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1 posted on 02/02/2012 6:57:52 PM PST by Vinylly
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To: Vinylly

http://www.fellowship-pres.org/evangelical-covenant-order/

Looks like they are the same.


2 posted on 02/02/2012 7:13:58 PM PST by WestwardHo
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To: Vinylly
I had just learned that our church in Seattle is leaving the Presbyterian Churches USA into a new organizing body called The Evangelical Covenant Order of Presbyterians. Two of the largest churches in the Seattle area, also Presbyterians are sponsers this effort. I haven't been able to figure out from their website if The Fellowship of Presbyterians is the same organization. (www.fellowship-pres.org ) It is also rumored that this exudus from Presbyterian Churches USA was a rebellion aganinst their recent vote to allow gays to become ministers

Face it.

This constant fissioning is not Christ's will for His Church. It is a terminal flaw in what is commonly called "protestantism" - one "protest" after another, all leading to the same result.

Give it up and come home.

3 posted on 02/02/2012 7:18:13 PM PST by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: Vinylly
Discussed briefly here.

Any feel for how many congregations and people are making the jump?

5 posted on 02/02/2012 7:26:18 PM PST by Lee N. Field (Never argue eschatology with a crazy person.)
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To: Vinylly

Which church are you at?


8 posted on 02/02/2012 7:49:11 PM PST by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: Vinylly

I grew up in a large Presbyterian church which left the PCUSA in the ‘80s, joining the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC) denomination. I also have a Masters of Theology degree from a very well respected evangelical Presbyterian seminary.

Looking at the Evangelical Covenant Order of Presbyterians (ECO) website above it appears ECO is very similar in that it is primarily made up of ex-PCUSA Churches. The EPC though, allows congregational freedom regarding women’s ordination, while the ECO “is fully committed to God’s equal call on women and men in ministry and leadership” (meaning, you must accept women pastors and elders or leave.....).

Hence this is a new Presbyterian denomination which is basically evangelical, and does not accept homosexual ordination, but....it is feminist.

I find that a hard row to hoe—to be a Bible believing Christian AND a feminist, as the New Testament clearly sets up men in Church leadership positions (12 male disciples for starters) plus the Apostle Paul said some pretty stern things prohibiting women to be in Church leadership over men.

Here’s short article from Ligonier Ministries (R.C.Sproul’s group), a solid evangelical Presbyterian group:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Female Authority

“Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.”
- 1 Timothy 2:11-12

Although it is hard to know everything the false teachers in Ephesus promoted, most commentators believe these “instructors” had many women followers (2 Tim. 3:6), including young widows who embraced the heretics’ asceticism, which included such things as avoiding certain foods and shunning remarriage (1 Tim. 4:1–5; 5:11–15). Paul’s words about jewelry (2:9–10) also indicate the presence of wealthy women who likely allowed churches to meet in their homes, the normal way the earliest Christians gathered for fellowship and teaching. These rich ladies probably let the errant elders infiltrate worship, and in turn they likely allowed the women to teach men.

Our look at 1 Timothy 2:11–12 cannot ignore this setting, but we must not assume that the passage’s cultural context means that its teaching is invalid today. Many people disagree, saying that Paul forbade women to hold authority over men in the church only temporarily and that women may now serve as elders. To answer this position we must look at what else the Bible says on the subject. Paul also addresses women in public worship in 1 Corinthians 14:33b–35, calling for their silence in a different context. This application of a similar principle in separate settings (Ephesus and Corinth) points to its universality. The universality of 1 Timothy 2:11–12 is also grounded in principles inherent in creation, which we will investigate further tomorrow. None of these principles, however, supports male superiority, for the Bible knows no such thing.

What Paul says in today’s passage is that women are barred from preaching and teaching in worship, not every kind of speaking. Paul assumes women will prophesy in Corinth (1 Cor. 11:4–5) and throughout Scripture women engage in speech acts in the worship service (like singing, see Ex. 15:20–21; Col. 3:16). First Timothy 2:11–12, then, is calling women to be attentive and not interruptive, prohibiting their ordination to the office of elder. Dr. R.C. Sproul writes, “Paul is saying that women can be involved in all kinds of…ministry in the church but…the role of juridical authority or of governing authority is not to be held by women” (Now That’s a Good Question, p. 346).
Coram Deo

Dr. John MacArthur says, “Paul is forbidding women from filling the office and role of the pastor or teacher. He is not prohibiting them from teaching in other appropriate conditions and circumstances” (The MacArthur Bible Commentary, p. 1,783). All of us have been blessed by mothers, women missionaries and Sunday school teachers, and other females who have taught us the Word without being elders. Let us thank God for the many godly women in our lives.

(from: http://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/female-authority/ )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I agree with this, and the concept of sex-roles as a part of our gifting from God. Men and women are equally valuable...and neither is superior to the other, however, in the Church at least the Bible is clear that Christ-like male leadership is God’s way.


19 posted on 02/03/2012 1:50:45 PM PST by AnalogReigns (because REALITY is never digital...)
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