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Pastor Lists 'Mormon Cult Errors,' Says Those Who Love Jesus Won't Vote Mormon
Christian Post ^ | Jan. 25, 2012 | Christine Thomasos

Posted on 02/19/2012 9:57:32 PM PST by Colofornian

An evangelical pastor who says his ministry's goal is "uniting the USA in Christ," has created a list of "5 Mormon Cult Errors" that he believes can help Christians from being "deceived" by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He insists that those who "love Jesus" should not vote for a Mormon candidate, in this case, Mitt Romney.

Pastor Steven Andrew, head of USA Christian Ministries and author of the 2011 book, Making of a Strong Christian Nation, online list of alleged cult-like practices includes: 1). Mormons deny God; 2). Mormons preach a different gospel; 3). Mormons hide the Cross; 4). Mormons have occult practice; 5). Mormons are Anti-Christian." Andrew, who refers to Romney as "Mormon Romney," has previously called on Franklin Graham and Joel Osteen to repent for suggesting that Christians should have no issues with voting for a Mormon.

In his comments, Andrew takes President Barack Obama to task as well, expressing his doubts about the president's confessed Christian faith.

"If a Mormon or Obama wants to believe things contrary to God's Word, God let's them. But they shouldn't deceive others and say they are Christians," he said, adding that he believes the president has betrayed the United States and mismanaged finances.

"Barack Obama doesn't have God's love for Americans, (nor) does Obama want God's unalienable rights for Christian life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," a statement on Andrew's USA Christian Ministries website read. "Obama betrayed the USA, seeks to remove freedoms and squandered $6-plus trillion that harms Americans, from the elderly to the youth."

Pastor Andrews told The Christian Post that he created the "5 Mormon Cult Errors" list after examining the issues taking place within the country.

"I'm very concerned for the United States that we have God's blessing. To have God's blessing we need to love God and obey him, because everybody wants us to recover economically and have freedom again," he said. "The Bible tells us that comes from loving God and obeying him."

Andrew said he hopes to educate people about Mormons having a different doctrine than Christians.

"I would like to see Christians understand that Mormons preach a different gospel, which is what apostle Paul warns in Galatians 1:9," Andrew said. "If you preach another gospel you are cursed. If we vote for a Mormon we're turning our back on Jesus Christ."

Nate Nielson, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, addressed the public's concerns with Mormonism in an article titled "Are Mormons Christian?" The LDS article attempts to clarify the core beliefs of the Mormon church.

"For Latter-day Saints there is absolutely no equivocation on these central doctrinal points: Jesus Christ is the Son of God, sent to Earth to teach the truth and redeem mankind," Nielson writes. "He died on the cross and was literally resurrected three days later. He atoned for the sins of mankind."

Still, Andrew has questioned the religious texts that Mormons use in addition to the Bible, the belief that human beings can become godheads and differences taught in the Church of Latter Day Saints, doctrinal differences highlighted in a previous CP article examining the "cult" of Mormonism.

Some other differences noted by James Beverley, professor of Christian Thought and Ethics at Tyndale University, in his discussion with CP on Mormonism include the teaching that God used to be a man and grew up to be God, that Jesus is the product of Elohim (the God of this planet) and His wife, and that the true church is the LDS church.

Nielson, insists, however, that his faith has fundamental similarities to other Christian denominations, and that the differences between the Mormon church and other Christian denominations does not mean Latter-day Saints are not Christians.

"Mormons are not interested in parsing semantics or embracing the Nicene Creed or any other post-New Testament creed in order to be accepted by the world of Christian orthodoxy," he writes. "While there is more common ground between Mormons and creedal Christians than many realize, the differences are also substantial," Nielson writes.

"All Christians can acknowledge that the Lord offered two commandments as primary – to love God and to love our neighbors. Doing so makes us followers of Christ, theological interpretations of doctrines notwithstanding."

In a similar argument, Paul de Vries, president of New York Divinity School, hesitates to call Mormonism a "cult" because of the faith's theological differences.

