It May Look Good on Paper [Mormonism]

New York Times ^ | January 30, 2012 | Ian Williams

[greyfoxx39]

..................Some of us who have experienced the Mormon life firsthand would rather choose a messy, colorful America.

While it's easy to be seduced by a church known for its practicality, its financial acumen and its commitment to both self-betterment and worldly outreach, I wouldn't buy the underwear just yet. Everything comes with a caveat.

-SNIP-

Mormons typically create their perfect world not by embracing the future, but by fetishizing the past. The very qualities America might want — prudence, thrift, even contentment — come at a price. The Mormon way is steadfastly patriarchal; women can't hold the priesthood, and are encouraged to be as procreative as possible. Their rigid concept of "family" owes more to the early 1950s than the 20-teens.

-SNIP-

A culture that walks in such tidy lockstep has the advantage of homogeneity, and will always look good on paper. It certainly works for my many cousins, whom I love. But some of us who have experienced the Mormon life firsthand would rather choose a messy, colorful America lurching forward without so many confines — every day and twice on Sunday.

[Elsie]

To question what others believe only invites a response in kind.

Bring it!

I'm quite sure I can handle it!

[Elsie]

Can't - will NOT - disagree with you on this point.

MORMONism; however; is a hellish demonic plot straight from the Deceiver himself.

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NIV Galatians 1:6-9
6. I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
7. which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
9. As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

 

Even ANGELs from HEAVEN???

 

 

 

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19

 

 

It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound.

When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air.

One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

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NIV Galatians 1:6-9
6. I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
7. which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
9. As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

ANYBODY???

 

 

 

Like this fine looking fellow???

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2 Corinthians 11:12-15
12. And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
13. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
14. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
15. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 

[Elsie]

...and when I see Mormon families I almost uniformly see polite, well-behaved, and literate children and that says a lot for them at least in that regard.

We had a family in church a few years ago that was praised by one our long time ladies of the church with these words, "You have such well behaved children. They are a pleasure to be around!"

To which the 12 year old girl replied, "You'd be good too, if YOUR dad weighed 300 pounds!"

[Elsie]

Your paragrapher is broken...

[Elsie]

I leave open the question as to whether an adherent to any religion ACTUALLY believes what he says, but that, too, is not for me to question.

At the PERSONAL level, you are right.

However; at the CORPORATE lervel, one can DEFINITELY determine what the Organization has written is according to what the Bible states.

[annieokie]

Lets see now. Seems there is another FAITH (as some want to call these cults), that also have the ability LIE about their FAITH if need be...............thinking, thinking, thinking, oh yeah!!!

ISLAM, think that is the one. Islam/Morman close realtives? hmmmm

[fishtank]

The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator, that everything was created THROUGH Him, BY Him and FOR Him.

They deny that Jesus created even the angels out of nothing.

They do NOT teach the truth about Jesus.

You said, "Nevertheless, I am troubled by anyone questioning anyone else’s faith. It is, after all, FAITH. I certainly recognize that what I believe, I believe by faith. I cannot prove it (if I could, I would). Mormons cannot prove it. No religion can. To question what others believe only invites a response in kind."

Unfortunately, this definition of faith has no objectivity, no certainty, and no reliance on truth, it is based only on feelings.

Faith in Christ is NOT so. He is a real, historical figure. His basic existence is an established fact. His miracles were documented by His followers, and His claims to Divinity earned Him a crucifixion death. All this is verified by history (see Josephus). The problem with the lds is that they have literally stolen the Name, and the Identity of Jesus Christ, and have constructed a completely false story for their religion.

The lds demands that their organization be accepted as a true Christian group.

No. That cannot happen. Truth is truth. The only charitable thing to do is to speak the Truth to individual mormons. They are in a burning house, and they need to be rescued. Letting them stay and burn is wrong.

[annieokie]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaahhahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahha<

sorry for the mis-spells. lol

[annieokie]

oh my eyes. Would love to re read this by paragraphs, lol.

You have some good articles, repost please.

[AnTiw1]

" For what it’s worth, I have attended a United Methodist Church for the last 18 years or so, where I teach Sunday School..."

and, for the record, do you also teach them to silence people who have escaped from cults, to ascribe bigotry to refugees relating their traumatic experiences, and shut down discussions of the doctrines and historical evidence of the damage done by this so-called "church"?

do you also silence ex-Moonies? ex-Scientoligists? ex-Muslims?

frankly, as aperson raised in this cult, ordained to the priesthood, president of their teacher's quorum and preparing for my mission when i left, the gall of a sunday School teacher posing as the defender of the rights of a cult so destructive, is nauseating, but not a bit surprising...

i don't give a damn what jersey you wear, sir, you are on the opposite line of scrimmage from the victims of this cult that know it just a bit more intimately than you...and we will not be silenced.

