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Mary: Mother of God?
What Does the Bible say? ^ | 01/11/2012 | Bro. Lev Humphries,

Posted on 01/11/2012 7:34:56 PM PST by RnMomof7

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To: stfassisi; metmom
IOW, mm, you may be sullying this thread with TOO MUCH TRUTH...;)

How about this, stfassisi: "Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." 2 Tim. 4:2.

Unfortunately for you stfassisi, mm is not doing as it appears you would like her to do: Sit down and shut up.

Fortunately for US, she is doing exactly what God wants her, and all believers to do: as the above Scripture notes.

1,101 posted on 01/13/2012 8:06:32 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing is for an eternity..)
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To: CynicalBear; D-fendr

You are simply the ‘Pope’ of your own church. & You interpret things to suit your own purposes. + You ‘project’ on to other people by telling other people ‘what they think.’

Please keep reading the Bible & please read the documents of the Catholic Church. Please pray for the Christian Virtues of Faith, Hope, and Love. Especially, Love as everything is meaningless without it.


1,102 posted on 01/13/2012 8:06:53 PM PST by gghd
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To: conservativguy99

Besides, I’d lay money, and lots of it, on the fact that every young Jewish girl who was a virgin was dreaming of the privilege of being the mother of the Messiah.

You think God wouldn’t have had lots of takers on that offer, or that any of the other ones would have refused?

What girl in her right mind would turn down what God said He was going to do for her?


1,103 posted on 01/13/2012 8:09:04 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Jvette
The Church does not teach or hold that Peter was to “replace” God. Peter leads the Church on earth after Christ’s ascension and as there is no doubt that the Church still needs leading, his authority as given Him by Christ is handed down through the ages, along with the faith.

Really...What is Peter's legacy??? What is revealed in scripture of the leadership of Peter that you are following???

What are the hallmarks of Peter's leadership that you are presenting to the world???

Peter was commissioned to preach to Jews, to convert them to become Christians...

Why is it not the focus of your religion to search out Jewish conclaves and to preach to the Jews, only???

1,104 posted on 01/13/2012 8:10:50 PM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: stfassisi
Posting around 50 posts in one day on FR is not Christian. It's the sign of someone who is addicted to self who is screaming out inside for attention.

Armchair psychology. Cute.

1,105 posted on 01/13/2012 8:10:55 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: CynicalBear
What a shame the some think they “go to” church

Living life around FR replaces a church instead to some people.

It's actually a golden calf like alcohol is to an alcoholic.

1,106 posted on 01/13/2012 8:11:54 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi
Posting around 50 posts in one day on FR is not Christian. It's the sign of someone who is addicted to self who is screaming out inside for attention.

Oh, and do you tell that to the Catholics as well who post that often?

1,107 posted on 01/13/2012 8:12:02 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: stfassisi; metmom
>>Posting around 50 posts in one day on FR is not Christian.<<

And if your retired suffering from Post Polio syndrome without the ability to walk but a few feet? How about if you have all of that and it’s cold outside and cold makes the symptoms worse? How about if God has put you in the position to give you the time others may not have to defend the faith in a forum such as this? Are you the arbiter of all acts and lifestyles? Do you take it upon yourself to instruct all on how they should structure their life? Could you maybe post the directive from God where He told you to tell others what they should be doing with their life?

1,108 posted on 01/13/2012 8:12:18 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: stonehouse01; metmom
It’s not about contingencies. It’s about free will. Eve chose to say yes to Satan thereby closing the gates of heaven.

That’s why we love the Blessed Mother. If she had said no the gates of heaven would remain closed.

Let's not forget a salient point here, stonehouse, Catholicism teaches Mary was "Immaculately Conceived", meaning she was born without sin AND that she never sinned after she was born her entire life, that's what you believe, right? So, if Mary had "free will" and she could have said no, why was she made "sinless"? Would it have been retroactive? Now, I fully believe that we have free will to choose or reject the grace of God, but I seriously don't believe God didn't know the outcome of this.