"What's wrong about Mormons doesn't make them a cult," de Vries previously told CP. "I think there's something wrong with what they believe – I think there's something wrong with what Catholics believe – but I don't consider them to be a cult."

However, Pastor Andrew insists that the substantial differences between Mormon presidential candidates like Mitt Romney and Christians are too great. The pastor said that voting for a Mormon candidate or those who are not following Christ could be harmful to America.

"I created this ("5 Mormon Cult Errors" list) for two reasons, politics is important right now. Yes this is political, and as Christians, Exodus 18:21 gives us an example of how we want to vote," Andrew told CP. "If you love Jesus then you won't vote for a Mormon. More importantly if you love Jesus Christ than you're going to vote for candidates that love him."

On his website, Andrews also provides a "Christian Voting Guide," in which he suggests that whomever Christians vote for should "rule" in reverence of God, be efficient and a person of truth, and hate bribery.

"If a person doesn't have all four qualities, they don't meet God's standard," Andrews insists.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Other non-Christian; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: cult; inman; lds; mittromney; mormon; wehatemormons
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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From the article: Pastor Steven Andrew, head of USA Christian Ministries and author of the 2011 book, Making of a Strong Christian Nation, online list of alleged cult-like practices includes: 1). Mormons deny God; 2). Mormons preach a different gospel; 3). Mormons hide the Cross; 4). Mormons have occult practice; 5). Mormons are Anti-Christian."

For more on #5...see: If Mormonism is 'anti-Christian,' then how can it be considered 'Christian?'

For more on #4...re: Mormon occult connection...see all the links @ post #3 found at: “BillionGraves” Webinar to Highlight New Genealogy Technology [Lds obsession with the dead]

For more on #3, Lds' aversion to the cross, see:
* No-Cross Protocol ["New" Mormon tradition]
* Sunstone speaker attempts to explain LDS 'aversion' to cross [published by Mormon church owned Mormon Times]

For more on #2, the Mormon false "gospel" see post #2 here: The Mormon Plan of Eternal Progression

Do Mormon deny the ULTIMATE God? Yup! They don't even claim to know who He is...because they believe they worship a god who was the man who got their god-job from a "council of gods." Wanna know more...see posts #3, #5, #6 -- in Mormon leaders' own words -- here: Mormons reject core doctrines

From the article: Some other differences noted by James Beverley, professor of Christian Thought and Ethics at Tyndale University, in his discussion with CP on Mormonism include the teaching that God used to be a man and grew up to be God, that Jesus is the product of Elohim (the God of this planet) and His wife, and that the true church is the LDS church.

(Yeah, many of you didn't know, per Mormonism, that Mary wasn't the only "Mom" of Jesus...did ya?)

1 posted on 02/19/2012 9:57:43 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: All
From the article: In his comments, Andrew takes President Barack Obama to task as well, expressing his doubts about the president's confessed Christian faith. "If a Mormon or Obama wants to believe things contrary to God's Word, God let's them. But they shouldn't deceive others and say they are Christians," he said, adding that he believes the president has betrayed the United States and mismanaged finances. "Barack Obama doesn't have God's love for Americans, (nor) does Obama want God's unalienable rights for Christian life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," a statement on Andrew's USA Christian Ministries website read. "Obama betrayed the USA, seeks to remove freedoms and squandered $6-plus trillion that harms Americans, from the elderly to the youth."

America: Please don't let it come down to Obama vs. Obama lite (Mitt)

2 posted on 02/19/2012 9:59:51 PM PST by Colofornian ( BTW, what IS your quota for candidates being able to mention God (theology), after all?)
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To: Colofornian

I would vote for a half dead dog before I would vote for the socialist we have in the white house right now.


3 posted on 02/19/2012 10:02:21 PM PST by oldenuff2no (Rangers lead the way...... Delta, the original European home land security)
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To: Colofornian
Pastor Lists Five Categories of 'Mormon Cult Errors,' Says Those Who Love Jesus Won't Vote Mormon *


* As you know, there are literally thousands of 'Mormon Cult Errors.' Most can be fit into the five general categories listed in your article. Therefore, I fixed its headline.

