Saul And The Charismatics...

http://billrandles.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/saul-and-the-charismatics/ ^ | 02-14-12 | Bill Randles

[caww]

The miracles recorded in the book of Acts are simply not being reproduced in churches today as was done by the Apostles.

[caww]

missing all the Scriptural examples and teachings of that truth.

The thread evidences this is so. Though at what point does one discern it goes beyond simply "missing"...and it something else altogether?

There's enough evidence that some of the posters are stating exactly what they're repeatedly instructed to do and say from within the Pentecostal/Charismatic movements when confronted, (with the truth), on their "beliefs" and "practices".

So again at one point is it no longer seeking the truth of the scriptures but rather in opposition and rebellion of?

[presently no screen name]

Some of us look at afflictions and infirmities as the refiner’s fire.

To burn up what? Something not from God? Wrong thinking? Unbelief? What's the fire burning up? We are all burning up something in our lives.

There are lessons learned through affliction which I cannot imagine can be learned any other way.

Yes, that God is right and man is wrong.

The problem with the name it and claim it theology that everyone should be prosperous and healthy, simply does not fit with us learning to depend on God for everything.

If that it their theology - what part do you think they aren't leaning on God for? If they got prosperity - where would it come from? If they regained health, Who did that come from?

Perhaps, if you drop the slur 'name it/claim it' and put in Truth - Read It and Believe It - it might be of value.

Pentecostals for the most part see affliction as something to be delivered from, not something to overcome.

I thought you said they weren't depending on God? WHO delivers someone from afflictions? Are they not overcoming their affliction in believing HE will deliver them from it?

Expecting health and wealth as our *right* is nothing more than entitlement mentality which has crept into and corrupted the church, the thinking being that since we are God’s children, we have the RIGHT to claim (demand) deliverance from anything unpleasant or uncomfortable.

Demand it? Is that the way you see it? Do children of kings DEMAND anything or is it their *right* as children of the king?

and just receive it with thanks KNOWING who they are?

because I am free in Christ. It will NOT stop me from living my life.

And that's a very good thing. You didn't give in or up. I say that's the attitude of one that says it may not look like I can do it but I don't have to 'see' that I can do it first, to believe I CAN DO IT. You did it despite any pre conceive obstacle that's in the natural. And, IIRC, it was smooth sailing to and from.

Deuteronomy 28:3-14 3 You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country. 4 The fruit of your womb will be blessed, and the crops of your land and the young of your livestock—the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks. 5 Your basket and your kneading trough will be blessed. 6 You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out. 7 The LORD will grant that the enemies who rise up against you will be defeated before you. They will come at you from one direction but flee from you in seven. 8 The LORD will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. The LORD your God will bless you in the land he is giving you. 9 The LORD will establish you as his holy people, as he promised you on oath, if you keep the commands of the LORD your God and walk in obedience to him. 10 Then all the peoples on earth will see that you are called by the name of the LORD, and they will fear you. 11 The LORD will grant you abundant prosperity—in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your ground—in the land he swore to your ancestors to give you. 12 The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. 13 The LORD will make you the head, not the tail. If you pay attention to the commands of the LORD your God that I give you this day and carefully follow them, you will always be at the top, never at the bottom. 14 Do not turn aside from any of the commands I give you today, to the right or to the left, following other gods and serving them.

It's amazing the things we do for our children while some think God does less for HIS.

[presently no screen name]

There are a few on FR who can only post pictures and cartoons mocking what someone because they have nothing else with which to comment.

And when they do, they are told they are wrong. I'll say a picture says a thousands words and even that is MOCKED by some who are now clamoring for words so they can refute.

Quix, Good job and smart move, IMO.

[presently no screen name]

Let me ask you, PNSN, do you believe that Christians have a responsibility to test or hold to a standard those that claim to speak for Christ to see if they are from God?

Silly question, bb. OF COURSE! And that includes those who claim to speak for Christ and says HE causes sickness.

Can you tell me what your interpretation of the gift of “discernment” is for?

What gift? I thought you believed the gift shop is CLOSED!

[presently no screen name]

My Bible tells me I am complete in Christ. And was the moment I was saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

So does mine! But my Bible says 'my spirit' is what is saved and sealed NOT MY BODY!! My body isn't even allowed in heaven. And I'm to renew my mind.

What does your bible say - your body, soul and spirit are complete in Him?

[metmom]

I agree with her sentiments.

There’s also this from AB Simpson, who was the founder of the Christian and Missionary Alliance. He also had his share of health issues and did receive a healing of them but his perspective is one we would do all to keep in mind.

This is a link to a short sermon (I think) of his and a poem he wrote.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/simpson-ab_himself.html

HIMSELF by A. B. Simpson

Once it was the blessing, Now it is the Lord;
Once it was the feeling, Now it is His Word.
Once His gifts I wanted, Now the Giver own;
Once I sought for healing, Now Himself alone.

Once ‘twas painful trying, Now ‘tis perfect trust;
Once a half salvation, Now the uttermost.
Once ‘twas ceaseless holding, Now He holds me fast;
Once ‘twas constant drifting, Now my anchor’s cast.

