Skip to comments.Catholics, Get Ready to Suffer
Posted on 02/01/2012 3:38:01 PM PST by NYer
I remember coloring in the lions on the paper my Catechism teacher had handed out. The lions in the coliseum were approaching a group of huddled Catholics.
My CCD teacher asked us if we too were willing to suffer for our faith the way the martyrs of old did? I remember looking at those cartoon lions and deciding that yes, I very much had the stuff to stare down a cartoon lion. Easy.
But it’s easy to answer in the affirmative when we’re talking about cartoon lions. It’s different when we’re talking real life. Real lions have teeth.
And make no mistake, real life is what we’re talking now. We have a government that mandates what pro-life counselors must say. We have a government now that mandates that Catholic institutions pay for things it considers sinful. We have a government that now says the cost of being an American is to abandon Catholicism.
Bishop Fabian W. Bruskewitz of Lincoln, Nebraska in response to the Obama administration’s contraception mandate said, “We cannot and will not comply with this unjust decree. Like the martyrs of old, we must be prepared to accept suffering which could include heavy fines and imprisonment.”
This scares me but it’s true.
Now is the time when decisions must be made by Catholic college presidents and hospital administrators and the heads of all sorts of Catholic institutions. Should I do what the government tells me or what the Church tells me is right? Some whom we have great hope for will choose poorly. Some will stand up unexpectedly and refuse to comply with the government. And they will pay a price for being Catholic.
We’re no longer talking about the slippery slope here. We’ve walked off a cliff. We’re in free fall.
(Excerpt) Read more at ncregister.com ...
Being Roman Catholic is a deep source of joy for me and I am nourished completely by the fullness of the Faith. Catholicism is the best road to eternal life.
Through church, Jesus ministers to all who are sick in the world
'Amazing Grace for Those Who Suffer'
Pope Benedict asks sick to offer up suffering for priests (Catholic Caucus)
Why Must I Suffer?
On the Advantages of Tribulations by Saint Alphonsus Liguori
Why Be Catholic? 3: Suffering [Ecumenical]
"Love Really Can Make Suffering Bearable": Woman with Spina Bifida
Experts at Euthanasia Symposium Stress Unity, Strategy, and the Triumph of Love over Suffering
Holy Father prays for peace and unity, encourages the suffering to trust in God
Joy-Filled Suffering, Laetare Sunday
Children 'Suffering >From Lack Of Two-Parent Family', Study Finds
Pope Says Euthanasia 'False Solution' to Suffering, Alludes to Comatose Woman's Fate
Excerpts from THE FRUITS OF HIS LOVE - The Value Of Suffering - Mother M. Angelica
Why Not You? (on suffering)
Vicar takes down crucifixion sculpture 'because it's a scary depiction of suffering'
The Value of Suffering in the Life of Christian Perfection
IN BRUSH WITH DEATH, PRIEST SHOWN HELL, PURGATORY, DEGREES OF SUFFERING
Prayers to Saint Agatha [For Those Suffering from Breast Cancer]
REDEMPTIVE SUFFERING(Catholic Caucus or by Invitation Only)
Elijah and Moses(or Enoch) are a part of the mix...they’ll give the AC/beast system a run for its money. The reason the two prophets will be here are to to be visible Shekinah empowered witness for the living God and to provide some sort of defense for those who haven’t taken the mark but are struggling to remain faithful. Think of everytime Pharoah upped the ante on the Isrealites, Moses upped the ante on Pharoah by the power of the living God. That’s what is going to occur with these future 2 prophets and with the 144000 set apart ones. At least that is my belief...Revelation says the 2 witnesses will have the power to shut up heaven so that there is no rain, and no one will be able to harm them without them being burned to a crisp first.
Another words, satanic super soldiers, ET’s, 40 foot giants, and spurious parlor tricks of the False Prophet, will be no match for the powers of deep heaven(CS Lewis phrase, I absolutely love) that these two witnesses will be able to muster. And when the Beast is allowed(and I mean allowed) to kill the 2 witnesses, God will raise them up(I sometimes think that’s when the rapture truly occurs...but I’m not strongly committed to that notion so please no arguements).
Praise God and as Alamo Girl would say...God’s name is I AM!
the age of denominations is finished.
Protestants for the Catholic Right to Choose
“the age of denominations is finished”
Yup, true Christians from all 4 branches, Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant, and the Messianic Jewish movements are going to have put Christ first, watch each other’s backs, allow Christ to knock all of our stubborn heads together so that we are formed into HIS true church...the one He wants us to be!
You do know that the denominations you are singling out are the ones that to this day have the closest ties to Rome ?
