Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies.
Locked on 03/05/2012 8:20:32 PM PST by Religion Moderator, reason:

Childish behavior



Skip to comments.

Saul And The Charismatics...
http://billrandles.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/saul-and-the-charismatics/ ^ | 02-14-12 | Bill Randles

Posted on 02/14/2012 4:00:49 PM PST by pastorbillrandles

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 151-200201-250251-300 ... 901-919 next last
To: imardmd1
Photobucket

201 posted on 02/22/2012 9:47:35 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 200 | View Replies]

To: Quix
I have NOT taken the stance of those who’ve offended your pride with a stance on tongues contrary to Scripture.

It's not a matter of pride, quix. It's a matter of not having strong enough Scriptural support from them to back up what they're telling me I must do for them to consider me spiritual.

My misunderstanding about the point with the kids. One of the problems I've discovered with posting is that my thoughts don't come across, only my words, so often the point I was making isn't understood correctly.

202 posted on 02/22/2012 11:00:35 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 196 | View Replies]

To: Quix; boatbums; smvoice; caww

Look, while I recognize that verse, it does NOT say that praying in tongues = praying in the Spirit.

Do you think that someone can pray in the Spirit without speaking in tongues? Does Scripture state anywhere that praying is tongues is more effective or powerful than praying in one’s native language?

I am a die hard individualist. If someone can show me something out of Scripture that is verified in two to three places and is clear in its interpretation, and I am convinced that God is telling me something or expecting something out of me, then it’s a no-brainer.

If someone is telling me I have to do something that is not a moral issue but a matter of social convention or traditions of men over Scripture, then I will dig my heels in and fight if faster than anyone else you know. I will NOT do something just because everyone else is doing it and if anyone expects me to, then they’d better have really good Scriptural support for it or they can forget it.

The evidence of the Spirit filled life is walking in the Spirit, living the life of Christ as outlined in the Bible. It’s producing the fruit of the Spirit in one’s life as stated in Galatians 5. It’s having the mind of Christ in all things.

It is not praying or speaking in tongues.


203 posted on 02/22/2012 11:11:41 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 197 | View Replies]

To: metmom

Plenty true.

That sort of thing abounds all over Christendom in one form or another.

You are likely aware how many RC’s do not consider either one of us spiritual . . . unless it’s the negative kind.

We consider the sources and go on, usually.

It’s important that Jesus knows we walk as spiritually close to Him in His Spirit more or less as we know how to do.

The opinions of others on that score are a trap, as Scripture says—a snare.

We’ll rarely please many on such scores. Well, you may well please a cast of thousands but I know at 65 that I won’t.

I see tongues as a tool, an aid . . . a gift, yes. But one available to all who ask and then walk it out in faith. Sometimes God confirms with Holy Spirit goose bumps and ‘electricity’ and usually not. I still walk it out in faith as He taught me to. And the results are His doing and business . . . though thankfully, He brings them along often enough.

Prayer is a tool, an aid, a communication, a gift as well.

as are a list of good things that assist us in our walk with The Lord. None are designed to be worshiped or pedestalized.

imho.

Thanks for your kind reply.

I don’t think y’all have understood my bit about humility.

LETTING GO of

obsessive !!!!CONTROL!!!!

and of pride

ENOUGH to ‘jabber gibberish’ in front of God and everyone

takes SOME humility. To persist in humility is also a point of spiritual growth. And, I still think that’s ONE of the reasons God set it up—given His priority on humility.

AND, I think it takes a willingness to surrender that most offensive body part—our tongue—to gibberish and trust Holy Spirit IN FAITH to convey the meaning—is ALSO a way to sideline our MENTAL NOISE and MENTAL intrusiveness into the communication between our spirits and God.

AND, I think that’s the only way that God can get us to be COMPLIANT, SUBMISSIVE AND COOPERATIVE enough to speak in another known language 100% at His anointing if and when He decides to do that. Otherwise, we’d be trying to control our mouth and voice apparatus so much He’d have to hog-tie us to get it done.

imho.


204 posted on 02/22/2012 11:25:48 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 202 | View Replies]

To: metmom

I think I understand your feelings and perspective.

Certainly the FRUIT OF HOLY SPIRIT

ARE BY FAR

THE HIGHER PRIORITY.


205 posted on 02/22/2012 11:29:50 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 203 | View Replies]

To: metmom; Quix; boatbums; caww
I've been out of town for the last few days, without my Bible. So I did not want to comment too much without having Scripture to give regarding my beliefs on this. Now I'm home, and am going over these posts. I'm not exactly comfortable discussing these few issues with fellow believers, as they (these issues) sometimes cause problems within the Body. But at the same time, we are told to preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 2 Tim. 2:2. So it has nothing to do with my comfort level, and everything to do with God's Word.

Just please know this is not a personal attack on anyone. Metmom, you and I have discussed these things before and you know what my feelings are regarding this, and why. I've just never discussed them openly with others.

Let me get my thoughts together along with Scripture, and I'll be back. I just wanted to let you all know that I've not shirked my responsibility to respond. God Bless :)

206 posted on 02/22/2012 1:35:32 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing are for an eternity..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 203 | View Replies]

To: smvoice; metmom; Quix; boatbums; caww
I guess the first place to start is Corinthians.

When were they written by Paul? 1 Cor. was written about 59AD. 2 Cor. was written about 60AD. BOTH were written BEFORE the close of the Acts period. Specifically, Acts 28, when Israel was blinded and set aside. (Galatians was also written during this time, 58AD, as were 1 and 2 Thess., both in 54 AD., and Romans, 60AD). Why is this important? Because God was still dealing with Israel as a nation, until He blinds her and sets her aside, they become "lo Ammi", "not my people", at the close of Acts. Acts 28:25-29.

As long as He was dealing with Israel, miracles, signs, and wonders abounded. Even among Gentile members of the body of Christ. Why? "Ye men of ISRAEL, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man APPROVED OF GOD AMONG YOU BY MIRACLES AND WONDERS AND SIGNS, which God did by Him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know." Acts 2:22.

This is why Paul writes to the Romans that "Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision..to CONFIRM the promises made unto the fathers" Rom. 15:8.

All written before Israel is finally set aside.

"The Jews REQUIRE a SIGN" 1 Cor. 1:22. Of course there would be miracles, signs, and wonders BEFORE Israel is blinded. Even among the Gentiles in the body of Christ.

The question is, did they continue, or did they stop after the close of the Book of Acts? If so, when, and why?

207 posted on 02/22/2012 2:07:39 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing are for an eternity..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 206 | View Replies]

To: smvoice

Cessationism is unsupported by Scripture—not a microscopic shred of support is in Scripture.

The world, the flesh and the devil have NOT changed.
God has NOT changed
Mankind has NOT changed
The devil’s strategies and methods have NOT changed in any essential terms.

To repeat:

Uhhhhhhhhh hello? Is it your impression that demons and demonic demonstrations have been on vacation the last 2000 years?

Is it your impression that Christians have been expected to battle demonic forces IN THEIR FLESH?

Is it your impression that Christians are called to wage war with principalities & powers in high places spiritually neutered with their portion of Holy Spirit’s miraculous potency in the closet or ‘gone fishing?’

That’s definitely NOT my Biblical understanding by a great long shot.

And that’s DEFINITELY NOT BEEN MY EXPERIENCE either. It has frequently taken all the praying in tongues, praying for healing; praying for supernatural assistance of various types etc. to do whatever God was calling me to do in various situations.

