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Darwinism the root of the culture of death: expert
LifeSiteNews ^ | 2/17/12 | Kathleen Gilbert

Posted on 02/17/2012 4:17:50 PM PST by wagglebee

WASHINGTON, February 17, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - What do Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger, “father of the sexual revolution” Alfred Kinsey, Lenin, and Hitler have in common?

All these pioneers of what some call the culture of death rooted their beliefs and actions in Darwinism - a little-known fact that one conservative leader says shouldn’t be ignored.

Hugh Owen of the Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation told an audience on Capitol Hill before the March for Life last month that the philosophical consequences of Darwinism has “totally destroyed many parts of our society.”

Owen pointed to Dr. Josef Mengele, who infamously experimented on Jews during the Holocaust, Hitler himself, and other Nazi leaders as devotees of Darwinism who saw Nazism and the extermination of peoples as nothing more than a way “to advance evolution.” Darwinism was also the “foundation” of Communist ideology in Russia through Vladimir Lenin, said Owen, who showed a photograph of the only decorative item found on Lenin’s desk: an ape sitting on a pile of books, including Darwin’s “Origin of Species,” and looking at a skull.

“Lenin sat at this desk and looked at this sculpture as he authorized the murder of millions of his fellow countrymen, because they stood in the way of evolutionary progress,” Owen said. He also said accounts from communist China report that the first lesson used by the new regime to indoctrinate religious Chinese citizens was “always the same: Darwin.”

In America, the fruit of Darwinism simply took the form of eugenics, the belief that the human race could be improved by controlling the breeding of a population.

Owen said that Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger, a prominent eugenicist, promoted contraception on the principles of evolution. “She saw contraception as the sacrament of evolution, because with contraception we get rid of the less fit and we allow only the fit to breed,” he said. Sanger is well-known to have supported the spread of “birth control,” a term she coined, as “the process of weeding out the unfit.”

Alfred Kinsey, whose “experiments” in pedophilia, sadomasochism, and homosexuality opened wide the doors to sexual anarchy in the 20th century, also concluded from Darwinist principles that sexual deviations in humans were no more inappropriate than those found in the animal kingdom. Before beginning his sexual experiments, Kinsey, also a eugenicist, was a zoologist and author of a prominent biology textboook that promoted evolution.

Owen, a Roman Catholic, strongly rejected the notion that Christianity and the Biblical creation account could be reconciled with Darwinism. He recounted the story of his own father, who he said was brought up a devout Christian before losing his faith when exposed to Darwinism in college. He was to become the first ever Secretary General of the International Planned Parenthood Federation.

“The trajectory that led from Leeds and Manchester University to becoming Secretary General of one of the most evil organizations that’s ever existed on the face of the earth started with evolution,” said Owen.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: abortion; communism; cultureofdeath; darwinism; deatheaters; eugenics; fascism; gagdadbob; lifehate; moralabsolutes; onecosmosblog; prolife
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To: BrandtMichaels; MrB; allmendream; YHAOS; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; wagglebee

I’d be interested in the useful prediction of what the next step in the evolution of mankind is going to be.

And not the AGW kind of nonsense of prediction, that *change* is going to happen. Anyone can claim that.

If science it going to prove itself *useful* then it ought to be able to PREdict the next change, not observe it and claim *See, we were right. Change happened just like we predicted*.

Well, DUH!!! Of course change is going to happen.


251 posted on 02/24/2012 6:33:50 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
As ridiculous as asking a physicist WHICH radioactive atom will decay at what time.

What is predictable is that if I subject a population of bacteria to ten different stresses, the genome of the population will change such that the stressful conditions become optimal or normal conditions.

Biologists cannot predict WHAT EXACT mutations will arise - but we know that they will - and that those variations that arise that act to reduce the stress on the organism will predominate in subsequent generations.

Moreover evolutionary science demonstrated is predictive utility rather dramatically recently when the existence of a fish-tetrapod transition was predicted to be at a particular location at a particular time period - and low and behold - they found “Tiktaalik”.

You say “Well DUH!!!! Of course change (in DNA/living organisms) is going to happen”.

Because evolution is defined as a change in the genetic makeup of a population you may as well have said...

Well DUH!!!! Of course evolution is going to happen.

What would possibly stop it? Where is the mechanism to keep DNA exactly the same so that adaptive changes don't arise and predominate?

252 posted on 02/24/2012 6:41:58 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: metmom

The funny thing is that he gets so incensed when we call out the fact that the term “evolution” is being conflated to mean both “change over time” (which is correct), and

goo-to-you, particles-to-people, molecules-to-man “evolution”.

The conflation is on purpose. It hides the illogic of
“Given: species change in response to enviromental pressure.
Conclusion: goo-to-you is true”

Also, wrt your “next step in the evolution of mankind” - that assumption MUST be addressed, because it totally devalues what we are NOW as “inferior” to some future superman, and invariably leads to programs of “guided evolution” or eugenics.


253 posted on 02/24/2012 6:43:04 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MrB
Evolution is a process. Common descent of species is a result of that process.

Erosion is a process. Mountains and valleys are a result of that process. Erosion and Mountains cannot be said to be the same thing - although they ARE related.

Moreover we are still discussing HOW adaptive change in response to environmental pressures is carried out - isn't it you whose described model needed all useful variations of DNA that ever existed and ever will exist within a population to be put into the primordial “kind”? Have you any idea how impossible that is using actual real and non-miraculous molecules?

Evolution changes. It adapts. Adaptation to new conditions doesn't make one “superior” and the previous adaptations to previous conditions “inferior”. Evolution doesn't unambiguously improve things. A race horse is not fast - and just as good as a normal horse at everything else - a race horse is fast at the EXPENSE of sturdy legs that don't break and thick skin that doesn't crack.

Once again, Eugenics is to Evolution as Socialism is to Free-Markets. Both see a highly productive system with millions of individual actors pursuing their own self interest - and think that centralized authority had better crack down on that right away - because they know better than “the market” what is desired.

Eugenics could work in a totalitarian society to breed smarter humans, or stronger humans, or healthier longer lived humans - but always at the expense of something else.

Despite the empty promises of Socialism and Eugenics “There is no such thing as a free lunch.”.

254 posted on 02/24/2012 6:52:35 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream

State it or deny it:

Observed “evolution”, ie, change in species,
proves goo-to-you “evolution”.