If Mary HAD said no, if she could have said no, would not God have another picked out and maybe we would have never even heard of Mary instead we would call, say, Hannah, blessed? So, I don't really see how one can give all the glory to Mary - who you said, "if she had said no the gates of heaven would remain closed" - if God either already had her picked out, or could have just as easily chosen another virgin more willing. Do you agree? I mean, God's will WILL be done will it not?

1,109 posted on 01/13/2012 8:13:44 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: smvoice

Accusations of *hate* are all that’s left in the arsenal when one has lost the debate.

I see it on the Mormon threads by the Mormons as well.


1,110 posted on 01/13/2012 8:13:52 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
Oh, and do you tell that to the Catholics as well who post that often?

No one should post in excess unless it's about prayer and Devotions

1,111 posted on 01/13/2012 8:14:54 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: Jvette
The first disciples were Jews, the first martyr for Christ, a Jew and there were Jews throughout the known world who accepted the Gospel of Jesus Christ and who helped to build His Church with their lives and their deaths.

Martyrs did not build any church...What if they were all martyrs??? There wouldn't have been any church...

1,112 posted on 01/13/2012 8:15:59 PM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: stfassisi

Are you going to post the directive you received from God telling you that it was you who should tell people how to structure the time God gave them?


1,113 posted on 01/13/2012 8:15:59 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear; Jvette
they were drinking from a spiritual rock

and the rock (petra) was Christ.

It was "a" spiritual rock. It doesn't mean there is exclusively one rock. This particular rock was Christ.

The rock below is not Christ.


1,114 posted on 01/13/2012 8:19:03 PM PST by Al Hitan (Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.)
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To: CynicalBear

It’s all that control that Catholicism seems to engender.


1,115 posted on 01/13/2012 8:21:00 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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Comment #1,116 Removed by Moderator

To: stfassisi; CynicalBear

So why are you here posting?


1,117 posted on 01/13/2012 8:24:02 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: gghd
You interpret things to suit your own purposes.

Attributing motives to another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

1,118 posted on 01/13/2012 8:24:02 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: lastchance
Or do you believe that God is restricted by time?

God operates by time...Until there is no longer time...Your religion's philosophy on the issue doesn't change a thing...A person can't read the bible and not know that...

1,119 posted on 01/13/2012 8:24:35 PM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: CynicalBear

You’re the only one talking about a directive you received from God.

Do you think this is what you’re doing here?


1,120 posted on 01/13/2012 8:25:50 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: narses
So why does anyone build a church building?

To get out of the rain...

1,121 posted on 01/13/2012 8:26:36 PM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: CynicalBear; Jvette; lastchance

I Cor. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


1,122 posted on 01/13/2012 8:27:57 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: CynicalBear

Don’t get caught up as protestants do in the The Rock which is God and the rock which is Peter.

It is the concept of both/and that which must be confusing.

There is no doubt that Jesus gave Peter the name “rock” and followed that naming with the claim that He would build His Church on that rock.

But, that does not mean that Peter is the Church, just as it does not mean that Peter replaces God, Jesus as the rock.

What it means is that Jesus assures us that we can trust the Church, because He is the one that laid her foundation.

*** Now show proof that Peter was head of the church in Rome.***

I will not chase you down that rabbit hole.

Deflect and dodge and then move the goalposts.

Not gonna do it.


1,123 posted on 01/13/2012 8:28:08 PM PST by Jvette
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To: stfassisi; metmom
>> No one should post in excess unless it's about prayer and Devotions<<

I still haven’t seen that directive from God you seem to think you have.

1,124 posted on 01/13/2012 8:29:56 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

***It wasn’t Peter who was the declarative last word.***

It was James, agreeing with the Peter who received the revelation that was being discussed. It was James that led the others to accept what Peter had declared at the beginning of the council. But, it was to Peter that the Spirit made the revelation.

This does not conflict at all with Catholic teaching.