Given the lawlessness and massive demonic forces unleashed uniquely in the END TIMES, THE GIFTS OF HOLY SPIRIT ARE DESPERATELY NEEDED FAR MORE NOW THAN EVER IN HISTORY—INCLUDING IN THE ACTS 2 ERA.

Scripture teaches we are to walk IN HIS SPIRIT, IN HIS BLOOD, IN HIS ABUNDANT LIFE, IN HIS HEALING, IN HIS EMPOWERING, IN HIS SUPERNATURAL GUIDANCE, IN HIS SUPERNATURAL PROVISION . . . SILVER AND GOLD HAVE I NONE—IN THE NAME OF JESUS—GET UP AND WALK . . . THESE SIGNS SHALL FOLLOW THEM THAT BELIEVE . . .

!NOW!

That Scripture does NOT SAY “shall follow them that believe after they get to Heaven.”

Who needs such in heaven??? Sigh.
There’s no need for healing there!
There’s no need for supernatural provision there.
There’s no need for a banquet in the presence of our enemies there.
There’s no need for supernatural guidance there.

There’s no need to add rebelliously to Revelation or anything else in Scripture AS ENSCRIPTURATED SCRIPTURE.

However,

IF

Cessationists were CONSISTENT on that score—their churches would never ever hear another sermon. All they’d do is stand up and read Scripture to one another. And if they had anything to say to one another, they’d just quote Bible verses to one another.


Thanks for your kind reply.

Blessings,

It is a pile of rationalizations from . . .

comforting human comfort zones . . .

particularly humans who

LOVE to be IN !!!CONTROL!!!

and who are not all that thrilled with a supernatural God who does things HIS way, HIS timing, with HIS surprises . . . unless they are in a bind requiring a miracle and then their theology tends to become a LOT more flexible in a hurry.


208 posted on 02/22/2012 2:49:54 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 207 | View Replies]

To: metmom

Do you think that someone can pray in the Spirit without speaking in tongues? Does Scripture state anywhere that praying is tongues is more effective or powerful than praying in one’s native language?


Those verses, indicate to me, . . . and I’d think to anyone fair-mindedly considering the language of the text . . . THAT

Paul was equating—essentially saying—that in that context—praying in The Spirit was praying in tongues. That is the simple INESCAPABLE LANGUAGE of those verses. Ask an atheist linguist for a POSSIBLY unbiased perspective.

Do I believe that one can “pray In The Spirit” and not be praying in tongues? Yes, actually, I do.

But that’s A DIFFERENT DEFINITION OF TERMS

than ST PAUL WAS USING in those verses.


209 posted on 02/22/2012 2:56:55 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 203 | View Replies]

To: smvoice
Metmom, you and I have discussed these things before and you know what my feelings are regarding this, and why. I've just never discussed them openly with others.

take your time.

210 posted on 02/22/2012 2:57:37 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 206 | View Replies]

To: smvoice

I don’t believe that when Corinthians was written has a single thing to do with the issue.

That’s like concocting some jury-rigged pile of postulations to pretend that Mary ascended bodily into Heaven etc., to me.

Paul was clearly laying out in Corinthians what he considered

NORMATIVE PROPER CHRISTIAN BEHAVIOR IN THE CHRISTIAN GROUPS AND MEETINGS FOR THE ENTIRE CHURCH ERA.

I can’t really imagine how anyone could logically pretend anything else.

I know some do. I find it irrational and preposterous.


211 posted on 02/22/2012 3:00:29 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 207 | View Replies]

To: Quix; smvoice; boatbums; caww
I recall hearing someone once state that we are in spiritual warfare which is a truth battle not a power struggle.

It's a battle between the truth of God's word to bring men to faith in Christ and the lies of the enemy to keep men from faith in Christ.

(This is me now, not the other guy) The battleground is in the heart and mind. Satan has blinded the minds of unbelievers so that they don't know the truth. Our job is to bear witness to the truth. The truth is found in Scripture, in *It is written....*

That is all we need now. I agree that the signs that accompanied the early church believers to validate the message they were preaching are not necessary because now we have the completed canon of Scripture.

I do not believe that they have ceased altogether but are not so preeminent.

The problem I have with the whole tongues and signs movement is that people are using them as indicators of validity of a Spiritual experience without going to Scripture. By depending on them to validate some experience or teaching, it will be too easy for people to be led astray by counterfeits or fakes because they then won't be checking the teaching against Scripture but rather against the number of *signs* and experiences.

When someone gets to the point of saying *Wow, that really was from God* because of some show, like speaking in tongues being involved, they are in grave danger of being deceived because they are depending on the wrong criteria to check the teaching or experience against.

Of course Satan has not been on vacation the last 2,000, but what are the weapons of our spiritual warfare?

2 Corinthians 10:3-6 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. 5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, 6 being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete.

Ephesians 6:13-18 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

The weapon listed is the word.

The gifts are for the edification of the body, not for spiritual warfare. The word and prayer are for the warfare.

212 posted on 02/22/2012 3:21:22 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

To: imardmd1

You can add a third earthly witness to your pronouncements, I find them quite Biblical and well expressed. Thank you.


213 posted on 02/22/2012 3:53:40 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 188 | View Replies]

To: metmom; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; aragorn; auggy; ...

Sorry.

I don’t buy it.

Certainly we need discernment; to pray for discernment; teach discernment.

HOWEVER,

that line of thinking essentially says that

GOD DIDN’T KNOW WHAT HE WAS SAYING AND DOING

in terms of Holy Spirit giftings and spiritual warfare.

That somehow, God got HIS priorities all messed up.

GOD established the gifts

FOR FULLY EQUIPING THE SAINTS

FOR

drum roll

SPIRITUAL WARFARE AND THE SPREAD OF THE GOSPEL.

THESE SIGNS

SHALL

FOLLOW THEM THAT BELIEVE.

If they don’t, there’s something wrong with the belief or the practice of the belief.

GOD SAID THAT. NOT JOHN WIMBER—GOD ALMIGHTY.

AND HE MEANT IT.

Missionaries on the mission field find folks much more attuned to such realities . . . THEY KNOW what spiritual warfare with demonic forces is like. They are EXCEEDINGLY READY AND DESPERATE FOR

A POWER ENCOUNTER in John Wimber’s terms.

They want RID of the demonic forces from their person and from their families and from their villages.

Sure, the WORD is essential in all that.

So is discernment. So is miracles. So is healing.

The witch doctor engineers a healing counterfeit.

What is the Christian supposed to do? Say a few ‘hail Mary’s’, or recite a few Scriptures in a wimpy voice, shrug his shoulders and walk wimpily away with a hang-dog look, embarrassed over such a neutered response?

Desperate tribal and other people in undevloped countries NEED PRACTICAL, TANGIBLE ANSWERS AND SOLUTIONS.

They are NOT INTERESTED in theological excuses explaining how God can’t or won’t act supernaturally in their behalf in this era.

The whole idea that Holy Spirit goes around in our era muffled and in a straight jacket ONLY SERVES SATAN AND HIS KINGDOM

NOT THE CHURCH MILITANT!

NOT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!


214 posted on 02/22/2012 3:54:45 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 212 | View Replies]

To: metmom

FOR EXAMPLE:

1. By a WORD OF KNOWLEDGE, one knows where the key demonized person in the village is.

2. By a WORD OF KNOWLEDGE, one knows what the root of the demonization is

3. By a WORD OF KNOWLEDGE, one knows what the root of the disease is or the block to healing or how to pray specifically for healing.