In fact Rome even considers them to be real Christians .
What you are pointing out is that it is these very same churches are full of liberals much like the Roman Catholic churches .
You know what the funniest thing I have read on this board is ? It was a comment by a Roman Catholic (Salvation) posted after the big Denver football win by Tim Tebow .
I wish I could find the post but I did not book mark it (pinging Salvation too) Basically she thought he was a Roman Catholic because he did not believe in abortion.
Tim Tebow is a born again Christian who has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ . He was raised in a Baptist church and he is a missionary preacher overseas (his football job comes second to his preacher job)
Having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is not a ticket to living a sinful life . It means that sin will no longer reign in your life , the Holy Spirit cleans you up . You do not become sinless but right away you start sinning a whole lot less.
Oh BTW even with all that money , all the temptation that he is put under , he is also still a virgin.
Can you say that about your own children under normal circumstances ?
I laugh because I constantly hear how wrong we are and yet I also constantly hear this so and so must be catholic .
He is exactly what you want your kids to be
He is born again.
He has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ .
He is indwelt by the Holy Spirit .
He knows how to ask the Holy Spirit to constantly keep him filled to overflowing.
His eyes are not on anything but Christ .
He does not run around asking Mary to help him , he knows who his redeemer is and by that I mean HE REALLY KNOWS HIM.
He does not trust in his church to get him there by any mysteries etc .
Is he sinless ? No
Is he perfect ? No
If he was either he would just ask God to move over when he got to heaven.
He is not defeated and blind .
No trouble supporting that.
There is more than a bit of a problem on FR, however.
A fair number of RC’s hereon
appear to be
bound and determined to:
1. change FR into more than an APPARENTLY Vatican installed and managed outpost—into one where RC heresies, dogmas, customs, doctrines of men, doctrines of demons, daffynitions, rubberized history, rubberized Bibles, sensibilities etc rule the day in every way 24/7 in all respects.
2. They are used to !!!DEMANDING!!! such and getting away with layers more of such hideousness than any Proddy would dare imagine even if we were inclined toward such junk—thankfully, we usually and wholesale aren’t. Amazing unity on that score on our side.
3. They are used to posting threads with outrageously baiting titles seemingly designed to shove a red hot poker into every Proddy eye that sees them.
4. They seem to exalt in posting threads and titles of threads which strike Proddys as outrageously blasphemous TO GOD. Then they love to wail, whine, rant and dogpile the abuse button when Proddys have a predictable response.
5. They exclaim DEMANDINGLY of RC sensibilities and historical/hysterical, theological hogwash in the most ABSOLUTIST, AUTHORITARIAN terms from the most HAUGHTY OF HEIGHTS and then wail loudly, sit on the abuse button and throw dust in the air about how abused they are when Proddys dare to point out a shred of their hideousness on such scores.
6. They seem to have a SPECIAL EXALTED IN, RELIGIOUS DUTY OF OBLIGATION to demonstrate and parade the thinnest of skins possible and the bleeding heart wailing that seems calculatedly designed to accompany such instant shrieking from a hyper-thin-skinned perspective and emotionality.
7. Then, if some Proddy writes anything that can at all be construed in the most twisted of fashions to be something to shriek about, the shrieking chorus begins in 24/7 shifts.
8. A lot of times, if I didn’t presume better, I’d think that a bunch of 2 year olds in some nunnery somewhere had by some miracle learned to type and post without ever maturing past the chronic-wailing stages.
9. Throw in an overworked volunteer RM and some mods who seem to cater to the RC sensibilities and perspectives and it can be a rather discouraging mess on the best of days.
10. For Proddys and our perspective to have any potent visibility in the town square of FR at all, we have to speak up pretty forcefully and persistently IN SPITE OF the hideousness of the RC’s.
11. Yet, when we do, their shrillness and outrageousness only increases. The only thing they are happy with is when they manage to silence us through some hook or crook or we take a vacation or fast FR.
12. Some of us are not willing to concede the playing field to them anywhere near that degree. Lurkers deserve to have a potent representation of the Proddy perspective, too.
13. Sometimes we are forceful in our writings because that seems to be the only language the rabid RC types understand. It’s the only thing that seems to cause them to pause a bit or adjust their blood dripping fangs a bit or think maybe twice before posting such chronic venom.
14. I don’t have a solution. Wish I did. It’s been more than a little disheartening to disgusting to outrageously affrontive to any sensibilities about God whatsoever—for a long time.
I agree with your goal. I don’t know how to get there—all things considered.
One can only hope.......
This controversey just blew up about a week or so...a lot of us will be there!