1,125 posted on 01/13/2012 8:31:15 PM PST by Jvette
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To: smvoice
Your typing does not offend me. Your comment about “inane responses” did. If a person spent as much time in God’s Word as he does in man’s words, our conversation would be MUCH different.

Odd I didn't notice you copying the prots on this lsit have have said much more outrageous things and engagged in personal attacks.

Let me remove the tree trunks from your eyes.

1,126 posted on 01/13/2012 8:32:53 PM PST by verga (We get what we tolerate and increase that which we reward)
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To: conservativguy99; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...

Do Catholics think that Mary was the first, or only, person to ever say to God, *Thy will be done*???????

Good grief, that’s the heart cry of every born again believer and we’ve all done it when called to do something at some time in our lives.

It’s the natural response of a regenerated heart, not even a consideration of saying *no*.

Her saying that doesn’t make her any more special than any other believer who’s submitted to God’s will for their life.

God called her to carry the Messiah, He calls us to do other things. We all obey in what God calls us to do. She did her job, I do mine, others do theirs.

It doesn’t make any one person any better than any other.

It’s not WHAT we’re called to do but our obedience to do that counts.


1,127 posted on 01/13/2012 8:33:08 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Al Hitan
>>It doesn't mean there is exclusively one rock.<<

Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."

Maybe you know better than God?

1,128 posted on 01/13/2012 8:34:21 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: lastchance
God is eternal. All time is the same to God. To Him there is no past, no present, no future. He exists totally within all times. It is all one to Him.

We know that God did not reveal this to you or anyone else thru the scriptures...So how did you get this information???

1,129 posted on 01/13/2012 8:39:12 PM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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>> I would think the last place they would spend time on is FR.<<

Why don’t you lay out a plan for my time but make sure you attach that directive from God when you send it to me. K?

1,130 posted on 01/13/2012 8:39:20 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

placemarker


1,131 posted on 01/13/2012 8:39:58 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: CynicalBear; Jvette
Maybe you know better than God?

When was Isaiah written? When was the Church established? Is God powerless to name another rock to lead the Church? Was Peter named Rock by Jesus?

1,132 posted on 01/13/2012 8:40:03 PM PST by Al Hitan (Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.)
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To: stfassisi
>>You’re the only one talking about a directive you received from God.<<

It was you telling people how they should spend their time wasn’t it?

>>Do you think this is what you’re doing here?<<

Isn’t that between me and God?

1,133 posted on 01/13/2012 8:42:45 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Iscool

The Church does as Jesus did, which is proclaim the truth.

Some will follow, some will not.


1,134 posted on 01/13/2012 8:43:11 PM PST by Jvette
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To: Al Hitan; CynicalBear
Scripture does not contradict Scripture because God does not and CANNOT change.

If God is the rock and He says there is no other, then what comes after must be interpreted in that light. If there's a conflict than the interpretation which disagrees with it has to go.

Matthew 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

Luke 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

1,135 posted on 01/13/2012 8:45:34 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: verga
Here do a test get a defibrillator and shock yourself, get back to me after you self resurrect.

Who or what then goes to purgatory???

1,136 posted on 01/13/2012 8:45:39 PM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: Jvette
>>Not gonna do it.<<

AKA There is none.

1,137 posted on 01/13/2012 8:46:30 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Religion Moderator; D-fendr

Please clarify you comment. As all people seem to have motives in religion. Hopefully, it is to spread the message of Salvation through Jesus Christ.

My comment was a continuation of my earlier posts. In the Bible 2 Peter 1: 20-21,> ‘Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will’ but rather human beings moved by the Holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.’

It was an ongoing discussion that ultimately seemed to express a ‘hatred’ of the Catholic Church. I’m curious about what you interpreted that made this comment ‘personal’? Is this a subjective decision on your part? The ‘motive’ of a numerous group seems to ‘hate’ on the Catholic Church & deny any common discussion of the Bible, History or events in the world.

Hopefully, you’ll be more explicit in your explanation. I did not deem it to be a personal attack but rather an explanation of why there are no common grounds for any discussion.