4. By a WORD OF KNOWLEDGE, one knows how to prepare in advance for an attack by the witchdoctors of a competing tribe.

5. By a prophetic declaration, the attacking enemy is laid bare and neutralized before they do any damage.

6. By a prophetic declaration, a parent is emboldened to wage successful spiritual warfare over a child in a distant location.

etc. etc.


215 posted on 02/22/2012 3:58:48 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 212 | View Replies]

To: metmom; Quix
I know of people who wanted to be filled with the Holy Spirit and went forward for prayer and the people praying wouldn't let them go until they *spoke* in tongues, so after more than 20 minutes of being prayed for, they started *speaking* in tongues (aka faking it) just to get everyone to back off and let them go. And then everyone was happy because they all thought that the person had spoken in tongues and had been baptized (filled) in the Holy Spirit.

I can attest to that as well. I had a family member whose wife had the "gift of tongues" and they went to a church where it was encouraged. This man could never "get it" like they all tried to pray he would. Then one night, he said, he woke up and he was "speaking in tongues"! I would visit them in their home and if his wife and I discussed the issue at all - he knew I did not agree with them - he would come in and demand we stop or else I would not be welcome in his home again. I had never condemned them nor did his wife and I argue (that's not my style) but it was clear he did not want to even hear anything that might make him think.

Today this couple is divorced, the husband has gone the exact opposite direction from the Lord and no longer has any relationship with Him or other believers. This so-called gift made NO difference in his life and, instead, caused him to lose whatever faith he had.

I believe far too much emphasis is placed on this one gift alone - one that Paul said was the least of them - and the use they had in the first century after Christ is rarely if ever the same use today. Instead it is a club of superiority placed over a believer's head insisting that true worship of God and effectual, fervent prayer is impossible without it. Well, I say BALONEY! It was NEVER that back then and it definitely is not today. Those who worship God must do so in spirit AND truth. And whatever is not of faith, is sin.

216 posted on 02/22/2012 4:24:27 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 195 | View Replies]

To: Quix; metmom; boatbums
Quix, when Corinthians was written has everything to do with the issue. God was still dealing with Israel as a Nation during that time. And while we're on the subject of Corinthians, please take the time to reflect on what Paul says to them.

Paul calls the Corinthians UN-spiritual babes (1 Cor. 3:1) and sternly rebuked them for their carnality, for their "envying, and strife and divisions" (1 Cor. 3:3), for the immorality (1 Cor. 5:1), for their dishonesty and oppression of each other (1 Cor. 6:7,8), for their unfaithfulness in giving (1 Cor. 9:11-14), for the selfishness and pride (1 Cor. 11:21,22), and said to them: "And YE are puffed up, and have not rather mourned!" (1 Cor. 5:2, cf. 4:18).

YET this SAME Corinthian church, at this SAME time, ABOUNDED in miraculous gifts (1 Cor. 1:7, 12:8-11, 14:12,18,26).

This alone is proof that the miracles, signs and wonders had a reason for existence that had to do with another explanation than "proper Christian behavior in the Christian groups and meeting for the entire Church Era".

The offer of the kingdom, made at Pentecost by Peter, was not OFFICIALLY withdrawn until Acts 28:28. This means it was normal that miracles, signs and wonders would exist until that time. They were miraculous confirmations of Christ's kingdom rights and were given to confirm these rights.

When Israel was set aside, there was no longer any need of this, and the later epistles of Paul do not even recognize such gifts as being in order. He tells the Corinthians in his first letter to them that their miraculous powers were to be withdrawn: 1 Cor. 13:8. It was the GIFTS of prophecy, tongues and knowledge that were to be "done away." NOT that supernatural predictions would fail to come true, nor that men would stop talking or knowing.

It is the supernatural GIFTS and DEMONSTRATIONS that were to be done away. Miracles are being performed all about us constantly. But while God may miraculously heal the sick, according to HIS WILL, He does NOT use "divine healers" to accomplish this.

If a person is determined to go down that road, what about the Roman Catholic Church and her exorcisms and miracles signs and wonders? Or the Unity Movement? Or the Christian Scientists, and others who claim healing powers can present "evidences" as fully convincing. Are their powers, then, also God-given? And where do you go in Scripture to PROVE that yours is and theirs is not?

There is something better than these gifts that were bestowed on the early church. We are "blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places" (Eph. 1:3). Sometimes it is through our INFIRMITIES that we are drawn closer to God. 2 Cor. 12:9,10.

"My grace is sufficient for thee: for My strength is made perfect in weakness" (2 Cor. 12:9).

We are all on equal standing now before God. He chooses WHAT HE will do as He WILLS. Not because of "divine healers" or "being slayed in the spirit" or any of a number of things meant for a reason, but no longer needed as confirmation.

217 posted on 02/22/2012 4:26:03 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing are for an eternity..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 211 | View Replies]

To: Quix; boatbums; smvoice; caww
By living out Scripture one can do all those things. Nobody needs a word of knowledge for that.

I don't imagine that it takes a lot of discernment to figure out who the chief demon possessed person in a village is, nor does it take special revelation in how to deal with it. Scripture already gives us the tools for dealing with stuff like that.

According to Curry Blake, neither does it matter what the root of disease or the blocks to healing are. We ought to be prepared in advance to deal with stuff like that, not wait until we get there. If we are in Christ and living as we ought, then we will recognize that stuff when we see it and know how to deal with it as it crosses our paths.

The problem I have with depending on *words of knowledge* is that we are then in the position of depending on the spiritual integrity of the person who is claiming to have the word of knowledge, that they are walking with Christ and filled with the Spirit and that it's not some demon trying to sidetrack us and lead us astray.

The big danger I see in the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement is too much willingness to accept at face value everything that anyone says is from God. It's like if someone dares to question the source when another claims *God told me....*, then they're questioning God and in danger of blaspheming the Holy Spirit instead of exercising discernment.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

And Satan will use wonders and signs to deceive the very elect, if possible, which could only apply is someone were looking to signs and wonders instead of Scripture, for validation of experience.

218 posted on 02/22/2012 4:32:12 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 215 | View Replies]

To: metmom
The evidence of the Spirit filled life is walking in the Spirit, living the life of Christ as outlined in the Bible. It’s producing the fruit of the Spirit in one’s life as stated in Galatians 5. It’s having the mind of Christ in all things.

I agree 100%! Jesus said to judge others by their fruit - the fruit of the Spirit - He never said to judge others by whatever they claimed their "gift" was. In fact, he specifically said to test the spirits to know what sort they are. How else are we to do that than by Holy Scripture and the indwelling Spirit, himself, within us?

219 posted on 02/22/2012 4:46:02 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 203 | View Replies]

To: boatbums; metmom; smvoice
Thanks for your kind post. Note, I’m responding to the assertions and issues . . . not to harrange etc. you.

. . . but it was clear he did not want to even hear anything that might make him think.

Oh? How was that determined? What evidence fueled such an ASSUMPTION . . .an assumption that SOUNDS more than a little judgmental.

Today this couple is divorced, the husband has gone the exact opposite direction from the Lord and no longer has any relationship with Him or other believers. This so-called gift made NO difference in his life and, instead, caused him to lose whatever faith he had.

1. More assumptions.

2. I assume you are aware of many dozens of things that likely contributed to the divorce.

3. I don’t know of ANY SCRIPTURE declaring that the BIBLICAL GIFT of tongues IS a guaranteed preventative against divorce. Do you?

