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Who Can Be Saved?: How Can You Know You Are Saved?
Bible | 2012 | BibleTruth

Posted on 01/22/2012 5:15:25 PM PST by bibletruth

God's Word the Bible, declares that a believer already has been saved (using past tense grammar). God's Word declares that a believer already has the possession of heaven with all its blessings!



TOPICS: Apologetics; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS: acceptedinthebeloved; sealedwiththespirit; vanity
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Ask yourself: how can you know once you are saved or will I always be saved?

The Bible has absolute proof regarding eternal salvation and security, if some care to heed the Bible:

Salvation Proves Eternal Security - Definition

Shall we depend on our works for salvation, if so, then we might lose our salvation! Why is this type of statements believed by so many?

God's Word the Bible, moreover, declares that salvation is the work of God:

Jonah 2:9: salvation is of the Lord.

God teaches us that salvation originated by God the Father, wrought through Christ Jesus the Son of God, implemented by God the Holy Spirit - this work is all the work of the Godhead, not men. When God uses the word "salvation" in His Bible, it communicates a truth regarding the terms: saving, rescuing, deliverance, preservation from the bondage of sin, the bondage of the Law, deliverance from the policy of evil by Satan, deliverance form the consequences of sin which are to be levied in hell. The word "salvation" communicates to us a permanent restoration unto God, thus making the believer to be a partaker of the infinite riches of God's grace.

The Apostle Paul gives a clear description of how a sinner is saved by saying that salvation is Ephesians 2:8: by grace through faith. The Apostle Paul says salvation is not "by works of the Law" "For by grace are ye saved through faith". If Paul had reversed this statement, then it would read, "faith through grace", but this would place the emphasis upon man's faith rather than God work to save us - it is by grace which places the emphasis upon God to perform the work, and not on man to perform the work.

Galatians 2:16: Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,

Benefits of Salvation Prove Eternal Security

If a fully assured salvation was not a present possession that we have, then it would be possible that we might lose it. But God's Word the Bible declares that a believer already has been saved (using past tense grammar). God's Word also declares that a believer already has the possession of heaven with all its blessings!

In God's Word the Bible declares that a believer already has been saved from the curse of the Law (Galatians 3:13), from wrath (I Th. 5:9), from death (see II Corinthians 1:10), and from destruction (II Thessalonians 1:9). A sinner who trusts in Christ becomes: a son of God (Romans 8:14-15), a child of God (John 1:12-13), regenerated from sin (Titus 3:5), a new creature (II Corinthians 5:17), a heavenly citizen (Philippians 3:20), an heir to God's grace and inheritance (Romans 5:2; Ephesians 1:18), and is declared complete in Christ (Colossians 2:9-10).

These truths are made possible because these efforts are by the declaration and council and will by THE immutable Holy God, which God declared that any sinner who ultimately has faith in Christ Jesus is then immediately "declared righteous" BY GOD (Romans 3:21-26), declared to be "justified" BY GOD (Romans 3:24), declared "sanctified" BY GOD (I Corinthians 6:11), declared BY GOD to be perfected forever (Hebrews 10:14), and delivered BY GOD from the powers of darkness (Acts 26:18), and placed on the solid Rock which is Christ (I Corinthians 3:9-15). If we trust God that He is of God, then we must trust His Word's regarding the things that God has declared (Romans 3:21-26, I Corinthians 6:11, Hebrews 10:14, Acts 26:18, I Corinthians 3:9-15).

In the future eternal state all believers shall be: raised from the dead - For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (I Thessalonians 4:16), changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (I Corinthians 15:52), we shall be like Him - Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is (I John 3:2), be with Him - Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17).

The Grace of Salvation Proves Eternal Security

If our salvation did not depend solely upon the grace of God, we might lose it.

In God's Word the Bible declares that eternal life is dependent totally upon God the Life-giver. To promote eternal security as a work which is dependent on man to perform works for salvation is the same thing as to place dishonor to God the Life-giver. It is impossible for man to make himself his own preserver of his own eternal life - to overcome the death penalty of sin.