4 posted on 02/19/2012 10:12:11 PM PST by Zakeet (The idiot Obozo is to competent leadership as an Etch-A-Sketch is to art)
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To: oldenuff2no

Thank you. I am not a Mormon and really have no love for that particular form of heresy. This much I know, the Founders made sure we did not have a religious test to hold office. If a Catholic can be President (and whatever the heck Obama is cause I can’t tell) then surely a Mormon can be president.

I really do not like it when someone tells me that “If I love Jesus, then....”. Fill in whatever blank you like. I know how to rightly divide the word and I know what God calls me to do. I do not need some yahoo with no understanding of the importance of this Constitutional republic telling me what I should do. If O gets another term this pastor won’t have a pulpit to preach from (if he is still allowed to preach that is)


5 posted on 02/20/2012 12:16:05 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Colofornian
If we vote for a Mormon person who used political office to promote $50 dollar on-demand abortions and to sanction and support a group that encourages children to embrace open homosexuality, we're turning our back on Jesus Christ."

There. Fixed it. Though Pastor Andrew may very well be correct on the Mormon aspect, as well. It never occured to me ... they do hide the cross, don't they?

Pastor Steven Andrew is doing the work a Pastor should do. God bless him!

6 posted on 02/20/2012 12:21:23 AM PST by Finny ("Raise hell. Vote smart." -- Ted Nugent)
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To: Colofornian
This guy is OBVIOUSLY a HATER!!!


5). Mormons are Anti-Christian.



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

7 posted on 02/20/2012 3:33:00 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
HOW can he CLAIM things like this???


4). Mormons have occult practice


GOOD Mormons are Temple Worthy - they pass this test EVERY year:


Temple Recommend Questions



1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?
 

 

1 Timothy 4:1-2
1. The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
2. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
3. As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
4. nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
3. If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
4. he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
5. and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

8 posted on 02/20/2012 3:35:39 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
1 Timothy 4:3

They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.



 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
 
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
 
  1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
  3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
  5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
  7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
  8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
  12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
  14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
  15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
  16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
  19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
  20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.



9 posted on 02/20/2012 3:38:09 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: oldenuff2no
2). Mormons preach a different gospel

Of COURSE we do!

You 'christians' have a SHRUNKEN version of it.

Joseph Smith [pbuh] had delivered to him the FULLNESS of it; which we MORMONs want SO desperately to share with the world!

--MormonDude(I can get a Book of MORMON sent to your door!)












10 posted on 02/20/2012 3:43:27 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Nifster
This much I know, the Founders made sure we did not have a religious test to hold office.

True, but incomplete.

The GOVERNMENT makes no test.

Our wise FOUNDERS made no LIMITS on what 'tests' we VOTERS can make our selves.

I'm sure you are not advocating folks who DO 'love Jesus' to throw Him under the bus and select a person who evidently believes things quite contradictory to what the BIBLE clearly teachs to be the ONE to lead the COUNTRY that they, also, love so dearly.

11 posted on 02/20/2012 3:47:17 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Nifster
I really do not like it when someone tells me that “If I love Jesus, then....”.

I agree with your sentiment here.

It is a false assertion that makes NO sense LOGICALLY.

But; the populace of the United States of America has been SO dumbed down, that the usage of 'If A; then B' works to influence folks ALL the time.

Thank you Madison Avenue!

12 posted on 02/20/2012 3:50:13 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Finny
("Raise hell. Vote smart." -- Ted Nugent)

It's WORKING!!!

13 posted on 02/20/2012 3:51:22 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Finny
If we vote for a Mormon person who used political office to promote $50 dollar on-demand abortions and to sanction and support a group that encourages children to embrace open homosexuality, we're turning our back on Jesus Christ."

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

14 posted on 02/20/2012 3:52:16 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Finny
I'm a MORMON ...
 
 
 

http://www.affirmation.org/


15 posted on 02/20/2012 3:53:15 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
I can get a Book of MORMON sent to your door!

Hecky durn!