4. What’s the evidence that the BIBLICAL GIFT of tongues “CAUSED him to lose whatever faith he had?”

5. As opposed to the BIBLICAL GIFT of tongues being INSUFFICIENT to prevent divorce and loss of faith?

6. Sounds like a horrific DOUBLE STANDARD, to me.
A) On the one hand, the BIBLICAL GIFT of tongues is castigated as NOTHING and certainly NOTHING GOOD

B) Then in a flash, the BIBLICAL GIFT of tongues is castigated because it was not MIRACULOUS ENOUGH to save a bloke’s faith or marriage. Which is it—is tongues TOO EVIL and NOTHING or NOT MIRACULOUS ENOUGH?

C) And how is it that somehow A BIBLICAL GIFT OF HOLY SPIRIT IS NOW DESCRIBED AS EVIL? That’s a hazardous assertion to ascribe ANYTHING of Holy Spirit to evil or evil to Holy Spirit.

I believe far too much emphasis is placed on this one gift alone - one that Paul said was the least of them –

How many more hundred lines of text is necessary to beat this dead horse? I’VE ALWAYS AGREED THAT SOME FOLKS DO THAT! SHEESH! Argue that point with someone who disagrees with you on it! Sigh. Sounds like there’s an agenda born out of intense emotional pique over the issue out of personal angst from specific relationships. If so, then DEAL WITH IT BIBLICALLY IN THAT CONTEXT! Sheesh!

I’ve been at my church about 6-8 years. I’ve NEVER SEEN NOR HEARD of such a case in this local congregation. If one cropped up, the Pastor would slap it down in a flash.

and the use they had in the first century after Christ is rarely if ever the same use today.

Welllllllll, evidently there’s been a horrifically inadequate job of data collection. However, extending the benefit of the doubt, PLEASE, SHOW US THE STATISTICS AND HOW THE DATA WAS COLLECTED.

Instead it is a club of superiority placed over a believer's head insisting that true worship of God and effectual, fervent prayer is impossible without it.

More of the same dead horse. YES. SOME folks act and sound that way.

However, not in my church. And not in ANY of the healthy Pentecostal/charismatic churches I’ve been in, in the last 50 years. I’ve ran across individuals with such attitudes but in those churches, they got SET RIGHT—RIGHT QUICK.

Well, I say BALONEY! It was NEVER that back then and it definitely is not today. Those who worship God must do so in spirit AND truth. And whatever is not of faith, is sin.

Ok.

AND what AUTHENTIC BIBLICAL GIFT OF TONGUES IS OF FAITH AND BIBLICAL AND EDIFIES THE PERSON AND/OR THE CONGREGATION AND IS OF HOLY SPIRIT—DESERVES TO BE ENCOURAGED, SUPPORTED, APPLAUDED, PRAISED GOD OVER.

Perhaps y’all have a plan to begin doing that which I’m unaware of.

I doubt Holy Spirit is impressed when folks take their personal pique, angst, hang-ups over HIS GIFTS out on HIM AND HIS GIFTS.

220 posted on 02/22/2012 4:54:44 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 216 | View Replies]

To: smvoice

Sorry, but

that’s a wholesale pile of irrational Unbiblical assertions, to me.

It shocks me that anyone would ascribe to it.


221 posted on 02/22/2012 5:00:03 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 217 | View Replies]

To: boatbums; Quix; smvoice; caww
I believe far too much emphasis is placed on this one gift alone - one that Paul said was the least of them - and the use they had in the first century after Christ is rarely if ever the same use today. Instead it is a club of superiority placed over a believer's head insisting that true worship of God and effectual, fervent prayer is impossible without it. Well, I say BALONEY! It was NEVER that back then and it definitely is not today. Those who worship God must do so in spirit AND truth. And whatever is not of faith, is sin.

I see it as a matter of legalism and leading to bondage. In some circles, the legalism is in what you don't do. There is judgment and condemnation if you do certain things (drink, dance, smoke, or chew) and commendation if you don't do those things.

In the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement, its a kind of reverse legalism. You are judged based on what you don't do (don't speak in tongues, don't get *slain in the Spirit*, don't whatever the sign of the day is) and you are commended if you DO do them.

I see that as being under bondage, a yoke of slavery, slavery to perform in certain ways or judgment and condemnation are the result, only from a different perspective.

I refuse to be under anyone's judgment and condemnation based on what they think of my works or signs. My walk with Christ is not to be measured by what someone else thinks God should be doing in my life or style with which I worship or pray. Been there, done that and am NOT interested in going there again.

That is all basing judgment on outward appearances and making people respecters of persons, the have's vs the have not's.

When everyone quits telling me I MUST DO _______ for them to think I am filled with the Spirit, then maybe it'll happen. But don't try to make me fit in THEIR mold.

Galatians 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

Slavery to a law is slavery to a law, no matter whose law or conditions it is.

222 posted on 02/22/2012 5:03:36 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 216 | View Replies]

To: metmom

INDEED.


223 posted on 02/22/2012 5:12:30 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 222 | View Replies]

To: Quix; metmom; boatbums
Quix, I gave you Scripture to back up every thing I posted. The fact that you call it "irrational Unbiblical assertions" is strange. How can Scripture be considered "Unbiblical"?

I wish you God's grace and peace wherever you go in your life. Regards, smvoice

224 posted on 02/22/2012 5:13:20 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing are for an eternity..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 221 | View Replies]

To: smvoice

I did not observe

any significant logical connection

between the Scriptures you offered

and the assertions purportedly made ‘based on’ those Scriptures.

I wish you God’s utmost for your highest and the closest possible relationship with Him and His Truths.


225 posted on 02/22/2012 5:27:40 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 224 | View Replies]

To: metmom; Quix
take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,

The gifts are for the edification of the body, not for spiritual warfare. The word and prayer are for the warfare.

In no place in the book of Ephesians does Paul even mention the word "tongues". When he says we should pray at all times in the Spirit, he IS NOT speaking of the sign gift of tongues. I know this not only because of the context of the passage but because he said in his letter to the Corinthians that not everyone speaks in tongues, not everyone has that gift and that the OTHER gifts are more to be desired because they edify the church.

One more point WRT those that lure people in by a manifestation of miracles of tongues, God said, "Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith." (Jeremiah 23:31) The Bible is our authority, NOT self-proclaimed prophets. And it is the ONLY offensive weapon in our spiritual armory.

226 posted on 02/22/2012 6:35:51 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 212 | View Replies]

To: boatbums

**..BUT Abraham believed God..**

He sure did: “Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country...........so Abram departed.

It was a long trip, probably over 600 miles, done the old fashioned way. He didn’t stop half way (repentance) and call it good. He obeyed the whole gospel, so to speak.

God wasn’t done seeing how strong Abraham’s faith was. After stopping him from slaying Isaac, the Lord said, “for now I know that thou fearest God......”. I’m sure that you agree, that in that context, ‘fearest’ is a form of faith.

The men lowered the man with the palsy through the roof “into the midst of Jesus. And when he SAW their faith, he said unto him, man, thy sins are forgiven thee”.

**Rahab acted upon her faith when she hid Joshua and the other spies in Jericho, but it was by her faith that she was declared righteous.**

Like so many others, Rahab had heard of the amazing stories of how God brought Israel out of Egypt, and how they were recently clobbering any and all opposition. Her faith was that she believed those stories, and acted upon it. When the spies showed up, she BELIEVED that she needed to hide them. AFTER hiding the spies, and HELPING them escape she believed their promise of protection, hanging the scarlet line out of her window.

**The ordinance of baptism is also an act of obedience but faith MUST precede it and it is faith that brings righteousness.**

I would suggest you re-word Mark 16:16 to suit you position: “He that believeth, is saved, and should be baptized....”