If a man could work to make himself his own preserver of eternal life and salvation in order to overcome the death penalty of sin, then that man's works would play a major part in man's salvation - this would therefore nullify the grace of God (Romans 4:4). Scripture clearly teaches that the reward of good works is debt to God:

Romans 4:4: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of DEBT.

DEBT is the reward one must pay to God if one depends on good works for affecting the means of one's salvation. This Scripture does not talk about bad works! Rather, it is talking about good works that a man can utilize to contribute as to make his salvation more secure. But does God use man's good worlds to save a man? THe reverse is the fact that we find in the Bible.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them

For his workmanship are we, created in connection with Christ Jesus for good works. This is what we are. This is what must think of ourselves in regard to good works. Our own effort of good works are nothing but the product of what God himself has made us to be when He created our spiritual life by His grace. The grammar emphasis is on the "we are his" workmanship, not on our workmanship of good works. Therefore, we see clearly that God's Word says that believers are not saved by works, but by grace through faith in which follows good works as the by product of God himself creating for us to perform.

In Ephesians 2:10, the emphasis is on the phrase: "unto good works" plus the relative clause: "which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them". So completely is this idea that our salvation is due to the works are due only as the result of God's saving work in us. These "good works" are such as God adjudges as good and not the world judges as superficial. They are all of the thoughts, reckoning, words, doctrines and deeds in which the righteousness and holiness of the new life In Christ have manifested themselves in us who are saved. They all spring forth from faith and doctrine, and are all done unto Christ. Such works are an utter impossibility before our salvation; only the new creature in Christ Jesus is able to bring them forth to fruit. This, too, is god's purpose that every one of us who lives in Christ should manifest the fruits of such a life. John 15:8: Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit;

God's Word explicitly teaches that saving faith will be followed by good works AFTER the guarantee of our salvation, NOT as the instrument TO ACHIEVE salvation! It is GOD that causes you to perform His good works AFTER salvation:

Philippians 2:13: For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

It is God that causes these good works for you to perform, it is not the possession of man's will or man's pleasure to do them. The book of James does NOT trump the grace of God preached in the Pauline epistles. God's Word explicitly teaches "For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works" (Ephesians 2:10).

Paul, writing to the carnal Corinthians said that it is "our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful..." (I Corinthians 1:8-9). The psalmist wrote, "For the Lord will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance" (Psalams 94:14; cp. Hebrews 13:5).

"In Christ" Possession Proves Eternal Security

If Grace salvation does not unite us to Christ, then some say we might lost our salvation.

Every believer is inseparably united by God the Holy Spirit into Christ's body (Romans 6; I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 5:23-32). "For we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones" (Ephesians 5:30). Being "in Christ" is an extremely strong support for eternal perseverance. "Your life is hid with Christ in God" (Colossians 3:3). The phrase "in Christ" is found 12 times in the book of Ephesians alone! If God declares that the believer is placed "in Christ", then God will be our guarantee that we can never amputated from that position of In Christ, which is His will for us.

Romans 8:31: What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Romans 8:33: Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Romans 8:34: Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

There are so many Scriptures here that support perfect assurance of eternal security for salvation In Christ…. If anyone uses Scriptures that counters these Scriptures, then that person is effectively saying that God is a liar in Scriptures like Romans 3:21-26, I Corinthians 6:11, Hebrews 10:14, Acts 26:18, I Corinthians 3:9-15! Moreover since we can trust God fully for His declarations and councils of righteousness, sanctification, perfection, then we can then believe and know with absolute certainty that we are of God (I John 5:19), and we have passed from death unto life (I John 3:14), and that we are "in Christ" and "in Him" (Romans 8:1, 125, I John 2:5), and that we as faithful trust that we do possess eternal life (I John 5:11).