Simple enough. Yes or No. Nothing else.


255 posted on 02/24/2012 6:58:23 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: metmom; BrandtMichaels; MrB; YHAOS; betty boop; wagglebee; P-Marlowe; xzins; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg; ..
I’d be interested in the useful prediction of what the next step in the evolution of mankind is going to be.

If God does not intervene - but I am confident He will - man will continue the practice of killing off what he considers to be sub-human (untermensch) - those he considers to be unfit (eugenics) under the auspices of a woman's right to choose. How few children with Down's Syndrome are allowed to live?

Discarding the will of God, man will manipulate DNA in an effort to improve the human race (eliminate birth defects, tendency to disease, etc.) This may be spurred by women insisting on a perfect baby every time and suing when their expectations are not met. For lack of tort reform, a defective baby may already be seen as a "get rich quick" opportunity via a wrongful birth lawsuit.

If God does not intervene - but I am confident He will - the optimum child for the "civilized world" could ultimately be the product of a test tube (like the movie Gattica) - where "natural born" babies are considered to be sub-human.

No, if God does not intervene - but I am confident He will - evolution will not matter. In the name of ridding the world of disease and improving inheritable traits such as intelligence and beauty and avoiding lawsuits - mankind will continue down the road of eugenics by another name.

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

256 posted on 02/24/2012 7:08:14 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: MrB; wagglebee; trisham; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; GodGunsGuts; Fichori; tpanther; Gordon Greene; ...
Also, wrt your “next step in the evolution of mankind” - that assumption MUST be addressed, because it totally devalues what we are NOW as “inferior” to some future superman, and invariably leads to programs of “guided evolution” or eugenics.

Which gets us right back to the heart of this thread.

257 posted on 02/24/2012 7:08:57 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Alamo-Girl

And notice how *useful* that all is.

Well said, sister.....


258 posted on 02/24/2012 7:11:22 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Outstanding post!
259 posted on 02/24/2012 7:20:28 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: MrB
Simple enough. Nothing “proves” anything in science. So NO.

Absolutely not! Observed evolution, the change within species, and occasionally the branching off of a new species (which also has been directly observed) does not prove “goo to you” abiogenesis of non living “goo” to living organism - or of a “goo” one cell organism to mankind.

However the observed rate of change is both necessary and sufficient to explain a 2% difference in genetic DNA between two separated populations over some six million years.

260 posted on 02/24/2012 7:21:56 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: MrB

Similarly, observed erosion doesn’t “prove” that mountains formed over millions of years via erosion.

However the observed rate of erosion is both necessary and sufficient to explain the formation of mountains over millions of years.


261 posted on 02/24/2012 7:27:36 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Alamo-Girl
The movie Gattica was amazingly accurate in that the brother who was natural born had a heart defect - but could out-swim, outfight, and out-think his lackluster “test tube” brother - who was bred to be “nonviolent”.

Like Socialism to Free-Markets, Eugenics thinks they know better than “the market” what is desired and desirable - but they are wrong. Humans bred to be “nonviolent” will simply not have the same drive to succeed as a normal “violent” human.

Moreover that is the future that a Eugenic State would want - humans bred for compliance and nonviolence.

That would hardly be a “superior” human. We Americans would eat their lunch, drink their milkshake, and laugh at their nonviolent response.

262 posted on 02/24/2012 7:32:58 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: metmom
Thank you so much for your encouragement, dear sister in Christ!
263 posted on 02/24/2012 7:51:55 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: wagglebee
Thank you so much for your encouragement, dear brother in Christ!
264 posted on 02/24/2012 7:52:38 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: allmendream; wagglebee; metmom; BrandtMichaels; MrB; YHAOS; betty boop; P-Marlowe; xzins; Quix; ...
Moreover that is the future that a Eugenic State would want - humans bred for compliance and nonviolence.

That would hardly be a “superior” human. We Americans would eat their lunch, drink their milkshake, and laugh at their nonviolent response.

You give America too much credit.

The liberal Democrats in America are always seeking to control citizen's lives from womb to tomb - what they eat, what they do, what they think, the words they use, etc.

Jeepers they used political pressure through the CDC to the local doctors to gather information on guns in the homestead!

Give them a genetic manipulation that can make men docile and they'll sell it under the auspices of reducing crime.

The Gattica world can happen right here with liberals in control.

265 posted on 02/24/2012 8:05:39 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: allmendream

If you are a strict uniformitarian.
People studying this more closely have abandoned uniformitarianism.


266 posted on 02/24/2012 8:14:22 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Alamo-Girl
I agree.

Those who believe in State power don't care that it is ineffective or even counterproductive. State power is an end in and of itself that they desire, despite the total lack of any success in central planning over the benign self interest of millions of individuals in a Free Market.

My point is the society that uses eugenics to produce what it thinks is a “superior” human being - will be overcome, conquered, and disposed of by us regular humans - who are more independent adaptable violent and unpredictable; and thus in the “market” of human interaction - actually superior.

Like releasing a prized race horse population into an area where there is a wild horse population. On the racetrack the racehorse might well be “superior”. In the rough and tumble world of the open plains - the wild horses are going to eat the race horses’ grass, take the race horses’ mares, and show no respect to the race horses’ foals.

Eugenics (i.e. selective breeding) of horses didn't produce a “superior” horse - just a faster one (racehorse), a stronger one (draft horse), and a more aggressive one (war horses). None of the above would be able to successfully compete with a wild horse in the wild.

267 posted on 02/24/2012 8:23:54 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
Indeed. All the more reason we conservatives need to stop or awaken the liberals now.
268 posted on 02/24/2012 8:45:26 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: metmom
Who would I rather have as a neighbor? Mengele or the Amish?

You’re asking me? ( ^8 }

269 posted on 02/24/2012 9:54:25 AM PST by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: YHAOS

It’s really a rhetorical question.

Well, it SHOULD be a rhetorical question......

For most of us, it’s a no brainer.


270 posted on 02/24/2012 9:57:27 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: MrB; allmendream
He (allmendream) keeps hammering this as a mantra

To what end we can only surmise, but absent of evidence to the contrary, we must believe the mantra’s primary function is to trumpet the triumph of materialist thought over Judeo-Christian tradition. The Scientific Method, as a method of material fact-finding, has proven itself superior to any other known technique, but it cannot consequentially be inferred that all of Western Civilization’s culture and wisdom is to be found in a Science textbook. The horror that became known as “Eugenics” stands as testimony to the deficiencies of Materialism.