**”I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius” (I Cor. 1:14)**

“And I also baptized the household of Stephanus” (which doesn’t say how many ) “besides, I KNOW NOT whether I baptized any other”.

KNOW NOT?!? If he had only baptized a few in his missionary travels, he certainly would not have had any problem remembering who he baptized. I believe he probably baptized hundreds, if not thousands. He didn’t have to baptise very many in Corinth, for one of his first converts, Crispus, was the chief ruler of the synagogue. Paul no doubt ordained him, and Crispus was then performing baptisms, too.

The cases of baptism in Acts are hurried, and without delay, so urgent was the command:

Acts 2:41 About three thousand the first day. Peter and the rest of the apostles were surely left with wrinkled hands and feet after that.

Acts 8:12-17 Philip got right after the Samaritans, baptizing them sometime before Peter (the man with the ‘keys’) and John showed up.

Acts 8:36-39 Philip preached Jesus unto the eunuch, which must have included baptism; for he promptly requested it when coming by a ‘certain water’.

Acts 9:18 Paul believed and was baptized. In 22:16 Paul retells the event; how that Ananias said, “And now why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord”. (It’s GOT to be in his NAME)

Acts 10:47,48 Upon witnessing the pouring out of God’s Spirit on Cornelius and his household, Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord”.

Acts 16:14,15 Paul and Silas baptise Lydia and her household.

Acts 16:30-34 Paul and Silas baptise the keeper of the prison and his household, AFTER speaking unto them ‘the word of the Lord’.

Acts 18 Paul in Corinth (already covered that)

Acts 19:1-7 Paul get’s right down to business RE-baptizing certain disciples in the name of the Lord Jesus.

**You can go on believing it was your water baptism that was the moment you were saved and your sins were remitted, that your faith alone is not sufficient to save you - regardless what Scripture says.**

Acts 2:38; is it from heaven or of men? If you believe it, you’ll obey it, as did those ‘called to be saints’ at Rome: “but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctine which was delivered you”. Paul had told them that they were justified by faith. Yep, they faithfully obeyed that form of doctrine. That’s how we have access into this grace. (remember, Paul had just a few verses earlier, in chp 6, reminded them of being ‘buried with him in baptism’. “Therefore we are buried with him BY baptism into death..”. That’s not talking about Holy Spirit baptism, for the Spirit is life.

**Is eternal life still a gift then if you have to earn it?**

Faith is active or it is non existant. “”..the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.’ Acts 5:32

Also: “And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.” Heb. 5:9

**Do you also believe that you can lose your salvation if you fail to keep all God’s commandments or if you do not confess all your sins before you die?**

The parable of the five wise and five foolish virgins show that some have the light, but do not keep their lamps aflame because of carelessness. The various conditions of the ‘seven churches’ show that devotion is expected, inspite of the different trials and temptations. All are told: “he that overcometh”.

“few there be that find it”.
It does not surprise me that this message is resisted by so many; for it causes separation, and for many the price is too high (family, friends, worldly lusts, ‘a comfort zone’).

I hope this makes my position clearer. Remember....”HE saw their faith..”.
Lord bless


227 posted on 02/22/2012 6:58:04 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 187 | View Replies]

To: Quix
Note, I’m responding to the assertions and issues . . . not to harrange etc. you.

Yet, no matter what I say, it is ridiculed, my motives are questioned, my discernment is doubted, my relationship with Christ is slighted and, although I will not give away the identity of the man and how I know, my observations are trashed. What exactly is your idea of NOT haranguing someone?

You should know by now that I defend you whenever I feel you are being unfairly attacked, do I not? I am also NOT in any way stating I do not believe God continues to work in this world and in our lives nor that he is unable to do miraculous things as HE sees fit. What I am questioning is the stranglehold this ONE thing (tongues) seems to have on some people. God, the power of God, is SO much greater than that! I do not believe those sign gifts are still active today and I have given the Scriptural reasons for why I hold to that. I do not desire to continue to discuss this with anyone who is incapable of looking at it objectively because it appears that, no matter how the argument is framed, it will be taken as a personal attack. I hope you can see that how you are reacting is how some of the Roman Catholics do whenever their church's doctrine is questioned. They are unable to step away and objectively discuss the points in a calm, respectful manner but take personally every criticism. Some of the exact same words and taunting are showing up here. Obviously, it is hitting too close to home. Is it wrong to ask why?

228 posted on 02/22/2012 7:33:34 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 220 | View Replies]

To: Zuriel
**Do you also believe that you can lose your salvation if you fail to keep all God’s commandments or if you do not confess all your sins before you die?**

The parable of the five wise and five foolish virgins show that some have the light, but do not keep their lamps aflame because of carelessness. The various conditions of the ‘seven churches’ show that devotion is expected, inspite of the different trials and temptations. All are told: “he that overcometh”.

So, your answer is, YES, anyone who is saved must obey the commandments of God, do all the works he asks of them, be baptized, go to church services (keep the Sabbath?), participate in the Lord's Supper, give their tithes, did I miss anything? So in other words, salvation is not by grace through faith in your belief system?

Regardless, I know I HAVE eternal life right this very moment, because I have received the gift of eternal life - my redemption - through Jesus Christ's blood and I have been born again into the family of God by faith.

I John 5:4,5
For everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

229 posted on 02/22/2012 8:03:17 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 227 | View Replies]

To: boatbums; Zuriel
Galatians 3:1-9 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

230 posted on 02/22/2012 8:16:07 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 229 | View Replies]

To: metmom; Zuriel
Amen!

Romans 4:1-3
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

231 posted on 02/22/2012 8:26:16 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 230 | View Replies]

To: boatbums; metmom; smvoice; Amityschild; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; GiovannaNicoletta; ...
Yet, no matter what I say, it is ridiculed,

I don’t believe that’s accurate. That’s far too blanket a statement for what I do vs what I don’t do. I do commonly ridicule things I believe to come from the pit.

my motives are questioned,

Please show me where I questioned your MOTIVES. I don’t believe I did. I have asserted that the idea that the Gifts of Holy Spirit described in Acts 2 and I Cor 12-14 have ceased to operate in our era—that THAT IDEA is from the pit. I still stand by that conviction.

That’s far different than questioning your motives.

my discernment is doubted,

Of course. You doubt my discernment wholesale on this topic. How is it righteous for you to doubt my discernment but evil for me to doubt yours? Where is that in Scripture?

my relationship with Christ is slighted

I don’t believe that’s accurate. Please show me where I slighted your relationship with Christ. I don’t believe I said anything about that.

and, although I will not give away the identity of the man and how I know, my observations are trashed.

I have no idea what man you are talking about. I have no idea what observations you are talking about.

If you are talking about excesses regarding tongues and other silliness in Pentecostalism and Charismania—I’ve agreed with all of you about the horrors of such things existing. That agreement with y’all on such scores has evidently earned me MINUS 99.8% (-99.8%) respect from yall. Real sweet.

What exactly is your idea of NOT haranguing someone?

My idea of haranguing folks would involve relentless fierce to harsh personal assaults.

You should know by now that I defend you whenever I feel you are being unfairly attacked, do I not?

I believe that’s true and have always appreciated it. I return the favor as often as I’m aware of the need and feel an ability to do so.

I am also NOT in any way stating I do not believe God continues to work in this world and in our lives nor that he is unable to do miraculous things as HE sees fit.