1,138 posted on 01/13/2012 8:48:37 PM PST by gghd
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To: verga
"Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, the Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. Therefore let no man glory in men..." 1 Cor. 3:18-21.

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." Col. 2:8.

I don't know, but I seemed able to see what "man's wisdom" and "philosophy" mean to God. Even through the "tree trunks in my eyes"...

1,139 posted on 01/13/2012 8:49:42 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing is for an eternity..)
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To: metmom

placemarker


1,140 posted on 01/13/2012 8:50:19 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: smvoice; conservativguy99; metmom

***Actually, how could she have said “no”, when, according to your Church, SHE was immaculately conceived and was sinless...her whole life... saying “no” would have been a sin against God, would it not?***

Actually, this shows an absolutely complete absence of understanding of what Scripture says and what the Church teaches, which is in accordance with Scripture.

God, did in fact know that Mary would say yes. He knows all from our beginning to our end. That is why He prepared her to receive the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit and thus, Jesus in her womb.

God did not influence her, He does not compel love or obedience. He responded to her obedience, which He knew from the beginning. She is the woman of Genesis, 3:15.


1,141 posted on 01/13/2012 8:51:31 PM PST by Jvette
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To: metmom
Scripture does not contradict Scripture because God does not and CANNOT change.

Did God become human in Jesus Christ?

If God is the rock and He says there is no other,

When the Old Testament was written that was true. But times change and He established a Church. If He names someone Rock is his name Rock? Naming Peter Rock does not mean he is making Peter God.

1,142 posted on 01/13/2012 8:51:42 PM PST by Al Hitan (Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.)
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To: gghd
Because the debate of deeply held religious beliefs can easily become contentious leading to flame wars, the Religion Forum has its own guidelines. Click here to read them.
1,143 posted on 01/13/2012 8:54:05 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: CynicalBear
Since you have all that free time how about learning what the Catholic Church ACTUALLY teaches instead of believing what every whack job with a keyboard TELLS you it teaches, maybe go to some real primary sources, hey that would be novel.
1,144 posted on 01/13/2012 8:54:54 PM PST by verga (We get what we tolerate and increase that which we reward)
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To: Iscool

Such a brutally fatuous post does not deserve an answer.


1,145 posted on 01/13/2012 8:55:07 PM PST by Jvette
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To: Jvette

Ah, I thought you said she could have said “no”! Did I misread your post?


1,146 posted on 01/13/2012 8:55:07 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing is for an eternity..)
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To: smvoice; All

yes, but then what’s new?

I will have to respond more later as I must get off for the night.

Have a lovely evening all, this has been a fascinating conversation.


1,147 posted on 01/13/2012 8:57:27 PM PST by Jvette
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To: Al Hitan

I thought Jesus was the “Petra” and Peter was the “Petros”.


1,148 posted on 01/13/2012 9:03:42 PM PST by Tramonto (Draft Palin)
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To: Religion Moderator

Thank you for being a Religion Moderator.

But you didn’t explain what I asked and neither does the ‘guidelines.’

But life is like that sometimes. It will be made clear to us on Judgment Day.

I will try to remember that True-Charity means to: ‘Love God above all things & to love your neighbor as yourself.’ (even if he is tossing rocks at you & your Church.)


1,149 posted on 01/13/2012 9:04:30 PM PST by gghd
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To: narses

So why does anyone build a church building?

_______

Well from reading this thread I’ve found that it’s a place where one can bow down and worship idols, participate in the continuing, ongoing sacrifice of Christ, and a whole assortment of man made pagan rituals. Some places may even have some ancient idolatrous artwork you can worship as well. That should tide over your idolatrous zeal until you get home and worship your own idolatrous pictures and statues, if the ride home is too far you can also worship an idolatrous figurine on your dashboard. Pretty much the devil’s playground. /s

The things you learn on the FR religion forum!


1,150 posted on 01/13/2012 9:04:37 PM PST by word_warrior_bob (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs6qZd_xP1w)
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