271 posted on 02/24/2012 10:00:28 AM PST by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: metmom
"It’s really a rhetorical question."

I know ( ^8 }

272 posted on 02/24/2012 10:02:49 AM PST by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: metmom; MrB
I’d rather have the human creationist than the inhuman scientist.

The “inhuman scientist” is graphic evidence of the school of thought that “Creationism is useless” propelling the belief that one can solve the world’s problems by burying one’s nose in a science textbook.

273 posted on 02/24/2012 10:06:14 AM PST by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: YHAOS
If you want to gain knowledge about the physical world - the scientific method is aces - nothing else comes close.

The Judeo-Christian tradition is perfectly compatible, and actually quite congruent, with the scientific method. What is not compatible or congruent with the scientific method is presupposition of supernaturalistic means to explain physical phenomena.

Eugenics is as warped a response to knowledge of DNA inheritance as Socialism is in response to knowledge of Free Markets. Both see a highly productive system of individuals acting in their own best interests and want to quash it under central authority - thinking that they know better what “the market” wants.

Actual knowledge of “materialistic” biology discounts Eugenics/selective breeding of humans; because it is inconsistent with any actual positive results.

Despite the empty promises of both Socialism and Eugenics: There is no such thing as a free lunch.

274 posted on 02/24/2012 10:10:00 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Alamo-Girl; wagglebee; Mad Dawg; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; ...
The Gattica world can happen right here with liberals in control.

A slight correction . . . The Gattica world IS BEING BROUGHT ABOUT as we type, right here and everywhere on the planet with the satanic Marxist globalists thoroughly in charge for lo these many decades on the carnal plain. They are just bringing it forward more OVERTLY, more on the surface, more brazenly in public.

Now their sponsored rock bands are brazenly overtly worshiping satan.

Why Lucifer/Satan? Musicians now openly performing to or about the Evil One!!
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread811284/pg1

First video:

KANYE WEST--Devil In A New Dress (OFFICIAL VIDEO)i DO NOT RECOMMEND WATCHING IT--particularly without the sound being OFF--I just offer it as documentation of how far satanism is being already overtly pushed in our culture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D55rDDvu3n4

2nd Video:
Jay-Z - Lucifer

Lucifer glorified in the chorus. Again--I don't encourage watching or listening . . . just for documentation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnedARQGOPM

@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@

Their own quotes in their own words & publications from this collection here, illustrate such:

http://twoday.net/static/omega/files/quotes_from_people_who_consider_us_subjects.htm

14."To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism, and religious dogmas." - Brock Adams, Director UN Health Organization

18. "No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation." David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations

4. "In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all." Strobe Talbot, President Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th, l992.

8.The truth of the matter is that you do have those standby provisions, and the statutory emergency plans are there whereby you could, in the name of stopping terrorism, apprehend, invoke the military, and arrest Americans and hold them in detention camps." U.S. Representative Henry Gonzalez, August 29, 1994

11. "The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent." Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets.

13."It was not my intention to doubt that the doctrine of the Illuminati and the principles of Jacobinism had not spread to the United States. On the contrary, no one is more satisfied of this fact than I am." The Writings of George Washington 1798 letter.

15. "We are not going to achieve a New World Order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money." - Arthur Schlesinger Jr., 'The CFR Journal Foreign Affairs', August 1975.

101. "Every child in American who enters school with an allegiance toward our elected officials, toward our founding fathers, toward our institutions, toward the preservation of this form of government... all of this proves the children are sick, because the truly well individual is one who has rejected all of those things and is what I would call the true international child of the future".
...
Chester M. Pierce, Harvard University psychiatrist, at a 1973 International Education Seminar, as quoted in "Educating For The New World Order" by B.K. Eakman

105."In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, it was planned that way". Teddy Roosevelt

129."It's terrible to have to say this. World population must be stabilized and to do that we must eliminate 350,000 people per day" Jacques-Yves Cousteau, oceanographer and humanist, The UNESCO Courier, Nov. 1991, page 13

130."The commitment of government to deal with the population issue is of course essential...There are many ways to make the death rate Increase." Robert McNamara, Secretary of Defense, New Solidarity, March 30, 1981

100."The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists". J. Edgar Hoover, former head of the FBI

. . . Crystal Earth Papers Says that chaotic events will result in the replacement of current governmental and political structures. New values will be instituted for mankind, including cooperation, collaboration, and unification on behalf of the "Spirit of the Earth." During 1997-2002 will be a time known as the "Era of Reseeding." Major population areas will be thinned-out. "The human population will be resettled, while the care of the planet will be entrusted to shamanic exercises." Industrial civilization will be done away with. UN personnel will develop plans for economic battalions to redistribute the wealth of the world. "Jose Arguelles professor of art at a New Mexico university, mastermind of World Harmonic Convergence Day August 16-17, 1987

They are a bit behind schedule yet racing on faster and faster. They plan to take children from parents; prevent conception except on express instructions of THE STATE for THE SPECIFIC NEEDS OF THE STATE and to raise the children in collective STATE institutions uncontaminated by parental values. The masses of serfs and slaves are evidently, reportedly to be housed in Soviet style apartment complexes.

16. A world government can intervene militarily in the internal affairs of any nation when it disapproves of their activities." - Kofi Annan, U.N. Secretary General

That's part of what's going on in the Middle East. The global government is bringing to heel those States that have not been sufficiently compliant with their orders.

30."From the days of Sparticus, Wieskhopf, Karl Marx, Trotsky, Rosa Luxemberg, and Emma Goldman, this world conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definite recognizable role in the tragedy of the French revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century. And now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their head and have become the undisputed masters of that enormous empire." Winston Churchill, stated to the London Press, in l922.

34."The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson." A letter written by FDR to Colonel House, November 21st, l933

35."The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes." Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, 1952

36."Fifty men have run America, and that's a high figure." Joseph Kennedy, father of JFK, in the July 26th, l936 issue of The New York Times.