We'll even DELIVER it!



16 posted on 02/20/2012 3:55:52 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: oldenuff2no
I would vote for a half dead dog before I would vote for the socialist we have in the white house right now.

(Yeah, I know...you'd probably vote for Hitler, too, if he was running against a Democratic anti-Christ)

17 posted on 02/20/2012 3:57:59 AM PST by Colofornian ( BTW, what IS your quota for candidates being able to mention God (theology), after all?)
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To: Colofornian

Even if Mormonism is not within the mainstream of Christianity, there is no religious test for public office and the nation has done just fine in the past with non-Christian presidents.


18 posted on 02/20/2012 4:30:27 AM PST by fso301
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To: Colofornian
Woo Hoo...I have a real liking for the book of Galatians. Glad to see it quoted in this piece.
Paul demonstrated "Living through Faith."
19 posted on 02/20/2012 5:36:06 AM PST by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: oldenuff2no

Exactly. I just thank God that I’m not a dogmatic religious goofball!


20 posted on 02/20/2012 5:45:30 AM PST by sand lake bar (You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.)
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To: Colofornian

This Christian would sooner vote for the Mormon than the current pResident.


21 posted on 02/20/2012 5:59:16 AM PST by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: al_c; All
This Christian would sooner vote for the Mormon than the current pResident.

Short-term thinking GOP-wise.

As of 2010, Gallup polling found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 29% as Republicans, and 38% as independents Political party strength in U.S. states

It wasn't that long ago previously that Democrats had almost 40% & Republicans 35%.

Now, less than 3 of every 10 registered voters are GOP.

Evangelical Christians constituted over 1/3rd of the entire electorate (those who voted) in the 2010 election. That was over 1 out of every 3 voters lumped together for ALL parties (GOP/Dem/Independent/other)!

What happens if 1 out of every 6 -- or 1 out of every 5 (5-6% of the electorate and a solid chunk of the GOP) elects to "walk away" permanently from being GOP registered voters due to the potential force-feeding of a pro-abortion RINO "god?"

The GOP then becomes another extinct Whig party...

The GOP then becomes the "DL" party (Democrats Lite)

Who wants to be a part of that?

You're looking then @ Christians & conservatives voting for liberals who would deliberately contribute to the potential permanent demise of the GOP!

You see, infidelity does constitute a ground for divorce!

Sorry...you can't just "sleep" with any candidate with no consequences!

22 posted on 02/20/2012 6:13:42 AM PST by Colofornian ( BTW, what IS your quota for candidates being able to mention God (theology), after all?)
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To: Colofornian
Andrew, who refers to Romney as "Mormon Romney," has previously called on

The linked article seems to indicate it's another pastor who made the comments about Franklin Graham and Osteen.


23 posted on 02/20/2012 6:27:38 AM PST by FourPeas ("Maladjusted and wigging out is no way to go through life, son." -hg)
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To: Nifster
This much I know, the Founders made sure we did not have a religious test to hold office.

The founders didn't have to contend with Muslims, Mormons or Atheist like we do today. And if they did have a test, do you think Mormonism would pass if this was being preached? Brigham Young is considered a prophet and if you believe in Mormonism, you must obey your prophet.

Brigham Young - If you find your brother in bed with your wife, and you put a javelin through them both, you would be justified and they would atoned for their sins and be received into the kingdom of God. ... "There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenants made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it;" Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 247 (1856)

Brigham Young - "If you want to know what to do with a thief that you may find stealing, I say kill him on the spot, and never suffer him to commit another iniquity." Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 108 (1853)

Brigham Young - After recounting a dream where he slits the throats of two apostates, Brigham Young states, "I say, rather than that apostates should flourish here, I will unsheath my bowie knife and conquer or die." Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 83 (1853)

24 posted on 02/20/2012 8:50:06 AM PST by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Colofornian
"For Latter-day Saints there is absolutely no equivocation on these central doctrinal points: Jesus Christ is the Son of God, sent to Earth to teach the truth and redeem mankind," Nielson writes. "He died on the cross and was literally resurrected three days later. He atoned for the sins of mankind."

