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Pope says uniting Christianity requires conversion
cna ^ | January 18, 2012 | David Kerr

Posted on 01/18/2012 3:19:15 PM PST by NYer

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To: Alamo-Girl; presently no screen name; Dr. Eckleburg; boatbums; smvoice; CynicalBear; caww
Error come s in from not knowing the Scriptures. It's not complicated.

Matthew 22:29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.

1,301 posted on 02/05/2012 8:47:47 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
Error come s in from not knowing the Scriptures. It's not complicated. Matthew 22:29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.

So very true, dear sister in Christ! Thank you for that beautiful Scripture!

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. - 2 Cor 11:3

And again:

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. – Deuteronomy 4:2

God's Name is I AM.

1,302 posted on 02/05/2012 8:57:52 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Thank you and AMEN!!!
1,303 posted on 02/05/2012 9:35:50 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: metmom; Jvette
AMEN! The POWER of The Word!

Jeremiah 23:29 "Is not My word like fire," declares the LORD, "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?

"For the Word of God is ALIVE and ACTIVE, sharper than any double-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul and spirit, joints and marrow, as it judges the thoughts and purposes of the heart."

1,304 posted on 02/05/2012 9:46:27 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Alamo-Girl
It is spiritual hearing, a gift of God.

Amen!

"The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them" -- Proverbs 20:12

1,305 posted on 02/05/2012 10:06:05 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Well said, dear Alamo-girl! God STILL speaks to us through his word and we hear it with Spirit-tuned ears and heart.


1,306 posted on 02/05/2012 10:36:04 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Good morning AG.

I appreciate your thoughts on this, but I think that since you have not been in on this discussion, you may be misunderstanding the points being made by me.

I do not oppose reading Scripture, obviously I find it to be one of the best things a follower of Christ can do to better know Him and to better follow Him.

The point is that neither Scripture nor Jesus ever says that one MUST read Scripture in order to have faith or as a sign of one’s faith.

Scripture is a great gift, but there are many who cannot read it, yet they have great faith.

Please do not make the mistake of thinking that I do not advocate reading Scripture. Unless you have gone back and read ALL the posts that have led us here, you don’t have the whole picture of the discussion.

And, please do not let others here who love to misconstrue and mischaracterize what I have written lead you to believe that I disdain the reading of Scripture or do not think it is a profound and holy activity.


1,307 posted on 02/06/2012 9:21:03 AM PST by Jvette
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Thank you so much for that beautiful Scripture, dear sister in Christ, and thank you for your encouragements!
1,308 posted on 02/07/2012 8:37:52 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: boatbums
God STILL speaks to us through his word and we hear it with Spirit-tuned ears and heart.

So very true, dear sister in Christ! Thank you for your encouragements!

1,309 posted on 02/07/2012 8:40:17 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Jvette
Thank you so much for sharing your insights and concerns, dear sister in Christ! I'm sorry to take so long to reply - I'm fighting off a head cold and keep wanting to nap. LOLOL!

Please do not make the mistake of thinking that I do not advocate reading Scripture. Unless you have gone back and read ALL the posts that have led us here, you don’t have the whole picture of the discussion.

In scanning the "latest post" I noted the question "Is hearing a synonym for reading?" and had some Scriptures to bring to the table. That's why I posted.

No one has mentioned your views to me nor have I read the discussion leading up to that question.

1,310 posted on 02/07/2012 8:52:16 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

Thank you, AG, hope you are feeling better.

I do so appreciate your always gracious contributions.

I agree that without the Spirit, one can read and/or hear Scripture and not know Jesus the Christ.

I’m sorry if it seemed I was annoyed by your post, I wasn’t.

I just wanted to make my position clear since you obviously had not read all that led up to the question to which you responded.

Always a pleasure:)


1,311 posted on 02/07/2012 11:04:15 PM PST by Jvette
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To: Jvette; Alamo-Girl
I agree that without the Spirit, one can read and/or hear Scripture and not know Jesus the Christ.

It seems to me that the whole point is being missed in this controversy.

It's not which is more important whther it's the reading of hearing. What counts is it being the wrod of God, no matter what the mode of entry into the mind.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Romans 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

It looks like all the emphasis is on the wrong thing, how it gets into the heart and mind, and not on what IS the important thing, WHAT (the Word) is getting into the heart and mind.

Ephesians 5:25-27 25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

1,312 posted on 02/08/2012 6:32:58 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Missing the point?