41."The Council on Foreign Relations is "the establishment." Not only does it have influence and power in key decision-making positions at the highest levels of government to apply pressure from above, but it also announces and uses individuals and groups to bring pressure from below, to justify the high level decisions for converting the U.S. from a sovereign Constitutional Republic into a servile member state of a one-world dictatorship." Former Congressman John Rarick 1971

64."The existing order is breaking down at a very rapid rate, and the main uncertainty is whether mankind can exert a positive role in shaping a new world order or is doomed to await collapse in a passive posture. We believe a new order will be born no later than early in the next century and that the death throes of the old and the birth pangs of the new will be a testing time for the human species." Richard A. Falk, in an article entitled "Toward a New World Order: Modest Methods and Drastic Visions," in the book On the Creation of a Just World Order (1975)

69."We believe we are creating the beginning of a new world order coming out of the collapse of the U.S.-Soviet antagonisms." Brent Scowcroft (August 1990), quoted in The Washington Post (May 1991)

70."We can see beyond the present shadows of war in the Middle East to a new world order where the strong work together to deter and stop aggression. This was precisely Franklin Roosevelt's and Winston Churchill's vision for peace for the post-war period." Richard Gephardt, in The Wall Street Journal (September 1990)

71."But it became clear as time went on that in Mr. Bush's mind the New World Order was founded on a convergence of goals and interests between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, so strong and permanent that they would work as a team through the U.N. Security Council." Excerpt from A. M. Rosenthal, in The New York Times (January 1991)

. . . They do not want constitutional government; they do not want ameliorated institutions... they want to change the tenure of land, to drive out the present owners of the soil and put an end to ecclesiastical establishments... Benjamin Disraeli Bristish Prime Minister July 14, 1856 speech in the House of Commons

80.There is a small circle of men who control the world's finance. "Each member, before initiation, knows its religion to be reward for friends and extermination of enemies. Once a man is within the magic circle...punishment for disloyalty is sure and terrible, and in no corner of the Earth can he escape it, nor can any power on Earth protect him from it." The magic circle is "at the receiving end of the greatest information bureau in the world." Thomas Lawson Everybody's Magazine "Frenzied Finance" 1904

81."Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. Our minds are molded, our tastes are formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Walter Bernays Propaganda 1928

87.Lucis Trust NGO officially recognized by the UN, incorporated in 1924 as Lucifer Publishing, identifies Lucifer as the "Solar Logos" (logos - greek for "spirit") World Goodwill. sister organization

95."Psychopolitics is an important if less known division of geo-politics. It is less known because it must necessarily deal with "mental healing." "By Psychopolitics our chief goals are carried forward. To produce a maximum of chaos in the culture of the enemy is our first most important step." "Our fruits are grown in chaos, distrust, economic depression, and scientific turmoil. At last a weary populace can seek peace only in our offered Communist State; at last only Communism can resolve the problem of the masses." Laventi Beria Stalin's chief of security Speech at V. I. Lenin University

98."Mankind is obviously divided into god-informed ["god" in this case = Lucifer] men and lower human creatures... The sacred spark is missing in them and it is they who are the... inferior races on the globe..." Helena Blavatsky The Secret Doctrine

106."I believe that if the people of this nation fully understood what Congress has done to them over past forty-nine years, they would move on Washington. It adds up to a preconceived plan to destroy the economic and social independence of the United States". Senator George Malone of Nevada, speaking before Congress in 1957

114. The Shape of Things to Come by H.G. Wells is published. Wells predicts a second world war around 1940, originating from a German-Polish dispute. After 1945, there would be an increasing lack of public safety in "criminally infected" areas. The plan for the "Modern World-State" would succeed on its third attempt (about 1980)[their schedule is running late, as I noted], and come out of something that occurred in Basra, Iraq.

116. Foster Dulles, later Secretary of State, says to the American Bar Association in Kentucky that "treaty laws can override the Constitution." He says treaties can take power away from Congress and give them to the President. They can take powers away from the States and give them to the Federal Government or to some international body and they can cut across the rights given to the people by their constitutional Bill of Rights. April 12,1952

124. "A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state to supplant our democratic government and is working closely with the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. I have had plenty of opportunity in my post in Berlin to witness how close some of our American ruling families are to the Nazi regime...Certain American industrialists had a great deal to do with bringing fascist regimes into being in both Germany and Italy. They extended aid to help Fascism occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there." William E. Dodd, U.S. Ambassador to Germany, 1937

120. "Another reason why the environment is such an important issue to Gorbachev is that it will enable him to introduce and ratify comprehensive international treaties granting unprecedented power to seize government and private property all in the name of protecting the environment. In fact, Gorbachev's mandate for the future includes the imposition of stringent global environmental laws which would regulate every area of life. Toward this end he has been supporting the creation of an all-encompassing planetary document called The Earth Charter. Gary Kah The Enviromental Agenda.

131.The First and Second World Wars were wars designed to kill millions were not successful enough hence the new methods outlined in the Global 2000 Report...The world is populated with too many redundant people who must not be allowed to procreate and consume scarce natural resources...The Committee of 300 (Illuminati) commissioned Cyrus Vance to write a paper on this subject of how to bring about such genocide. The paper was produced under the title 'Global 2000 Report' and was accepted and approved for action by former President James Earl Carter, and Edwin Muskie, then Secretary of States, for and on behalf of the US Government." Dr. John Coleman, former intelligence agent of British MI6, from his report, Global 2000: A Blueprint For Global Genocide, written in 1992 concerning the depopulation agenda of the Club of Rome

132."Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy." Henry Kissinger, quoted by Bob Woodward in The Final Days, 1976

133."The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." Henry Kissinger

139."The distribution of birth control devices and the imposition of mandatory abortion practices in the third world countries is now ecologically insufficient and unfairly out of world social balance. The white, upper and middle class females of modern society are too healthy and fertile to be exempted from some imposed regulation of international law or mandate. An American born child is environmentally too expensive to maintain to his or her adulthood in a world economy. American women must be subjected to some manner of regulation beyond licensing or immediate and mandatory abortion practices. Unconventional and extreme measures must be implemented and enforced by global U.N. mandate as it is deemed necessary.

Thankfully, after Armageddon, during Christ's Millenial reign . . . God has a different plan . . . every man his own field, vineyard etc.

See also #138 at the link above. And, there are other informative paragraphs at the link.

275 posted on 02/24/2012 10:27:18 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Alamo-Girl; wagglebee; Mad Dawg; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; ...
The Gattica world can happen right here with liberals in control.