1 posted on 01/22/2012 5:15:31 PM PST by bibletruth
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To: bibletruth

Why can’t you just have faith that you have been saved? Who needs proof?


2 posted on 01/22/2012 5:31:51 PM PST by Misterioso
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To: bibletruth

You use His name, but does He know you?

Proof is not in the Bible,(although it is correct) proof is in the experience.


3 posted on 01/22/2012 5:31:51 PM PST by tired&retired
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To: bibletruth; Former Fetus; Bockscar; Graybeard58; JLLH; Outlaw Woman; StarCMC; AZ .44 MAG; ...

Ping


4 posted on 01/22/2012 5:47:25 PM PST by WKB (Anything Obama: "What a revoltin' development this is")
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To: bibletruth

My salvation is assured because I have faith. I believed, repented and I asked for salvation. That is all that is required.


5 posted on 01/22/2012 5:48:39 PM PST by dbeall
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To: tired&retired
Proof is not in the Bible, proof is in the experience

OK, I have a question for you. No disrespect intended, just two simple questions:

Do you consider the proof of experience to be equal with the proof that is in the Bible?

Or do you consider the proof of experience to be greater than proof that is in the Bible?

6 posted on 01/22/2012 6:05:26 PM PST by bibletruth
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To: dbeall

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and IS BAPTIZED shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
In other words if you believe you will be baptized for the remission of your sins. For some unknown reason people overlook this fact.


7 posted on 01/22/2012 6:09:09 PM PST by trustandobey
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To: bibletruth
"How Can You Know You Are Saved?"

Reckon I'll know it when I get there.

8 posted on 01/22/2012 6:17:40 PM PST by NakedRampage (Puttin' the "stud" in Bible study)
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To: trustandobey
When was the thief on the cross baptized?

Believer's baptism is symbolic of the death, burial and resurrection, but only faith is needed for salvation.

9 posted on 01/22/2012 6:45:20 PM PST by Coldwater Creek (He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty Psalm 91:)
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To: tired&retired

Proof can never be in the experience...there is no way to measure the accuracy of an experience...experience can never be the justification for a belief.


10 posted on 01/22/2012 6:47:30 PM PST by LiteKeeper ("Who is John Galt?")
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To: bibletruth
How Can You Know You Are Saved?

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life ,and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:13)

11 posted on 01/22/2012 6:49:13 PM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: NakedRampage
Reckon I'll know it when I get there???

No, that is incorrect reckoning.... Because God makes it abundantly clear that believers' TODAY at present time KNOW and have complete assurance regarding our final destination: For in God's Word the Bible HE declares that a believer already has been saved from the curse of the Law (Galatians 3:13), from wrath (I Th. 5:9), from death (see II Corinthians 1:10), and from destruction (II Thessalonians 1:9). A sinner who trusts in Christ becomes: a son of God (Romans 8:14-15), a child of God (John 1:12-13), regenerated from sin (Titus 3:5), a new creature (II Corinthians 5:17), a heavenly citizen (Philippians 3:20), an heir to God's grace and inheritance (Romans 5:2; Ephesians 1:18), and is declared complete in Christ (Colossians 2:9-10).

What Scripture did you not understand from Galatians 3:13, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, II Thessalonians 1:9, II Corinthians 1:10, Romans 8:14-15), John 1:12-13, Titus 3:5, II Corinthians 5:17, Philippians 3:20, Romans 5:2; Ephesians 1:18, Colossians 2:9-10?

For all of these Scriptures declare our present tense position and status In Christ. I have all these blessings which God has given to me NOW. I know my eternal salvation and security is absolutely assured today even before I die in my physical body. Below are some of the blessing I possess right now! Since I have these now, it is impossible for me to lose my salvation, for my life is in the hands of God and Christ and the Holy Spirit.


12 posted on 01/22/2012 6:52:23 PM PST by bibletruth
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To: Coldwater Creek
When was the thief on the cross baptized?

It is called the "Baptism of desire.