He's very careful with those words and sentence structure, isn't he? Careful to not say, that Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind on the cross.Do you not believe that Jesus atoned for our sins in the garden of Gethsemane? And more accurately than, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, don't you believe Mr. Nielson that Jesus is A son of God? Instead of THE Son of God?

He and others of his religion (and their non mormon defenders) love to tip toe around the unvarnished truth about mormonism, even to the point of "lying for the lord" when necessary.

This gentile, isn't taken in.

25 posted on 02/20/2012 9:18:42 AM PST by Graybeard58 (Eccl 10 v. 19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.)
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To: Colofornian
Nielson, insists, however, that his faith has fundamental similarities to other Christian denominations, and that the differences between the Mormon church and other Christian denominations does not mean Latter-day Saints are not Christians.

Fundamental differences, any similarities are surface deep. I must admit however that the part that J.Smith copied directly from the Bible, King James era language and all, is similar to Christianity.

the differences between the Mormon church and other Christian denominations does not mean Latter-day Saints are not Christians.

They are allowed to call themselves any thing that pleases them. Fred Phelps calls his church Baptist, Nancy Pelosi says she's Catholic. Guess what though? Fred Phelps is not Baptist, Nancy Pelosi is not Catholic and Mormons worship a completely different Jesus and are not Christian.

26 posted on 02/20/2012 9:27:51 AM PST by Graybeard58 (Eccl 10 v. 19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.)
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To: fso301
Even if Mormonism is not within the mainstream of Christianity, there is no religious test for public office

Well, Gee Whiz! I've never seen that little gem before.

I guess I'll just have to reconsider all the candidates, leaving their religious beliefs out of my considerations. I wouldn't want to do any thing that's unconstitutional.

27 posted on 02/20/2012 9:39:08 AM PST by Graybeard58 (Eccl 10 v. 19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.)
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To: fso301

There is no religious test for the government to apply to candidates, but voters are allowed to use whatever crieria they want to decide for whom they will vote. Many on this forum, even on this thread, use Obama’s religion as a factor in determining their vote against him.


28 posted on 02/20/2012 10:02:16 AM PST by Turtlepower
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To: Turtlepower
but voters are allowed to use whatever crieria they want to decide for whom they will vote. Many on this forum, even on this thread, use Obama’s religion as a factor in determining their vote against him.

Fine but going by what some internet preacher with no physical address says who just happened to become active during the presidential campaign has a stench to it.

29 posted on 02/20/2012 1:12:42 PM PST by fso301
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To: Colofornian
Excuse me. My family has been actively fighting socialism and communism since WWI. Many generations of military veterans and career military men populate our family.
I served to retirement mostly during the cold war era. Our main opponent was the USSR. The united SOCIALIST soviet republic. Socialist's have historically been on the other side of individual freedoms, personal accumulation of wealth through hard work, and the right to own personal property.
Our country has spent 75 years of blood and treasure to suppress the spread of socialism in this world.
NOW WE HAVE A SOCIALIST IN THE WHITE HOUSE!! I have lived in several different socialist countries and listened to the openly socialist politician's bile. The obambat says the exact same words, expresses the exact same attitudes, and proposes the exact same "socialistic solutions" as they do. They openly admit they are socialists but the obambat doesn't have the honesty or courage to admit what he is. Socialism is sure a success in Greece right now isn't it? A dead dog in the white house that can take no actions would be a big step up from what we have now.
30 posted on 02/20/2012 1:31:03 PM PST by oldenuff2no (Rangers lead the way...... Delta, the original European home land security)
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To: fso301
You don't understand.

This is simply part of today's THREE MINUTES HATE !.

Don't you know Jesus hates those dastardly Mormons ! And so does the pastor and all the good brethren and sisteryn !

Yup, yup, they're real Christians alright !

31 posted on 02/20/2012 2:20:21 PM PST by jimt (Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed.)
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To: jimt
And you'll find the same group of suspects doing the cheerleading each time. Don't be surprised when they whip a 2,000 word essay on you in the space of a minute and a half, complete with pictures and graphs.