A slight correction . . . The Gattica world IS BEING BROUGHT ABOUT as we type, right here and everywhere on the planet with the satanic Marxist globalists thoroughly in charge for lo these many decades on the carnal plain. They are just bringing it forward more OVERTLY, more on the surface, more brazenly in public.

Now their sponsored rock bands are brazenly overtly worshiping satan.

Why Lucifer/Satan? Musicians now openly performing to or about the Evil One!!
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread811284/pg1

First video:

KANYE WEST--Devil In A New Dress (OFFICIAL VIDEO)i DO NOT RECOMMEND WATCHING IT--particularly without the sound being OFF--I just offer it as documentation of how far satanism is being already overtly pushed in our culture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D55rDDvu3n4

2nd Video:
Jay-Z - Lucifer

Lucifer glorified in the chorus. Again--I don't encourage watching or listening . . . just for documentation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnedARQGOPM

@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@

Their own quotes in their own words & publications from this collection here, illustrate such:

http://twoday.net/static/omega/files/quotes_from_people_who_consider_us_subjects.htm

14."To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism, and religious dogmas." - Brock Adams, Director UN Health Organization

18. "No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation." David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations

4. "In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all." Strobe Talbot, President Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th, l992.

8.The truth of the matter is that you do have those standby provisions, and the statutory emergency plans are there whereby you could, in the name of stopping terrorism, apprehend, invoke the military, and arrest Americans and hold them in detention camps." U.S. Representative Henry Gonzalez, August 29, 1994

11. "The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent." Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets.

13."It was not my intention to doubt that the doctrine of the Illuminati and the principles of Jacobinism had not spread to the United States. On the contrary, no one is more satisfied of this fact than I am." The Writings of George Washington 1798 letter.

15. "We are not going to achieve a New World Order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money." - Arthur Schlesinger Jr., 'The CFR Journal Foreign Affairs', August 1975.

101. "Every child in American who enters school with an allegiance toward our elected officials, toward our founding fathers, toward our institutions, toward the preservation of this form of government... all of this proves the children are sick, because the truly well individual is one who has rejected all of those things and is what I would call the true international child of the future".
...
Chester M. Pierce, Harvard University psychiatrist, at a 1973 International Education Seminar, as quoted in "Educating For The New World Order" by B.K. Eakman

105."In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, it was planned that way". Teddy Roosevelt

129."It's terrible to have to say this. World population must be stabilized and to do that we must eliminate 350,000 people per day" Jacques-Yves Cousteau, oceanographer and humanist, The UNESCO Courier, Nov. 1991, page 13

130."The commitment of government to deal with the population issue is of course essential...There are many ways to make the death rate Increase." Robert McNamara, Secretary of Defense, New Solidarity, March 30, 1981

100."The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists". J. Edgar Hoover, former head of the FBI

. . . Crystal Earth Papers Says that chaotic events will result in the replacement of current governmental and political structures. New values will be instituted for mankind, including cooperation, collaboration, and unification on behalf of the "Spirit of the Earth." During 1997-2002 will be a time known as the "Era of Reseeding." Major population areas will be thinned-out. "The human population will be resettled, while the care of the planet will be entrusted to shamanic exercises." Industrial civilization will be done away with. UN personnel will develop plans for economic battalions to redistribute the wealth of the world. "Jose Arguelles professor of art at a New Mexico university, mastermind of World Harmonic Convergence Day August 16-17, 1987

They are a bit behind schedule yet racing on faster and faster. They plan to take children from parents; prevent conception except on express instructions of THE STATE for THE SPECIFIC NEEDS OF THE STATE and to raise the children in collective STATE institutions uncontaminated by parental values. The masses of serfs and slaves are evidently, reportedly to be housed in Soviet style apartment complexes.

16. A world government can intervene militarily in the internal affairs of any nation when it disapproves of their activities." - Kofi Annan, U.N. Secretary General

That's part of what's going on in the Middle East. The global government is bringing to heel those States that have not been sufficiently compliant with their orders.

30."From the days of Sparticus, Wieskhopf, Karl Marx, Trotsky, Rosa Luxemberg, and Emma Goldman, this world conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definite recognizable role in the tragedy of the French revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century. And now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their head and have become the undisputed masters of that enormous empire." Winston Churchill, stated to the London Press, in l922.

34."The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson." A letter written by FDR to Colonel House, November 21st, l933

35."The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes." Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, 1952

36."Fifty men have run America, and that's a high figure." Joseph Kennedy, father of JFK, in the July 26th, l936 issue of The New York Times.

41."The Council on Foreign Relations is "the establishment." Not only does it have influence and power in key decision-making positions at the highest levels of government to apply pressure from above, but it also announces and uses individuals and groups to bring pressure from below, to justify the high level decisions for converting the U.S. from a sovereign Constitutional Republic into a servile member state of a one-world dictatorship." Former Congressman John Rarick 1971

64."The existing order is breaking down at a very rapid rate, and the main uncertainty is whether mankind can exert a positive role in shaping a new world order or is doomed to await collapse in a passive posture. We believe a new order will be born no later than early in the next century and that the death throes of the old and the birth pangs of the new will be a testing time for the human species." Richard A. Falk, in an article entitled "Toward a New World Order: Modest Methods and Drastic Visions," in the book On the Creation of a Just World Order (1975)

69."We believe we are creating the beginning of a new world order coming out of the collapse of the U.S.-Soviet antagonisms." Brent Scowcroft (August 1990), quoted in The Washington Post (May 1991)

70."We can see beyond the present shadows of war in the Middle East to a new world order where the strong work together to deter and stop aggression. This was precisely Franklin Roosevelt's and Winston Churchill's vision for peace for the post-war period." Richard Gephardt, in The Wall Street Journal (September 1990)

71."But it became clear as time went on that in Mr. Bush's mind the New World Order was founded on a convergence of goals and interests between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, so strong and permanent that they would work as a team through the U.N. Security Council." Excerpt from A. M. Rosenthal, in The New York Times (January 1991)

. . . They do not want constitutional government; they do not want ameliorated institutions... they want to change the tenure of land, to drive out the present owners of the soil and put an end to ecclesiastical establishments... Benjamin Disraeli Bristish Prime Minister July 14, 1856 speech in the House of Commons