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/currenterrors/bapdesire.htm

13 posted on 01/22/2012 6:53:24 PM PST by verga (We get what we tolerate and increase that which we reward)
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To: bibletruth; Misterioso; tired&retired; dbeall; trustandobey; NakedRampage; Coldwater Creek; ...

If God exists = True

and

If Christ = God’s Son

and

If Christ’s Death on Cross = Payment for the sins of the world

Then

IT MATTERS!

If IT MATTERS

and

If One’s behavior suggests that IT MATTERS = True

Then

Salvation = True

Else

Salvation = False


14 posted on 01/22/2012 7:00:17 PM PST by killermosquito (Buffalo, Detroit (and eventually France) is what you get when liberalism runs its course.)
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To: bibletruth

But what about Matthew 24:13, Romans 11:22, Hebrews 10:26-29 and especially Peter 2:20–21?


15 posted on 01/22/2012 7:31:55 PM PST by NakedRampage (Puttin' the "stud" in Bible study)
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To: bibletruth; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
Ask yourself: how can you know once you are saved or will I always be saved?

Jesus said so. Jesus promises us that security.

John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 6:37-40 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 10:7-9 7 So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

John 10:27-29 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

16 posted on 01/22/2012 7:46:35 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: trustandobey
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and IS BAPTIZED shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. In other words if you believe you will be baptized for the remission of your sins. For some unknown reason people overlook this fact.

There is much controversy as to whether that passage of Mark is actually part of the original text. It actually appears that it's not, however there are still some questions that arise from that.

Mark 16:14-18 14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

A few observations about that passage. First off, in verse 16 in particular, it says whoever believes and is baptized is saved but whoever does not believe is condemned. It doesn't say whoever isn't baptized is condemned, only those who don't believe. That implies that it is the believing that is the critical action, not the baptism.

The other is that on both the Catholic and non-Catholic sides of the debate, both sides tend to ignore the rest of the verse in that same passage.

For Pentecostals in particular, they like to quote verse 17-18 and kind of ignore verse 16 about being baptized. They believe in salvation by faith alone, so they ignore the first part. But they sure focus on the gifts and healing and showy parts.

Catholics on the other hand, who teach that baptism is required for salvation but gives no assurance of said salvation, love to quote verse 16 and ignore the two following it, to the point of mocking and deriding those who DO take it as true.

Now, for both sides, it is hypocritical to cherry pick Scripture. Either all three verses are true, must be true, or they're not. It is the height of inconsistency in Scripture interpretation to change the method of interpretation in the middle of a discourse.

My main problems with the passage, is that for one, Jesus doesn't deal with His disciples in that manner ANYWHERE else in Scripture.

Upbraiding or rebuking them for hardness of heart and unbelief? After gently restoring Peter who denied Him three times? And appearing to Thomas who was doubting and offering to let him put his hands into Jesus' wounds to prove to Thomas that He was real and it was Him? This passage just doesn't fit.

And since it's contested as to its validity, do you really want to try to build a doctrine on something of that questionable authenticity? That seems kind of unwise to me.

17 posted on 01/22/2012 8:06:33 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: NakedRampage
Reckon I'll know it when I get there.

You can know now. God promised that.

18 posted on 01/22/2012 8:08:01 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: trustandobey

Baptism is not the effectual act that removes sin. Baptism is as a result of being saved.

Jesus said you must be “born again”. This is the spiritual regeneration that happens when you accept Christ’s free gift of salvation. Of course a true believer will want to do what his Lord desires after acknowledging His Lordship.

For example, why would a person who does not believe be baptized? Maybe social pressure, family expecting it, etc. In that case, they view it as a nothing. For those who believe that the Baptism is the regenerative aspect (or remission of sin) then would the unbeliever who undergoes baptism be forgiven?

You handle is TrustAndObey. Trust comes first. Obey is second. Obeying is getting baptized. Trust is accepting Jesus.