Where is the gospel of your salvation in that statement? It's the gospel that saves. And it's not there. So what good is the creed if you don't have salvation as THE POINT of Christianity? You're not a Christian if you're not saved. You're not saved if you believe that creed makes you a Christian.
Most Proddys get on quite well the the
It’s the rabid clique types that drive us to distractions.
Where is “there” exactly? Any Catholic hospital/care center?
A question for Catholics: Catholic sisters (at least the ones in my area) seem extremely feminist to the point of seeming anti-Pope, where do they stand in all of this?
I guess I meant “there” in terms of any publicised protest or event where Catholics have requested help from all interested parties, Protestant et al. This is an existential threat to religious freedom in this nation and one that can not be allowed by any spiritually minded person.
They'll never, ever, not in a million years, catch up with the fantasies some people put out ABOUT my religion.
God has put a beautiful feast in front of men in the form of the Catholic faith, but so many people spit in his face, tell him it's garbage, and pat themselves on their backs for how "faithful" they are.
It's truly sad. It reminds me of a time when a Man (who was more than a man) preached peace and forgiveness, healed the sick, and raised the dead. For his trouble, the righteous "true believers" of his day declared him to be doing the work of Satan, spat on him, and had unbelievers beat him savagely and nail him to a cross.
This is a Catholic priest dying for his faith. An instant after this picture was taken, bullets ripped into his chest. His name is Fr. Miguel Pro.
His last words were (he is Mexican) "Viva Cristo Rey!" ("Long live Christ the King!") Martyrdom to him isn't something imagined at the hands of an imaginary and utterly fanciful "end times" fusion of Catholicism and Islam (impossible!) but a completely real event received at the hands of Masonic socialists in 1927. There were tens or hundreds of millions of Catholic and Orthodox believers like him in the last century.
This is Bishop Theodore Romzha, Greek-Catholic bishop of a place called Mukachevo, now in Ukraine. He was riding in a horse-draw wagon in 1947. Soviet soldiers deliberately rammed the wagon with a truck, then beat him savagely. While he was in the hospital recovering, a "nurse" gave him a fatal injection on the orders of the local commissar, a man you may have heard of named Nikita Khrushchev. Martyrdom to Bishop Romzha isn't something imagined at the hands of an imaginary and utterly fanciful "end times" fusion of Catholicism and Islam (impossible!) but a completely real event received at the hands of Soviet communists.
You can talk to them about any bizarre ideas you have about the Catholic faith cooperating with antichrist. They've faced down real antichrists in person. As I say, you can talk to them about it, in heaven ... if you make it.
I didn’t say it was just Israel. I said it was focused on the Nation of Israel. How do you think that non-Jews will be saved during the tribulation? They will go through Israel. He will bless those that bless them and curse those who curse them. Israel will be a Nation of Priests to all the nations during the Kingdom Reign of Christ. The middle wall of partition that separated Jews from Gentiles has been removed during this age of grace. But it will be back up during the tribulation. The nations will be judged on how they treated Israel.
James 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believeand shudder!
Intellectual assent is not saving faith.
But not ONE WORD about the REASON He was crucified, died, was buried and rose again. The WHOLE GOSPEL is MISSING.
Lazarus died, was buried and rose again. That doesn't mean he died FOR OUR SINS.
What is missing is the one thing that cannot be missing: FOR OUR SINS.
Just a mistake? An overlook on their part? You tell me...
“I dont have a solution. Wish I did. Its been more than a little disheartening to disgusting to outrageously affrontive to any sensibilities about God whatsoeverfor a long time.”
I have been finding that when folks get outrageously assaultive...pointing out their hiding behind a pseudonym when they say things like that as being cowardly tends to change the tenor of the conversation. It’s why i post openly under my name...wrinkles and all. Any correction I need is also out in the open(ouch!!!), but good for the soul. I understand the reason for some to need a pseudonym and it does provide some cover for those who are learning to find their voice in public discourse. As for me, pseudonym or not... spook types, et’s or what have you, I figure, already have my IP in their “targets’...so as a freeper...pseudonymmed or not, I’m screwed anyway when the first ‘round ups’ occur!
As I reminded another, ‘detractor’ recently...Paul didn’t preach under an alias such as BlindedByTheLight777 when he climbed Mars hill!(I hope you get the funny in the aforementioned “psuedo” pseudonym).
You may call Michael or Mike if you prefer, in the future!
Praise God they were faithful unto martyrdom.
unto their Ashteroth-Mary-Goddess caricatured personage
the Vatican Institution!
Else their martyrdom may have been in vain.
I’d be happy and honored to march with the RC’s in behalf of that issue.