Once ‘twas busy planning, Now ‘tis trustful prayer;
Once ‘twas anxious caring, Now He has the care.
Once ‘twas what I wanted, Now what Jesus says;
Once ‘twas constant asking, Now ‘tis ceaseless praise.

Once it was my working, His it hence shall be;
Once I tried to use Him, Now He uses me.
Once the power I wanted, Now the Mighty One;
Once for self I labored, Now for Him alone.

Once I hoped in Jesus, Now I know He’s mine;
Once my lamps were dying, Now they brightly shine.
Once for death I waited, Now His coming hail;
And my hopes are anchored, Safe within the vail.

[metmom]

I would like to see the Scriptural support for all believers speaking in tongues, that it is THE evidence of being filled/baptized (whatever you wish to call it) in the Holy Spirit, that holy laughter is of God, that being slain in the Spirit is of God, that shaking and making animal noises is of God, that healing is guaranteed to everyone and that everyone in the NT was healed, that healing ministries are mandated in Scripture........

[metmom]

For someone to come along and say things such as 'sickness can be from God' needs their oil checked badly!! Gee, I wonder if they are making money saying such things!

Can you say Job? Paul? The man born blind?

Sickness may not be directly inflicted on us by God Himself, it may indeed all be of the enemy, or just happenstance, but God allows it and God uses is and in that manner, it is from God as an instrument of correction and maturity in His sovereign will.

God's will is for us to be mature in Christ, to take every thought captive, to be conformed to the likeness of His Son who learned obedience through His suffering. (Heb 5:8).

I think God is far more concerned with out heart than our bodies. It's we who are so consumed with our own personal comfort levels that we obsess about it and judge God's favor in our lives over what we have in the terms of health and wealth.

When I got saved, I wasn't immediately whisked to heaven so while I did receive and do have my salvation secure for me in the heavenlies, I still have not experienced the fulness of what is mine by right.

And yes, healing is part of the atonement, and I have that by right as well, but may not experience that until I experience the fulness of my salvation when I die.

I can't go to heaven on demand even though eternal life is mine. Why should I expect to have healing on demand?

I don't know if I got what I'm trying to say across clearly at all, but just because we possess something in the heavenly, doesn't mean I experience it in totality in the earthly.

I have to die yet for my salvation to be completed.

[presently no screen name]

I can't go to heaven on demand even though eternal life is mine. Why should I expect to have healing on demand?

DEMAND?! You still calling it that to suite an agenda? It must make you feel better. A kings kid knows what he's entitled to - he makes no demands to get it. Maybe as a baby they do but when they are told otherwise, they conform. I guess co-heir takes a back seat for some while saying they are following Scripture.

Eternal life begins here, it's in those who have the Spirit of God within.

[CynicalBear]

>>I don't know anyone who has gone to him and if some want to give him money<<

Well let me introduce one to you. I began going to Hinn’s church just after he took over from his disgraced father in law. There was no better at teaching scripture than he was. Having grown up in the Middle East he had a perspective on local customs and history that lent understanding to Biblical history.

It took about two years for him to begin to “leave his first calling” and drift into the healing concept. It was at that point that most in the church could sense the Holy Spirit leave. You ask about the “thousands”? I can personally attest to “thousands” who, with full faith, went up to “get healed” and not once did we witness a true healing. It became all about him. I can attest without reservation that Hinn is a charlatan who measures his success by the amount of money he brings in.

At one point he tearfully confessed to have gone off track and for about six months was back to Biblical teaching but then again drifted off and hasn’t been anything but a charlatan since.

[Quix]

INDEED.

[Quix]

It’s amazing that some folks seem to fail to see how often I do that.

[Quix]

WELL PUT.

And THAT poison tends to be insidious, pervasive and tenaciously entrenched.

[Quix]

I think

Curry Blake is right that God heals many who don’t have faith for their own healing.

HOWEVER, WHEN

folks ENERGETICALLY PUT THEIR FAITH IN *FAILURE* OF HEALING PRAYERS—PUT THEIR FAITH SOLIDLY IN A NEGATIVE OUTCOME, they TEND to get just that . . . at least until they adjust their attitude—particularly when that attitude is rooted in bitterness and resentment against God and man.

God has indicated to some even that some will not make Heave because they failed to FORGIVE GOD for not running the universe and their lives according to their sensibilities and constructions on reality.

[Quix]

WARNING: BRAZENLY UNBIBLICAL UNTRUTH:

The miracles recorded in the book of Acts are simply not being reproduced in churches today as was done by the Apostles.

.

.

IGNORING
THE
EVIDENCE
IN SCRIPTURE AND IN LIFE
IS:

[Quix]

Some of us have better Biblical reading comprehension

as well as a capacity to learn from our experiences with God.

[Quix]

LOL. THX.

[Quix]

[Quix]

AHHHHHHHH
SO!
Y'ALL'S
"TRUTH"
IS EITHER
ONE
UNMITIGATED
EXTREME
OR
THE
OTHER!

.