They're pre-canned so as to lose no time keeping the THREE MINUTES HATE ! going.

32 posted on 02/20/2012 2:26:05 PM PST by jimt (Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed.)
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To: jimt
Point out one or two posts...that express hate towards mormons.

Thanks-

33 posted on 02/20/2012 2:33:15 PM PST by Osage Orange (A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.)
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To: Osage Orange

In modern Amerika pointing out error=hate.


34 posted on 02/20/2012 2:48:24 PM PST by Gamecock (I am so thankful for [the] active obedience of Christ. No hope without it. JGM)
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To: Elsie

And so you would allow O to be reelected which GUARANTEES your demise?

Your short sightless is not an asset


35 posted on 02/20/2012 4:00:56 PM PST by Nifster
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To: dragonblustar

did you read my entire post??? Then you know what I think of Mormonism

None of that applies when in 2012 the presidential election is about whether our republic survives r goes completely down the rat hole.

For the record, I am no Mitt fan but the truth is I will do everything legally possible to get rid of O


36 posted on 02/20/2012 4:03:35 PM PST by Nifster
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To: oldenuff2no
A dead dog in the white house that can take no actions would be a big step up from what we have now.

Of course, you're assuming -- at least in the context of our discussion re: Romney -- that there's a solid mass of GOP & Independent voters who would...
...both forever say bye-bye to a TRUE conservative GOP & would personally as voters sear their conscience...
...by voting for someone who's...
...pushed his own mini-socialism (RomneyCare)...
...been in favor about all their life (with just a few statements stating otherwise -- and ZERO actions) of dismembering the pre-born...
...developed a track record tantamount to that of a serial liar...
...racist-by-association background is quite obvious...
...gullibility to deception is so extreme that he thinks he's a literal "god-in-embryo" on his way to governing his own world as a rival to other gods...
...liberal track record on a whole host of other issues is problematic to the core--to the degree that he has no core!!!

Hey, if we wanted to vote for such a limb-tearing, skin-discriminating liberal divinity, we'd join the Democrats! Why wear the camouflage costume and let them proselytize us all into RINO Dem-lite voters?

Bottom-line: No matter how much you may pretend otherwise, your "dead dog" and Romney both are NOT viable candidates!

Either one would get slaughtered in November.

So what if Romney garnered say -- 29% of the vote? (vs. say a third-party candidate who'd get less). Either way, they both lose! Romney's a loser...He's 1-17 in non-caucus races outside of his home turf! For every caucus he's won, he's lost more than three!

Romney has no viability! He has no traction. He's DOA.

All the possible 29% who might vote for him will get in exchange for that vote is...
...the knowledge they wasted their vote on a known loser...
...thereby forever sending a message to the RINO GOP establishment that they'll forever cave & compromise because they've been told, "they have no place to go"...
...they seared their conscience by voting for a liberal RINO pro-abortionist racist "god" -- a vote they'll need to answer to God for...
...and most directly contributed to the potential permanent unhinging and extinction of the GOP!

Nice going, RINOs, RINO voters & potential RINO voters!

See my tagline. (Under my tagline's scenario, I could see some FREEPERs becoming justifiers and apologists for Hitler if they thought it'd stave off THE anti-Christ from becoming leader of the Free World! Sorry, I don't need to add to the political corruption by converting soul as part & parcel of that corruption!)

37 posted on 02/20/2012 4:49:03 PM PST by Colofornian (Conservative DOESN'T = voting 4 a reincarnated Hitler 'cause he's "better" than THE anti-Christ)
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To: fso301; jimt
Even if Mormonism is not within the mainstream of Christianity, there is no religious test for public office and the nation has done just fine in the past with non-Christian presidents.

Ya know, fso...I once read an Lds news release that said: The framers of our constitution included a provision that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States” (Article VI). That constitutional principle forbids a religious test as a legal requirement...

This release was part of a discussion by Lds "apostle" Dallin Oaks.