80.There is a small circle of men who control the world's finance. "Each member, before initiation, knows its religion to be reward for friends and extermination of enemies. Once a man is within the magic circle...punishment for disloyalty is sure and terrible, and in no corner of the Earth can he escape it, nor can any power on Earth protect him from it." The magic circle is "at the receiving end of the greatest information bureau in the world." Thomas Lawson Everybody's Magazine "Frenzied Finance" 1904

81."Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. Our minds are molded, our tastes are formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Walter Bernays Propaganda 1928

87.Lucis Trust NGO officially recognized by the UN, incorporated in 1924 as Lucifer Publishing, identifies Lucifer as the "Solar Logos" (logos - greek for "spirit") World Goodwill. sister organization

95."Psychopolitics is an important if less known division of geo-politics. It is less known because it must necessarily deal with "mental healing." "By Psychopolitics our chief goals are carried forward. To produce a maximum of chaos in the culture of the enemy is our first most important step." "Our fruits are grown in chaos, distrust, economic depression, and scientific turmoil. At last a weary populace can seek peace only in our offered Communist State; at last only Communism can resolve the problem of the masses." Laventi Beria Stalin's chief of security Speech at V. I. Lenin University

98."Mankind is obviously divided into god-informed ["god" in this case = Lucifer] men and lower human creatures... The sacred spark is missing in them and it is they who are the... inferior races on the globe..." Helena Blavatsky The Secret Doctrine

106."I believe that if the people of this nation fully understood what Congress has done to them over past forty-nine years, they would move on Washington. It adds up to a preconceived plan to destroy the economic and social independence of the United States". Senator George Malone of Nevada, speaking before Congress in 1957

114. The Shape of Things to Come by H.G. Wells is published. Wells predicts a second world war around 1940, originating from a German-Polish dispute. After 1945, there would be an increasing lack of public safety in "criminally infected" areas. The plan for the "Modern World-State" would succeed on its third attempt (about 1980)[their schedule is running late, as I noted], and come out of something that occurred in Basra, Iraq.

116. Foster Dulles, later Secretary of State, says to the American Bar Association in Kentucky that "treaty laws can override the Constitution." He says treaties can take power away from Congress and give them to the President. They can take powers away from the States and give them to the Federal Government or to some international body and they can cut across the rights given to the people by their constitutional Bill of Rights. April 12,1952

124. "A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state to supplant our democratic government and is working closely with the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. I have had plenty of opportunity in my post in Berlin to witness how close some of our American ruling families are to the Nazi regime...Certain American industrialists had a great deal to do with bringing fascist regimes into being in both Germany and Italy. They extended aid to help Fascism occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there." William E. Dodd, U.S. Ambassador to Germany, 1937

120. "Another reason why the environment is such an important issue to Gorbachev is that it will enable him to introduce and ratify comprehensive international treaties granting unprecedented power to seize government and private property all in the name of protecting the environment. In fact, Gorbachev's mandate for the future includes the imposition of stringent global environmental laws which would regulate every area of life. Toward this end he has been supporting the creation of an all-encompassing planetary document called The Earth Charter. Gary Kah The Enviromental Agenda.

131.The First and Second World Wars were wars designed to kill millions were not successful enough hence the new methods outlined in the Global 2000 Report...The world is populated with too many redundant people who must not be allowed to procreate and consume scarce natural resources...The Committee of 300 (Illuminati) commissioned Cyrus Vance to write a paper on this subject of how to bring about such genocide. The paper was produced under the title 'Global 2000 Report' and was accepted and approved for action by former President James Earl Carter, and Edwin Muskie, then Secretary of States, for and on behalf of the US Government." Dr. John Coleman, former intelligence agent of British MI6, from his report, Global 2000: A Blueprint For Global Genocide, written in 1992 concerning the depopulation agenda of the Club of Rome

132."Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy." Henry Kissinger, quoted by Bob Woodward in The Final Days, 1976

133."The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." Henry Kissinger

139."The distribution of birth control devices and the imposition of mandatory abortion practices in the third world countries is now ecologically insufficient and unfairly out of world social balance. The white, upper and middle class females of modern society are too healthy and fertile to be exempted from some imposed regulation of international law or mandate. An American born child is environmentally too expensive to maintain to his or her adulthood in a world economy. American women must be subjected to some manner of regulation beyond licensing or immediate and mandatory abortion practices. Unconventional and extreme measures must be implemented and enforced by global U.N. mandate as it is deemed necessary.

Thankfully, after Armageddon, during Christ's Millenial reign . . . God has a different plan . . . every man his own field, vineyard etc.

See also #138 at the link above. And, there are other informative paragraphs at the link.

276 posted on 02/24/2012 10:29:22 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: allmendream; YHAOS; GodGunsGuts; Fichori; tpanther; Gordon Greene; Ethan Clive Osgoode; ...
The Judeo-Christian tradition is perfectly compatible, and actually quite congruent, with the scientific method. What is not compatible or congruent with the scientific method is presupposition of supernaturalistic means to explain physical phenomena.

And right there you have left the realm of scientific inquiry and dived head first into the philosophical.

IOW, Christianity is compatible with science if it's done on your terms.

277 posted on 02/24/2012 10:46:49 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Science is only science if it is done scientifically. Those are not my terms. One cannot play checkers and insist to the world that it is chess. Chess has its own rules.

Presupposition of supernatural means to explain physical phenomena is not now and never will be “science”.

Because such supernatural means are capricious, unpredictable and non-replicable - such supposition will lead nowhere as far as further discovery and useful applications.

However physical means are understandable, predictable and replicable - and so such a system leads to reliable and useful knowledge about the physical world.

That is why Science is of use and Creationism is useless.


278 posted on 02/24/2012 10:52:45 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: metmom
That hot steamy pond of primordial soup, wherein one single cell out of nowhere, got so ‘hot’ it reproduced itself is nothing short of a ‘miracle’.... But since this fundamental foundation of evolution can not be tested let alone verified it has been walled off into some dark secret place.

All the obsession over ‘flesh’ bodies and dreaming up ‘scientists’ methodologies won't even give some of these with so called power of knowledge passing test scores for pre-school training, when time comes to exist in the original form of ‘spirit’ bodies.

279 posted on 02/24/2012 10:55:19 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: allmendream; YHAOS; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; metmom

AMD: The Judeo-Christian tradition is perfectly compatible, and actually quite congruent, with the scientific method. What is not compatible or congruent with the scientific method is presupposition of supernaturalistic means to explain physical phenomena.”

