Skip to comments.According to Php 1:15-18, Sen. Hatch was wrong to chastise Obama for quoting Jesus' words
Posted on 02/03/2012 6:18:26 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
Do I agree with Obama's interpretation of Luke 12:48? No.
Do I agree with Obama in his 2004 interview "I have a deep faith" in which he said that there many paths to heaven/the Father and his words which were contrary to Jesus saying He is the "Way, Truth, Life...no man comes unto the Father but by me." Absolutely not.
Do I agree with Mormon teaching that Jesus and Satan are brothers? Again, absolutely not. (link below in comments section.)
The point of the this thread is to point out that Orrin Hatch was wrong. In fact, I believe that he was actually upset with Obama's interpretation of Luke 12:48 and his connecting of it to taxation, and hid behind another line of attack, accusing him of acting as "theologian-in-chief."
Let's look at Philippians 1:15-18:
The Apostle Paul: "It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice."
The crux of the matter that transcends the church age: "The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice."
Does that mean that false doctrine, be it from universalists like Obama or those Word of Faithers who say that they are "little gods" or Mormons who say they are a god-in-embryo shouldn't be challenged? Certainly not. Paul himself said that he "cut the ground out from under" those who taught false doctrine.
But Paul doing this and writing this in the scriptures does not negate Php 1:15-18. Why? We need more talking about Jesus, wherever it is at, not less.
Jesus said, in so many words, “Practice what you preach.” Jesus also said he loved a happy giver. Well, I don’t know if the Obamas are happy but they don’t give much - ONE percent of their incomes to charity on recent income taxes. Biden, their VP, gave all of $ 369 to charity - I gave more than that when I was in graduate school 30 years ago.
The problem with you analysis is that obama didn’t preach Christ. He distorted Christ’s message for political reasons.
The Bible has some pretty harsh words for people who distort the Word...
Mormon teaching that Satan and Jesus are brothers:
“How can Jesus and Satan be Spirit brothers when their characters and purposes are so utterly opposed?”
If you Google “lds.org” it says “official site.”
This article (second one down when you click on the link), is from Ensign. Mormons have had 25 years to remove this from Ensign, and this wouldn’t be at lds.org if Mormons didn’t believe it.
Paul does not state that the others were teaching a false gospel though, but that whether they taught the gospel our of a desire to harm him or for good, the gospel was being preached. Heresy is not the same. To teach that you can get to God many ways is not the gospel. I think one must draw the line here.
Your interpretation of the Constitution is false.
There can be no officially sanctioned state church.
Nothing in the Constitution says that a Republican or Democrat can’t talk about Jesus.
“Mormon teaching that Satan and Jesus are brothers:”
I spit on that statement.
Sorry, but this guy is wrong. Obama wasn’t “preaching Christ” while having selfish or impure motives. He was twisting Christ’s teaching into something it definitely was not, and then using Christ’s name to lend legitimacy to it. That is an entirely different matter.
You are mischaracterizing and pigeonholing Paul’s words.
Those who preach out of envy, selfish ambition, stirring up trouble, etc in Paul’s day obviously weren’t called of God.
Yet Paul still said that they were preaching.
Just like Obama, who is preaching out of a wrong motive.
More than once I have said what Obama said then was false doctrine, and it was blasphemy, too.
As Morminism is also false doctrine and blasphemous as well.
Thank you Oprah.
Did Obama preach Christ? I only heard him appropriate Christ’s words to justify his socialist policies.
Show us in the Constitution where the phrase “separation of church and state” appear.
Jefferson was talking about keeping the state out of churches, not the other way around.
But, Like I said, Paul cutting the ground out from under the feet of those who teach heresy does not negate Php 1: 15-18.
Obama’s universalitic heresy is heretical and Mormonism is heretical.
Mark you this Bassanio,
The Devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!
Merchant of Venice
Mormons don’t preach the true Christ.
So then, based upon your words, Hatch should have remained silent.
Misses the point. The left is always screaming about separation of church and state to tamp out public exercise of religion entirely. Then the leftist leader invokes Jesus to support his thieving tax policy. Ironic in my view. I don’t want the government to take property or force alms giving on the basis of a Christian principle.
Mormons, unfortunately, believe in and teach this false, heretical doctrine.