[annieokie]

Still waiting for a reply on that "Magic Bread", whatever it is. Never heard of magic bread in any religion.

I scrolled to the bottom, nothing yet, waiting........

[AnTiw1]

for me to type the html to make it look pretty would take me all day w two thumbs and a cellphone...i’ll dig thru my history and see if i can post a link...hang on

[AnTiw1]

HERE you go...

THIS is very good too...

[annieokie]

your so good. Thanks, love your work.

[NCLaw441]

I have not “silenced” anyone, and I won’t be silenced either. There are always many ways of saying something, some persuasive, some offensive.

[NCLaw441]

To question what others believe only invites a response in kind.
Bring it!

I’m quite sure I can handle it!
*******
I have no doubt about your ability to argue, but do you not want to convince others and bring them into your faith? That is my goal.

[SZonian]

"...but I see no right or good in denying them their faith."

I don't see anyone here "denying" mormons anything. Confronting mormonism's teachings, doctrine and theology is something quite different.

As you said, faith is up to each person. However, when a religion comes out and attempts to undermine the entire premise that billions of people have built their FAITH upon, it is our duty as Christians to challenge this "religion" in kind.

Mormonism changes, perverts and otherwise discounts the divine and eternal nature of God through the use of very similar words, but different definitions.

What I, as an ex-mormon and the others challenge is their doctrine, theology and teachings.

[Turtlepower]

There are many different approaches one can take in sharing the Gospel. The Holy Spirit guides us in the correct approach, based upon the audience and circumstances.

The underlying motive is always love for the listener, but sometimes the message has to be blunt in order to get through. Jesus was very blunt on several occasions with the Pharisees when pointing out their hypocrisy. He obviously knew that was the correct approach to take with them.

Typically, when speaking to adherants of cults, like Mormons, an effective method is to call into question the validity of their teachers and to reveal the darker side of their beliefs.

[AnTiw1]

" I have not “silenced” anyone, and I won’t be silenced either. There are always many ways of saying something, some persuasive, some offensive. "

you entered a thread where this cult was the topic and where people who had suffered under the hands of, and lost friends and family while fleeing this cult were holding the conversation, and provided testimonies and documents to back their experience and assertions.

you, sir, chose to be apologist for the rights of the abusers over the free speech of their victims...

and You Own That.

if you can disprove one word, by all means, join the debate...but to deride those who have experienced this because it "offends you" to hear them speak, says very little about us and acres about you

you still haven't pointed out one word that was out of line, or one assertion that was untrue...you just find our speech offensive

well, be offended...and be prepared to be offended a little more

[AnTiw1]

President Brigham Young:

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African Race? If the White man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” (Journal of Discourses 10:110)
President Joseph Fielding Smith:

“There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less.” (Doctrines of Salvation, p. 61)
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie:

“Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them... Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned…” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 343)
Apostle Mark E. Petersen:

“God has commanded Israel not to intermarry. To go against this commandment of God would be in sin. Those who willfully sin with their eyes open to this wrong will not be surprised to find that they will be separated from the presence of God in the world to come. This is spiritual death…
“The reason that one would lose his blessings by marrying a Negro is due to the restriction placed upon them. “No person having the least particle of Negro blood can hold the Priesthood” (Brigham Young). It does not matter if they are one-sixth Negro or one-hundred and sixth, the curse of no Priesthood is the same. If an individual who is entitled to the Priesthood marries a Negro, the Lord has decreed that only spirits who are not eligible for the Priesthood will come to that marriage as children. To intermarry with a Negro is to forfeit a “Nation of Priesthood holders…

“The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent, and then, of course, they have been persuaded by some of the arguments that have been put forth…We who teach in the Church certainly must have our feet on the ground and not to be led astray by the philosophies of men on this subject…

“I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn’t just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn’t that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage. That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, ‘First we pity, then endure, then embrace’…

“Now let’s talk about segregation again for a few moments. Was segregation a wrong principle? When the Lord chose the nations to which the spirits were to come, determining that some would be Japanese and some would be Chinese and some Negroes and some Americans, He engaged in an act of segregation…

“When he told Enoch not preach the gospel to the descendants of Cain who were black, the Lord engaged in segregation. When He cursed the descendants of Cain as to the Priesthood, He engaged in segregation…

“Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was it God? And when He placed them there, He segregated them…

“The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the Negro we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that he placed a dark skin upon them as a curse — as a punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them under threat of extension of the curse. And He certainly segregated the descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there…

“Now we are generous with the Negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. But let them enjoy these things among themselves. I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation? It reminds me of the scripture on marriage, ‘what God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.’ Only here we have the reverse of the thing - what God hath separated, let not man bring together again.

“Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood…This Negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in their lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa—if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory.” (Apostle Mark E. Peterson, Race Problems - As They Affect The Church, Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College Level, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954)

20truths.info/mormon/prejudice.html