Spirited: As with all too many people today, you place way too much faith in naturalistic science. And your faith as well as many of the beliefs you posit did not come naturally.

Approximately fifty years ago Progressive atheists set in motion an evil program designed by the Frankfurt School that over time would morally-degrade all Americans.

With moral degradation comes the thinking and doing of the very evils necessary for the destruction of Christian-based America. In short, morally-degraded Americans would themselves become the destroyers of America, their own children, the family, morality, individual freedoms, property rights, and traditions

Morally degraded Americans are the sleepwalking entities that have been the dream of communists and progressives since the 1920’s, said Pedro Blas Gonzales in his essay, “The New Man Revisted.” (OrthodoxyToday.org, 2009)

Gonzales describes the New Man as being like bread dough that can,

“….be shaped, formed, deformed and re-formed on demand.”

America’s New Man is the product of atheist-materialist social engineers who for over forty years have pounded it into the heads of Americans that God is dead and souls, spirits, demons, heaven and hell are superstitious fairytales. The mind-conditioning also includes: evolutionism is factual science,the scientific method is superior to metaphysics, there is no such thing as right and wrong, and everything under the sun is political.

With the destruction of moral conviction also comes the inability to think for oneself. Hence the New Man can be heard to say on one hand that he has no soul and that demons don’t exist and creation science is bogus while on the other paradoxically professing belief in unseen forces of nature, ie., evolutionism and in common descent, a belief that logically reduces the New Man to a Heinz 57 genetic soup-mix.

Fascination with science fiction, deep space, the metaphysics of evolutionism, the paranormal (spirit world), occultism, and extraterrestrials has effectively become a new religion for America’s ‘scientifically-engineered’ New Man.

Unbeknownst to America’s New Men however, anthropologists, scientific psychiatrists, and other professionals from the counseling and medical field are taking very seriously the fact that something very frightening and unexplainable by Western science is going on here in America and throughout the West. In their search for answers they are jettisoning as useless Godless materialist explanations. A “new” consensus is emerging: Men have souls and demons exist:

“…we need to understand a number of different concepts in order to comprehend the worldwide phenomenon of possession and exorcism. On the psychological level, we have come to know the notion underlying all possession, namely, that the body is a shell, inhabited by a soul, and that this shell may on occasion be surrendered to an intrusive alien entity. ” (How about Demons? Possession and Exorcism in the Modern World, Felicitas Goodman. IndianaUpress:1988)

Secular researchers are rediscovering what pagans and early Christians knew: demons do exist. A classic description of demonic activity is contained in early Church Father Cyprian’s “Life.” Before his conversion Cyprian was a Mystery Religion initiate. He writes:

“On Mt. Olympus (I) saw a numberless legion of demons, with the prince of darkness at their head….I greeted him and his ancients…He promised to make me a prince after my departure from the body…His head was covered by a crown…of gold and brilliant stones…his clothing was astonishing. When he would turn (the) whole place would tremble, a multitude of evil spirits stood obediently at his throne. I gave myself over entirely to his service at that time…” (The Soul After Death, Fr. Seraphim Rose, pp. 112-113)

Slowly but surely some sleepwalkers are finally waking up to the shocking, frightening reality that not only do they have souls but demons do in fact exist, they transmit teachings, philosophy, and ideas, they can and do appear in various forms and they can oppress and possess human beings.

The scientific method is not ‘aces’ but is rather a lower order of knowledge that has been elevated over metaphysics, the highest order.


280 posted on 02/24/2012 11:11:12 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: metmom

AMD seems to think, or is misrepresenting, that creationists believe that supernatural activity is still going on and that this supernatural activity is how we explain observable phenomenon.

Regardless of which of the above it is, he’s wrong (or dishonest). After the 6 days of creation, supernatural activity in creation ceased and everything began following its natural rules. As a matter of fact, Western, non-muslim “science” DEPENDS on this consistency in nature in order to function.


281 posted on 02/24/2012 11:22:50 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: allmendream

OOOOOOHHHMMMM.... “science is of use and creationism is useless” OOOOOOOOHHHHMMMM

Look doofus, no one is saying supernatural activity is continuing today. Stop misrepresenting what others believe.


282 posted on 02/24/2012 11:25:37 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MrB
Look doofus, it doesn't matter WHEN you propose the supernatural activity happened - supernatural activity is not predictable and replicable or understandable - and so leads to no further use or application.

That is why science is of use and creationism is useless.

283 posted on 02/24/2012 11:38:38 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream

ah... replicatable!

OK, “replicate” molecules to man.

I’ll wait over here.


284 posted on 02/24/2012 11:39:49 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: allmendream
If you want to gain knowledge about the physical world - the scientific method is aces - nothing else comes close.

No kidding? Hoo wooda thunk? I’ve said the same many times (the latest being #271). So why are you telling me something you know I know?

The Judeo-Christian tradition is perfectly compatible, and actually quite congruent, with the scientific method.

That’s what Pope Benedict has said. However, I don’t think he would buy off on the idea that the Judeo-Christian tradition is useless.

What is not compatible or congruent with the scientific method is presupposition of supernaturalistic means to explain physical phenomena.

Is it, then, your contention that the God of Judeo-Christian tradition is not, as an article of faith, the Creator of Mankind and the Universe?

Eugenics is as warped a response to knowledge of DNA inheritance as Socialism is in response to knowledge of Free Markets.

Really?! Why aren’t we told these things? Oh, wait . . .

285 posted on 02/24/2012 11:42:39 AM PST by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: MrB
The mechanisms whereby mutations accumulate in different populations is replicable.

Observed evolutionary adaptation through mutational derived variations that are subject to selection are both necessary and sufficient to explain a 2% genetic difference in two populations over six or seven million years.

What would stop that mechanism from accumulating differences? What would stop those variations from being subject to selection?

One need not exactly reproduce the Grand Canyon to show that erosion is an understandable predictable and replicable mechanism that can form canyons.

Moreover you have, as is typical of Creationists when discussing evolution, moved the goal posts on to abiogenesis. There is currently no understood mechanism for abiogenesis - so such is not well understood, predictable or replicable.

But evolution sure is.

Too bad for you that you have to try to confuse and conflate the two subjects to try to cast aspersions upon what you obviously have so little knowledge of.