Sounds good. Yet, on this issue and even in this post, that sounds like talking out of both sides of one’s mouth quite inconsistently. You say that on the one hand and in the next breath or sentence insist that the Holy Spirit gifts in I Cor 12-14 and Acts 2 are not for this day. You can’t logically have it both ways.

Either God sent Holy Spirit to operate as described for the whole church age or He did not. This is not a half pregnant possibility.

There is NOT A SHRED OF SCRIPTURAL indication that God sent Holy Spirit at Pentecost and then changed his mind a few decades later and withdrew Holy Spirit or put His manifestations in a straight-jacket. Not a shred.

1. The world, the flesh and the devil HAVE NOT CHANGED
2. The devil’s methods, goals and strategies have not significantly changed.
3. Mankind HAS NOT CHANGED.
4. GOD HAS CERTAINLY NOT CHANGED.
5. Demonic attacks HAVE NOT CHANGED.
6. Spiritual warfare has essentially NOT CHANGED.
7. Human NEED for God’s supernatural solutions to excruciating human problems HAS NOT CHANGED. 8. The Biblical logic of the Biblical exhortations about how to call for, facilitate, administer, pronounce God’s miraculous solution over human needs HAS NOT CHANGED.

What I am questioning is the stranglehold this ONE thing (tongues) seems to have on some people.

I don’t observe such a person in my mirror.

God, the power of God, is SO much greater than that! I do not believe those sign gifts are still active today and I have given the Scriptural reasons for why I hold to that.

I’ve observed that you’ve thrown some Scriptures on the table as relating to that issue. I find no connection between the Scriptures and your claim of the application of those Scriptures to this issue. None whatsoever.

It is as though you cite

“The Lord is my shepherd. He makes me to lie down in green pastures.”

As the Biblical proof requiring all authentic Christians to sleep in pastures with sheep.

Non-sequitur’s after non-sequitur.

I do not desire to continue to discuss this with anyone who is incapable of looking at it objectively because it appears that, no matter how the argument is framed, it will be taken as a personal attack.

Show me where I’ve done anything of the kind. I don’t recall thinking or saying something like that.

I have noted that I’ve agreed with a lot of what y’all have said and none of you have agreed with a single Biblical thing I’ve said. That doesn’t feel wonderful but I haven’t considered it a personal attack—just something that’s very very sad.

I hope you can see that how you are reacting is how some of the Roman Catholics do whenever their church's doctrine is questioned. They are unable to step away and objectively discuss the points in a calm, respectful manner but take personally every criticism.

Show me a single case where I’ve taken things personally.

My fierceness and zeal are in behalf of Holy Spirit’s operation in this era in these matters. I’m sick to death of Holy Spirit and His authentic manifestations being trashed by the enemy’s schemes. I’ve heard it all my life and I’m sick of it.

It’s not per se persona. I don’t give THAT BIG A RIP what y’all think of me on the matter. I KNOW WHAT’S HOLY SPIRIT AND REAL IN MY LIFE whether anyone else does, or not. NO AMOUNT OF ARGUMENT can change my mind on what’s real BECAUSE GOD HIMSELF HAS BURNED IT INTO THE MARROW OF MY BONES.

What angers me is the insult to Holy Spirit and the catering to the satanic perspective by folks who are otherwise usually open to END TIMES Biblical stuff. I hate seeing satan snooker folks of normally substantive authentic spirituality.

And I CERTAINLY hate to see HOLY SPIRIT QUENCED in direct disobedience to the Scriptural exhortation NOT TO QUENCE HOLY SPIRIT.

But again—it’s no skin off my teeth. Our congregation operates Biblically and will continue to do so—as will I—regardless of what even 100% of everyone else on FR thinks or doesn’t think about such.

It does grieve me and anger me to see Holy Spirit’s efforts so maligned, dismissed, rationalized away, trashed etc. by folks who I think ought to know WAYYYY better. But even then, the anger is felt primarily toward satan for snookering such folks.

Some of the exact same words and taunting are showing up here. Obviously, it is hitting too close to home. Is it wrong to ask why?

Your assumptions on that score just happen to be off-the-wall wrong. Both your analysis and your interpretation about me are WRONG.

232 posted on 02/22/2012 10:19:38 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 228 | View Replies]

To: smvoice

MARK 16:17-18:

17 These miraculous signs will accompany those who believe: They will cast out demons in my name, and they will speak in new languages.[e] 18 They will be able to handle snakes with safety, and if they drink anything poisonous, it won’t hurt them. They will be able to place their hands on the sick, and they will be healed.”


I didn’t write that.
John Wimber didn’t write that.

GOD DID.


233 posted on 02/22/2012 10:23:04 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 217 | View Replies]

To: Quix; smvoice; boatbums
Many of the claims about tongues made by charismatics today cannot be Scripturally supported.

There is no verse in the Bible that states that all believers must speak in tongues. On the contrary, there is 1 Corinthians 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. and 1 Corinthians 12:27-31 27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts.

There is no verse which says that it's a heavenly language as opposed to a normal earthly language or that it's a prayer language which someone is more effective or powerful than praying in one's native tongue.

On the contrary, James 5:13-18 13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again, and heaven gave rain, and the earth bore its fruit.

It's the prayer of a RIGHTEOUS man which is powerful and effective.

There's no verse that even says that speaking in tongues is the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. On the contrary, the evidence of the filling of the Holy Spirit is..... Galatians 5:13-26 13 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

MARK 16:17-18: 17 These miraculous signs will accompany those who believe: They will cast out demons in my name, and they will speak in new languages.[e] 18 They will be able to handle snakes with safety, and if they drink anything poisonous, it won’t hurt them. They will be able to place their hands on the sick, and they will be healed.”

I didn’t write that. John Wimber didn’t write that. GOD DID.

Do you also hold to verse 16 which says? 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. because it IS part of the same passage. And I've noticed that the RC's like to quote 16 and ignore the rest, and the Charismatics like to quote 17 & 18 and ignore 16. I don't recall that I've ever seen anyone hold to ALL the teaching of that discourse. Not to mention that there is quite the controversy as to whether that passage was actually initially part of Mark.

I find it a rather weak support to hang such major doctrines on for these few reasons along with the teachings of other places in Scripture, particularly the instructions concerning the gifts (tongues) by Paul in 1 Corinthians.

234 posted on 02/23/2012 1:49:44 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 233 | View Replies]

To: boatbums; metmom

You folks just don’t realize that our own works are OUR own works. Obedience to God is NOT our own works. Paul ripped the Galations for still trying to keep the Law after being taught the of the new and living way.

The Lord is not going to see your faith if you just sit there and say in your mind, “I accept the Lord”, but refuse his baptism.

Leaving Ur was not Abram’s own works, it was hearing the voice of God AND obeying it. You would have him hearing it and not moving ....at...all. “Blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it”. How do you leave Ur? By just sitting there and saying “I gotta leave UR”? How do you keep Acts 2:38? by just acknowledging it’s in the scriptures?

So, it appears you do fit the re-write of Mark 16:16, “He that believeth, is saved, and should be baptized.”

You ‘don’t move a muscle extremists’ would have everyone stay home, and expect the preacher go and find them, invite themselves in, preach and leave, mission done.


235 posted on 02/23/2012 3:47:35 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 231 | View Replies]

To: metmom

I’m sure the dead horse is very impressed with the continued beatings.


236 posted on 02/23/2012 5:42:27 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 234 | View Replies]

To: Zuriel; boatbums
You folks just don’t realize that our own works are OUR own works. Obedience to God is NOT our own works. Paul ripped the Galations for still trying to keep the Law after being taught the of the new and living way.