It irks me to no end that the left cites Jesus for their own purposes. Then they turn around and dump Him for Darwin when it suits them.
But we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater, though.
When the right talks about Jesus, and they should, they need to not back down, but remind the left of Obama and others on the left doing the same.
And I think their early writings also inform us that there are people living on the Moon and on the Sun.
Sort of undermines their theological credibility.
You are right in what you stated—but IMO I have no problem with one like Obama distorting Christ’s message IF it allows those who recognize that distinction to PREACH Christ.Problem is ,as I believe the Pope finally noticed America is increasingly hostile to Christianity and Christ. And few are bold to speak before the throne of the unbelievers.
So what did Hatch basically say except that Obama wasn’t Jesus?
Hey he’s in good company with such —Communists, Queers,and that Muslim Brotherhood that played a role in his upbringing all seem pretty good at appropriations.
You argument fails in that in Philippians 1:15-18 Paul is referring to those who at least preach an accurate Gospel, although perhaps insincerely. Paul called those who preach a false Gospel “accursed”, even if it’s a Angel doing the preaching. Further, he warned that we should not associate or even dine with such false Christians. Peter’s condemnation of those preaching such false Christianity, in 2 Peter chapter 2, is even more direct and constitutes perhaps the harshest polemic in the entire NT.
Your argument would be more appropriate for television evangalists who get rich, but stay true to the Word.
He is preaching out of false motives.
Proverbs 26:7 describes a person like this with amazing clarity.
“Like a lame mans legs which hang useless is a proverb in the mouth of fools”
This is perfect as it describes God’s word being used to accomplish selfish ends and as another poster on this thread aptly points out lines up with St. Peter’s admonition on false teachers in the 2nd chapter of his second epistle.
Christ was NOT being preached. Socialism was. Christ was being co-opted for a socialist agenda.
Actually, I would think this verse would apply more to the televangelists of the world than to those pushing explicitly anti-Christ ideologies. But I suppose this is a matter of opinion.
Now you h ave mine.
Anybody can talk about anything but race, seems like. They can be called out on false doctrine, though.
obama loves his vision of Jesus the social crusader (kinda like barry himself). The illiterate intellectually lazy barry has a totally misguided narcissist interpretation of Jesus.
God did not send his only begotten son to tax the rich and give govt the money to waste on cronies and pet projects
but to offer salvation to mankind, which includes the unborn, the unborn who are known by the Creator while still in the womb.
How does barry think Jesus would vote on the “Live Birth Protection Act”? When will somebody ASK HIM?
Does barry think Jesus would find the muslim call to prayer the sweetest sound on earth, and that muslims should be invited into God’s houses of faith as “one of the world’s great religions” and that the US government should use tax dollars to build wiccan circles at the US Air Force academy?
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
This WICKED, GODLESS, EVIL man has a half brother living in a cardboard hut on $12 a month; Obamessiah’s wife spends 50 THOUSAND DOLLARS on sexy underwear in a day, they have spent HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS ON LAVISH VACATIONS AND SPENDING SPREES and he hasn’t given his brother a penny to aid his suffering! It is nothing short of hypocrisy for him to talk about “caring for the poor” and blasphemy for him to say what he is saying about the Lord Jesus Christ, the so-called “rich” and taxes!
Dang! ya beat me to it. See post 30
Those who preach out of envy, selfish ambition, stirring up trouble, etc in Pauls day obviously werent called of God.
Yet Paul still said that they were preaching.
Just like Obama, who is preaching out of a wrong motive.
But preaching, like "change", "peace", "hope", "diversity", etc. is meaningless by itself. The use of the word must be modified by what is being "preached". Obama is NOT preaching Christ, but Satan. Don't ever forget it.
Mac daddy is only following the path he travels every second of every day. LIE,LIE,LIE.
What are we a Theocracy? Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasars- Christ didn’t say give everything to the state- and God never threatens with imprisonment if you don’t do what he asks- the consequence of not following God is always natural- doesn’t even need to be deliberate on his part. Senator Hatch can be accused of the same. He’s picked winners and losers with plundered funds. www.hatchrecord.com He’s burdened us all with his 17 votes to raise the debt = 7.6 trillion dollars.
Also look up Psalms 82: 6
Satan, and Cain- being offspring from God- is Biblical