Care to explain to me again HOW organisms adapt to change and your evidence that supports it?

That would really be amusing!

286 posted on 02/24/2012 11:47:13 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream

When you can replicate a pool of lifeless molecules “evolving” into a man,

get back to me.


287 posted on 02/24/2012 11:49:25 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: YHAOS
Creationism is not synonymous with the Christianity despite your obvious delusions otherwise.

Creationism is useless. That is not to say Christianity is useless - that is your dishonest take on my statement that you wish to misrepresent.

God is the creator of mankind and the universe, and as I pointed out to you previously - the argument is over the METHODS used.

The universe is perfectly compatible with being formed through natural laws. This is a useful model that leads to useful predictions and applications.

The model that it all happened miraculously is absolutely useless in terms of application and further discovery about the natural world.

Science is of use.

Creationism is useless.

288 posted on 02/24/2012 11:53:00 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: MrB
When you can predict and replicate a miracle by God- you can come back to me and assure me that Creationism is of use.

Until then Creationism is useless.

One need not form a planet using gravity to make use of the model that planets form through gravity.

Apparently that is a difficult concept for those who prefer simplistic thinking.

289 posted on 02/24/2012 11:56:35 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: spirited irish

Thank you for making this so clear and not garbled with word phrases for those of us unfamilar with the deep things of the scientific world.

Though I do understand science and religion ask different questions and apply different methods of study..... This doesn’t make them incompatible. It does make them distinct....... Claims about God as the creator of life are claims of faith...... Claims that there is no divine power behind the created order are claims of a different kind of faith.

... ‘You do not know’ the works of God who makes everything. Ecclesiastes 11:5

‘By faith’.. we understand.... that the worlds were ‘framed’ by the word of God.” Heb 11:3

God created ‘by simply speaking’. He said what should be created, and it was so! Gen 1:3,6,9,11,14,20,24,26

‘By wisdom’ God made the heavens and the heavenly bodies. Psalm 136:5-9

He has ‘established the world’ by His wisdom, and stretched out the heaven ‘By His understanding’. Jeremiah 51:15


290 posted on 02/24/2012 12:09:42 PM PST by caww
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To: MrB; allmendream
Look doofus, no one is saying supernatural activity is continuing today. Stop misrepresenting what others believe.

Even if it is, scientists have by their own parameters they have set up for themselves, disqualified themselves from speaking on it, so their opinion on it amounts to nothing more than meaningless drivel.

291 posted on 02/24/2012 12:41:52 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Because a miracle wouldn’t be replicable or predictable or understandable - speaking on it wouldn’t lead to anything productive anyway.

Science is of use.

Creationism is useless.


292 posted on 02/24/2012 12:45:45 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
"Because such supernatural means are capricious, unpredictable and non-replicable - such supposition will lead nowhere as far as further discovery and useful applications."

Are you claiming that evolution is steady, predictable and replicable?

293 posted on 02/24/2012 12:57:27 PM PST by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: allmendream

Creation is the foundation of the 3 major religions found in the world today.

And please do tell us of the scientific origins theory where everything came to be using only the known natural laws. Every big bang explanation I’ve ever read indicates that all natural laws were suspended and useless for the initial stages of creation. and that is does appear that either everything was created from nothing or we have no explanations for anything prior to the big bang.

Here’s another simple thought experiment for you amd.

Take Einsteins E = MC^2 then apply the zeroth thermodynamic law to energy or absolute zero where all molecular activity ceases. Now solve for Mass.


294 posted on 02/24/2012 1:02:12 PM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels
Creation-ISM is useless. That God created is not under discussion among Christians, however the means he used to do so are. There is nothing un-Christian about accepting and making use of scientific models and explanations.

Once you abandon reason and evidence in favor of your favorite theological interpretation you may as well claim the Sun is in orbit around the Earth......

Wait a minute!!!!!

295 posted on 02/24/2012 1:09:07 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
Creationism is not synonymous with the Christianity despite your obvious delusions otherwise.

Creationism is a cardinal tenet of Christianity. Creationism is not a religion, it is an important religious belief of Christianity (that God is the creator of Mankind and of the Universe). To state that Creationism is not synonymous with Christianity is true in one sense of the term (as having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or phrase in the same language), however in the sense of Creationism being closely associated with Christianity, Creationism is absolutely synonymous with Christianity (see the Compact Oxford English Dictionary, third edition, 2005). And, it’s certainly true that Creationism is and has been closely associated with Christianity since at least 1611. You delude yourself if you think otherwise.

Creationism is useless. That is not to say Christianity is useless

That may be the condition of the upside down, bait & switch State of Confusion wherein you reside, but in the normal world to state that Creationism is useless, without further defining Creationism, is to state that Christianity is useless. Take responsibility for your advocacy.

The model that it all happened miraculously is absolutely useless in terms of application and further discovery about the natural world.

A splendid exposition of Materialist dogma. A cowardly Materialism that hasn’t the courage to take responsibility for its advocacy and to articulate its most fundamental dogma: that nothing exists except matter and its movements.

Creationism is useless.

Which is to say that Christianity is useless. A corel demonstration of the fallacy of the smuggled concept.

296 posted on 02/24/2012 4:51:32 PM PST by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: YHAOS
corel = core.

Leapin' lizards!

297 posted on 02/24/2012 5:00:26 PM PST by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: allmendream

“The model that it all happened miraculously is absolutely useless in terms of application and further discovery about the natural world.”

But neither does it hinder application and discovery, apparently. A lot of discoveries about the natural world, and applications from those discoveries, have been made by those who believe God created the world by miraculous means. Believing special, supernatural creation does not preclude discovery about the natural world — been going on for centuries. Perhaps I misunderstood your point.


298 posted on 02/24/2012 5:51:13 PM PST by Mudtiger
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To: Mudtiger
It sure seems to hinder an understanding of biological processes, estimation of age of objects artifacts and species, and amazingly enough even acceptance that the Earth orbits the Sun.

Estimations based upon such claptrap as “hydroplate theory” will never have the accuracy of estimations based upon science.

People use science to discover things.

Creationism isn't useful at all in that regard.

299 posted on 02/24/2012 6:10:21 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Quix

Thank you for sharing the information, dear Quix!


300 posted on 02/24/2012 9:33:35 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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