Maybe you need to go back a reread what led us here.

It was never a question of how one hears the Word.

You asserted that you would question the faith, and therefore the salvation of one who did not read Scripture.

Have you forgotten that?


1,313 posted on 02/08/2012 8:11:33 AM PST by Jvette
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To: Jvette
Thank you so much for your encouragements, dear sister in Christ, and your good wishes for my health! Truly, I look forward to reading your posts.
1,314 posted on 02/08/2012 8:14:54 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: metmom; Jvette; presently no screen name; Dr. Eckleburg; boatbums
It's not which is more important whther it's the reading of hearing. What counts is it being the wrod of God, no matter what the mode of entry into the mind.

So very true, dear sister in Christ! Thank you so much for sharing your insights and thank you for those beautiful Scriptures!

This passage underscores the point for me:

And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land; The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles: Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day. And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot. - Deuteronomy 29:2-5

In modern lingo, I would paraphrase Moses as follows: "Well, duh. You witnessed God's miracles back in Egypt and all these years since. You saw me bring His own words to you written by Him in stone no less. Look at your clothes and shoes, they show no wear after all this time. And you still don't get it. Why? You can't. He never gave you spiritual ears to hear. Without that gift, you can never know Him."

And again,

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. - I Cor 2:6-16

On the issue of physically reading the Scriptures, I would add that a literate Christian ought to take stock of himself should he ever feel satisfied that merely attending a religious service were enough or if he had no desire to read God's words written for him.

Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. - Matthew 5:6

He should be wondering whether this is evidence that he doesn't love God surpassingly above all else, whether the cares of this world have become an obstruction to him.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? - Matthew 16:23-26

God's words are the needful part:

Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her. – Luke 10:38-42

God's Name is I AM.

1,315 posted on 02/08/2012 8:46:30 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Matthew 4:4 But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

Every word that comes from the mouth of God; God-breathed, Holy Spirit inspired Scripture.

If some one comes to Christ through any religion, it's because they heard Scripture through that religion.

People come to God in spite of religion, not because of it, when they hear or read the Wrod of God. That's where the power is.

1,316 posted on 02/08/2012 9:18:23 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Alamo-Girl; metmom

Which again bring us to the crux of the discussion.

There are faithful people who do not regularly read Scripture on their own, for whatever reasons they may have.

I asked if Jesus or the Apostles ever said that one must read Scripture.

I agree that reading Scripture is a valuable endeavor for those who can, but it is not a requirement of faith.

The discussion came about because metmom said that a person of faith must read Scripture or their faith was suspect and therefore, their salvation could be in doubt.

I challenged her to show how that assertion was in line with “faith alone” as reading Scripture is an action or a “work” if you will, and to show where believers are told they must read Scripture.

Now, we hear from her that how one receives the Word of God is not important, which is total reversal of her earlier statement.


1,317 posted on 02/08/2012 9:20:13 AM PST by Jvette
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To: Alamo-Girl
Matthew 4:4 But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

The WORD from the mouth of God; God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired Scripture.

If anyone finds Christ in religion, it's BECAUSE of the Scripture they hear there. It's in spite of the religion not because of it.

1,318 posted on 02/08/2012 9:34:25 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom; Jvette
People come to God in spite of religion, not because of it, when they hear or read the Wrod of God. That's where the power is.

Precisely so, dear sister in Christ!

An ill motive does not diminish the power of His words:

Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. - Phl 1:15-18

Indeed, I find it quite interesting the God has used non-believers to speak His words:

And one of them, [named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. - John 11:49-52

God's Name is I AM.

1,319 posted on 02/08/2012 9:38:04 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Jvette; metmom
I choose to avoid the "she said, she said" part of the discussion. However, I would like to address this remark:

There are faithful people who do not regularly read Scripture on their own, for whatever reasons they may have.

The reasons are the operative part.

The elderly, for instance, may have lost much or all of their vision. But the faithful, Christian elderly will still meditate on His words.

But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. - Psalms 1:2

But a healthy literate Christian should examine himself if he has lost interest in the words of God, i.e. why has this happened?

Does he need a copy of the Bible or a newer translation or bigger print? If so he should ask because surely someone will give him one if he cannot afford to buy his own.

Has his life become dominated by cares of the world? If so he should pray about. If he can find time to groom himself surely he can find time to read God's words. After all, God's words are the "needful part."

God's Name is I AM.

1,320 posted on 02/08/2012 9:53:56 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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