19 posted on 01/22/2012 8:11:29 PM PST by BereanBrain
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: fabian; bibletruth
1 Corinthians 1:18-25 18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”

20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Human understanding will NEVER get you to God.

21 posted on 01/22/2012 8:19:41 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Coldwater Creek; trustandobey
Believer's baptism is symbolic of the death, burial and resurrection, but only faith is needed for salvation.

Exactly. Baptism does NOT wash away your sins.

22 posted on 01/22/2012 8:29:12 PM PST by 2nd amendment mama ( www.2asisters.org | Self defense is a basic human right!)
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To: fabian; bibletruth; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
That site is NOT Christian.

It is spiritism and mysticism and will lead you astray. It's the power of positive thinking, find the inner strength within you nonsense. It is NOT Scriptural. It's deception.

Demons can provide plenty of experience but it doesn't mean it's a real salvation....

This is what Scripture says is necessary for salvation.

Romans 10:5-13 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

23 posted on 01/22/2012 8:30:19 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: trustandobey
>>In other words if you believe you will be baptized for the remission of your sins.<<

If a man is wanted for murder did he already commit the murder or is he wanted so he will commit the murder?

24 posted on 01/22/2012 8:41:51 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: NakedRampage
Matthew 24:13: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

This is the classic verse always quoted by Catholics to evidently show that any one today can lose their salvation... In light of the Scriptures which I quoted from GOD's Word about absolute assurance of eternal security and salvation; to quote this Matthew 24 verse is out of context in regards to today Grace of God Salvation, for this verse in chapter 24 pertains to the context of a former verse and following, namely: 24:3 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

This section of Scripture is talking about the Second Coming of Christ to the Earth to render Judgement to the Nations; this is well known fact from the OT; for it is even called "Jacob's Troubles". Christ is explaining about His return and the behavior of the end times. If you heed the words of the Great Prophet Jesus Christ, and know the OT Scriptures regarding His Second Coming in Jacob's Trouble and Judgment against the Nations which were enemies of Israel; then the following Matthew 24 verses will make sense:

Matthew 24:6: And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Matthew 24:7: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Matthew 24:8: All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Starting with Matthew 24:8 and following, this is the test for Jewish Israel when they enter into the beginning of sorrows of Jacob's Trouble. During this time of sorrows, they will be delivered up, killed, hated by nations, offended, betrayed, tempted by false prophets, deceived by false prophets, iniquity shall abound, but he that shall endure unto the end (of that future age), the same shall be saved:

Matthew 24:9: Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Matthew 24:10: And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Matthew 24:11: And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:12: And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Matthew 24:13: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

This is also well known as thee Day of the Lord which is a time of judgment in which God will judge Israel for its unbelief (Jeremiah 30.7) and the nations of the world for their rejection of Christ. The day will end with the return of the Lord (Matthew 24.30; Revelation 19.11-19). He warned his listeners to be prepared for this day (Matthew 24.42-51).

The earliest reference to this day is in Psalm 2. An understanding of this Psalm 2 is critical to a correct understanding of Jewish eschatology outlines in Matthew 24. For it succinctly outlines the whole prophetic program for Israel (1st Coming of Christ, and 2nd Coming of Christ) and the establishment of the Messianic Kingdom on earth with Christ ruling with an Iron Rod.

The Body of Christ is not in view in Matthew 24; it is removed and will be inside the heavenly places. The Antichrist will be revealed. God will destroy him in Revelation 19.20 at his coming in Revelation 19.11-19. The Antichrist will exercise Satanic powers which perform miracles which will deceive most of humanity.

Matthew 24:13: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.... Is for a future generation - not us today. Sorry, your Matthew 24 quote misses the mark completely regarding losing salvation for today's Grace of God.

25 posted on 01/22/2012 8:41:56 PM PST by bibletruth
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To: metmom

I didn’t get to see what site they were linking to or whatever...but you can bet that mystical/spritualism is fast growing....especially among the youth. Many bookstores now load their shelves with the stuff. where these types of books were once off in the corner with witchcraft and the likes of.

