...catholics put on a good show of it so not hard to see.

Do you think doing a word study is going to change the facts that many catholics bow, pray to, light candles to, have festivals and parades with images of idols, and builds shrines to their idols.... as people attempt to even touch these wooden figures in hopes for healing or favors......you can't be so Nieve... well maybe.

846 posted on 01/13/2012 12:17:48 PM PST by caww
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To: CynicalBear
Oh so willing to proclaim idolatry, oh so unwilling to demonstrate knowledge of what an idol even is.

it’s idolatry

Would you know an idol if you saw it?

Is this an idol?

If you can't say, then your opinion: "it's idolatry" is absolutely worthless.

Thank you for the opportunity.

Likewise.

847 posted on 01/13/2012 12:17:48 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: roamer_1; metmom; CynicalBear
Absolutely, totally, and completely CORRECT, roamer. THAT'S the point. WHAT YOU SAID! And THANKS for saying it!

"For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground; he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." Isaiah 53:3.

Hardly the "picture" of Christ that people are used to seeing. And THIS is yet another reason that so many ARE deceived SO easily by SO MANY things. I would include "apparitions" and "visions" of Mary in this, too. For SURE.

848 posted on 01/13/2012 12:18:12 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing is for an eternity..)
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To: D-fendr
You're already enlightened.

Then I cannot be ignorant. Make up your mind, please.

Just apply what you posted to Christ in the same manner. If one applies, then the other applies.

Again, I don't see what you are driving at.

And then you're well on the road to a common atheist position.

I can guarantee to you that I am FAR away from atheism.

Hence, be careful, friend, understand what you are saying before you say it.

Again, enlighten me.

849 posted on 01/13/2012 12:18:52 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: caww
Why would you ask?

Why should anyone take your opinion and accusations of idolatry seriously if you don't know what an idol is and couldn't tell one if you saw it?

850 posted on 01/13/2012 12:19:24 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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