I'm afraid you -- FSO -- like Mr. Oaks...misconstrues candidacy eligibility issues.

All the constitution says is that an eligible candidate cannot be kept from running on religious test grounds.

Ya know, even Mr. Oaks recognized how ludicrous some of his rhetoric was sounding and needed to offset it a bit with a qualifier: "...but it of course leaves citizens free to cast their votes on the basis of any preference they choose."

So...here's a Constitutional "primer" for you so that you don't keep exporting confusion to others:

Point 1- RELIGION: Religion IS NOT a qualification or disqualification for public office; but it's certainly one quality of voter discernment among many others...namely, voting record, present position statements & rampant inconsistency of past position statements, social issues' stances, character, viability, scandal-free past, etc. Article VI, section 3 of the Constitution is aimed at the candidate (must be of a certain age and must have resided in our country for a certain number of years) and the government so that religion does not become a disqualification to keep somebody otherwise eligible for running for public office. Article VI, section 3, is not aimed at the voter. Otherwise, voters would have to 100% disregard character, beliefs, other-dimensionly commitments, and spiritual discernment in weighing candidates.

POINT 2 - ELIGIBILITY: Newsflash!! Every person on the ballot, & even most write-in candidates, have proper "qualifications" to not be excluded from office consideration (based upon religious grounds). Of course, millions of us have the "qualifications" to be considered a potential POTUS & shouldn't be excluded outright from a ballot because of the religion we hold! Nobody has a "Religious Ineligibility" tattoo on their forehead!

POINT 3- BOTTOM LINE: You don't, FSO, really want to join Lds "apostles" in their confusion by emphasizing words similar to "qualifications" (language within the Constitution) with words like "qualities." (language that’s NOT in the Constitution)...do you?

I focus on what voters base their votes on in the "real world": Qualities

Otherwise, Article VI says absolutely...
...nothing...
....nada...
...zero...
...about how voters must weigh--or not weigh--the "qualities" of a candidate...

Nowhere does Article VI say that voters MUST 100% disregard character, beliefs, other-dimensionly commitments, and spiritual discernment in weighing candidates!

"Qualifications" have to do with what gets a man on a ballot. "Qualities" has to do with who gets elected.

(Even 94-95% of Mormons -- most voting upon the fellow personal "qualities" of a candidate like Romney -- can tell you that!)

Btw, fso, why aren't you lecturing Lds voters if anywhere from 88% to 95% of Mormons will only vote for a Mormon?

(For some reason, the "Article 6 Religious Test" lecture tour never seems to hit Utah, Southwest Wyoming or Southern Idaho)

38 posted on 02/20/2012 5:09:15 PM PST by Colofornian (Conservative DOESN'T = voting 4 a reincarnated Hitler 'cause he's "better" than THE anti-Christ)
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To: oldenuff2no; All
Excuse me. My family has been actively fighting socialism and communism since WWI. Many generations of military veterans and career military men populate our family...Our country has spent 75 years of blood and treasure to suppress the spread of socialism in this world.

And honor, high regard, & much appreciation is in order for this...but you know, we can't keep living in the previously established "order" of opposition.

For one thing, let's be up front about this & acknowledge that some (who knows what %) of our culture's opposers of socialism & communism were themselves racists -- and many more didn't necessarily practice open racism but left its practice "status quo" ... often turning their heads to look the other way as if it wasn't there.

Beyond that, the cults proliferated and/or greatly expanded in the 1960s. Abortion became legalized in '73...

IOW, simply put: Many opposers of socialism & communism haven't always learned how to multi-task & fight many different battles on multiple turfs.

What that means for our culture is that we haven't had much time -- or built-up enough of a generational family legacy like what you're describing in your family -- to expand our multi-front opposition. (For example, the pro-life movement is really less than 40 years old in this country!)

What I've noticed about those who tend to cite socialism/communism is they're even more "single-issue" than what others accuse pro-lifers of being!

Many of them (not all) are either culturally ADD (ADHD) or seem to have trouble grasping...
...there are no basic rights to protect if the pre-born can't even emerge from the womb...
...if we can't stop the overwhelming wholesale mass slaughter, what makes you think the rest of the culture is going to remain untouched? The prophet Hosea said that violence begets violence.