The internet now is their way of targeting the uninformed, baiting and switching the masses....and it’s working. They make a huge deal out of being “truth seekers’ when in fact they are far from that....many end up in the Eastern cults and or Hindu based religions....they think they can play on the boundaries of evil and not be pulled in....they vastly underestimate the wiles of the enemy and his power to entice and entrap.


26 posted on 01/22/2012 8:42:27 PM PST by caww
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To: metmom

I didn’t get to see what site they were linking to or whatever...but you can bet that mystical/spritualism is fast growing....especially among the youth. Many bookstores now load their shelves with the stuff. where these types of books were once off in the corner with witchcraft and the likes of.

The internet now is their way of targeting the uninformed, baiting and switching the masses....and it’s working. They make a huge deal out of being “truth seekers’ when in fact they are far from that....many end up in the Eastern cults and or Hindu based religions....they think they can play on the boundaries of evil and not be pulled in....they vastly underestimate the wiles of the enemy and his power to entice and entrap.


27 posted on 01/22/2012 8:43:07 PM PST by caww
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To: NakedRampage

will be too late if your wrong... when you can actually know now.


28 posted on 01/22/2012 8:45:20 PM PST by caww
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To: metmom

Mark for the morning


29 posted on 01/22/2012 8:47:33 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Coldwater Creek

Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood.


30 posted on 01/22/2012 8:52:07 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: verga

The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]


31 posted on 01/22/2012 8:52:43 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: verga
Catholic Biblical Apologetics:Being Catholic & Christian:Faith and Salvation-Authoriative
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Salvation: A Biblical Portrait
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Salvation: "Being Saved"
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Catholic Response to "Are You Saved?"
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Knowledge of Salvation
The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

32 posted on 01/22/2012 8:53:15 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: metmom

” be still and know that I am God”...is all it is. Silent prayer. Sorry, but you do not have a clue.


33 posted on 01/22/2012 8:55:01 PM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")
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To: Salvation

That should have just been a Baptism of Desire.

A martyr that dies for Christ — has a Baptism of Blood.


34 posted on 01/22/2012 8:55:07 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: bibletruth

**The Bible has absolute proof regarding eternal salvation and security, if some care to heed the Bible:**

OK, started heeding! look at the initial conversions of the Ephesians in Acts:

19:1 we read that Paul came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples that apparently had a belief in Jesus Christ (possibly from the testimony of Apollos. 18:28).

vs 2. He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

vs 3. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptised? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.

vs 4. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

vs 5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

vs 6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

vs 7. And all the men were about twelve.

FACT: All the epistles were written to people that were already born again. Those letters are to be read and understood in THAT context.

“Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints....” Romans 1:6,7

Paul reminded the saints in Rome about their conversion: “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life”. Romans 6:3,4


35 posted on 01/22/2012 9:11:15 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: trustandobey

**Mark 16:16 He that believeth and IS BAPTIZED shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.**

There you go...........telling people the truth!

(check out post 35)


36 posted on 01/22/2012 9:14:39 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: bibletruth; word_warrior_bob; risen_feenix; EnglishCon; Bill W was a conservative; verga; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


37 posted on 01/22/2012 9:15:20 PM PST by narses
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To: narses
The truth keeps showing up, doesn't it?

The Question of Universal Salvation: Will All Be Saved?
"There Can Be No Rupture in Salvation History" [Benedict XVI to Jewish Community in Germany]
The Catholic Teaching on Salvation by Faith Alone (Catholic / Orthodox Caucus)
Promising Salvation to Non-Catholics: A Sin against Charity
On Being Sober and Serious in Seeking Salvation
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] Benedict XVI at Angelus: Mary's mission of salvation and intercession continues..
Finders Keepers? - The Evangelical notion that Christians can't lose their salvation is unbiblical.
Fresh Embrace of Everlasting Salvation [New Mass Translation Does Away With "Barbecue Talk"]

Marriage is instrument of salvation for society, declares Benedict XVI
Catholic and Protestant "Similarities" on Faith, Faith Alone, Salvation...
Radio Replies Second Volume - Salvation of the Soul
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Salvation: A Biblical Portrait
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Salvation: "Being Saved"
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Catholic Response to "Are You Saved?"
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Knowledge of Salvation
A note from Roy Schoeman... (author of 'Salvation is from the Jews')
Radio Replies First Volume - Grace and salvation
Radio Replies First Volume - "Outside the Church no salvation"

Salvation - Are You Saved?
No Salvation Outside the Church
Prayer the Great Means of Salvation: Ch.1: The Necessity of Prayer, Sect. 3 Invocation of the Saints
Prayer the Great Means of Salvation: Chapter 1: The Necessity of Prayer, Section 2
Prayer: The Great Means of Salvation and of Perfection Ch. 1: The Necessity of Prayer, Section 1
What does the Catholic Church mean by the phrase, "Outside the Church there is no salvation"
Christian, I Presume? (Salvation) [Ecumenical]
Rock Solid: The Salvation History of the Catholic Church [Ecumenical]
Who Can Be Saved?
Grace, Faith, and Works

Getting in Touch With Reality (good character and behavior as a ticket to Heaven)
My Personal Savior
The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Extra ecclesiam - Outside the Church there is no salvation.M.a
Is Faith Necessary for Salvation? (Part 2)
Good Will Equals Salvation? (Did the pope say non christians could be saved - part 1)
The Experience of the Salvation of Christ Today
Nonbelievers Too Can Be Saved, Says Pope
Worthy Is the Lamb?
Limbo and the Hope of Salvation

38 posted on 01/22/2012 9:20:55 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; Coldwater Creek
Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood.

Where's that found in the Bible.

How you managing CC? The tornadoes over yet?

You OK?

39 posted on 01/22/2012 10:18:55 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: killermosquito

Too many ifs. Again, what’s wrong with simple faith that you have been saved? Is faith enough? Yes or no question.


40 posted on 01/23/2012 2:34:05 AM PST by Misterioso
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To: metmom; Salvation
Where's that found in the Bible.

It is right there between the Trinity and your man made idea of Sola Scriptura.

Seriously read the link I provided that will give you the basis for that. http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/currenterrors/bapdesire.htm

You will see it described in Luke 23:39-43

Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors that were hanged railed on him, saying, Art not thou the Christ? save thyself and us. Luk 23:40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, Dost thou not even fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. Luk 23:42 And he said, Jesus, remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom. Luk 23:43 And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise.

Also just a suggestion here; Your knee jerk reaction of: "where is that in the Bible?" is wearing a bit thin. Try looking at the links that Salvation and others and I have posted and you might actually learn something about the Church you are attacking.

41 posted on 01/23/2012 2:45:42 AM PST by verga (Only the ignorant disdain intelligence.)
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To: bibletruth
God's Word the Bible, declares that a believer already has been saved (using past tense grammar).

It describes us as "the ones who are being saved" (plural present passive participle) :
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (18ο λογος γαρ ο του σταυρου τοις μεν απολλυμενοις μωρια εστιν τοις δε σωζομενοις ημιν δυναμις θεου εστιν)
--I Corinthians 1:18

"For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing." (15οτι χριστου ευωδια εσμεν τω θεω εν τοις σωζομενοις και εν τοις απολλυμενοις)
II Corinthians 2:15
It's a process that's initiated in this life. It's finalized upon his return when you stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Nothing will keep you from being there, unless you turn away and are lost.
42 posted on 01/23/2012 3:13:46 AM PST by aruanan
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To: metmom; trustandobey
Let's repeat a basic Bible lesson, metmom:

  1. What does Jesus say saves us?
    • Matt. 24:13
      13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    • Matt 25:31-46 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
      35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
      36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    Jesus says that if you endure to the end you get salvation, that if you helped your fellow man you inherit the kingdom of God (you get salvation) --> note these are HIS own words

  2. 1 Pet. 3:20-21: " It (Baptism )saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

  3. Note -- also in Acts 16:31 we are told to believe and you will be saved -- so Faith is definitely one of the things needed, yet as you see above, it is not ONLY faith. Remember -- James says "even the demons believe - and shudder" -- it is not faith ALONE that saves


Salvation is by GRACE alone
43 posted on 01/23/2012 4:34:36 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: metmom; trustandobey
Our Lord tied the forgiveness of sins to faith and Baptism: "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved."
Mk 16:15-16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Baptism is the first and chief sacrament of forgiveness of sins because it unites us with Christ, who died for our sins and rose for our justification, so that "we too might walk in newness of life."
Rom 6:4
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
; Rom 4:25
25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua), and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."

to baptize (Greek baptizein) means to "plunge" or "immerse"; the "plunge" into the water symbolizes the catechumen's burial into Christ's death, from which he rises up by resurrection with him, as "a new creature."

1215 This sacrament is also called "the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit," for it signifies and actually brings about the birth of water and the Spirit without which no one "can enter the kingdom of God."
Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
John 3:5
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1216"This bath is called enlightenment, because those who receive this [catechetical] instruction are enlightened in their understanding . . . ." Having received in Baptism the Word, "the true light that enlightens every man," the person baptized has been "enlightened," he becomes a "son of light," indeed, he becomes "light" himself:
Jn 1:9

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
1 Thess 5:5
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Heb 10:32
32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
Eph 5:8
8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

44 posted on 01/23/2012 4:40:55 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: metmom; trustandobey
Paul did preach that baptism is for remission of sins, and here is what Paul said Acts 2:38,
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 22:16;
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.
Rom. 6:1–4;
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
1 Cor 6:11,
11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God
1 Cor 12:13;
13 For we were all baptized by[a] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
Gal. 3:26–27;
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ
Eph. 5:26;
to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word,
Col. 2:11–12;
11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[a] was put off when you were circumcised by[b] Christ,
12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Titus 3:5;
5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

One cannot even say this was a symbol -- look at all of the examples above, look at the language, consistently same the same in each, that in baptism we are saved and buried with Christ, washed of our sins by this and born again

Remember, the words of Jesus Christ Himself in Matthew 28:19

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

45 posted on 01/23/2012 4:42:23 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: verga; metmom
Actually they take it further to sola sola -- they worship what they see in the mirror. To them, their own philosophy and made-up 20th century interpretation is more important and they believe they know more than the companions of Christ.

Furthermore, they don't know scripture despite their colorful invectives.

46 posted on 01/23/2012 4:46:21 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: Coldwater Creek; trustandobey; Salvation
The New covenant was sealed with a sacrifice, THE sacrifice, the one-time sacrifice of Jesus Christ (which we participate in in the Eucharist).

The thief was saved as per the old Covenant.

47 posted on 01/23/2012 4:48:27 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: Coldwater Creek; trustandobey; Salvation
CC: only faith is needed for salvation.

i'm sorry, that is incorrect and puts a limitation on Christ's own words:this is what Jesus said


48 posted on 01/23/2012 4:50:02 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: metmom; trustandobey; aruanan
metmom: There is much controversy as to whether that passage of Mark is actually part of the original text. It actually appears that it's not, however there are still some questions that arise from that.

Really? does your post hence say that the Bible is not inerrant? wow...

49 posted on 01/23/2012 5:36:09 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: metmom; trustandobey; aruanan; Salvation
metmom: Catholics on the other hand, who teach that baptism is required for salvation

Catholics, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrians. Oh and Luthrans hold that baptism is a sacrament too -- a "means of grace" as the washing of regeneration. From Luther'sSmaller Catechism, that baptism "works forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare."

50 posted on 01/23/2012 5:39:51 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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