Then the Law should have saved because the Law was not man's creation but given from God.

And it couldn't and didn't.

You ‘don’t move a muscle extremists’ would have everyone stay home, and expect the preacher go and find them, invite themselves in, preach and leave, mission done.

When all else fails, engage in hyperbole and make it personal.

237 posted on 02/23/2012 6:25:13 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 235 | View Replies]

To: metmom; smvoice; boatbums; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; ...
REFLECTIONS on the MULTIPLE exchanges:

How many times do I have to say

"I AGREE!"

with something before I'm believed?

WHEN I'm attempting dialogue with folks--particularly BELIEVERS--where the GOAL is mutual Christian understanding and unity--I tend to be very quick to note areas of agreement. I WANT the other side to encouragingly understand right away what common ground we share.

I observe no such similar attitude nor behavior on the other side, in these exchanges.

Evidently mutual understanding and agreement in Christian caring and unity are NOT the goals.

IT FEELS like horse-whip practice is the goal.

Nor even, evidently, is rightly dividing the Word of God the goal.

Evidently AGREEMENT is not the goal of the tirades, rants. Otherwise, my AGREEMENT, where I AGREED, would have been noted and warmly accepted, the FIRST time.

BTW, Hint: I don't horse-whip into agreement very well--if ever.

Evidently relentless hurt, angry, bitter spewing is greatly MORE the goal and need.

Well, IF it helps (research says it does NOT help--it just keeps rehearsing it and keeping it churned up), let it all out. I have a LOT of practice as a whipping post. Get it allll out, quite thoroughly. RANT/SPEW, RANT/SPEW to hearts' content.

Just MAYBE Holy Spirit will be easier to hear on such matters, then.

Obviously the problems on these issues are not with me. There must be earlier, other relationships that are still unhealed, unredeemed, unforgiven . . . where persistent woundedness has occurred and fairly intense bitterness has taken root. The doggedly persistent rants and spews are tenaciously dressed and dripping in bitterness and resentment.

I hope there's no thought that truly Holy Spirit edification and enlightenment spring out of bitterness and resentment. There's issues of spiritual TRUTH MUCH more important than tongues greatly in need of MORE attention.

Obviously, the issue is not even tongues. The pique HAS to be deeper, more fundamental and more viscerally primitive. Otherwise, there'd not be SOOOOOOOO much hurt, irrational, angry emotion attached . . . making reasonable, mutually understanding dialogue soooo impossible.

Sigh.

238 posted on 02/23/2012 6:27:11 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 234 | View Replies]

To: Quix

Your big letters make my mind hurt. Tone it down.


239 posted on 02/23/2012 7:09:28 AM PST by altura
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 238 | View Replies]

To: altura

Hitting

Ctrl-

will solve it regardless.

I like the papyrus font. I don’t like what it does with all caps but I don’t always go back and fix each instance.

BTW, I assume you are aware that your brain has no pain nerves/sensors.


240 posted on 02/23/2012 7:16:48 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 239 | View Replies]

To: altura

And my 65 year old eyes are 4’ from my screen. And, sometimes, I like ALL CAPS and larger fonts just because I enjoy them and the difference.

My Kindle is set on larger font size.

I don’t fuss about the font size you choose to post in.


241 posted on 02/23/2012 7:18:48 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 239 | View Replies]

To: Quix

It is about pride and control. Let’s say in the spirit we have a revelation from Our Lord Jesus Christ. (BTW You have had many of these revelations on FR Quix). We present it with joy on FR. The flesh, we all have, will attack if it has not been revealed to us yet! The key for all of us mature christians is to be quiet and take it to the Lord for confirmation. Flesh cannot receive spiritual revelations with joy.


242 posted on 02/23/2012 8:10:32 AM PST by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 238 | View Replies]

To: Quix

You being attacked means you are on the right path! :) The rapture may be today!


243 posted on 02/23/2012 8:12:16 AM PST by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 238 | View Replies]

To: metmom; smvoice; boatbums; marbren; roamer_1; GiovannaNicoletta; Joya
Given that I observe NO EVIDENCE that the goal in these exchanges is mutual understanding in a spirit of mutual Christian caring and unity, I think I’ll no longer bother much about the areas where I AGREE.

Let folks maintain their death grips on their sugar blinkies of bitterness and resentment until they realize doing so is poisonous to the soul and Christian walk.

On the contrary, there is 1 Corinthians 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. and 1 Corinthians 12:27-3127 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

There is no verse which says that it's a heavenly language as opposed to a normal earthly language or that it's a prayer language which someone is more effective or powerful than praying in one's native tongue.

I don’t find that remotely ACCURATE to the Scripture.

1 Corinthians 14

Intelligibility in Worship
1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.

“. . . does not speak to people but to God.”

Since when was speaking to God NOT considered prayer? I bet that’s news to God! Since when was speaking a language understood only in Heaven, NOT a "Heavenly language?"

As to more powerful . . . it depends . . . I think HEART-FELT AND FAITH-FILLED = power in prayer—whether in tongues or not in tongues.

However, when I’ve run out of words to say in English but still feel an inner press to pray—that there’s more to accomplish in prayer—tongues is the ONLY option—other than literally merely groaning. Thankfully, I HAVE FOUND that praying in tongues CAN be more powerful than my just prior prayers in English.

MANY TIMES a heavier anointing to do spiritual warfare; to pray for the specifics involved HAS come upon me WHILE praying in tongues—though I didn’t start out in such a heavy anointing when I started praying in tongues.

Those who have not had such an experience are not likely to understand or agree with it. Given that I HAVE had such an experience, it would be foolish for me to deny the reality of it.

And, many times, as I’ve prayed quietly in tongues under my breath, Holy Spirit has brought insights, solutions, prophetic understanding of what the underlying problems involved were etc. Do I get those when I’m not praying in tongues? Certainly. However, they’ve tended to come more quickly and more reliably when I’ve been praying in tongues.

Paul clearly indicated God’s attitude on tongues here:

I COR 14:
5 I wish you could all speak in tongues,

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than any of you.

Denial of that the fact of those points from God’s perspective does NOT change God’s perspective.

Sigh.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God . . .

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Do you also hold to verse 16 which says? 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. because it IS part of the same passage.

I think MOST folks hereon know that I believe every word in the whole Bible—including every sentence in Mark 16. It will be interesting to see if the recently discovered first century copy of Mark includes those verses. I accept them as God’s Word regardless. I’m not into picking and choosing which verses are comfortable and convenient for me.

I find it a rather weak support to hang such major doctrines on for these few reasons along with the teachings of other places in Scripture, particularly the instructions concerning the gifts (tongues) by Paul in 1 Corinthians.

Ahhhhhh sooooo . . . unless God hammers something 3-5 times, it shouldn’t be considered God’s Word requiring obedience? Maybe I’m beginning to see part of the problem. Again:

Is it your impression that demons and demonic demonstrations have been on vacation the last 2000 years?

Is it your impression that Christians have been expected to battle demonic forces IN THEIR FLESH?

Is it your impression that Christians are called to wage war with principalities & powers in high places spiritually neutered with their portion of Holy Spirit's miraculous potency in the closet or 'gone fishing?'

That's definitely NOT my Biblical understanding by a great long shot.

And that's DEFINITELY NOT BEEN MY EXPERIENCE either. It has frequently taken all the praying in tongues, praying for healing; praying for supernatural assistance of various types etc. to do whatever God was calling me to do in various situations.