Also, this battle in the womb is simply an exploitation extension of what we've done in our nation's past to blacks & Native Americans...
...and...the negative consequences from the cults can be just as bad eternally (hell is forever) as our socio-political environment's potential overall impact.

We're dealing with multiple wars, fronts, trenches. May I suggest the single-issue anti-socialists learn the basic lesson provided by our exemplar Silent Generation...thereby learning how to multi-task in taking on multiple wars, fronts & trenches?

39 posted on 02/20/2012 5:39:11 PM PST by Colofornian (Conservative DOESN'T = voting 4 a reincarnated Hitler 'cause he's "better" than THE anti-Christ)
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To: Colofornian
So you want to lay down roll over and give up? Thank God there are some people of courage and of high moral fiber in this country. Some people have the balls to stand up and fight and others use a page full of words to cover cowardice.
40 posted on 02/20/2012 6:10:59 PM PST by oldenuff2no (Rangers lead the way...... Delta, the original European home land security)
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To: Nifster
And so you would allow O to be reelected which GUARANTEES your demise?

I will 'allow' anyone to use any reason to make up their minds as they wish.

WHY do you seem to have a PROBLEM with that?

41 posted on 02/20/2012 6:36:13 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: oldenuff2no
Some people have the balls to stand up and fight and others use a page full of words to cover cowardice.

While others were born without them.

Other than WORDS on FR; what do you recommend that a TRUE Ranger would do?

42 posted on 02/20/2012 6:39:15 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Nifster
Everyone on this forum agrees that another 4 years of Obama will be disastrous for America. The part that many take issue with is the notion that a Romney presidency will somehow save the republic or won't be as bad.

Mitt supporters like you have offered no compelling argument to support that theory. It's just wishful thinking on your part.

43 posted on 02/20/2012 6:51:30 PM PST by Turtlepower
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To: Elsie

My only problem is with allowing Obama to have a second term.....


44 posted on 02/20/2012 7:38:20 PM PST by Nifster
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To: oldenuff2no
So you want to lay down roll over and give up? Thank God there are some people of courage and of high moral fiber in this country.

What do you think I've been doing for these past 5 years -- in working to keep Romney out? Whose laying down? Whose slowed down toward achieving that goal? (Not me) Nobody's been nominated yet, no matter how much the MSM would like to crown its candidate!

As for cowardice...those are voters who have slippery convictions and prove they are no more "conservative" than the liberals they talk about voting for!

Those are the compromisers -- the ones who concede they'll vote for racist-abortionist-divine liberals -- all in the "name" of conversatism!

Such irony! They'll elect a socialist to beat one!

You've certainly inspired a new tagline! I think I'll keep this one for a while. Thanks!

45 posted on 02/20/2012 7:38:48 PM PST by Colofornian (An anti-FREEPER: That's a poster who says, "Let's elect one socialist to beat another!")
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To: Turtlepower

I am most definitely NOT a Mittens supporter. I am doing everything I can to make sure he is not the nominee. But I am also of the mind that I will like wise do everything I can to make sure Obama does not have another term....even if that means voting for this non-conservative Romney


46 posted on 02/20/2012 7:40:59 PM PST by Nifster
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To: Nifster
My only problem is with allowing Obama to have a second term.....

I sure wish that MY life were this simple! ;^)

47 posted on 02/21/2012 4:29:13 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Nifster

Fine, but I still say you are wasting your effort in ridding Obama by replacing him with another socialist in Romney. A Romney presidency doesn’t gain America anything.


48 posted on 02/21/2012 11:25:20 AM PST by Turtlepower
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To: Turtlepower

And allowing O a second term costs us EVERYTHING!!!!


49 posted on 02/21/2012 11:44:43 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Nifster

“And allowing Romney a term costs us EVERYTHING!!!!”

Fixed for you


50 posted on 02/21/2012 1:55:32 PM PST by Turtlepower
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