Probably not next to those who have only daggers out for me.
Congratulations, you have just refuted the entire rational for the Protestant Reformation. Perhaps you are not as far away form home as you think.
I understand . . . given the death & violence and harrassment threats—some of which have reached alarmingly close . . . and a Muslim ‘prayer location’ just a bit down the road . . . it’s only wisdom, for me.
I certainly have no delusions about hiding anything from the powers that be.
This Catholic agrees with you.
You make a good point...I wonder if we could take that creed and insert...”while he suffered under Pilate, it was for our sins he was crucified unto death”
When read that way, the Creed suddenly takes on a whole new shine and aroma!
They have a prophesy that says the last Pope will be Petros Romano.
PETER THE ROMAN
and that this Pope will lead them through the tribulation
Get that THE ROMAN
even some of their own people say he will be an antichrist
Doesn’t it though! My question remains, why was the gospel left out? accident? purposely? If a religious institution does NOT teach that Christ died for our sins, and was raised from the dead for our justification; that salvation is a free gift from God, and that we are saved by grace through faith in His finished work ALONE, not through ANY works of righteousness we may perform, then I can tell you it wasn’t left out by accident. They cannot preach salvation by grace alone and works for salvation at the same time. If works are taught as necessary for salvation, the gospel is the LAST thing that institution wants in their creeds. Hence the need for THE GOSPEL to be strangely ABSENT.
FOR OUR SINS does not fill their coffers
They have been so snookered
You got that right! Those three words “FOR OUR SINS” would collapse the entire institution. And they can’t have that. What would they do with all the art and ermine?
I have always thought that its dangerous to use something like the Apostles Creed. Like metmom said Intellectual assent is not saving faith. Youre right in that it says nothing of shedding his blood for the remission of sins. It rings hollow if the understanding that Christ was the perfect once for all time sacrifice for our sins and reliance on that alone is what saves.
People died for their faith in Stalin, Hitler and many other despots as well.
meant to ping you also.
People were burned at the stake for saying they were followers of Christ in Spain and France and Italy by Roman Catholics for not wanting to take part in any of their indulgences or bowing to any of their images.
You know what the difference was ?
It was the testimonies they gave while being tortured that brought on THE REFORMATION.
They gave testimonies like Stephen gave to the Pharisies just before he was stoned .
Why and how should people "offer up" their suffering? I fully understand and appreciate that God allows suffering in our lives for his own purposes such as for growth, discipline, chastisement and to show forth his power and mercy. But, why do Catholics believe they must offer up their suffering to God for the benefit of someone else?
Perhaps you are the person to ask this question to, JSteff...Is Jesus Christ subject to His mother in heaven? If her position in heaven is Mater Dei, the Mother of God, is He subject to her?
You still have to remember that for centuries it was the Orthodox in the East and the Roman Catholics that were the twin pillars of the faith on Earth. For better or worse, if you wanted to know about Jesus, you went to their priests The priests that were sent into the hinterlands had their faith and not much else since the headquarters were months away in some cases and news came seldom. Christ used these humble personages of the faith even if scandals and leadership quarrels marred the upper offices of the Church.
It was by the 1300’ to the 1500’s that the corruption had reached a place in these two branches that the spread of the gospel of Jesus was in danger of being snuffed out on Earth. The Orthodox of the East were being swamped by the Muslims and their own corruption and in 1453 Constantinople fell.
The Roman Catholic upper hierarchy were involved in all sorts of machaivellian intrigues involving politics and the rise and fall of kings in Europe as well as the growth of questionable religious practises that even learned men of the established faith were turning away...even at great peril to their lives.
So God acted by infusing new “olive branches” into the body of Christ and the Protestant reformation was born, humbling the temporal power of the Catholics in Europe; while at the same time, birthing a notion of representative government with charters and constitutions guaranteeing basic rights to every man. The printing press allowed bibles to be printed especially into the vernacular languages and many learned to read with the bible as their first primer!
So do remember that what we know of Christ as well as the scriptures that we as Protestants cherish, do come from what the Catholics and Orthodox preserved thru the dark centuries and that old olive shoots carefully pruned can again become productive! I certainly remember those facts.
This is my personal overview only and I’m sure the dust can be raised regarding the thees and the whosiwhatzits of what some pope did what and Luther being an anti semite, the role of Mary, and all that sort of stuff. I am looking at church history via the lens of the gospel...another words is there any body out there at any one time preaching the saving word of the gospel...doesn’t matter what faith system he hails from.
I just read that post. That is not true. You should not even misled whatever you believe in whatever form. That’s not right.