My understanding of Scripture is that tongues are for believers in some respects/contexts and unbelievers in others.

PAUL’S INSTRUCTIONS FOR
NORMAL CHURCH
MEETING & CONGREGATIONAL LIFE
IN THE CHURCH AGE
ARE IN
I COR 12-14:

New Living Translation (©2007)
So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers.

.

That sounds like for unbelievers, period, I assume many would think. Not so fast. Stay tuned.

I Cor 13:
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

.

Folks who point to I Cor 13 as a rationalization for Cessationism must not have their thinking caps on. For their shabby argument to hold a drop of water, they’d have to consider that INCOMPLETE KNOWLEDGE HAS ALSO ALREADY PASSED AWAY. . . . that we fully know GOD AND EACH OTHER 100% thoroughly and completely. Cue laughing gif.



1 Corinthians 14

Intelligibility in Worship
1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.

.

Hmmmmmmm Is Paul contradicting himself? Not at all.

He’s merely noting that when one is speaking to God only—e.g. when praying in tongues—ONLY GOD UNDERSTANDS. “No one” else understands—which SHOULD take care of the nonsense that tongues CAN ONLY BE known languages of earth.

So, one verse is emphasizing one type of tongue AND INTERPRETATION and/or a known language in front of unbelievers.

And the other verse is emphasizing a different operation of tongues praying alone to God.

I Cor 14:
4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves {NOT UNBELIEVERS},

.

Here we see a verse again emphasizing tongues edifying one’s self—a BELIEVER.

but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[b] but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,[c] unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

.

Here we see again . . . clearly . . . for those with eyes to see and ears to hear—PAUL EQUATES the gift of prophecy prophesying in a group with the gifts of tongues AND INTERPRETATION in a group. This passage seems to emphasize tongues and interpretation as well as prophecy edifying both believers and unbelievers.

Sooooo when does tongues help an unbeliever? WHEN there’s interpretation and the unbeliever’s ‘mail is read.’ It also happens when an unbeliever hears a tongues that is his own language and he knows that the speaker does not know his language. This happened with a friend of mine in 3 different Native American tribes on one trip. She just thought she was praying quietly in tongues. Turns out, according to old timers who came up to her afterwards, in each case, she was presenting a summary of the Gospel story in the more ancient and more formal version of each tribal language.

Evidently she should have told the unsaved hearers to ignore the Gospel she’d just shared with them because she was a woman and speaking in tongues. /sarc

Dr Walter Martin—not normally given to applauding such things . . . was touched by a case involving his throat Dr. The Dr had received a message in tongues and interpretation by a couple in a house church prayer meeting about the DR becoming a missionary to Armenia, I think it was. Everything the message in tongues and interpretation shared was true or came true over the following months, to the letter . . . and gave the Dr the confidence to follow his leading to become a powerful missionary to Armenia.

Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

.

Again—what is the purpose of the tongues—prayer alone to God or ministry to others and the group? Behave accordingly. God uses each accordingly.

13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

.

That should silence the folks who seemingly mindlessly claim that ALL TONGUES MUST INVOLVED KNOWN LANGUAGES AND INTERPRETATION. Paul just noted that HIS MIND WAS UNFRUITFUL. IT is his spirit that is being built up, edified by Holy Spirit’s conveying the meaning to God via a sequence of sounds Paul does not know as a language.

15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer,[d] say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. {BOY IS THAT AN INCONVENIENT VERSE for cessationists! Sigh} 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

{OF COURSE. As explained above}

20 Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21 In the Law it is written:

“With other tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,
says the Lord.”[e]

{INDEED. When they won’t listen to relatively plain Scripture, don’t expect them to listen to sound teaching!}

22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

.

See my explanations above. They should be clear enough for those earnestly seeking God’s clarity on such matters.

At this time, they are not necessary for the body of Christ.

REALLY? Who said? The Bible doesn’t say that.

Logic doesn’t say that.

Mankind hasn’t changed.
Satan hasn’t Changed
God hasn’t changed!

Given the lawlessness and massive demonic forces unleashed uniquely in the END TIMES, THE GIFTS OF HOLY SPIRIT ARE DESPERATELY NEEDED FAR MORE NOW THAN EVER IN HISTORY—INCLUDING IN THE ACTS 2 ERA.

All our blessings and inheritances are in the heavenlies. Not on things on this earth.

Where’d you get that notion? Not from Scripture! It’s not in there.

Scripture teaches we are to walk IN HIS SPIRIT, IN HIS BLOOD, IN HIS ABUNDANT LIFE, IN HIS HEALING, IN HIS EMPOWERING, IN HIS SUPERNATURAL GUIDANCE, IN HIS SUPERNATURAL PROVISION . . . SILVER AND GOLD HAVE I NONE—IN THE NAME OF JESUS—GET UP AND WALK . . . THESE SIGNS SHALL FOLLOW THEM THAT BELIEVE . . .

!NOW!

That Scripture does NOT SAY “shall follow them that believe after they get to Heaven.”

Who needs such in heaven??? Sigh.
There’s no need for healing there!
There’s no need for supernatural provision there.
There’s no need for a banquet in the presence of our enemies there.
There’s no need for supernatural guidance there.

244 posted on 02/23/2012 8:32:00 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 234 | View Replies]

To: marbren

BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE WORD OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE WAYS OF THE LORD.

Guess I haven’t paid that much attention to those dynamics and that principle.

It’s probably good that I haven’t paid much attention to such things in terms of God’s successes over my flesh sufficiently to see HIS insights. LOL. Though sometimes the encouragement is a good thing!

I must confess, you are absolutely correct. The flesh cannot receive things of the Spirit with joy—particularly unless and until it’s been wholesale brought under submission and subjection to the LORDSHIP of Jesus The Christ.

And, obviously, you are correct about !!!CONTROL!!!, too.

BTW, Thanks for your humbling, kind words.


245 posted on 02/23/2012 8:36:56 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 242 | View Replies]

To: Quix
There is a verse somewhere that says we should only reveal spiritual truth twice to a person and then if they do not understand give it to the Lord and move on. This is the only one I found so far but the context may be wrong.

Job 40:5 (KJV) Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.

Einstein also had a neat quote about foolishness in using preconceived notions to right away reject and attack a possible truth without considering it.

246 posted on 02/23/2012 9:19:37 AM PST by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: Quix
Here it is. I did not find the Einstein quote BTW.

Titus 3:9-11 (KJV) 9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Now, of course, the Holy Spirit may want us to go back more than twice. Keep doing what the Spirit leads you to do Quix. God Bless You! BTW all the internet rapture watchmen are under attack because time is so short.

Rapture may be today!:)

247 posted on 02/23/2012 9:39:26 AM PST by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 245 | View Replies]

To: Quix

LOL...


248 posted on 02/23/2012 10:00:49 AM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 241 | View Replies]

To: marbren

Of course you are right.

Particularly about heretics.

However, I don’t tend to label folks such without their working very hard at earning the label over a considerable time and across either a horrific few or substantial number of serious unBiblical junk.

And, I still believe that God is looking for Biblical ‘excuses’ to save people instead of Biblical ‘excuses’ to damn them.

AND, MERCIFULLY, HE LOOKS AT THE HEART more than our intellectualizations.

PRAISE GOD FOR THAT.

You are a great treasure, Bro.


249 posted on 02/23/2012 10:31:48 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 247 | View Replies]

To: Iscool

LOL...


What? What?

Oh.

LOL.

LUB


250 posted on 02/23/2012 10:32:39 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 248 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 151-200201-250251-300 ... 901-919 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson