Posted on 02/01/2012 4:50:21 AM PST by Colofornian
...A religious studies class late last year at Utah State University...was unusual for two reasons. The small group of students, faculty and faithful there to hear Mormon Elder Marlin Jensen were openly troubled about the future...asking hard questions. And Jensen was uncharacteristically frank...
Did the leaders...know that members are "leaving in droves?" a woman asked.
"We are aware," said Jensen, according to a tape recording of his unscripted remarks. "And I'm speaking of the 15 men that are above me in the hierarchy of the church."...
"My own daughter," he then added, "has come to me and said, 'Dad, why didn't you ever tell me that Joseph Smith was a polygamist?'..."Everything's out there for them to consume if they want to Google it."...
SNIP
...census data from some foreign countries...show that the retention rate for their converts is as low as 25 percent. In the U.S., only about half of Mormons are active members of the church...
SNIP
...the Web has intensified debate over...the history the church teaches.
Not since...the 1837 failure of a church bank in Kirtland, Ohio, have so many left the church, Jensen said.
"Maybe since Kirtland, we've never had a period of - I'll call it apostasy, like we're having now," he told the group in Logan.
SNIP
...a non-practicing Mormon...for years filed away on a mental "shelf" concerns about the historical veracity of the religion's central text..."It came to a point where the shelf was too heavy," he said. He quit attending ..."Ok, I'm done."
SNIP
"There have been discussions at LDS church headquarters about...Romney's presidential bid," a person briefed on the talks said. "One concern is that Romney's campaign could further energize evangelical antipathy toward the church..."
..."having a Mormon president could raise the church's profile and legitimize it in other countries."
(Excerpt) Read more at uk.reuters.com ...
That's the question it looks like we are all going to have to answer, doesn't it? America died in the 60s, and so far there has been no resurrection of the corpse. But we keep trying.
Fawn Brodie.
Do a get a copy of the Book of Mormon as my prize?
—On the other hand the internet seems to have had little influence in taking down Obama despite all the con man evidence that would have killed the candidacy of any other human being.—
We underestimated him during the election. Also, people have to want to bother to do the search. A small number of mormons will look at the data and turn from mormonism. A huge number of people “looking into becoming mormon” will stop dead in their tracks. This includes the children of mormons.
This can be used against Christianity and the bible as well, but with much less effect because the evidence for it’s veracity is so overwhelming. With mormonism, it is something the church would just as soon people don’t look at too closely.
Likewise with Obama. The internet has hurt him a great deal. Think where we would be if we had the same press we had in the 20th century. Problem is, people don’t dig as much into politics. Those that do are on sites like this.
I was a young Mormon girl and she introduced me to the lies of Mormonism too!
Thank God.
Just like the Shiite branch of Islam considers the Ayotallohas as living prophets. Sorry but no need for prophets after God himself became incarnate.
I must of missed those article on finding horse remains dating from the period of 600 BC to 1491 AD. Or I must when I went to the Mayan cities of Copan and Tikal those horse glyphs. I noticed the Jaguars, rabbits, etc but I must of missed the horses.
No Christian denomination I know of accepts Mormon baptism for the reason the Mormons do not accept the Trinity as stated in the Nicene Creed.
Cureloms!!!
But I want to know...
What happened to the knowledge of the Wheel?
The origin of the wheel is unknown, but once it was invented, knowledge of the wheel spread rapidly throughout the Mediterranean and Asian world. Wheeled vehicles made the movement of goods much easier. The earliest known examples of wheels are from Mesopotamia and date from about 3500 to 3000 bc. The cart or wagon, pulled by humans or animals, was the first wheeled vehicle.
Lehi and his party obviously had knowledge of the wheel. The Book of Mormon uses the term chariot many times (and in many different time periods) which shows that the BOM peoples used the concept of the wheel. Some example of this are:
2 Ne. 12: 7
7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots.
Alma 18: 9
9 And they said unto him: Behold, he is feeding thy horses. Now the king had commanded his servants, previous to the time of the watering of their flocks, that they should prepare his horses and chariots, and conduct him forth to the land of Nephi; for there had been a great feast appointed at the land of Nephi, by the father of Lamoni, who was king over all the land.
Alma 18: 10
10 Now when king Lamoni heard that Ammon was preparing his horses and his chariots he was more astonished, because of the faithfulness of Ammon, saying: Surely there has not been any servant among all my servants that has been so faithful as this man; for even he doth remember all my commandments to execute them.
Alma 18: 12
12 And it came to pass that when Ammon had made ready the horses and the chariots for the king and his servants, he went in unto the king, and he saw that the countenance of the king was changed; therefore he was about to return out of his presence.
Alma 20: 6
6 Now when Lamoni had heard this he caused that his servants should make ready his horses and his chariots.
3 Ne. 3: 22
22 And it came to pass in the seventeenth year, in the latter end of the year, the proclamation of Lachoneus had gone forth throughout all the face of the land, and they had taken their horses, and their chariots, and their cattle, and all their flocks, and their herds, and their grain, and all their substance, and did march forth by thousands and by tens of thousands, until they had all gone forth to the place which had been appointed that they should gather themselves together, to defend themselves against their enemies.
3 Ne. 21: 14
14 Yea, wo be unto the Gentiles except they repent; for it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Father, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots;
So what happened to the wheel?
Archaeology says that wheels were not used for travel in Pre-Columbian America. The knowledge of the wheel for transportation may have been in existence but seems to be limited to the use in toys. If the Nephites and Lamanites used chariots, why wouldn’t this extremely valuable idea continue to be used by the descendants of the Ancient Americans?
If Lehi’s descendants did use a wheel, there would be evidence of wheels in the Americas before Columbus. Technology spreads quickly, especially an innovative one like the wheel.
Even the use of wheels in toys is suspect. Some LDS apologists have pointed to the discovery of wheeled toys left in tombs. However, several researchers, including W. H. Holmes of the Bureau of American Ethnology suspect that the toys were introduced into the tombs after the arrival of Europeans on the continent. He stated:
“Charnay obtained from an ancient cemetery at Tenenepanco, Mexico, a number of toy chariots of terra cotta, presumably buried with the body of a child, some of which retained their wheels. The possibility that these toys are of a post-discovery manufacture must be taken into account, especially since mention is made of the discovery of brass bells in the same cemetery with the toys.” (emphasis in original). Reference: wikipedia (on May 14, 2010)
http://mormonthink.com/book-of-mormon-problems.htm
I heard this report on “Heart of the Matter” last night. V
ery, very interesting.
I don't care what happens to Romney, I will not vote for him.
Another article from their own mouths that puts a wrench into the 14 Million number the LDS (like Sandy) throw around.
I have a lot of friends in Utah and they have all be saying that their churches are growing and much of that growth are ex-Mormons.
They are seeing the light. Back when I left it was much much harder to find out the truth about Mormonism. I spent almost a year researching.
Now, it is all online.
See my post above about the growth of Christian churches in Utah.
There will always be a few hold outs, especially those men who don't want to become less than a god-in-waiting.
One thing that might happen is that with the LDS shrinking, the FLDS might hit a boom with new converts who want to go back to what Joseph Smith had originally envisioned with polygamy.
Ditto!
Yes, and although 'antichrist' is used here as somewhat of a figure of speech -- this is the deserved situation that God has given us -- as an aborting, porno, homo-marriage nation.
Unfortunately, for Romney to win the votes of Christians what will first happen, is that conservative writers, radio hosts, columnists, social conservative leaders, all of our talking heads, thinkers, and millions of rank and file conservatives and Christians will be drawn into the largest collection of, the most diverse collection of, the most creative collection of Mormon apologists, in history.
Mormonism will be daily rationalized, ways to smooth over Christian concerns will be thought of and delivered on the air waves, just as Hugh Hewitt and Michael Medved already do. Limbaugh and others will fall into a daily routine of countering and defeating Christian protests against Mormonism. New creative thoughts and reasoning will come from National Review, and Fox
The right will be sucked into becoming the foot soldiers of mainstreaming and rationalizing Mormonism.
I was listening to their so called “Prophet/Priests” and no wonder the membership gives the volumes of money they do to the leadership. They preach to them about living a frugal life while they themselves wallow in wealth....as they “invest” the members monies into various land, corporations, hotels, etc. et.c and the list is endless.
Mormonism is all about revene collecting ...recruiting on a constant to keep the revenues flowing...all the while wearing a counterfeit mask of Christianity that simply is that...a counterfeit...and you’re right...there tactics and their heirarchy is not far from Islamic teachings in how they have a stronghold on their memebership.
Ping to #57...excellent post!
However given the investment by those in power and the fact that they themselves don't really buy all the “doctrine” and other fabrications, I suspect something is in the works.
Look for a new “prophet” to lead the Church away for the Joe Smith way and towards a nice and wholesome mainstream Christian format. The “prophet” will assure the faithful the past 170+ years were all just a test....
There is probably some poor downtrodden schmuck sitting in a class at BYU right now with some issue that the powers that be will get "treated" as they turn him into the next Joe Smith and "convince" him he saw god...
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